Is it cool to start threads discussing non-d20 games here? I love D&D like you wouldn't believe, if by "D&D" you mean beholders, dungeons, magic missile and such. My feelings on the d20 system, on the other hand, are much less...congenial.*
What do you say, Paizo guys?
* Translation: I prefer to translate my favorite fantasy game into a set of rules that doesn't make me want to stab my face and groin with an ice pick until I die. :)
Sounds like you mean non-d20 roleplaying games?
Feel free to start threads on other roleplaying systems.
If it's popular enough, we'll consider adding a new forum.
Is it cool to start threads discussing non-d20 games here? I love D&D like you wouldn't believe, if by "D&D" you mean beholders, dungeons, magic missile and such. My feelings on the d20 system, on the other hand, are much less...congenial.*
What do you say, Paizo guys?
* Translation: I prefer to translate my favorite fantasy game into a set of rules that doesn't make me want to stab my face and groin with an ice pick until I die. :)
Oh, you mean Palladium.
Yeah, I know what you mean great worlds - lousy rules. I convert TMNT, Robotech and Rifts into Mayfair's old DC Heroes RPG whenever I get the chance. It handles the horrible combat rules much better (i.e. you can actually blow things up without having to resort to half of your 400+ missile payload and rounds don't last for days).
"AD&D" (in all of its 'advanced' versions) also holds no appeal for me. Give it to me out of a Red, Blue, Teal or Black Box - or the current 3.5 and I'm fine though.
So what do you convert to.
-G3
PS I hope you didn't say Palladium. If you did - oops.
"So what do you convert to."
FUDGE, HERO, Tri-Stat dX are some of my favorites. Especially FUDGE.
Rolemaster by I.C.E.: D10 (math, anyone?)
Middle Earth Role Playing: D10 (more math)
GURPS: D6 (good universal)
Shadowrun: Various (fun future tech)
Elfquest: D10 (simple, maybe too simple...)
Car Wars: D6? (been a long time)
Star Wars: D6 (as I recall, and rather limited in plotlines...)
Palladium: (been too long, but LOVE those Wolfin)
I've played them all, and had fun at them all. I'd have to say for that fantasy feel, Rolemaster by Iron Crown Enterprises was the most rewarding. (Monte Cook used to work on it, now he's part of the WOTC clan, If I'm correct, and I see a lot of stuff in D&D that's similar to it as of 3.5)
- Warcry
I was given a copy of Avalon Hill's (AH) Rune Quest (RQ) back in the 80's (affectionatly called Rule Quest), but could never wrap my immature mind around the rules completely. RQ was an upgrade to an AH game called Powers & Perils (P&P), which I felt was far superior to 1st or 2nd Ed. D&D, so thats the game system we used. I even converted my Dungeon adventures to P&P.
I still feel P&P's combat system and RQ's rules regarding armor and Hit Points are superior to WOTC d20 D&D game system. But D&D has superior magic system and a greater selection of creatures to work with. Include its immense fan base (relatively speaking) and current support, and its a no-brainer.
All things being equal, 3.5 (and 3.0 before it) has made great strides to becoming the best product available today for fantasy gaming, in my opinion. But I really think we are in for big changes in D&D 4.0, when WOTC has exhausted its supply of optional books to release. I think some of the major points 4.0 may include will be adoption of the Star Wars/Unearthed Arcana Hit Point/Wound Point system. What I would really like to see is better support for "Weapon Fatigue" and "Armor Damage Resistance" - that is, statistics that dictate how much damage a weapon may deal (or armor be dealt) before degradating integrity and eventually breaking.
I cut my teeth on 2nd Ed... And watched the rules pile up and pile up and pile up... until, as almost an inevitability, 3.0 hit critical mass. It was a needed thing... The system got stream-lined and got an updating to a more current feel. I was incensed when they put out 3.5... as were most of my friends. Looking over the rules, though, I see it, too was a needed thing. Some bumpy spots got hammered out, and some things that were just plain broken got fixed. All that said, It's not really my favorite system.
That honor goes to GURPS. Haven't gotten much chance to investigate the new version, but if it's just an update of the old one, then it's all good. Smoother learning curve, and more realistic combat... you catch an arrow with your face, and you are likely dead, or very close to it.
Not that that'll stop me from playing d20 games or buying the supplements... I do like the system, seen up here from the top of the learning curve. Especially since GURPS lost it's major advantage over D&D when d20 came out: adaptability. Now, if you want to bring your contemporary characters into a classic roman setting, you can do it roughly as easily either way.
I always wanted to look into Car Wars back in the day, but I never got around to it. Was it any good? If so, I may try ebay.
