Chief Technical Officer
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We've just announced a significant change to the format of the upcoming GameMastery Item Pack 2.
We initially solicited the product as a fixed 54-card deck; it will now be sold as 11-card boster packs and 12-pack booster displays. This format will allow gamers to easily acquire multiple copies of common items while also providing interesting rare items in a more limited ratio.
Check out the revised product listing for more details.
(Item Pack 1 has not changed format.)
I'm not entrely sure about this - I love the idea, and will be picking up pack one as soon as I can find a FLGS that stocks it, but, in a similar way to ye olde DDM, random booster packs of stuff are just not terribly convenient for roleplaying; I like the idea that it'll be easier to acquire multiples of small stuff, but I just see myself buying packs and packs to get a particular item I want to give out next session - good for paizo's bank account, but bad for me.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The nature of these things will be such that buying 5 or 6 packs ought to give you a nice mix of different treasure to dole out to your friends. You might start by only using the cards for more important items, but in time I think you'll want to use them for just about everything. They are very, very cool.
Plus, the first set is available as a non-random 54-card set, so for ten bucks you can build up at least one card for most of the commonly encountered items in the game (and several potions, scrolls, weapons, and wands).
--Erik
The nature of these things will be such that buying 5 or 6 packs ought to give you a nice mix of different treasure to dole out to your friends. You might start by only using the cards for more important items, but in time I think you'll want to use them for just about everything. They are very, very cool.
Plus, the first set is available as a non-random 54-card set, so for ten bucks you can build up at least one card for most of the commonly encountered items in the game (and several potions, scrolls, weapons, and wands).
--Erik
This looks interesting. Is it SRD only or official D&D?
PS - The boosters are cheap enough that I wouldn't mind bying multiple packs. I think this will work well enough. Will there be an option to purchase individual cards? (Probably, not very practical, but it would be nice.) ;)
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The cards are neither SRD nor official D&D. They don't include statistics for the item in question, leaving that to the DM.
Basically, you get a card with a cool illo of boots, for example. The back of the card has a blank writable surface and space for the GM to write a code. The player writes whatever he wants on the back of the card--charges, the results of a spell like identify, etc. You're not chasing specific magic items, but magic item types. What the cards represent is entirely up to the GM. The cards therefore work for a large variety of game systems.
In addition to making treasure collection more fun, Item Cards also help the GM track the equipment in the hands of his PCs. For example, how many times has this happened to you:
GM: The pack of ravenous ghouls advances, their long, barbed tongues tasting the air in frantic anticipation of the meal to come.
PLAYER: I blast 'em with my wand!
GM: Uh, which wand, again?
PLAYER: It just says "wand" on my sheet.
GM: Hmmm. Do you remember where you got the wand?
PLAYER: Geez. I don't know. Maybe a year ago? I think maybe in that one adventure with the dragon....
The individual codes help DMs avoid this sort of game-grinding confusion, and since they look so cool, they add a lot of excitement to the game itself.
--Erik
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Senior Software Developer
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We updated the product image for the Item Pack 1 so you can see what the box looks like.
I hear we may also have some sample card images coming sometime soon as well.
We updated the product image for the Item Pack 1 so you can see what the box looks like.
I hear we may also have some sample card images coming sometime soon as well.
It looks great....I'm just not sure about the line that talks about the players managing their booty ;)
Paizotronics-
The Item Packs are a *great* idea. I love the customability idea, with nifty art, and that 'tactile' sensation of getting a card- that satisfies the player as much as the character IMO.
I have already offered to buy a pack or two for our DM, as long as he agrees to hand them out in his game. :)
EDIT: I forgot to ask: are the Packs intended for certain game types, or environments, or whatever? It is kind of hard to see the theme (if any) from just the exterior boxes. If possible, it would be *fantastic* to have a card or two using the item art from the Age of Worms. It would just be *that much cooler* for our AoW game to have the specific item artwork!
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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While future sets will follow some general themes (such as "dragon's horde" or "the elements"), the first couple of sets are going to be very general in nature, and will cover most of the common types of items that are likely to show up in your standard campaign.
We don't plan to tie the cards into Age of Worms, because the GameMastery line is not an official Dungeons & Dragons product. Bringing in AoW means making it part of our licensing agreement with Wizards, which is something we're not currently planning.
