zesban's page

zesban, I did not read everyone else's posts, and just a couple of things. I too am a completionist and have also found some of the aftermarket pricing a bit absurd. Now, with that out of the way, I found a Ranzak on ebay for under $5 with shipping. I also saw the $45 Ranzak. Being an avid ebayer the one thing I will point out is waiting for the right price at the right time (this is a long process for some items). On to the next thing, I feel that Paizo wants to encourage people to get involved by subscribing to get the promos when the release, an incentive for those direct supporters. Although, I do feel your pain, and it hurts. I also do not subscribe and have had this thought: Now that RotR and S&S is out of the way, I think that with Drivethru they could (hopefully, fingers crossed... I'll beg if necessary)create a bundle of RotR promos and S&S promos (separately of course) for a reasonable price ($2 a card maybe, hell, with the after market pricing I'd settle for $5 a card). Possibly we could rally for such possibility. If this does happen (either the rally or the card bundle for purchase) I am on board.

I find this solution both elegant and easy to implement. I say +1.

Further, they could replace the top left logo with a simple Season 1, or something, to mark it as different from the Promos people were rewarded with for attending events or subscribing. The rarity and exclusivity of those would then be maintained, Paizo would have no overhead, gamers would have access to additional components, and just about everyone would come out ahead.

Otherwise, I find this topic settled, or at least to my content. We've seen a response from a Paizo rep, which did not address this topic at all but was to break up a scuffle threatening to take the thread off topic. That tells me that the feedback has been heard and that what will happen, will happen. I doubt we'll see a response here on this actual topic, and if anything is going to change, it will just be announced when it does.

Please feel free to continue to discuss if you'd like to share your thoughts or what have you. I'll keep reading, but I'm satisfied with what I've seen and will probably not respond to this thread again.

- Zesban

Zesban, you say they'd make more money, but you forget one very important piece.

What profit they gain from selling the cards, they lose in subscribers. If subscribing only gives a card that looks different but is functionally identical to something they can easily get elsewhere, tons of people would go to other places that are cheaper. When Paizo sells a product at my FLGS, the store has to make a profit so selling at the same cost as Paizo means Paizo makes more selling it direct to me. That is going to make more money than selling promos to anyone that wants them (unless of course they sell them at the ripoff prices MyFly apparently lists them for).

The subscription isn't a method to make maximum profit. It's a method to keep customers on a product by giving them a benefit most will want - a gameplay option you can't get elsewhere. A special look on a card is not going to pull remotely close to as many subscribers.

Perhaps. Without knowing the specifics of the margin lost to sales through local stores, what their overhead would be, what they could reasonably sell the Promo packs for, and so on it's hard to say if this statement is true or not.

If the subscription nets them an extra $10 in profit, then selling the promo pack at a profit of $12 may be approachable, certainly cheaper than the $75+ one would spend on the secondary market.

But these are numbers I don't have.

Also, one can't assume that all subscribers subscribe solely for the benefit of the Promos, rather than brand loyalty, convenience, etc... And even for those that do subscribe for the Promos, they could continue to offer the Promos bundled with the subscription, "A $20 savings, and exclusive versions!" as a way of continuing to add value to the subscriptions and drive subscribers.

These are not insurmountable problems. And there is opportunity there still.

- Zesban

zesban wrote:

skizzerz wrote:

zesban wrote:

All I'm asking for is the ability to *purchase* (a lot of people seem to be confused, thinking I'm asking for these for free, which I am not) the same gameplay options as other players.

Which you can already do, by subscribing to the Card Game here. There are still plenty of other ways to support your FLGS besides buying all of your Adventure Decks there -- buy the base set there and then subscribe only for the Add-on deck and the ADs (a common tactic used here), buy snacks and drinks while gaming there, branch out into other games, etc.

This feedback applies to acquiring previous cards, not current cards.

And I'm betting if you asked your FLGS owner if your subscribing to Paizo doesn't affect their business they'd look at you with a silly face.

