How about no more comics, for me they don't add anything to the mag. As they say, if I wanted a comic, I'd buy a comic. Downer is really hard to follow, and the other two just aren't funny. I feel that they are not really what the old or new dungeon are/were about (adventures or DM tools). My opinion, just interested to see who agrees or disagrees with me.
Granted, I'm biased because I do Downer, but I think the magazines already suffer from being too dry and crunchy. Informal surveys seem to agree. The comics are fun, and have always been part of the formula, from Fineas Fingers to Wormy and even the generally lame (IMO) Dragon Mirth and Snarfquest.
That being said, I'm surprised by how many Snarfquest loyalists are out there. Humor is about as subjective as things get. For example, you're completely wrong. Zogonia and Mount Zogon are hilarious.
Ditch the two or three pages of comics ( a relatively small percentage of the mag) in favor of more what? Prestige classes? more spells? Yawn. I personally would prefer more "lifestyle" bits on collecting, history, comics etc. The rules these days are already dense and comprehensive. What the hobby needs, in order to flourish, are more fun, and dare I say, mainstream entry points to invite people into a fantastic game. The last thing D&D needs are more pages of bone-dry rules varients.
IMO, Zogonia is easily Dragon's best feature. Only the new creature feature may come close.
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I would hate to see comics go completely, but I have to offer my apologies to Kyle. I don't care much for Downer. I don't want to sound like an idiot (really, I'm not) but the comic is difficult to follow. Looking back, I see that it is mostly because I skipped a few episodes. But mostly it was that I don't really feel myself drawn into the story.
The humor seems a little....situational for my taste. For example, Part 18 begins with the line "These empty-headed undead make me very uncomfortable". The humor comes from the fact it is spoken by an illithid. Who like brains. Generally, it seems that most of the humor comes from playing on steretypes of a fantasy game. Considering how specialized that knowledge is, it lacks broad appeal. Downer is certainly not a gaming comic I can show my non-gaming friends.
Of course, this is in a comic intended for gamers, so there is a good chance that isn't a valid point anyway. With comics like Dragonmirth, I knew others who would find it funny. My non-gaming friends particularly enjoyed the one where a knight had killed Barney instead of a dragon. For a one-panel gag, Dragonmirth wasn't bad.
I suppose that my biggest criticism is that it can't really decide what it is. A comic doesn't have to be funny. A comic can tell the story of a band of D&D characters. Though those comics tend to fall flat - I haven't really read many decent such comics. This one attempts to do something similar - tell a fairly complex story - with a few gags to keep it from getting stale quickly. The real problem is that the only real gag is playing upon our expectations - spanish speaking gnomes, for instance.
Now, if it was gotten rid of, what would I like to see in its place? That's a good question. I like maps of mystery. I wouldn't mind an article that stitches three or four adventures into a continuos arc.
Maybe I should explain that. The adventures in Dungeon (barring adventure path) are stand alone. If someone can suggest a simple change to an adventure to allow me to use three or four together (like, changing the bad guy to a different bad guy, and provide the necessary stats) that would be great. I would get something like 2x or 3x more value from the magazine.
Still, I'd like to see comics, but I'd like to see some with a higher humor quotient. I generally like Zogonia or Mount Zogon - though they don't really take pages away from content. Every now and then a particular comic doesn't strike me as funny, but that is true for some people all of the time. Dungeon may be too dry, but there might be other ways to liven it up a bit.
MORE COMICS PLEASE!
I like downer. Alot. I like the art I like the characters. Pretty neat. I am hoping that there will by an article giving stats and info on the characters and items presented in the strip. Maybe if you added a little crunch to the strip more folks would be intrested?
However the best comics are Tony Mosleys. Zogonia (and to a lesser extent Mt Zogon) is absolutly hiliarious. I love it. "A deranged untrustworthy human" classic. Tony M writes his comic strips like me and my buddies play the game.
MORE COMICS PLEASE!
Granted, I'm biased because I do Downer, but I think the magazines already suffer from being too dry and crunchy. Informal surveys seem to agree. The comics are fun, and have always been part of the formula, from Fineas Fingers to Wormy and even the generally lame (IMO) Dragon Mirth and Snarfquest.
You seem to be lumping Dungeon in with Dragon (very different magazines). Dragon was/is a very broad magazine, with lots of different stuff (rules, fiction, game articles, and yes comics). Dungeon you get adventures.(Dungeon was/is very focused on adventures). I regularly buy/bought Dungeon because I knew that I would get 3-4 good adventures. I was never quite sure if there was going to be anything in Dragon I wanted to read so I didn't and still don't buy it regularly. I have no problem with comics in Dragon, becasue I don't buy it that much ;-)
That being said, I'm surprised by how many Snarfquest loyalists are out there. Humor is about as subjective as things get. For example, you're completely wrong. Zogonia and Mount Zogon are hilarious.