--Erik
We don't plan to tie the cards into Age of Worms, because the GameMastery line is not an official Dungeons & Dragons product. Bringing in AoW means making it part of our licensing agreement with Wizards, which is something we're not currently planning.
Gotcha! That makes sense. Thanks for the reply, Erik!
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Chief Technical Officer
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it will now be sold as 11-card boster packs and 12-pack booster displays. This format will allow gamers to easily acquire multiple copies of common items while also providing interesting rare items in a more limited ratio.
I've realized I was a little unclear here. The 110 cards are equally common, but there are more common items in the set (there are several different potions, for example) than there are uncommon items (like full sets of plate mail).
Also, one of the 11 cards in each pack will be a foil card, which makes a great stand-in for a magic item.
-Vic.
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Director of Games
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Just to be super clear on this one, all of the cards in the 110 card set have an equal commonality. Each booster has 10 normal cards and 1 foil card. Each of the normal cards has a foil card dupilcate, for use when you want to give out that really special item.
Personally.. I can't wait to get my hands on these.. I may be a bit biased, but it is true.
Jason Bulmahn
Project Coordinator
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We've just announced a significant change to the format of the upcoming GameMastery Item Pack 2.
We initially solicited the product as a fixed 54-card deck; it will now be sold as 11-card boster packs and 12-pack booster displays. This format will allow gamers to easily acquire multiple copies of common items while also providing interesting rare items in a more limited ratio.
Check out the revised product listing for more details.
(Item Pack 1 has not changed format.)
Let me explain why I am not happy about this, by using some math.
Let’s start with Item pack 1: 54 cards for 9.95 and you get all the cards, and if I want more of them I can buy it again and still get all the cards.
Now Item Pack 2: you decided to go for random with equally common cards of 110 cards 1 pack of 10 cards cost 3.49. If I wanted the whole set to be safe I would have to order 20 packs and if I am lucky I will get all 110 cards with a bunch of extra I will not need for a total of 69.80. That is a lot of money compared to the first pack (108 cards, 2 sets for 19.90)for a product that frankly is not worth that amount, Basically a Picture on a card with no rules on them what so ever, but ooh I will have 20 foil cards.
This is the same reason I hate WotC Minis, They are great minis but cost way to much for the product.
Paizo I love your products, especially Dungeon & Dragon and stuff related to them but your gamemaster series I am not a fan of, though the map series may have merit
Of course that is just my opinion and I am sure others will disagree and they are free to.
Let me explain why I am not happy about this, by using some math.
Let’s start with Item pack 1: 54 cards for 9.95 and you get all the cards, and if I want more of them I can buy it again and still get all the cards.
Now Item Pack 2: you decided to go for random with equally common cards of 110 cards 1 pack of 10 cards cost 3.49. If I wanted the whole set to be safe I would have to order 20 packs and if I am lucky I will get all 110 cards with a bunch of extra I will not need for a total of 69.80. That is a lot of money compared to the first pack (108 cards, 2 sets for 19.90)for a product that frankly is not worth that amount, Basically a Picture on a card with no rules on them what so ever, but ooh I will have 20 foil cards.
This is the same reason I hate WotC Minis, They are great minis but cost way to much for the product.
Paizo I love your products, especially Dungeon & Dragon and stuff related to them but your gamemaster series I am not a fan of, though the map series may have merit
Of course that is just my opinion and I am sure others will disagree and they are free to.
We felt the lower price-point on the 11-card packs meant that more people could pick up the packs without having to drop $10, so they could try it out, and see if they liked them.
You don't need all the cards to use the Item Packs. In fact, it is so utilitarian that you can pick up one pack, or twenty packs, and get use out of it. In the Hero's Hoard set, there are over 15 different potion cards alone (each with their own unique illustration). We created multiple different versions of items that are commonly found (potions, swords, scrolls, etc.) and have single instances of items that are rarely found (like the Spiked Chain). Buying multiple packs gives you more of the commonly found items, which seemed the best way to distribute the cards. You'll never have cards you don't need, because we're not telling you it's a +1 Wooden Shield. It can be any kind of wooden shield. If you give out two wooden shields, you just jot your tracking code and/or notes on the back of them, and viola! you have two unique magic items.