And my local stores know that I subscribe so that I'm guaranteed the promos that come with the set. But like skizzerz said, I bought my base set and my accessories from the local store(s) instead of getting my discount through Paizo. I buy my other games from them instead of going on to CoolStuff or Amazon. I support my stores.

And as far as previously released promos, it goes back to the "entitlement" attitude. That they should stock all the promos going back to the beginning of Rise of the Runelords? That's where you lose me. I don't feel that any company should need to do that. That they should have to reprint promos. That's silly.

There is no "entitlement" here. If Paizo chooses not to make more money by printing and selling new cards, because they believe it's somehow increasing Paizo's value, it's their prerogative.

But they should know that there is a market waiting for them if they did choose to sell these Promos, maybe under a re-release pack that makes them different from the originals. That way they can keep the collector's value people happy and create a new product for generating revenue.

This *whole* thing about wanting to spend more money, directly with the producer, for content that is obviously desirable. This would seem to be a way better solution than leaving a secondary market to crop up where values are completely out of control, and players spend their budgets on this secondary market rather than on supporting either a FLGS or Paizo. But that seems to ruffle people's feathers, for whatever reason.

And you and I will just have to agree to disagree about where best to spend money to support local gaming. I don't know about your town, but mine has lost 5 such stores in the past 2 years alone. I wanna give mine every chance I can.

But this conversation doesn't really amount to a hill of beans if it goes entirely unnoticed by anyone at Paizo. So really it's up to them. If they see this feedback, this conversation, and choose to act on it that's up to them. If they choose not to act on it, that's also up to them. But they should know about it at least. That's the point.

- Zesban

Hey All,

I wanna jump in and add that this Promo card strategy is brutal to us completionists.

I just got done dropping nearly $150 to pick up the promo cards to nearly complete out the sets. And I'm still looking for a Goblin Lockpick...

This is insane. I can understand the allure of inciting interest in your product, but all these cards have done is leave holes in collections for many people in terms of game play.

If the idea is reward people for their loyalty for doing things like subscribing and what have you, fine, print a special edition of the card, with no unique powers or rules. Then sell a non-special edition version to those of us who'd like to have those cards to complete the game.

And as for rewarding subscribers in the first place, I'm glad you've found a way to build recurring revenue, but please try to consider those of us who want to see our local hobby stores stay in business and so shop *there* to support *them* while still supporting *you* by purchasing *your* products!

All I'm saying is that there are smarter ways to generate excitement and create product interest than by penalizing completionist gamers and forcing into existence an aftermarket where price gouging is the norm.

And if you don't believe that aftermarket exists please refer to the Ranzak pack currently listed at $46 on eBay -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pathfinder-Adventure-Card-Game-Skull-and-Shackles-R ANZAK-Promo-Expansion-Bonus-/121668196561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=it em1c53fd58d1

That's practically the price of a base set for a singular character! And you better believe that the same will happen with Ekkie!

- Zesban

Unfortunately I cannot go back and remove this post. Please consider this a "courtesy removal".

- Zesban

I'm cross posting from here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sb4h?Promo-Cards#32), but I'm hoping to bring some attention to this...

Hey All,

I wanna jump in and add that this Promo card strategy is brutal to us completionists.

I just got done dropping nearly $150 to pick up the promo cards to nearly complete out the sets. And I'm still looking for a Goblin Lockpick...

This is insane. I can understand the allure of inciting interest in your product, but all these cards have done is leave holes in collections for many people in terms of game play.

If the idea is reward people for their loyalty for doing things like subscribing and what have you, fine, print a special edition of the card, with no unique powers or rules. Then sell a non-special edition version to those of us who'd like to have those cards to complete the game.

And as for rewarding subscribers in the first place, I'm glad you've found a way to build recurring revenue, but please try to consider those of us who want to see our local hobby stores stay in business and so shop *there* to support *them* while still supporting *you* by purchasing *your* products!

All I'm saying is that there are smarter ways to generate excitement and create product interest than by penalizing completionist gamers and forcing into existence an aftermarket where price gouging is the norm.

