Here's a concept I'm working on for my current AoW campaign, but it applies to DMing in general.
Adventures seek employment, and often find a steady employer... a patron. Sometimes the patron is an influencial noble who is willing to finance an adventuring group in order to gain goals of their own. Other times, adventuring parties find help from some big-name former adventures... Elminster, Tenser, etc.
As a DM tool, this allows a credible way to levy information to the players. Often, the reason that many of the Big Names get involved (nobles as well as iconic adventurers) is because the adventuring party discovered an important piece to a larger puzzle. The Big Names don't just take the piece and send the adventures away, they give up valuable information, money and/or the next place to go to continue on their "adventrue path."
Then I realized that I've under-used this tool when it comes to giving information to the party. Why not include a lower-level adventuring group that comes the the party looking for help? Or looking to sell off loot from their adventures? Or having them discover an important clue that the lower-level group believes would interest the higher-level group?
Generally, when I run a game, I'll throw out a couple of leads, then let the players follow-up on what they want. But if I want to introduce a lower-level group to my players, I would like the players to "guide" the lower-level party to complete their quest, but I'm afraid that they would simply go and complete the quest for the lower-level party themselves.
Has anyone used this idea before? What is a good way for a DM to introduce information from a lower-level group?
Shbooooing *idea stolen* :))
I think it's a very cool idea. I was trying to guess how I would put my PCs on the track of an important NPC. Now I know. Many thanks Big Jake.
One idea to introduce information from a lower level party could be a failed mission. The only survivor of a former group warns the PCs they fell on a bone too tough for them. Their quest was vital but for a reason they couldn't finish it. Now it's in the hands of the PCs. Not very original, but it may work.
Bran.
Here's a concept I'm working on for my current AoW campaign, but it applies to DMing in general.
Adventures seek employment, and often find a steady employer... a patron. Sometimes the patron is an influencial noble who is willing to finance an adventuring group in order to gain goals of their own. Other times, adventuring parties find help from some big-name former adventures... Elminster, Tenser, etc.
As a DM tool, this allows a credible way to levy information to the players. Often, the reason that many of the Big Names get involved (nobles as well as iconic adventurers) is because the adventuring party discovered an important piece to a larger puzzle. The Big Names don't just take the piece and send the adventures away, they give up valuable information, money and/or the next place to go to continue on their "adventrue path."
Then I realized that I've under-used this tool when it comes to giving information to the party. Why not include a lower-level adventuring group that comes the the party looking for help? Or looking to sell off loot from their adventures? Or having them discover an important clue that the lower-level group believes would interest the higher-level group?
Generally, when I run a game, I'll throw out a couple of leads, then let the players follow-up on what they want. But if I want to introduce a lower-level group to my players, I would like the players to "guide" the lower-level party to complete their quest, but I'm afraid that they would simply go and complete the quest for the lower-level party themselves.
Has anyone used this idea before? What is a good way for a DM to introduce information from a lower-level group?
This was a tough one Jake. I realised after reading your post a second time that you want to give the PC's info but not get them side tracked on a side quest, am I right?
A suggestion would be to have the low level party come to your PC's looking to BUY an item you have awarded the PC's in a previous adventure. They reveal whatever bit of info you want to hand your PC's and offer cash or other items as part of an exchange. This way you get the info to your players but don't make them feel obligated to "finish" the low level party's quest for them."We don't need your help great adventurers, but we could sure use that wand of Charm Monster you've got there..."
Introduce a time critical element. Many times, the party discovers clues little by little as to what's going on, and when they finally figure it out, they're all set to rush off to the final battle, or whatever.
This lesser adventuring party, however, has discovered the whole plot (at least, so they think), and have no chance of dealing with the foe presented. Enter the real party.
They rush off and (hopefully) defeat the challege, but discover that this wasn't the end of the plot after all. Now, the players have to continue on their path, while possibly corrdinating with and assigning lesser, but still important, duties to the lesser party. A villain that escapes the players the first time is probably a good hook to keep them on their path (especially if he killed one of the party members).
Many DMs worry, "what happens if they kill the recurring villain?" Simple: he can return as an undead, he was really just a simulacrum, is raised, or somehow reappears without any apparent explanation (a mystery the party should be very interested in solving).
I really like this idea of the party as patrons. I've always been interested in showing my players the flipside of things they are used to experiencing.
Example: Once, when exploring a swamp, they suddenly found themselves summoned to the Abyss by a balor sorcerer to fight off a horde of dretches and other lesser demons while the balor dueled with a pit fiend in the distance. When the spell ended, they found themselves right back in the swamp. It made them think about using summon monster for a long time afterwards. :)
...you want to give the PC's info but not get them side tracked on a side quest, am I right?
Exactly! I had a hard time trying to say that as concisely as you just did.
I'm glad this topic has a least a little interest, and I like the ideas so far.