Also, we opted to add in the foil cards so that the DM (or player) can use those to represent very powerful or special magic items.
We're not expecting people to use these cards like a trading card game set. We're not making the cool stuff harder to find, and you don't need four of some impossible to find card in order to play. Each item is customizable to whatever you want it to be.
Further sets will expand the selection of items, so that we have even more sets of armor, more weapons, more strange wonderous items, and of course, more of the staples like potions and scrolls. Every single card illustration will be unique, so the more sets we release, the more unique choices you have.
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We felt the lower price-point on the 11-card packs meant that more people could pick up the packs without having to drop $10, so they could try it out, and see if they liked them.
You don't need all the cards to use the Item Packs. In fact, it is so utilitarian that you can pick up one pack, or twenty packs, and get use out of it. In the Hero's Hoard set, there are over 15 different potion cards alone (each with their own unique illustration). We created multiple different versions of items that are commonly found (potions, swords, scrolls, etc.) and have single instances of items that are rarely found (like the Spiked Chain). Buying multiple packs gives you more of the commonly found items, which seemed the best way to distribute the cards. You'll never have cards you don't need, because we're not telling you it's a +1 Wooden Shield. It can be any kind of wooden shield. If you give...
Yes but Say I wanted every card, I would have to spend alot of money to get every card and that is where my problem is. Why can you not offer a full set free of the foil cards like Basebeall cards for example, they sell random card packs and most now have special incerts in them but you also have the option to buy the whole set with out the inserts at a resonable price as long as you get them before collectors push up the price. Ofcourse baseball cards or a more of an investment thing than this is so I would expect a resonable price to be a lot lower for these then they are for baseball cards.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Why can you not offer a full set free of the foil cards like Basebeall cards for example, they sell random card packs and most now have special incerts in them but you also have the option to buy the whole set with out the inserts at a resonable price as long as you get them before collectors push up the price.
In fact, as of a few years ago Topps was the only company still selling complete sets of baseball cards to consumers, and they were doing so only because it was a legacy they had been doing since 1954. It looks like they are still doing so (albeit only of the "main" set), but they are virtually alone in the marketplace.
--Erik
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The easy solution for you is to simply not buy the product, then.--Erik
The product in itself is an interesting product and it was something I was very interested in getting but the decision on how to distribute it is what has upset me, and the only reason I am so upset is it is a product I was looking forward to. By the way these posts are example on why I love this company so much and this will not change my opinion on what a great company Paizo is, your quick response to people concerns even if you can't help them is a great thing, keep it up!
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In fact, as of a few years ago Topps was the only company still selling complete sets of baseball cards to consumers, and they were doing so only because it was a legacy they had been doing since 1954. It looks like they are still doing so (albeit only of the "main" set), but they are virtually alone in the marketplace.
--Erik
I will admit it was a memory I used from when I was younger and not something I looked into for current info, but it is good to know that Topps is still offering that option for their main set. I still believe it would be a good option for your product since they are not a collectable item. An example that you could do is at first release them in random packs and after you release the third set and no longer releasing the second set you can offer it as a complete set with out the foil cards, of course not being a business man I do not know the feasibility of that.
-Dragnmoon
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Director of Games
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I will admit it was a memory I used from when I was younger and not something I looked into for current info, but it is good to know that Topps is still offering that option for their main set. I still believe it would be a good option for your product since they are not a collectable item.-Dragnmoon
Well, I am pretty sure that you will be pleased with the later sets once you get a chance to see how they work. We are working hard to balance the mix in boosters to give you a lot of the cards that DMs need, in just about the right proportions. There are a good number of potions, scrolls, and other disposable items spread throughout the set so that each booster you pick up will be of value. Without this option, you would need to buy a new deck (quite a bit more than a booster) every time you ran out of potions, scrolls, or other more common items. I think you will find that the boosters, along with a starter will cover all your bases to get you rolling and that the random issue is really not much of an issue at all.
I for one, hope that you will give them a shot.
