I'd have put this in the other (non interrogative) post, but it was getting long and I would have gotten buried. But here's my question...Isn't Greyhawk pretty much the core setting?
I mean I bought Temple of Elemental Evil, and amonst the pregen characters available are all the signature characters from the Core book--in a game set in Greyhawk. The gods of the PHB are all the gods of Greyhawk.
I've tried ever since 3.0 came out to figure it out. Is it just like the developers used Greyhawk and then made a big messy mudball out of everything else and just piled it on top? Planescape is now Greyhawk (Last two Planes books pretty much guaranteed that). Spelljammer is now Greyhawk (Neogi mindspiders are apparently back, according to the Abberations book).
I have to imagine Greyhawk IS the "standard" setting or else something REALLY goofy is going on...
WAIT! I get it. Greyhawk is the Doppel Cosmology of the Standard D&D Setting! (I'm kidding, but as I mull it over it would explain alot...nah!)
Well, indeed you are correct (as far as I know, anyway). Every bit of 'fluff,' 'flavor,' 'story,' or whatever you want to call it, in the Player's Handbook, IS straight out of Greyhawk. And the early 3.0 adventures were set in Greyhawk areas. I usually assume that any D&D material that comes out from WotC that isn't set in an established campaign setting is geared toward Greyhawk.
The problem is, there's no currently published books that describe Greyhawk itself. I only recently got into Greyhawk, and it's difficult for me to piece together - all the information I want is in books that are out of print. It would be really cool if WotC published a Greyhawk Campaign Setting book that included absolutely NO 'crunch.' 300+ pages of maps and setting information? I would easily pay $40, maybe even $50 or $60 for that sort of thing. Instead of putting in new PrCs, adventures, magic items, special materials, and what have you, there could be a few pages of references to all the other books that have them (including Dungeon & Dragon magazines).
What I want to know is, what is the Flanaess (s.p.) all about? How do you spell stuff? What are the Circle of Eight (or is it the Citadel of Eight?) up to? Does Iuz control half the known world and if he doesn't why not? Who's the most famous grain merchant in the Great Kingdom? Why is there a crazy little potion maker living in the middle of the Cold Marches? What the heck was the Rain of Colorless Fire? Is Ivid dead? What about Ivid the IV, or the V, or the LXIV-1/2? How did the Romans deal with fractions?
Okay, maybe that last one doesn't really have to do with Greyhawk, but I think this gets my points across.
Although Greyhawk was the core world when 3.0 was introduced it has fallen off since that time. There has been the introduction of Eberron as well as the request of Wotc not to have Paizo include world specific adventures. In the Spell Compendium gods are not listed in the domain descriptions and they have done away with the named spells from Greyhawk and FR. Wotc is making a play to sell to the player instead of DMs, this is because there are more players and thus that can result in more sales.
LGG did an excellent job of giving the rough outline of Greyhawk. Another book might not be needed. I have heard a suggestion on the Canonfire board to detail another city such as Rel Astra. Perhaps this could be an ongoing Dungeon article, people and places in Rel Astra? Does anyone agree?
Well, indeed you are correct (as far as I know, anyway). Every bit of 'fluff,' 'flavor,' 'story,' or whatever you want to call it, in the Player's Handbook, IS straight out of Greyhawk. And the early 3.0 adventures were set in Greyhawk areas. I usually assume that any D&D material that comes out from WotC that isn't set in an established campaign setting is geared toward Greyhawk.
The problem is, there's no currently published books that describe Greyhawk itself. I only recently got into Greyhawk, and it's difficult for me to piece together - all the information I want is in books that are out of print. It would be really cool if WotC published a Greyhawk Campaign Setting book that included absolutely NO 'crunch.' 300+ pages of maps and setting information? I would easily pay $40, maybe even $50 or $60 for that sort of thing. Instead of putting in new PrCs, adventures, magic items, special materials, and what have you, there could be a few pages of references to all the other books that have them (including Dungeon & Dragon magazines).
