Promo Cards are Brutal! So, so, so Brutal!


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion

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This was originally a response to another thread but as I've considered it I really want it to be its own thread. I'll remove those responses from those other threads if asked...

Hey All,

I wanna jump in (about promo cards) and add that this Promo card strategy is brutal to us completionists.

I just got done dropping nearly $150 to pick up the promo cards to nearly complete out the sets. And I'm still looking for a Goblin Lockpick...

This is insane. I can understand the allure of inciting interest in your product, but all these cards have done is leave holes in collections for many people in terms of game play.

If the idea is reward people for their loyalty for doing things like subscribing and what have you, fine, print a special edition of the card, with no unique powers or rules. Then sell a non-special edition version to those of us who'd like to have those cards to complete the game.

And as for rewarding subscribers in the first place, I'm glad you've found a way to build recurring revenue, but please try to consider those of us who want to see our local hobby stores stay in business and so shop *there* to support *them* while still supporting *you* by purchasing *your* products!

All I'm saying is that there are smarter ways to generate excitement and create product interest than by penalizing completionist gamers and forcing into existence an aftermarket where price gouging is the norm.

And if you don't believe that aftermarket exists please refer to the Ranzak pack currently listed at $46 on eBay -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pathfinder-Adventure-Card-Game-Skull-and-Shackles-R ANZAK-Promo-Expansion-Bonus-/121668196561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=it em1c53fd58d1

That's practically the price of a base set for a singular character! And you better believe that the same will happen with Ekkie!

- Zesban


If you're buying the sets/decks close to release, many hobby stores get the promo cards to distribute with them. Otherwise you either have to accept not getting everything or pay (in time and/or money) tracking down those extra cards. Welcome to promo items.

As for Ranzak, Paizo sells him for $4 and there are other eBay listings at around $6. Also, he's included in the PACG S&S character sheets that you can download for free. Ekkie's character sheet is also available for free download. It's nice that they'll be available for folks to use, regardless of whether they have the cards.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Um, Ranzaks are still available in the online store.

Ekkies will also be available in the store. (I gave a crapton of them out this weekend, cause free RPG day and being a volunteer and stuff.)

The stores _do_ get the promos. I actually went to my FLGS this week and I mentioned I was playing the PACG while buying some sleeves and they threw a ton of old promos in my order.


Maybe Ranzak wasn't the best example from the OP, but many promos are expensive and/or almost impossible to find.

Also, those are often very unique and/or more powerfull compared to regular cards in the sets.

If I recall correctly, it was mentioned that the RotR promos will be available in the Paizo store sometime after the set is finished, but it sems the idea have been abandoned.

I can live without the promos, but I understand the fustration.

(btw, I haven't seen asingle promo in local stores or with my Bookdepository orders)


Many stores know about the price of promo cards and the do not give them away. instead they sell them somewhat later on ebay.

Getting Promo is also really difficult when you start on the game later.
Then you can buy the game and the sets but if you like to get a complete set you have no other chance to look on ebay.


Moghediena wrote:

Many stores know about the price of promo cards and the do not give them away. instead they sell them somewhat later on ebay.

Getting Promo is also really difficult when you start on the game later.
Then you can buy the game and the sets but if you like to get a complete set you have no other chance to look on ebay.

I think any FLGS that sells their promos for profit is a shop you don't need to worry about being loyal to, and can just buy direct from Paizo (/wherever else is cheaper) in good conscience.

It is a pain that not all the Promos are available via local shops, and that so many of them are so good (Poog of Zarongel and Mogmurch are still 2 of my all-time favourite cards in this game) but at the end of the day, you still have a playable game without all the promos - nobody's forcing you to spend crazy sums on Ebay to get them (and if people weren't prepared to pay that much, there wouldn't be many people selling them at that price, momentarily leaving aside the Ranzak aberration above)


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Does Myfly have a second account?

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Also (to the original poster) if you post a response in one thread to complain about something, don't start another thread just to make a point.

As people have stated here, promos were and a available for free at local stores. Ranzak and Ekkie were free by participating in Free RPG day. My local store still has all the promos from Rise of the Runelords to Wrath of the Righteous products because they got them from the distributor. If yours hasn't then they need to complain to their distributor. Don't blame Paizo. If you really want Ranzak and Ekkie after them being free, you can get them from Paizo.com.

Quit blaming Paizo for putting out promos that you find difficult to collect. That's on you, not them.

Promos are not required to play the game. You're making it a requirement. If your local store doesn't have the promos, find out why. If you're going to drop $150 to complete your set of promos, that's on you.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

As I was driving in to the office, this post pissed me off more and more.

I'm a completist as well. And I've gone back after a product has been out for a while and collected all the cards and the promos. I know where the OP is coming from. But the one thing I never did was b*$&% to the company that made the product.

Shame on you! Shame on your complaining that you have to put out extra money to complete a game you are enjoying. Shame on you for b#$$&ing about how much you're spending above and beyond the required product to play the game.

Have I spent way too much to get promos for games after the fact, yes! But that's on me. And this is on you! If you are going to spend ten times the cost of an item you can get from the company's website, that's on you and you'd be foolish to do so. But don't b*@~* to the company for that. That's your fault. If I didn't go to FRPG day and didn't get Ranzak last year or Ekkie this year, that's on me. And that's on you!

You don't want to spend $150 on promos, then don't. And if you didn't know that distributors are supposed to hand out promos to your retail stores, you can easily find the info here on the messageboards which you decided to post three times about this subject. We talk about everything on these boards about the game from distribution to rules to homebrew stuff to organized play.

