Since I know zilch about publishing gaming magazines, editing gaming magazines, printing costs of gaming magazines, and most of all MARKETING gaming magazines, but I do know what I like...I'm curious how others feel and what the Paizo staff have to say.
Dungeon used to be published in black and white, with a color cover. Maps were B&W, artwork was B&W, etc.
If Dungeon went back to this format, but threw in a 4th adventure each issue, would anyone else support this?
Would it be that much cheaper to print the magazine? I don't know...seems like it would be.
Artwork and color maps are nice, but I don't need them. I'd much rather get a 4th adventure or some premium online content. Would doing that save enough money for Paizo to hire more editorial staff, or would sales just tank because the magazine isn't pretty enough for the impulse buyer in the FLGS?
A lot of us Dungeon readers appear to be old school gamers...do we really need all that fancy color? The adventures are awesome--I want more of them--does the average DM really need to be impressed by the beautiful color of the map or does he just need a crisp B&W map that he can use to accurately run the adventure?
One more thing that I just remembered--is one of the reasons the magazine is printed in such bold color throughout now because a B&W magazine could be too easily scanned and digitized by copyright thieves/pirates?....'cuz if that's one of the reasons, then I understand completely.
Since I know zilch about publishing gaming magazines, editing gaming magazines, printing costs of gaming magazines, and most of all MARKETING gaming magazines, but I do know what I like...I'm curious how others feel and what the Paizo staff have to say.
Dungeon used to be published in black and white, with a color cover. Maps were B&W, artwork was B&W, etc.
If Dungeon went back to this format, but threw in a 4th adventure each issue, would anyone else support this?
Would it be that much cheaper to print the magazine? I don't know...seems like it would be.
Yes, it would be cheaper.
Artwork and color maps are nice, but I don't need them. I'd much rather get a 4th adventure or some premium online content. Would doing that save enough money for Paizo to hire more editorial staff, or would sales just tank because the magazine isn't pretty enough for the impulse buyer in the FLGS?
In the short run it would save them money, but as you point out it would cost the magazine some buyers (and not just off the shelf either). Color is basically a standard in the industry these days and no one wants to look sub-standard.
A lot of us Dungeon readers appear to be old school gamers...do we really need all that fancy color? The adventures are awesome--I want more of them--does the average DM really need to be impressed by the beautiful color of the map or does he just need a crisp B&W map that he can use to accurately run the adventure?
Personally speaking as an "old timer" I think its important to attract a new generation to the hobby. People need their own war stories, game worlds, etc.... without having to be forced into our sometimes outmoded mold. For my money the maps nowadays look very cool (many should be framed). Sure maybe no-one but the DM ever gets to see them, but who usually buys Dungeon? Also I can usually see where the furniture in a room is, and have an idea about layout (something the old outling maps of yore only did about fifty percent of the time). Lacking a chainmail swimsuit issue, the color adds just enough pretty to spark a little more interest in the magazine.
I'd love to see more adventures per issue too (if only for strictly selfish reasons), but I doubt the marketing figures would back up such a move in the long run. At least that's my print background/non-Paizo employee take on the matter.
New coolness, old and busted
GGG
for me i wouldn't subcribe if it went back to all b/w
I love the color art and Maps especially..since i play online and use scanned copies of the maps and artwork for battlemaps and online handouts,the loss of color would really disappoint me to no end.
Creative Director
|
Sure it would be cheaper to print in black and white and to use black and white art. It'd also be cheaper to publish the magazine on newsprint, or reduce the page count by half, or pay a quarter as much for the adventure themselves. None of these things are going to happen, because it would decrease the value of the magazine.
I've heard a lot of talk over the years that gamers effectively don't want art in their game products, that they'd rather have black & white art or no art at all if it meant that they'd be getting more words. This might make a few folks happy, but it'd turn of a LOT more than you might think. I've seen plenty of game books before that have little to no art, and they're not fun to look at. And in my experience, not fun to look at = not fun to play.
In any case, in order to maintain the presence we have on newsstands, in hobby shops, in bookstores, etc. we more or less HAVE to print in color. I'm not saying black & white isn't artistic... it's just not necessarilly marketable.
Personally, I think the art we publish in both magazines is among the best you'll find in the industry, and I'd absolutely hate to see it go.
As for printing a 4th adventure... paying less for art won't magically allow us to afford additional adventures. Even if we WERE to publish 4 or 6 or 10 adventures per issue... they'd either have to be incredibly short adventures (not something we're interested in) or we'd have to increase the page count. Keep in mind that it takes more than just $$$ to get those words in there; they have to be edited and laid out as well. With our staffing levels where they are now, we're just finally getting to a point were we can handle 3 adventures per issue and still have time to answer adventure proposals and get the other elements of the job done. Turning Dungeon into a larger magazine at this point simply isn't possible.
As for the NUMBER of adventures Dungeon produces... we're putting out about the same amount we were back in the "good old days." Remember; up until issue #98, Dungeon was bi-monthly. You might get 5 to 7 adventures each issue, but you only got 6 issues a year. Now, you get 3 solid adventures per issue, and you get 12 issues a year!
Anyway, in closing, don't take this post as indication that we'll NEVER print more than 3 adventures per issue. We've printed 4 now and then several times (especially if you count the backdrop articles we do now and then), and eventually I'd love the magazine to be in a place where it can expand its length enough that a 4th or even a 5th adventure can happen every month.
We're not there yet. But we're getting there. And we won't get there by stripping out the non-word parts of the magazine.
If I compare the 1st ed books and magazines to the latest edition, the new books are much more visually appealing, and I wouldn´t want to miss it. James said that it would be not an option going back, so the point is moot anyway, but I´m all for the "new" style. The old books were a "lead desert" sometimes. Well done artwork accompanying (sp?) an adventure can help setting the mood - a picture is saying more than a thousand words.
I don´t think using artwork in texts will keep anyone from copyright violations given the possibilities of modern technology. I scanned the hobgoblin ecology article, inverted the colors and reprinted it for my own use, this wasn´t that much work. I hate to read white text on black background.
Dear Editors: That last sentence was a vote: Please don´t do this again. Light-colored text on dark background really gives me pain in the eyes to read, I just hate it. :-)
Stefan
That's kind of what I thought the answers would be. I leafed through some old issues of Dungeon the other day while cleaning out my gaming material shelves and thought to myself that the B&W stuff didn't look that bad.
Times are different. I do enjoy the color as well and the artwork, but I totally understand all the reasons to keep it the way it is.
|
Go back and check out the artwork in "The Styes." It's an excellent adventure, but can you imagine it in black and white after seeing that amazing artwork? The way "The Styes" was presented was perfect and I wouldn't want it any other way.
Another point: People see and react to the artwork FIRST, before they read a word of the text. Artwork makes the first impression. It can make you say "Awesome!" before you read anything. How much of an adventure do you read before you say "Awesome?" Certainly not the first word, or sentence, or paragraph. Simply put, the artwork has you at "Hello."
ALthough the original poster makes a good arguement I agree with all the subsequent posters completely. There simply isn't anything I would change about the current incarnation of Dungeon magazine... it has simply never been better.
Cheers
Llowellen