| Cyrlous |
A funny thing I realized about weaponsmithing recently. I've always had this idea of the large burly guy beating away on his latest piece of steel or iron, muscles bulging from the strain of hours worth of intense labor. So I created a fighter with craft (Weaponsmithing) to play out this role. But then as I was creating him I realized that craft is an Int based skill. And then it hit me. Wizards, not fighters, make the best weaponsmiths! So a wizard with 6 STR and 20 INT could craft a superior weapon than a strong, powerful fighter. At this point I became discouraged and scrapped my character idea because it just seemed silly. I instead created a wizard weaponsmith, with the added bonus that I can enchant my own weapons. Now my Wizard (with all of 8 STR) is in there pounding away at his forge each day in an attempt to perfect his craft.
| Lilith |
Weaponsmithing is not about Strength (though that certainly helps). Weaponsmithing is about technique. The best examples I can think of is the Japanese swordscrafter. (Cliche, yes, but very very true.) A weaponsmith is likely to have a team of assitants that help with the forging and doing much of the menial work - keeping the forge hot, cutting wood for the fire, keeping tools clean & sharp, fetching water for quenching. A weaponsmith's skill (his knowledge, his intellect) comes in with knowing how long to heat the metal in the fires, what kind of wood is best, knowing when to add the borax to the metal to prevent oxidization, how many times to fold it, how to shape it, what kind of tool to use - and so on.
There also needs to be a clear delineation between "blacksmithing" and "weaponsmithing." A blacksmith is much more likely to be found repairing pots and pans, mending farm tools, shoeing horses, sharpening tools - the everyday situations that every village found themselves in. Weapons were made to last, and requires a level of skill beyond your average blacksmith.
A wizard weaponsmith may be smart, but the practical application of that knowledge may not be there (book smarts vs common sense) and their may be a lack of motivation to use that knowledge. (The atypical scholar that has mountains of knowledge on a subject, but has never actually done anything.)
A wizard's intelligence is more focused on his area of expertise - magic. A fighter's intelligence would be more focused on his martial skills, which could include weaponsmithing. Also consider that a wizard doesn't start out (normally) with Martial Weapon Proficiency - most typical swords, axes, kukris and rapiers are much harder to make than a club, dagger or longspear (simple weapons). What motivation would a wizard have to take ranks in Craft (Weaponsmithing) if all he could use were simple weapons?
So, in conclusion, ladies & jellyspoons, a strong character may be able to speed up the shaping of the metal, but the character needs to have the smarts to back it up.
| Lilith |
So a wizard with 6 STR and 20 INT could craft a superior weapon than a strong, powerful fighter.
For a background on your character, you could have the angle that maybe he worked in his father's/mother's forge when younger and acquired the knowledge of how to craft weapons, but had an accident or a childhood disease which left him lame (hence the reduced Strength).
The added benefit is that your wizard could direct someone stronger than he (see the above example of a Weaponsmith with assistants) to do his grunt work for him. Your grunt could eventually pick up ranks in Craft (Weaponsmithing).
| Savaun Blackhawk |
A funny thing I realized about weaponsmithing recently. I've always had this idea of the large burly guy beating away on his latest piece of steel or iron, muscles bulging from the strain of hours worth of intense labor. So I created a fighter with craft (Weaponsmithing) to play out this role. But then as I was creating him I realized that craft is an Int based skill. And then it hit me. Wizards, not fighters, make the best weaponsmiths! So a wizard with 6 STR and 20 INT could craft a superior weapon than a strong, powerful fighter. At this point I became discouraged and scrapped my character idea because it just seemed silly. I instead created a wizard weaponsmith, with the added bonus that I can enchant my own weapons. Now my Wizard (with all of 8 STR) is in there pounding away at his forge each day in an attempt to perfect his craft.
You've hit on a nerve. I dislike the skill system in D&D 3.5. Granted a large amount of knowledge is needed to know how hard to make the steel (so it doesn't shatter like glass when you strike a shield or object), how much to temper it and when. However, strength is also important. Manual dexterity would also play a key role.
Whatever. Castles and Crusades, tell Gygax I'm comin'!!
Fake Healer
|
I have a blacksmith shop 2 blocks down from my house and watching the craftsmen work in there has made me notice 2 things. 1.)precision is more important than strength, i.e.Dexterity. 2.)constitution is more important than strength, repeatedly striking a precise spot with the exact same amount of force is something I picture a con check to acheive. On a side note, its pretty cool to to take a walk and listen to the sweet music of metal being pounded into someone's desired image. I love my town!