And if you don't believe that aftermarket exists please refer to the Ranzak pack currently listed at $46 on eBay -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pathfinder-Adventure-Card-Game-Skull-and-Shackles-R ANZAK-Promo-Expansion-Bonus-/121668196561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=it em1c53fd58d1

That's practically the price of a base set for a singular character! And you better believe that the same will happen with Ekkie!

- Zesban

Unfortunately I cannot go back and remove this post. Please consider this a "courtesy removal".

- Zesban

zesban wrote:

All I'm asking for is the ability to *purchase* (a lot of people seem to be confused, thinking I'm asking for these for free, which I am not) the same gameplay options as other players.

Which you can already do, by subscribing to the Card Game here. There are still plenty of other ways to support your FLGS besides buying all of your Adventure Decks there -- buy the base set there and then subscribe only for the Add-on deck and the ADs (a common tactic used here), buy snacks and drinks while gaming there, branch out into other games, etc.

This feedback applies to acquiring previous cards, not current cards.

And I'm betting if you asked your FLGS owner if your subscribing to Paizo doesn't affect their business they'd look at you with a silly face.

First off, any vitriol will be ignored as usual internet trolling.

If you can't respond without resorting to ad hominem I'm not interested in discussing this with you. In fact, the people I'm almost exclusively interested in conversing with are those at Paizo, who may be interested in what *each* of their customers has to say.

This post was made here because Paizo reps tend to be very active here, but *constructive* community input is also welcomed. Thank you to all those who have participated in this conversation with cool heads and constructive thoughts.

Second, I'm in no way arguing against exclusive *content*. Special art versions, foil versions, limited edition numbered prints, signed copies, etc.. None of these affect the playability of the game. A company should constantly be looking for ways to reward its loyal customers. This generates word of mouth marketing, creates additional value in the product, and respects those who have contributed to its success.

But what we have here are exclusive game rules or gameplay options. That is what I'd like to see changed! All I'm asking for is the ability to *purchase* (a lot of people seem to be confused, thinking I'm asking for these for free, which I am not) the same gameplay options as other players.

And yes, I am aware of proxying, either through my own tokens or using very good facsimiles such as available through Drive Thru, and where I'm not violating Paizo's intellectual property rights I can and may do so. But as a customer I find it inconvenient at best, and against my and Paizo's interests at worst, that I cannot provide further *monetary* support and receive additional gameplay options through legitimate channels, especially when those gameplay options have already been made available to other players.

What I found especially surprising upon returning to this thread is how a number of zealous apologists poured out of the woodwork to attack me and defend against an idea that seems misconstrued or outright in contradiction to what I was proposing. Shocking! Or maybe not, this is the internet...

Regardless, my point boils down to one simple statement - "DANG IT PAIZO! TAKE MY MONEY!"

If not, there are people more than happy to profit from your hard work. And a shame that is, that they are and you're not. Paizo can rectify this, or not. But they should at least *know* that there are people like myself that feel this way about their current strategy. And they could be making *even* more money off of those people like me!

- Zesban

This was originally a response to another thread but as I've considered it I really want it to be its own thread. I'll remove those responses from those other threads if asked...

Hey All,

I wanna jump in (about promo cards) and add that this Promo card strategy is brutal to us completionists.

I just got done dropping nearly $150 to pick up the promo cards to nearly complete out the sets. And I'm still looking for a Goblin Lockpick...

This is insane. I can understand the allure of inciting interest in your product, but all these cards have done is leave holes in collections for many people in terms of game play.

If the idea is reward people for their loyalty for doing things like subscribing and what have you, fine, print a special edition of the card, with no unique powers or rules. Then sell a non-special edition version to those of us who'd like to have those cards to complete the game.

And as for rewarding subscribers in the first place, I'm glad you've found a way to build recurring revenue, but please try to consider those of us who want to see our local hobby stores stay in business and so shop *there* to support *them* while still supporting *you* by purchasing *your* products!

All I'm saying is that there are smarter ways to generate excitement and create product interest than by penalizing completionist gamers and forcing into existence an aftermarket where price gouging is the norm.