What I want to know is, what is the Flanaess (s.p.) all about? How do you spell stuff? What are the Circle of Eight (or is it the Citadel of Eight?) up to? Does Iuz control half the known world and if he doesn't why not? Who's the most famous grain merchant in the Great Kingdom? Why is there a crazy little potion maker living in the middle of the Cold Marches? What the heck was the Rain of Colorless Fire? Is Ivid dead? What about Ivid the IV, or the V, or the LXIV-1/2? How did the Romans deal with fractions?
Okay, maybe that last one doesn't really have to do with Greyhawk, but I think this gets my points across.
I would be happy to help you out and answer any Greyhawk questions I can answer.
The Citadel of Eight is no longer working together. They were comprised of different classes who had differing ideas how to accomplish their goals. Many still work with/for Mordenkainen. Yrag is a lord of Greyhawk and still helps out the city visiting from time to time.(The Adventure Begins p.114) Serten died at the Battle of Emridy Meadows in 569CY. Riggby left for Verbobonc. Otis left over philosophical differences. Tenser and Bigby helped form the Circle of Eight. The Circle of Eight is dedicated to monitoring the Flanaess. That is why they are from many different locales throughout the world. By monitoring different areas they cover a much larger area and come together should a great threat arise. Each mage has an information network of their own, to further discover threats.
Iuz is held in check by powerful individuals such as the Circle of Eight, quasidieties, hero-dieties and other demigods. Also St. Cuthbert has been given permission to intervene if Iuz attempts to overtly affect the world. So if the Black One teleports into Chendl to assassinate Belvor St Cuthbert will be waiting to make him the Black and Blue One. Also Iuz might be a bit shy of facing off against Zagyg since the mage once inprisoned him as well as eight other demigods. You would have to say Zagyg has the edge- Iuz has a ultra powerful mage for a mother and demon prince allies he cannot trust. Zagyg works for the Greater God of Magic, Boccob. "Master can I borrow your disk of a moment?", bye bye bad guys. Thus the Black One must work through his Boneheart network(Iuz the Evil).
The Rain of Colorless Fire was a destructive magical attack by Baklunish archmages and elemental priests using the artifact, Tovag Baragu. There is speculation a god was also involved. The Rain was in response to the Invoked Devastation by the Suel mages of Power. The Rain destroyed the Suel empire reducing the landscape to the Sea of Dust.
The fate of Ivid is not known. He did have children within the palace and a few have fled before Rauxes was caught in a planar vortex. Without the support and magics from Rauxes none of the children have close to the ability needed to subplant Grenell in the North Kingdom or Xavener in Ahlissa.
I hope this helps.
Well for one, I'm glad the names of spells are getting the names of archmages from Oerth yanked from them--not anything against Greyhawk, but I've always felt it hurts the setting when someone in Faerun uses Mordenkainen's Disjunction or Bigby's Crushing Hand when the actual guys don't exist in that setting.
As for a primer on 3.0 Greyhawk, you're in luck Thanis! I found a booklet cheap called The Dungeons and Dragons Gazateer with the whole map of the Flanaess, history, and whatnot. Apparently Iuz has been held in check by Canon Hazen who used a powerful artifact called the Crook of Rao to banish most of the evil outsiders that formed the backbone of Iuz's power. Now he'd largely a defensive force with an oppressed kingdom--a threat to his neighbors but largely held in check. You can get it for a penny at Amazon. There's also a larger Living Greyhawk Gazateer, but flipping through it I was not terribly impressed. It's a homely book with bad art and uninspired content (from what I could gather skimming it). It's out there though. Granted I think Greyhawk could really do with a book of the lavish quality of the Faerun or Dragonlance products. It's kind of a shame.
For me I'm just glad to hear that the 3.x world is actually supposed to be Greyhawk as opposed to all sorts of other stuff I'd been hearing.
Now where it gets weird is when you read in the Manual of the Planes that the Spelljammer is alive and well floating around in the Elemental Plane of Water. Crazy. Yeah nobody knows its called the spelljammer, but there it is.
I've been doing a ton of research on Greyhawk since AoW came out, and it's actually kind of fun--but then I'm a geeky historian and I enjoy digging. I'd say if you're interested in Greyhawk the (relatively) recent Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (2000) is indispensible. It's got a lot of errors and inconsistencies, but it's also got all the basics.
