Anyone else experiencing the rogue bluff check during every encounter every round to get a sneak attack? I have limited it to one time a round for one thing but it really lends itself to abuse.Anyone have creative ways of limiting this or is this new damage pumping rogue the norm and I'm just behind the times?
Anyone else experiencing the rogue bluff check during every encounter every round to get a sneak attack? I have limited it to one time a round for one thing but it really lends itself to abuse.Anyone have creative ways of limiting this or is this new damage pumping rogue the norm and I'm just behind the times?
According to the rules, it has to be used as a standard action, not a move action. This bonus applies to only one attack after a sucessful opposed roll, and the attack must occur on his next turn (the target is NOT denied his bonus for the entire following round. . . just one, single attack ).
Translated, this means that the rogue can only use this every other round. There are Feats that will allow the skill to be used as a move action, but none that allow it as a free action.
In either case, using it round after round (every other round, that is) leaves the rogue pretty exposed to the creature he's attacking. They should be using their full attacks on him pretty regularly. Also, don't forget that the victim's base attack bonus is added to their opposed rolls, and there are negative modifiers when used against nonhumanoid opponents.
Anyone else experiencing the rogue bluff check during every encounter every round to get a sneak attack? I have limited it to one time a round for one thing but it really lends itself to abuse.Anyone have creative ways of limiting this or is this new damage pumping rogue the norm and I'm just behind the times?
Using a feint to allow a sneak attack? There's nothing wrong with that, but it is crucial to remember the following:
Feinting is a STANDARD ACTION.Even if the character has improved feint, it is still at least a MOVE ACTION.....
Also, the rule states that the feint only applies against the NEXT attack the character makes, and only if they make that attack by the end of the following round.
This means that under normal circumstances, a sneak attack using feint requires two rounds... only if the rogue has improved feint can they do it in a single round (feinting as the move action and then attacking as their standard action).
- Ashavan
Chris beat me to the punch. dang.
- Ashavan
Chris beat me to the punch. dang.
- Ashavan
True, but you follow up punch was much more concise. :)
I LOVE this board! Thanks alot! I was doing it wrong. This will make it much more "believable" if you will.After rereading it now I can't believe I missed that....heat of the moment,bad eyesite,old age...dumber than dirt...lol..pick any two. Very cool I go forth armed with my new knowledge.
I don't know if you are aware of this prestige class "INVISIBLE BLADE"?... but it is in the Complete Warrior and allows feinting in combat as a free action. So your party Rogue could keep rolling them bluffs till the cows come home.
I don't find bluff checks especially useful n combat. The defender gets to add their BAB to the sense motive check so combat adept combatants are hard to get the drop on. I say good old fashoned flanking is the best way to go.
Even still, a Rogue with maxed-out ranks in Bluff and a decent Cha score has a minimum of a 4-5 point advantage over an equal-level fighter, depending on the fighter's Wis score. The only full-BAB class with Sense Motive as a class skill that I know of is the Paladin, and they still have the limitation of having pitiful skill points, so Paladins with max ranks in SM aren't even that common. The feint-in-combat option is a great way for a rogue to get his SA damage when he can't count on being able to flank round after round.
Even still, a Rogue with maxed-out ranks in Bluff and a decent Cha score has a minimum of a 4-5 point advantage over an equal-level fighter, depending on the fighter's Wis score. The only full-BAB class with Sense Motive as a class skill that I know of is the Paladin, and they still have the limitation of having pitiful skill points, so Paladins with max ranks in SM aren't even that common. The feint-in-combat option is a great way for a rogue to get his SA damage when he can't count on being able to flank round after round.
I have to agree. The feint rules aren't that ripe for abuse - unless you take either Improved Feint or Invisible Blade, you only get an attack every-other round. They are imperative if you are trying to play a rogue and you want to make use of that all-important sneak attack as many times as possible in combat.
I've played an Invisible Blade before, and it's a totally different p.o.v. when you are the one doing it. It may seem twinky, but much like the swashbuckler who uses Combat Expertise every round, it's not so much broken as underutilized...like aid another actions. =)