And if you don't believe that aftermarket exists please refer to the Ranzak pack currently listed at $46 on eBay -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pathfinder-Adventure-Card-Game-Skull-and-Shackles-R ANZAK-Promo-Expansion-Bonus-/121668196561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=it em1c53fd58d1

That's practically the price of a base set for a singular character! And you better believe that the same will happen with Ekkie!

- Zesban

I'm going to try again with my retailer as well to see if, armed with the specific product code, I can make some progress.

Or maybe Customer Service will come through. =)

But if they'd just add a $5 pack to the store it'd save us all some time and reimburse them for the logistical cost...

I'm cross posting from here(http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sdqf?Purchase-The-Land-of-the-Blind-Stand -Alone) and also sent an email to customer.service@paizo.com as suggested but I want to make sure I exhaust all options -

Greetings,

This is a request to make the "The Land of the Blind" correction pack available as a stand alone purchase as my retailer did not have any of these packs available when I purchased the Island of Empty Eyes Adventure Deck from them.

Please advise if this is at all possible or if there is another way to acquire the correction pack without having to spend another $20 for the same Adventure Deck.

Thanks,
Zesban

Thanks! Email sent!

I'm cross posting from here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sb4h?Promo-Cards#32), but I'm hoping to bring some attention to this...

Hey All,

I wanna jump in and add that this Promo card strategy is brutal to us completionists.

I just got done dropping nearly $150 to pick up the promo cards to nearly complete out the sets. And I'm still looking for a Goblin Lockpick...

This is insane. I can understand the allure of inciting interest in your product, but all these cards have done is leave holes in collections for many people in terms of game play.

If the idea is reward people for their loyalty for doing things like subscribing and what have you, fine, print a special edition of the card, with no unique powers or rules. Then sell a non-special edition version to those of us who'd like to have those cards to complete the game.

And as for rewarding subscribers in the first place, I'm glad you've found a way to build recurring revenue, but please try to consider those of us who want to see our local hobby stores stay in business and so shop *there* to support *them* while still supporting *you* by purchasing *your* products!

All I'm saying is that there are smarter ways to generate excitement and create product interest than by penalizing completionist gamers and forcing into existence an aftermarket where price gouging is the norm.

And if you don't believe that aftermarket exists please refer to the Ranzak pack currently listed at $46 on eBay -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pathfinder-Adventure-Card-Game-Skull-and-Shackles-R ANZAK-Promo-Expansion-Bonus-/121668196561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=it em1c53fd58d1

That's practically the price of a base set for a singular character! And you better believe that the same will happen with Ekkie!

- Zesban

Hey All,

I wanna jump in and add that this Promo card strategy is brutal to us completionists.

I just got done dropping nearly $150 to pick up the promo cards to nearly complete out the sets. And I'm still looking for a Goblin Lockpick...

This is insane. I can understand the allure of inciting interest in your product, but all these cards have done is leave holes in collections for many people in terms of game play.

If the idea is reward people for their loyalty for doing things like subscribing and what have you, fine, print a special edition of the card, with no unique powers or rules. Then sell a non-special edition version to those of us who'd like to have those cards to complete the game.

And as for rewarding subscribers in the first place, I'm glad you've found a way to build recurring revenue, but please try to consider those of us who want to see our local hobby stores stay in business and so shop *there* to support *them* while still supporting *you* by purchasing *your* products!

All I'm saying is that there are smarter ways to generate excitement and create product interest than by penalizing completionist gamers and forcing into existence an aftermarket where price gouging is the norm.

And if you don't believe that aftermarket exists please refer to the Ranzak pack currently listed at $46 on eBay -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pathfinder-Adventure-Card-Game-Skull-and-Shackles-R ANZAK-Promo-Expansion-Bonus-/121668196561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=it em1c53fd58d1

That's practically the price of a base set for a singular character! And you better believe that the same will happen with Ekkie!

- Zesban

Greetings,

This is a request to make the "The Land of the Blind" correction pack available as a stand alone purchase as my retailer did not have any of these packs available when I purchased the Island of Empty Eyes Adventure Deck from them.

Please advise if this is at all possible or if there is another way to acquire the correction pack without having to spend another $20 for the same Adventure Deck.

Thanks,
Zesban