Jason Bulmahn
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Well, I am pretty sure that you will be pleased with the later sets once you get a chance to see how they work. We are working hard to balance the mix in boosters to give you a lot of the cards that DMs need, in just about the right proportions. There are a good number of potions, scrolls, and other disposable items spread throughout the set so that each booster you pick up will be of value. Without this option, you would need to buy a new deck (quite a bit more than a booster) every time you ran out of potions, scrolls, or other more common items. I think you will find that the boosters, along with a starter will cover all your bases to get you rolling and that the random issue is really not much of an issue at all.
I for one, hope that you will give them a shot.
Jason Bulmahn
Once again thank you for addressing my concerns so quickly even if you can't help me, especially knowing what time it must be there right now, why are you up?:-). I still think it is a good idea for a product and I can't promise I will buy them but I can promise I will think about it. I am overseas currently and everything I buy I have to buy online so it makes my decisions more difficult since I can't always see what I am getting before I order them.
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This makes no sense to me. This is a product to help DMs pass out magic items to his players and to keep better records of what the players have. Thats great, and was impressed. Then I start to read into it more. Boosters? Rares? What, is this a collectable card game now...No. But, to get some of the cards I need, I have to buy x number of packs to get it. Miniatures, OK I can deal with that. There are so many uses for them than D&D, such as skirmish etc. This is just a tool to help a DM. Sorry, not going down this street again...
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Director of Games
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It should be noted, there are no rares in this set. Each card has an equal chance of being in any given booster. This gives you the flexibility to only pick up the rough number of cards you need for a session, instead of buying an entire deck every time you run out of a card type you happen to use a lot of, like potions for example. While you might have trouble picking up the specific item you need, the base deck has a number of the common items, and those from the boosters can be used to expand that base. Instead of chasing all the cards, I plan on letting them help me decide what the treasure might be.
You may not agree, but I hope you give the product a try.
Jason Bulmahn
Randomized ? No thanks, then... I didn't give into Magic and D&D minis exactly for the same reason. If I need 20 goblins, I buy 20 goblins. Not 200 minis I don't give a damn about.
Why don't you make starter sets with 54 cards as planned and thematical boosters instead ? (Armor & shield, weapons, potions & scrolls, mundane objects, wands etc.)
Wish you good luck with this product anyway. RPG industry is not healthy enough to wish ill fate to anyone . Simply my rpg budget is limited and I have to rationalize it. Randomization doesn't fit with rationalization.
Bran.
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Chief Technical Officer
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The card list has been added to Item Pack 2. (The card list for Item Pack 1 was added a few days ago.)
-Vic.
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Ok, this is exciting! I started a project like this for my return to (A)D&D back just before 3.0 came out, using business cards and Print Master. Finding good appropriate-looking and -sized art was a royal PAIN!! I gave up on the project for quite a while. Well, now that the first gaming group broke up and a new one seems to be coalesing, I was dusting off the idea for another go at it.
NOW I DON'T HAVE TO!!!
Yeah, I'm gonna be in for this one, probably in a big way. I game with some young children, so certain concepts (like, say, erasing or marking off a potion you just drank) need something...tangible. We have minis for reinforcing perspective and now we'll have something tangible for reinforcing loot-control.
This approach might also be the way to handle spells and spell-casting...
I have an order of the first set and think that this will be a great product. All to often has an item gone missing or forgoten on a sheet and this should be a way to add visuals and tangibility to the inv.. Now if only spell cards came out again life would be easy.
Cheers,
Supaidaa
I would prefer to buy what I need. If I need potions, scrolls or whatever I would prefer to purchase boosters with those pictures in it.
I can resonate with the suggestion of letting the pictures in a booster help shape the treasure/items given to the players. But not everytime.
I love the overall idea. I like adding a visiual quality to the game. I would not like to duplicate the use of pictures/cards over time as it seems to loose something. [Example: using the same picture to represent two different potions, swords, daggers, etc.] I recognize this is probably unavoidable but I still don't like it.
Having a complete sets in one box like the orginal pack is more appealing to me as a consumer instead of the boosters construct.
With the Hoard pack alone I can see I am going to have many duplicate potions pictures until I get 1 copy of all 110 pictures available.
I have ordered Pack 1 today to try it out. I am undecided about boosters though. To be honest I don't like the thought of having many copies of some cards and only a few of others to get all 110.
I want all the unique pictures I can get from the various sets but to endure the collecting of multiple copies of some cards really seems unecessary.