As for my current campaign, the players are setting up a base of operations, and want to develop the immediate surrounding area to better suit their adventuring needs. I think that the effort they put into it will attract the attention of other adventurers as well, so I'm kinda leaning in that direction to introduce the lower-level party.
I am using a similar situation in my own campain. I have introduced the party to two other adventuring groups that "work" the area. They are very close to each other in levels but that will change soon as the PCs shoot upward (hopefully). Each group has its own seperate goals and motivations which helps me introduce new ideas/adventures/advice to the party in a way that is not your typical wizard/nobleman patron.
My intention is to have quests offered to both the PCs and the other parties at roughly the same time, this way if my PCs don't show any intrest in the adventure (i.e. they think it's too hard, it's not the type of adventure they want to do right now etc..) then "the world keeps rolling" and the quest is taken by another group.
I think if you bring this other low level group of adventureres into the same area as your PCs you could have them function in a similar way. At the same time they can perform the task you wanted of feeding the party info that you as a DM think they should have. Good luck!
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It's logical that there would be other adventurers within an area that a PC party is currently "working". In fact, it makes sense that adventurers would gravitate towards each other and spend down time together. The local population of mundane individuals would likely avoid the adventurers because they are different and "scary". Think of a Harley Club when it roars into a small town. They stick together and the locals mix marginally. Advunterers are much like a Harley Club! Adventurers that congregate together is the perfect opportunity for wizards to trade spells and warriors to hone their skills (remember that funky concept called training? I know, passe and all that but...). Rogues can gather information and before long the next adventure is on hand. Most large fantasy cities have guilds specifically for the adventuring working class. Small towns have them too — Ye Olde Tavern is their guildhall.
Using a low level party to feed information to the PCs is perfect use of NPCs. It provides a more "realistic" feel for the setting and reminds the players that their PCs aren't alone in their profession. If the NPCs have memorable personalities, the PCs will likely take the other party in as "understudies". The PCs may discover work for the understudies and point them the right way for a cut of the loot. The understudies can feed the PCs information that seems out of their league as well, hoping for a similiar percentage.
To make the understudy concept more credible, have the NPC party made up of classes not in the PC's party. This way the NPCs have metagaming reasons they may not tackle a situation and give the information to the PCs. Also, the PCs may find they need a bard/psion/paladin/whatever that's in the understudy party and invite them along for some work, allowing the DM to have an NPC for a forthcoming scenario.
Have fun with it!
Wow... here I am 5 months later. I finally got the lower-level party into play in my Age of Worms campaign. Here's the gist:
****Some Age of Worms Spoilers****
The party members (now 11th level) returned to Diamond Lake after spending just over two months in the Free City (Greyhawk, for me) and having won the Champions' Games. They teleported back to their house and discovered some people were there, apparently making themselves somewhat comfortable.
With a few quick introdutions, they discover that the three people were Velias Childramun and Melinde (from the Chapel of Heironeous) and Proud Polly, a recently unemployed *ahem* compainion from the Emporium. They told the PCs that they had been waiting for their return, and told them about the destruction of the town, the black dragon, and Allustan.
After answering all the PCs' questions, they said that the attack by the dragon destroyed their sense of safety, and instead of staying in town fixing things, they would rather go out and be involved... "like you guys."
The players at first were like "okay, good... go get 'em" and I asked for a Sense Motive check, then I said "you feel like they're asking you for a job... a paying job... and some guidance."
The lights went on, and the party cleric sat down and went into great detail all about the Age of Worms, the Ebon Triad, and whatnot, to which the NPCs just kind of went blank-eyed and nodded.
The druid then asked if they knew a tracker, and they said they did. So he said, "Get your tracker, escort this lizardfolk back to the Twisted Branch tribe, and deliver this note to their new leader." The NPCs' eyes lit up at the easier to understand agenda.
They gave the NPCs some gold and two +1 longswords when it became clear that the new adventurers didn't have an enchanted weapon between all of them. In exchange, the NPCs will handle the final part of the treaty, and look into Ilthane's other dealings in the swamp... something they wanted to do to try to find the dragon's lair.
The idea worked great, and it seemed that the players were interested in having their own "pawns" in the great dragonchess game.
I've now started on what kind of information the NPC party can bring that will lead the PCs on... most likely freshly minted coins from a particular area near Ilthane's lair.
I love it. Sometimes, I run into a situation where I need one of my PCs to explain something to me, just to make sure I know that he or she knows that the heck is going on. This would provide a great in-game mechanism for doing that.
Of course, you can't introduce this without having the "kidnapped" scenario; perhaps, later on in the campaign, a higher-ranking cultist captures them, and the PCs have to rescue their proteges. Yeah, I know, I'm a sucker for getting away from the main story and introducing a sidequest ;)
On the other hand, if the PCs abuse this group like so many little interns, you could have the group advance in power quickly, and become competitors in the main storyline. Wouldn't it be great if the little dweebs your PCs hired got themselves invited to Zeech's dinner party?