When you lost me, Why you lost me


Dragon Magazine General Discussion

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Yamo wrote:
There's always been a D&D focus, yes, but I remember plenty of articles for GURPs, Champions, Gamma World, Traveller, Boot Hill, Top Secret, Gamma World, Torg, Vampire, and many others. As well as articles that didn't address specific games at all, but rather whole genres and subgenres of gaming more generically. Hell, I remember a neat little article in the early 90s that was just about dice and the weird quirks and superstitions that gamers build-up around them. This is why I feel Dragon has narrowed its focus so much and why that's such a sad thing. Where is the magazine that embraces our whole hobby? Any one corner of it, even one as big a one as D&D, can stand alone in my opinion.

Okay. Now, I see what you are saying better.

You have to go back a ways for Traveller (would that there was a SF game that good out now) and Champions. TSR owned Gamma World, Boot Hill and Top Secret and promoted these in Dragon just like Marvel Super Heroes, Alternity, Star Frontiers etc.. TORG? Couldn't have been more than 2 articles. Vampire? No more than that. Now, I do recall a number of GREAT Call of Cthulthu articles, at least 6 or so. But all told, all these articles were pretty sparse.

I do recall the genre articles you mention. Again, these were not that frequent but I'll make you a bet. ;-) You write a good "genre" article and I bet Erik or Jason will publish it. I think you don't see these articles more often because Dragon just doesn't get many. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you that Coke and I'll drink a Mt. Dew with you. :-)


I'd like to believe that, but I just don't see them publishing something with a modern-day or sci-fi slant, for example. Perhaps not even a "meta-genre" like horror unless it was in a D&D fantasy context. Something on very specific subgenre like comic book superheroics? Seems even more unlikely.

I think it would also take more than me sending in an article (something I would so love to do, but am handicapped by my totally lack of interest in and knowledge of the current D&D rules set). I think such articles would have to be actively requested and solicited.

There are some really talented and creative folks on the RPG.Net forums, for example, including a lot of pro and semi-pro game designers. I'd bet that if the Dragon staff were to post there requesting submissions with the only guidelines being maximum word counts and subject matter that relates to any facet of gaming today, there would be a deluge of incredible submissions. I think a large segment of the hobby would bend over backwards for a magazine that would publish the occasional non-D&D-related article.

But now I'm just daydreaming. :)


Yamo wrote:

There are some really talented and creative folks on the RPG.Net forums, for example, including a lot of pro and semi-pro game designers. Perhaps if the Dragon staff were to post there requesting submissions with the only guidelines being maximum word counts and subject matter that relates to any facet of gaming today. I think a large segment of the hobby would bend over backwards for a magazine that would publish the occasional non-D&D-related article.

But now I'm just daydreaming. :)

Dragon Jam 2005!!! I _LOVE_ this idea!

RPG.net, EN-World, Canonfire.com, Realms of Evil. I'd spread the net widely. Let people write whatever they want with only two conditions - (1) Word count and (2) No infringement on copyright. Emphasize the more "never seen that before" the better. Top 12 entries will be published in Dragon. Maybe one a month. If successful, there could be a yearly Dragon Jam.

Cool way to leverage the net! I think you may be on to something, Yamo! :)

Contributor

Yamo wrote:

I'd like to believe that, but I just don't see them publishing something with a modern-day or sci-fi slant, for example. Perhaps not even a "meta-genre" like horror unless it was in a D&D fantasy context. Something on very specific subgenre like comic book superheroics? Seems even more unlikely.

This actually ties into a current "theme" of books coming from WotC. This month released "Heroes of Battle." As I recall, there's a "Heroes of Horror" slated for the future, and a few others as well.