You are right humor is subjective, but I don't buy Dragon so it feels like Dungeon is getting all the reject comics from Dragon (Mount Zogon and The Portent).
Ditch the two or three pages of comics ( a relatively small percentage of the mag) in favor of more what? Prestige classes? more spells? Yawn. I personally would prefer more "lifestyle" bits on collecting, history, comics etc.
I'm guessing your confusing Dungeon and Dragon, please put all that stuff in Dragon but keep Dungeon focused what has made me buy every issue (all the way back to #1), ADVENTURES.
I don't mind having adventure components (maps, villians, I especially liked the terrain flavor text a couple of issues back) but the further it goes from adventures, which I can read, use, borrow from, get ideas of my own from, or just get caught up in imagining the scene, the less I like it.
Please keep Dungeon full of "wow what a cool idea", "thats a well designed, dramatic encounter" and "I can't wait to run that adventure for my players".
The rules these days are already dense and comprehensive. What the hobby needs, in order to flourish, are more fun, and dare I say, mainstream entry points to invite people into a fantastic game. The last thing D&D needs are more pages of bone-dry rules varients.
The hobby may need more mainstream points to get people in, but if gamers can't really enjoy and/or find these comics hard to follow and get into, how can you expect a non gamer to?
The hobby may need more mainstream points to get people in, but if gamers can't really enjoy and/or find these comics hard to follow and get into, how can you expect a non gamer to?
I'm 28, and I've been playing D&D for about 22 years now. My first game was run by my dad for my brother and I. The material I've created for discarded campaign worlds would fill a shelf. I've created literally hundreds of characters, dozens of dungeons, scores of adventures, probably a thousand or more non-statted NPCs, at least forty fully-detailed campaign towns, reams of spells, stacks of unique magical items, and so on. And I love the comics. :-) Just thought I'd point out that you don't speak for all gamers any more than I do. We're a pretty broad, diverse group, and Paizo's trying to make sure that their magazines appeal to as many of us as possible.
That said, Downer (IMO) sucks. Too jumpy. I can't follow from one panel to the next what's going on (let alone from month to month). It might be better in a larger format, ie more than two pages per month, but I'd hate to see more of Dungeon devoted to it. The writing's just not suited to the format. Sorry Kyle. The art's quite lovely though.
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They might bring "knights of the dinner table" back for those who are gamers. But still why don't they create a serial comic strip about the iconic DnD heroes, esp. those recently created in Dungeon magazine instead of coming up with humor. Nodwick,shopkeep? by kovalic,mt.zogon and zogonia are enough humor not to add anymore.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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One reason we don't do that is that it's really, really difficult to tell a cohesive story in two pages delivered monthly. That means it takes a year to convey the same amount of story you might find in your average comic book.
The solution might be to run a four-page comic, but then you've got to deal with all the readers who want more adventures on every page.
Such is the balancing act of my life. :)
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
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As a cartoonist myself, I have always liked Dragon and Dungeon's comics, especially Wormy, KOTDT and more recently Zogonia, which is closer to my own artistic style. They are usually the first thing I read in the magazine after a brief browse thru of the articles. Downer is a good strip that is trying to recapture the Wormy-vibe but is a little too busy IMO. There are too many characters to keep track of at once besides Downer himself. That would be the one thing I'd change.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I love the DEX belt buckle, myself.
Downer is about to go on a quest to the surface world in which he will take only a small handful of his associates. We're trying to make the series a little more episodic while focusing on a core of characters. Others will return over a long period of time.
I'd be curious to hear which characters people would like to see accompany Downer on this quest.
I know Downer is not to everyone's taste, but I like it, and it's staying as long as I am.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
I really enjoy the comics. They add life and charm to a hobby that often takes itself far too seriously. Wormy was more memorable than 80% of the stuff I've ever read in Dragon. Downer has very interesting artwork and perfectly conveys the feeling of a live world, gushing with misfits and personal drama. Also, the Underdark is a great setting, and I'm happy it's been portrayed so subversively by Kyle. Very original and much snappier than the cliched "I'm a brooding goth dark elf" boilerplate that infests most novels. Comics are a great distraction from the wargame mentality that oftimes suffocates RPG books. Keep it up!
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Man I'm drawing a blank on one of Aaron Williams comics before Nodwick about a young wizard... I just remember an episode with giants batting a poor soul over a mountain saying "Go for Distance, Go for Distance!!!"
Keep the comics. D&D players are Comic readers, Video game players, movie watchers, etc, etc... I think the majority of us like whats going on in Dungeon.
I love the comics, never let them go. Long live Downer.
That said, does anyone get "The Portent"? I feel like i'm missing something, or maybe it's missing something. Anyway, not to fond of that one.
Severion