Rules Question


3.5/d20/OGL


I have monk who has improved trip and the defensive throw feat from the complete warrior. If an enemy that I have assigned dodge to attacks and misses me and I succeed in throwing him with my defensive throw feat, do I get my free extra attack on him as if I were using my improved trip feat on my turn? Also what kind of action is it to use the Wholeness of body self healing for a monk? Is it free, standard or move? Any clarification from the masses would help. Thanx.

Shadow Lodge

Wholeness of Body is a supernatural ability. As such, it takes a standard action to use. The only exception to this general rule is if the supernatural ability specifically defines a different type of action as a requirement for using the ability.

The question regarding the use of your improved trip's extra attack after succesfully using Defensive Throw is a very good one. I do not see any reason why you could not gain this extra benefit personally; nothing I can see in the rules prevents such an occurance. Also, I draw a parrallel with use of Improved Grab on an AoO. For example, suppose a player decides to rush past an Otyugh (MM1). The Otyugh gets a single tentacle attack as an AoO, and if it hits, it's Improved Grab feat also applies, possibly grappling the character. In the same manner, should you use Defensive Throw as your AoO, I see no reason why another feat (Improved Trip in this case) could not be used on the attack, both to help you win the Trip opposed roll and to follow up with the free attack the Improved Trip feat grants you.

I could see where some DM's might take exception to this as it is not clearly spelled out, but my view is that you have invested *alot* in feats by the time you have Defensive Throw (Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip and Improved Unarmed Strike not to mention the feat itself), so getting a free melee attack after all of these feats "activate" seems like a fair payoff for all that investment.


I agree
igi


alright.. quick little list of rules and if you can site examples of where these rules are answered it would be a real big help when pointing it out to players/DMs...

#1: I have a character that wishes to have englarge person cast permanently on him. How much would it cost? Right now i am figuring the cost to be the cost of a permanency spell + the cost of an enlarge person spell + 5gp/exp point expended by the caster.... the reasoning for both spells is that the spell caster needs to expend two spells to do this effect. Is there a different way of calculating this cost or am i on the right track?

#2: When fighitng a fire element, if you hit it with a touch or mellee attack you take its fire damage. Is this for every attack that lands (say if you had three attacks), or would you just take the fire damage once for the whole attack series.

#3: If there are two frenzied beserkers in a battle (allies) and the first inspires frenzy on the second.. inspire frenzy states that you get all the positive and negative effects of being frenzied.. so if they both have die-hard does that mean that he would have his die-hard class ability while he is being inspired.
#3 (part 2): if the top is yes... can the second beserker expend his frenzy near the end of the first beserkers frenzy and inspire the first beserker? (assuming that the second beserker was not forced to beserk due to damage.)

#4: If a thief is invisible.. and positions himself betweek two enemies (both within attack range).. and the theif can make two attacks each round, can he effectivly get sneak attack on both targets?

I think the answere to #3 might be both a yes or a no.. because the inspire frenzy says you get both the positives and negative effects of being frenzied.. and you can only use a frenzy once per battle.. but at the same time the 2nd beserker hasnt actually used his... its a very trickey one..


Bladesinger2002 wrote:
#1: I have a character that wishes to have englarge person cast permanently on him. How much would it cost? Right now i am figuring the cost to be the cost of a permanency spell + the cost of an enlarge person spell + 5gp/exp point expended by the caster.... the reasoning for both spells is that the spell caster needs to expend two spells to do this effect. Is there a different way of calculating this cost or am i on the right track?

You are correct. This will cost the character 3,400 gp ((9x50)+(9x50)+(5x500)). Note, though, that a dispel magic spell cast by a 10th level or higher caster can instantly remove the spell (as long as the caster passes a DC 20 caster level check). The only references you need here are the Spellcasting Services table in the PH under equipment and the Permanency spell itself.

Bladesinger2002 wrote:
#2: When fighitng a fire element, if you hit it with a touch or mellee attack you take its fire damage. Is this for every attack that lands (say if you had three attacks), or would you just take the fire damage once for the whole attack series.

It is important to note that you would only take the damage if directly touching it (with a touch attack, unarmed strike, or natural weapon). As for the question, the entry on fire elementals does not specify that the damage is per round of contact, so I would assume that the character would take damage each time he touched the elemental. After all, if you stick your hand into a fire 5 times in six seconds, it will probably burn you worse than if you had only done it once. The only necessary reference here is the Fire Elemental entry.