After that I'd recommend you download from this site or another the pdf's of Greyhawk the Adventure Begins and the Greyhawk Wars--which is a board game but also contains an in-depth recap of the CY 583-84 wars, which kind of set the scene for contemporary Greyhawk. (At $4 they're a steal). There are a number of other worthwhile things to download as well--I think a lot of Greyhawk history is actually contained in the old published TSR modules, especially the T, A, and GDQ-series. If you read through the summaries on the Paizo pdf's you can usually tell where an adventure is located and thus what parts of the campaign world are developed in it.
Some of the Living Greyhawk regional websites have quite a bit of juicy tidbits too--you can link to these from a hook on the WotC website.
So, there isn't a one-shop sourcebook for Greyhawk like for FR, Eberron or Dragonlance, but there's plenty out there. And the lack of a standardized "canon" version of GH also makes it more flexible--you can put a town or a major NPC just about anywhere you want without offending somebody who's read all of the Drizzt books and owns more FR sourcebooks than you.
For a great example of creative adaptation of Dungeon material to GH, check out Farewell 2 Kings's campaign journal on this site (thread entitled F2K DM's Greyhawk CY 576, IIRC).
And one other thing, this site is crawling with GH fans, so if you have a question, or need to find a good source for a given aspect of GH, just start a thread and you're sure to get answers.
Director of Narrative
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The Rain of Colorless Fire was a destructive magical attack by Baklunish archmages and elemental priests using the artifact, Tovag Baragu. There is speculation a god was also involved. The Rain was in response to the Invoked Devastation by the Suel mages of Power. The Rain destroyed the Suel empire reducing the landscape to the Sea of Dust.
Don't take this as nit-picky, but I believe that Tovag Baragu was a religious site where the Rain of Colorless Fire was invoked using the Binders. (and some sources include the Ashen Staff)
But I could be completely wrong as not much has been written about the Twin Cataclysms so to allow DMs to flesh it out as they see fit. Which is much of the beauty of Greyhawk. As someone else said earlier, there's always a player that knows more 'fluff' about Faerun that you'd like. Greyhawk keeps you from having to say, "Well in MY [insert campaign world here] that's different."
And to the original poster......ask away.
I do use the Greyhawk setting to some extent. I have the D&D gazeteer and work with that as a basis for my own world. The basic history in that book is used in my world but I usually don't like to have to fit my own adventures into masses of history and info written for a campaign setting.
Having said that, the Forgotten Realms is a great setting and I often steal from it and add bits to my game (some of the NPC's are really interesting).
In the future I may end up using the Forgotten Realms instead since I seem to be having less time to develope my own world these days.
Don't take this as nit-picky, but I believe that Tovag Baragu was a religious site where the Rain of Colorless Fire was invoked using the Binders. (and some sources include the Ashen Staff)
But I could be completely wrong as not much has been written about the Twin Cataclysms so to allow DMs to flesh it out as they see fit. Which is much of the beauty of Greyhawk. As someone else said earlier, there's always a player that knows more 'fluff' about Faerun that you'd like. Greyhawk keeps you from having to say, "Well in MY [insert campaign world here] that's different."
Tovag Baragu is listed as an artifact/relic in Dragon #294 or #299. The most powerful binder was taken by the Suel Prince escaping his father. The Ashen Staff was created by Maladin on his website. Although Maladin is an excellent writer this is not official.
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Don't take this as nit-picky, but I believe that Tovag Baragu was a religious site where the Rain of Colorless Fire was invoked using the Binders.
Actually, the earliest canon source about that location can be found in the old (2e) GH Adventures hardcover. It makes it clear that while considered "holy" by some, it's true age/origin/purpose is uncertain (although hints are given).
You know where any good descriptions of the binders might be? You seem to be quite a font of info.
Tovag Baragu is listed as an artifact/relic in Dragon #294 or #299. The most powerful binder was taken by the Suel Prince escaping his father.
The articles from Dragon listed 4 elemental items for controling the evil elemental princes. (The article was done by Erik Mona and Allan Grohe) I am not sure if they are suppose to replace the binders or not.