I always wanted to look into Car Wars back in the day, but I never got around to it. Was it any good? If so, I may try ebay. [/QUOTE
Nah, Car Wars was really more of a supplement to the crazy drivers we had in Shadowrun who hook themselves up to their own car for an adrenaline rush every time they hit the gas. :-)
It wasn't deep enough for more than a few games, in my humble opinion, but a nice add-on.
I was given a copy of Avalon Hill's (AH) Rune Quest (RQ) back in the 80's (affectionatly called Rule Quest), but could never wrap my immature mind around the rules completely. RQ was an upgrade to an AH game called Powers & Perils (P&P)
Please allow me to correct that.
Rune Quest being the game that got me to RPGs, and still being my Holy Grail. The Game was created published and by Chaosium (of CoCuthuhu and Pendragon fame).Their Basic Roleplay System was used in all their RPGs with slight modifications for the relevant game. Their Learning-by-doing skill system was revolutionary, and it was one of the first games which allowed you to basically play any race. What I loved most was their unique, well developed and described world, Glorantha.
3er Edition RW was distributed by AH, in a try to reach a broader player base.
It still holds a special place in my heart, and sometimes I just lean back and page through the books and old campaign notes.
I always wanted to look into Car Wars back in the day, but I never got around to it. Was it any good? If so, I may try ebay.
I played Car Wars a bit around '91-'92 or so. I remember it being a nice break from marathon sessions of 2nd Edition AD&D. Certainly nothing you could build campaigns around - but a nice game nonetheless.
I always wanted to look into Car Wars back in the day, but I never got around to it. Was it any good? If so, I may try ebay.
There is a GURPS Carwars RP supplement out there.
Please allow me to correct that.
Correction noted. I'm glad you mentioned the learn-by-doing method; that was something both game systems (RQ & PP)employed. In Powers & Perils case, they even added an additional stipulation to skills with Maximum Skill Levels possible based on your character's natural abilities. An interesting mechanic to be sure. Unfortunately the skill system was not as tight as it could have been and suffered from a great deal of inconsistancies.
At my local hobby store, there is a game called Zombies! for 25 bucks you get 20 plastic zombies, 3 plastic men and a rulebook...
And, you can get 100 zombies in the "Bag O' Zombies!" for just 9.99!
I always wanted to look into Car Wars back in the day, but I never got around to it. Was it any good? If so, I may try ebay.
Note here I am talking about the board game not the RPG.
You really need to either play with a lot of people or come up with some kind of really inventive scenario system. That said its got a bit of a learning curve but can be one of the most exciting games around.
One scenario that worked for us when one did not have a dozen players around that my friends and I used to play in a mass kill type battle in which players got some massive sum of money (usually a million) and each player designed a fleet of cars. The map was any kind of sizable cityscape and cars entered at a random road entrance doing 60 MPH at the rate of one car from each player every 2 or 3 seconds.
Its important to have the cars enter randomly so that its more difficult to get your cars all lined up - but don't let the same entrance be used to soon after a car has entered - its no fair being 'backstabbed' by a bus. If a fleet of cars is all running more or less parrellel the game breaks down. However with random entrances staggered over a period of time part of the game becomes trying to get your cars together - which is really hard with other players around. Also random entrances by cars means all the players have their cars scattered all over the map - this leads to a situation where everyone is fighting everyone where as if you have 3 people in most games two players gang up on the third. Here victory conditions are important - ours where that a player was awarded 'scratch damage' if they hit an enemy car. Scratch damage was 10% of the value of a car. One also got 50% of the value of an enemy car if for a mobility kill (the car no longer moves on its own power) and 50% for a firepower kill (the car no longer has any functioning weapons). You could get both of these (say if the driver was killed). This encourages players not to hang back - you can be the last person standing and still lose if your opponent has earned more money.
Choosing which cars to enter in what order becomes a game in itself. We had rules for infantry as well - you can bring them on but they must come in mounted. They can prove effective if you can manage to get your troop transport to a good location - infantry is lightly armoured but tends to be hard to hit and lots of them with descent weaponry can make whole blocks 'no go zones' for anything smaller then a bus - but the vehicle carrying them is usually pretty vulnerable as so much whieght is taken up by the infantry - this is the one place I found where trailers shined.
Another interesting thing that was found was that the game really rewards prudent spending. With massive amounts of money players originally bout cars with the most expencive gadgetry - but thats usually a really bad idea. A lot of items simply are not worth the price when one could instead get another car. For example at first glance it seems that buying laser guided rockets is a great idea - rockets are powerful but they have low accuracy. But in reality this can nearly double the price of a car. I always buy a single car like this but its got a sepcific mission that I consider worth the price tag. Generally a player that spends their money more prudently has a big advantage.