Just sell me all 110 once. Raise the price to $25 double the cost of Pack 1 which has 54 cards.
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Chief Technical Officer
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To be honest I don't like the thought of having many copies of some cards and only a few of others to get all 110.
No card is rarer than any other. If you feel motivated to buy enough packs to get all of the cards, you'll get an approximately equal number of each card.
Many of your questions have been answered in this thread. Please check it out—I think you'll find it enlightening.
-Vic.
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I just got my Item pack, ordered from Paizo, in the mail the other day. Very nice, very nice indeed. A new FLGS just opened a couple of blocks from my office and I've told them about these cards and they said they'd order the booster packs when they came out.
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Well I've ordered my item pack, and am very interested to see how I can fit this into my game. I do have some logistical worries though. My players aren't the most organized. They manage to bring their sheets to the game, but I don't know about them keeping track of a bunch of cards. Any suggestions? Should I buy them card keepers and 3 ring binders?
And what about card reuse? If I write 'potion of fly' on a card and hand it to a player, that card would be a fly potion forever. Can a write on these things in pencil? (Sounds silly but many cards are very glossy and don't take any writing well).
Well I've ordered my item pack, and am very interested to see how I can fit this into my game. I do have some logistical worries though. My players aren't the most organized. They manage to bring their sheets to the game, but I don't know about them keeping track of a bunch of cards. Any suggestions? Should I buy them card keepers and 3 ring binders?
And what about card reuse? If I write 'potion of fly' on a card and hand it to a player, that card would be a fly potion forever. Can a write on these things in pencil? (Sounds silly but many cards are very glossy and don't take any writing well).
The cards do indeed take to pencil quite well (although like any coated paper, having a good eraser is important, a bad eraser will just smear the pencil, as it would on any other surface).
We see people using these in a card binder page (or pages) that they keep with their character sheet.
I guess if you want to be a really mean DM, you could have them place their cards into a card box, and time them for how long it actually takes to find that potion of fly card...
My policy is going to be that "this is your magic item, if you lose it, you've lost it." My players are all grown ups, if it's important to them, they'll figure out a way to hold on to it.
Well, ain't you the lucky one? "I'm going to...lunch! Yeah, lunch, that's it!"
Yeah, they went from an e-bay miniatures seller to opening a game store, although they're still on e-bay of course...I had no clue they were even there until I won a bid for a miniature from them and realized they were located about 1/2 mile from my office. I would like to support them as much as possible, so I'll probably ask them to order stuff for me such as the item card boosters.
The only other game stores in my area are quite a ways away...the best one is 50 miles away but I still drive up there every once in a while because they happen to be in the same town as the only homebrew supply store in my region....you can relate to that, Lilith, huh?
The only other game stores in my area are quite a ways away...the best one is 50 miles away but I still drive up there every once in a while because they happen to be in the same town as the only homebrew supply store in my region....you can relate to that, Lilith, huh?
Homebrew stores are mightily important. It's even better when said homebrew store will serve their beer and nachos when you stop in. And a long line of "Try this one! Oh, wait I've got a dry mead - what do you think?" Lots of fun!
Sadly no...after the last local homebrew store folded the only place left is 50 miles up the road. Coyote Homebrewing and Pool Supplies.....that says it all. They're good people though and worth the trip.
I've never seen the cards. I was moderately interested in them, because the idea sounded good. Now I find that they will be sold in randomized boosters. I won't buy randomized boosters. It really is that simple.
Why not offer complete sets and the booster packs? Get the best of both worlds.
Will there be single cards available from Paizo in the future once some packs have been opened, or are we going to have to set up a "Want to Trade" forum.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Why not offer complete sets and the booster packs? Get the best of both worlds.
Will there be single cards available from Paizo in the future once some packs have been opened, or are we going to have to set up a "Want to Trade" forum.
We'll be selling non-random cards here on paizo.com, though they likely won't be singles, but will instead be in small preset groups of cards (all potions, all swords, etc.).
-Vic.
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Oh well that's even better I think that is what a lot of these guys have been wanting. Just to have a way to stock up on the cards they need but not having to buy a bunch of cards they dont need.