Bladesinger2002 wrote:
#3: If there are two frenzied beserkers in a battle (allies) and the first inspires frenzy on the second.. inspire frenzy states that you get all the positive and negative effects of being frenzied.. so if they both have die-hard does that mean that he would have his die-hard class ability while he is being inspired.

Yes. The inspired character gains all the benefits of frenzy, so he gets to use his deathless frenzy ability.

Bladesinger2002 wrote:
#3 (part 2): if the top is yes... can the second beserker expend his frenzy near the end of the first beserkers frenzy and inspire the first beserker? (assuming that the second beserker was not forced to beserk due to damage.)

No. As you indicated at the bottom of your post, the inspire frenzy grants the frenzy ability as written. I would say that if the second berserker tried to inspire, nothing would happen (unless there were allies within range who had not yet berserked that battle). Frankly, if someone tried to seriously argue otherwise, I would consider banning the class. Let common sense rule here. The references for this and the previous question are all within the Frenzied Berserker writeup.

Bladesinger2002 wrote:
#4: If a thief is invisible.. and positions himself betweek two enemies (both within attack range).. and the theif can make two attacks each round, can he effectivly get sneak attack on both targets?
The invisibility effect ends when the rogue makes his first attack.
Player's Handbook, invisibility wrote:
The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature.

Unless the other enemy is flanked or flat-footed (or there is some other extenuating circumstance), the rogue does not get a second sneak attack in this situation. Also note that it ends when he attacks rather than when he deals damage. So if he misses with his first attack he still becomes visible again.

TK


GrooveD70 wrote:
I have monk who has improved trip and the defensive throw feat from the complete warrior. If an enemy that I have assigned dodge to attacks and misses me and I succeed in throwing him with my defensive throw feat, do I get my free extra attack on him as if I were using my improved trip feat on my turn? Also what kind of action is it to use the Wholeness of body self healing for a monk? Is it free, standard or move? Any clarification from the masses would help. Thanx.

Lich-Loved has it.

TK


Alright... time for some more hurting the DMs head

The Spell Compendium does not list that the Warmage (from the complete Arcane) gets any of the spells there-in... aka.. they dont have a warmage section... Though i think that the warmage should have access to some of the spells there-in, such as chain-missile... after all, he does get magic missile why not chain missile.
Is there any official errata on this?


Bladesinger2002 wrote:

Alright... time for some more hurting the DMs head

The Spell Compendium does not list that the Warmage (from the complete Arcane) gets any of the spells there-in... aka.. they dont have a warmage section... Though i think that the warmage should have access to some of the spells there-in, such as chain-missile... after all, he does get magic missile why not chain missile.
Is there any official errata on this?

I can't remember where I read it but the thinking there was that adding additional spells to the Warmage's list would unbalance them. It was recommended that if you wanted to add spells for the Compendium, then they should be swapped out for other spells already on the Warmage's list. As it is they already have a wide varity, granted all damage spells mostly, but still a lot of spells to choose from.


...sniff-sniff...smell that?

I smell a munchkin! :)


I’ve Got Reach wrote:

...sniff-sniff...smell that?

I smell a munchkin! :)

YEUP!!! :)

This is suppose to be a PVP... and the DM has let this one monk get uber powerful... ex: only charged him for one hand but let both hands get enchanted with Greater Magical Fang +5...

I gotta go munchkin if i have any chances of winning.... and the monk is only the starters LOL


Thanis Kartaleon wrote:
Bladesinger2002 wrote:
#1: I have a character that wishes to have englarge person cast permanently on him.
Note, though, that a dispel magic spell cast by a 10th level or higher caster can instantly remove the spell (as long as the caster passes a DC 20 caster level check).

He doesn't have to be 10th level or higher. Spells that are made permanent on locations, objects, or creatures other than the permanency caster himself are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.


Vegepygmy wrote:
He doesn't have to be 10th level or higher. Spells that are made permanent on locations, objects, or creatures other than the permanency caster himself are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.

My bad. I think I may have gotten my wires crossed somewhere; you're right, he could very well be 5th level. But the DC remains the same (20).


In regards to dealing damage to an opponent after throwing them I think that wouldn't work. I again haven't seen the descriptor of the feat but if you throw someone they are no longer close to you. So in order to damage them the thrower would have to move to where their victim is. Thus I don't think that you would be able to do on an attack of opportunity as you are not allowed to move during one of those.
THen again I don't have all the books in front of me so I could be wrong. Please let me know if you think I am wrong.
Later
A.

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