FH
| Cyrlous |
I definitely do see where int and skill would be useful in knowing how to make a weapon. My only point was that, given the way the skill system works, it is just assumed that anyone, no matter how weak or how little constitution they have, could stand at a forge all day. Now, I do realize I could roleplay it such that I have assistants for the manual labor parts, but the point I am making is that given the way the system works I could also NOT roleplay it that way and could instead simply have my weak, skinny mage beating away at a forge making a masterwork greatsword. I guess there really is nothing to be done for it, but still it just struck me as odd, I guess.
| ignimbrite78 |
My wife is a blacksmith and has done some weaponsmithing - she is not brawny. Take it from me - you need smarts and a good eye to be a smith. You very quickly build up the endurance (that would be a good feat) to pound away at metal. Also a good anvil has a lot of spring in it, when you strike the sword your hammer should recoil significantly. This reduces the amount of work you have to do. Don't forget that you are usually only striking the metal whilst it is hot - 2-3 mins at a time. After that it has to go back in the forge to heat up to red again.
If you want to play a smith having above average INT and perhaps endurance would set you on the right path and be totally in character with someone who spends time working with metal.
igi
| Kyr |
I don't think the issue of craft in the game is class, ability, or race related. I think it is primarily story related. If the background story makes sense and people role-play developing a skill then the craft skill maeks sense regardless of body type. But a backstory of I am a bookish wizard cloistered away with scrolls and tomes for your formative years then maxing out craft weaponsmith is lame. The same is true for improving skills that the character never practices - adventuring or ten levels maxing out craft weaponsmith without ever touching a forge, reading a book on the subject, or even being in a town.
Thats the mechanic of the game - but to me it is really cheesy play, and if a character roleplayed their advancement in a craft of profession as a DM I would adjust the DCs to reward that.
Think about the pace of level advancement - and the learning of skills - its horribly abused in terms of rational character development, I gained a level, never opened a book, or even seen an elemental but now I'm fluent in ignan or whatever. Some of this can be explained by magic - especially for certain skills and classes. But it is the players responsibility to have their character make sense not the rule books, the rules just keep the characters balanced.
| Taekkan |
Hello all,
I am an aspiring Metalsmith, currently taking classes to gain my BFA in metalsmithing, and let me tell you, it really has nothing to do with your strength. I am a pretty burly guy, 6'3" and 280+ lbs. and there are still thinks that I am having trouble doing, and my friend, who is 4'8" and skinny as a twig, and he has no problems with the stuff were working on right now.
It just takes time, practice, and a knowlegde of what your doing. I also have a problem with the simplistic way of 3.5 skills set ups, but in general INT is soo much more important that Strength.
ignimbrite78 is right, you develop the strength and endurance as you smith, but the knowledge of smithing takes time, and that is how Int helps in the skill.
>Lilith Said
>There also needs to be a clear delineation >between "blacksmithing" and "weaponsmithing." A blacksmith is >much more likely to be found repairing pots and pans, mending >farm tools, shoeing horses, sharpening tools - the everyday >situations that every village found themselves in. Weapons >were made to last, and requires a level of skill beyond your >average blacksmith.
When you wish to become a weaponsmith, you don't usually just pick up some steel, or iron and start hitting until you get a weapon, you usually start out as a blacksmith's apprentice, because the skills of a blacksmith to taper, bend, rivit, draw a hole, and a slew of other skills are required to make weapons. And although you can be a blacksmith who just makes horseshoes, and shoes horses, and repairs thing, they aren't just that, they can make a whole bunch of things. Fire place grates, lawn gates, and other things. Saying a blacksmith is just an average shmoe isn't a true comparison, that weaponsmith was at one point an avarage blacksmith who wanted to specialize into making weapons.
>Lilith Said
>A wizard's intelligence is more focused on his area of >expertise - magic. A fighter's intelligence would be more >focused on his martial skills, which could include >weaponsmithing. Also consider that a wizard doesn't start out >(normally) with Martial Weapon Proficiency - most typical >swords, axes, kukris and rapiers are much harder to make than >a club, dagger or longspear (simple weapons). What motivation >would a wizard have to take ranks in Craft (Weaponsmithing) >if all he could use were simple weapons?
No disrespect, but just because you don't know how to use something, does that mean you can't make it? If a weaponsmith strives to be the best weaponmaker he can, does he gain insight to how to use the items he makes better? Crafting something does not necissarily gain you a better familiarity with its function. As a metalsmith you gain a familierity with the properties of the substance, but not nessisarily on how to better use it in its end intended purpose. If I spend the next 3 years making high quality daggers does not mean I become a master with the dagger in armed combat.
>Lilith Said
>So, in conclusion, ladies & jellyspoons, a strong character >may be able to speed up the shaping of the metal, but the >character needs to have the smarts to back it up.
I aggree with your final point, having a wizzy w/ a high int max out craft (weaponsmithing) without some backround explaining it is stupid, but just because that guy is a wizzy does not mean that he isn't as good, or better than the fighter with the same skill.
| Joex The Pale |
I suppose that if I could have a rogue in my game that took Engineering as a skill choice (She thought it would assist her in doing second story jobs and B&E's in general. I wasn't gonna argue, it's her character), you could have a wizard that got a kick out of creating sharp pointy rods of iron for the big, dumb, jock/fighter types to wack away at the Big Bad Monster with.
(I love run-on sentences sometimes! They just make you want to take a long shuddering breath when yer done reading them...:-)