OK I was going to order the 54 card box....if they are still available I probably still will. May even get two. As for the booster pack thing. Nah. If I'm looking for one item I don't want to buy 20 packs of random cards to have a good chance at getting it. I totally avoid random colletable things, like Magic cards and D&D minis. I want know exactly what I am buying.
Unfortunately I think this is a bad move for you guys, but thats why I am not in marketing and sales.
Why not offer complete sets and the booster packs? Get the best of both worlds.
Will there be single cards available from Paizo in the future once some packs have been opened, or are we going to have to set up a "Want to Trade" forum.
We'll be selling non-random cards here on paizo.com, though they likely won't be singles, but will instead be in small preset groups of cards (all potions, all swords, etc.).
-Vic.
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I like that....
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Chief Technical Officer
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Those of you who are reacting negatively to the booster packs should consider perusing this thread. After quite a bit of further explanation there, we seem to have won most people over. Honest—once you understand why we're doing it this way, you'll see why it might benefit you.
But if you're only willing to read one post from that thread, make it this one, from Art Director Sean Glenn:
It seems to me that there's a lot of confusion about how we're expecting the item cards to be used, so I wanted to chime in here (since I did the graphic design for the set).
The box of cards is going to have 54 cards, that pretty covers all the normal items a DM might give out during a session. Swords, potions, armor, scrolls, rings, amulets, and a couple oddball items. Every item is generic though. It's not a Potion of Cure Light Wounds, it's a potion. It's 100% useful no matter what potion the DM is handing out.
However, a lot of us are visual people, and we like variety, so that's the reason for the booster packs. Instead of the same set of 54 cards from the first box, we've expanded it out to 110 cards, again, all generic, so you can EXPAND the variety of the items you hand out. There are 18 potions in the boosters set, each with it's own illustration. Variety. Spice of life. Etcetera.
You don't need a whole set of these cards, ever. There's nothing that requires that. The price point on a 110 card box would have been at the point where people would probably just say no to it, but a cheap pack of 11 cards is a pretty easy pick-up at the counter when you're tired of just buying more dice. And that's what we were aiming at, something cheap that adds a little fun to your game.
Jason posted the average breakdown of items in a pack, so you can see that every time you buy a pack, you'll have useful stuff in it. And, if you've run out of potions, or scrolls to hand out, you don't have to drop another $10 just to get a couple for that night's game.
While I cannot guarantee the contents of each booster, the number of cards in the set tell me that in each pack you should get.. roughly...
1 or 2 armor
2 or 3 weapons
2 potions
1 ring, staff, or rod
1 wand
1 scroll
2 miscellaneous itemsRoughly. You might get a pack that is very scewed from this.. but hopefully that will be unlikely.
Jason Bulmahn
So, to recap. If you don't care about visual variety, and don't mind handing out the same four potion cards (remember, they are GENERIC potions, not specific potions, so you can keep using those same four images again and again), or the same couple suits of armor, or what have you, then just buy the box. You know exactly which cards you'll get. You can buy a new box every time you need more potions, or scrolls, or rings.
If you want more variety of the common items, and a few more oddball items (like the Spiked Chain), then pick up the boosters. You also get a foil card, useful for representing an extra special item (you can still write on the back of it, just like a normal card).
Again, just to restate for the record -- you're not chasing any rares or hard to find cards with the boosters. You don't need a whole set. These are meant to be used. To be written on, and kept with the character sheet, and tossed aside after they are used up (in the case of potions).
I have a strong suspiscion that there will be an "Oh, now I get it!" moment when people start using these cards in their games.
I was eager for Pack 1 -- I've done similar things in the past with index cards for equipment, and these look much, much nicer and require no effort. And the cards didn't disappoint.
Like several others in this thread, though, I will not buy randomized boosters for a product like this. When people like Paizo "bust" packs to sell cards in groups I'll no doubt look into purchasing more. Given the increase in cost per card compared to the original release, though, I might have to pass even then.
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Paizo customers come in all shapes and sizes...I preorderd a Display box of Hero's Hoard because I want lots of copies! There is a whole new dimension to the game when you add lots of visuals (minis, item cards, graphics from the Dungeon Web Enhancements, fancy rune covered dice, location tiles, and so on). None of it is necessary. All of it is fun!
Voice your opinion (and thanks for these forums) but remember it's your dollar that really counts.