Amazon.com link to Heroes of Horror (I'd link directly the WotC catalog, but the site is blocked at my office ;) )

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

I should note that the Polyhedron mini-games covered much of the genre territory you mention, Yamo. They were very popular with some readers, and very unpopular with others. One of the unfortunate byproducts of an "all-D&D" focus over the course of the last decade or so is that most of our readers are rabidly against anything without a concrete tie to D&D.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon


In all fairness, Erik, the mini-games were also friggin' HUGE. At least relative to a normal five or six page article. There was never a point in Dragon's history where Dungeons & Dragons wasn't the focus of the magazine by a wide margin, but people didn't seem to mind the occasional non-fantasy or non-D&D gaming article that much if it was well-done and not an entire magazine unto itself.

It's a matter of scale, you know?


What's most disappointing to me is that for awhile there, the magazine seemed to be a testing ground for material that would eventually see a "hardcover" release later from WotC. And now, Paizo proactically refuses to acknowledge any of the material from a lot of these releases (Mr. Mona's statement re: not seeing any of the Class Acts devoted to any of the twelve new core classes from the 'Complete...' books and so on). (I was surprised to see so much space devoted to the warlock in the latest issue's 'Sage' column, actually . . . )

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

We've got nothing against the new material in the Wizards books. My campaign features, for example, a scout and a ninja, both of which appear in a "Complete" book. We all like the warlock.

We'll periodically provide support for these classes, but I want to keep Class Acts, in the main, focused on the core classes.

Wizards continues to republish material that frist saw print in Dragon. The newly released "Champions of Ruin," for example, included spells from James Jacobs's "Tvash-Prull's Symphony" article in #328. I have no reason to expect this trend to change.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon


I gotta admit, I could seriously do without the silicon sorcery section. For the most part it's pretty much useless to me. Does anyone else find a use for it?

On the idea of "meatiness", I would say that recent issues have been very meaty. Lot's of good stuff in there. I've been able to find at least one thing in every issue in the past year to add into my campaign. I don't think I could ask for anything more than that really.

One thing that does disturb me though is seeing lengthy articles devoted to products which are pretty removed from core. Take the recent Kenku ecology. It's very well written. Interesting take on a critter that's been around for, well forever. However, it's so much bird cage lining for me since they didn't bother to give me the updated stats for Kenku. I'm not about to go and buy yet another monster manual just so I can use an article from Dragon, no matter how interesting it is. How difficult would it have been to get permission to publish the OGL information for Kenku? A simple stat block entry would have turned this article from, "Hmm, that's interesting." to "Hey, great, a new race for my urban campaign!"

Since I don't think I'm going to see Ecology articles based on Asaatthi or Vengaurak, I don't think it's out of line to not expect lengthy articles advertising recent WOTC publications.


Jason McDonald wrote:

I gotta admit, I could seriously do without the silicon sorcery section. For the most part it's pretty much useless to me. Does anyone else find a use for it?

I don't know. I rather like the idea of having a chocobo for a paladin's special mount. "Wark."

GGG


Actually, I'd forgotten about the Chokobo thing. I actually used that one for a "horse" race session in my campaign. Oops, I guess I do read it. Heh. My bad.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Great Green God wrote:

I don't know. I rather like the idea of having a chocobo for a paladin's special mount. "Wark."

GGG

I'm with you there. I really think it'd be a fun thing to toss into a Eberron campaign. There ARE magebred animals already. A magebred Chocobo would be really fun IMO. "I feel the need, the need for SPEED!"


My first issue was #50. I started subscribing later and kept it going all the way through issue 310 or so, and let it lapse as I had been years out of gaming at that point (at one time I had the whole collection from 50 to 300. Alas, time and many moves have eroded my collection down to #50 to 89, plus 100, 200, 300, and a few issues that I contributed to). I feel the same as the original poster: #100 fantastic, #200 great, #300... blah.


I started being able to afford my own Dragons when issue #48 came out. It was magic.

I then collected every Dragon back to 25 and few earlier issues. Got on board subscribing with Dungeon when it first came out, have all the issues.

I also have all of the Strategic Reviews. Bought them for a buck a piece.

Well bully for me.

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