So instead of posting your complaint on three different posts, why didn't you try to find out what the boards had about the promos and find out why your local store didn't carry them when you bought the products that should have had the promos with them.

- An irate Dwarven ranger


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Much like the OP, I was having a similar issue finding promos. When I eventually found them (on ebay or where ever), often they were at a premium.

I got a subscription ...problem solved.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I want to know what zesban thinks after finding out that Ranzak is available at this site for $4 compared to his $46 complaint.

I'm this close "." to asking him on all the threads he necro'd just to get an answer, but nah.


Maybe you guys should stop concentrating on Ranzak.

The problem is with the promos which are unavilable on the site. If a new player starts with RotR or S&S he can't get the promos from Paizo, only from e-bay for ridicolous prices.

And these are very exclusive cards, not available in any other way.

In comparison for example Mage Wars : the promos are alternate art cards, and/or cards which are coming in the next set. So even if you don't get the promos, on the gameplay side you didn't lost anything.

In PACG many powerfull boons are promo exclusive.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Zoltán Mészáros wrote:
In PACG many powerfull boons are promo exclusive.

Wait, did I miss something?


The promos are fun, and I get why completionists obese over them. But as a general rule, the boons are more 'fun' than powerful. (Poog being the biggest exception)


This is just an example of "If I buy something from your company, they owe me something." This has been a consistent mind set that's become stronger as time has progressed. I arrived halfway thru Runeloards, saw that there were promo cards and signed up for a sub, then after thatI didn't feel like the company owed me anything. I just missed out on those previous promo's. However, now I have the great opportunity to encounter the Owlbertrous, and sigh. Anyway, moral of this is, Paizo doesn't owe you the promo's, sign up for a subscription and you'll receive them as an added bonus! Oh, and it's a lot cheaper.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Zoltán Mészáros wrote:

Maybe you guys should stop concentrating on Ranzak.

The problem is with the promos which are unavilable on the site. If a new player starts with RotR or S&S he can't get the promos from Paizo, only from e-bay for ridicolous prices.

And these are very exclusive cards, not available in any other way.

In comparison for example Mage Wars : the promos are alternate art cards, and/or cards which are coming in the next set. So even if you don't get the promos, on the gameplay side you didn't lost anything.

In PACG many powerfull boons are promo exclusive.

So as consumers that come late to the game, they're entitled to have access to all the promos from the beginning of the game sets?

This is some really seriously messed up thinking. #1 Promos are not required to play the game. #2 Companies don't have to placate consumers because of compulsive behavior. I already stated that I'm one of you. But I gotta say that these conversations about promos and Paizo are really absurd. Paizo provides way better access to promos than a ton of other companies. I have had to track down countless promos from other games because I needed "everything". And that was eBay and other sites online. A promo that was handed out for free cost me $35+ in many cases.

So hearing that people want Paizo to do something about this? They have ... they have provided a subscription service that guarantees you access to the promos they will release. They send promos to distributors. They provides promos at events like FRPG Day. If you start playing the game in the middle of S&S and want everything that was printed beforehand, then you need to face the facts that you'll spend extra to get everything. Paizo doesn't owe you that.

You want to support your local gaming store? I do. I have a subscription for the game that started with the Add-On deck and runs with the Adventure decks. I bought the base set and all my accessories (except card sleeves) locally for Wrath. I buy my other games from my local stores. But I want my promos just like you guys so I have that subscription.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I agree totally with Theryon. Compare the availability of Paizo promos to, say, Steve Jackson Games' Munchkin promos. You've got a LOT more opportunities as a completionist here than you do there. It's time to end the complaints about promo availability. No one is forcing you to buy the promos.


The promos are the right strategy...

... Just *one* promo is easy, but *five* and overseas - I can tell you - why r u complaining?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You still don't get it that you don't need more than one of each promo card. They're not designed for more than one of them in a game. The Guide to Organized Play even spells it out:

Guide to Pathfinder Adventure Card Guild Organized Play wrote:
Organizers may add up to 12 promo cards to the game box, but no more than than one copy of any one card.

That rule even applies to the Blessing of Zogmugot, even if subscribers got five copies of it.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Myfly joins the battle!!


For the battle check:
I simply roll a 20 on the novel introduced big D20!
Zaister looses ... Sorry!
Not only the promo cards are brutal, but also the big die!
There is nothing more to say ;-)
He has to cope with his defeat and move on ...

Better luck next time :-)))


zesban wrote:

This was originally a response to another thread but as I've considered it I really want it to be its own thread. I'll remove those responses from those other threads if asked...

SNIP

- Zesban

MOST of the promo cards are SPECIAL and LIMITED TIME and availablility. They are a GIFT to the people that subscribe or buy the product early and get involved at their FLGS or attend a convention. That's if their FLGS carries the promos, that's up to them and their distro, not Paizo.

THE PROMOS ARE NOT REQUIRED. read it again THE PROMOS ARE NOT REQUIRED. Why on Earth would a card that's called a PROMO be available at all times forever? That goes against the very definition of a PROMO in this industry.

Most of the time there's much better stuff in the later Adventure Decks than the Promo's anyway. They are just there to add some fun. And since there's so few of them, running across them is difficult.

If you want the promos, you're going to have to scrounge like everyone else does. I paid $20/25 a piece for the first two because I bought my RoTR at an FLGS and didn't even realize there was a subscription that came with promo cards. I subscribed for AD2 onward after that. Like Theryon said, MY BAD.


Zaister wrote:
You still don't get it that you don't need more than one of each promo card. They're not designed for more than one of them in a game. The Guide to Organized Play even spells it out:
Guide to Pathfinder Adventure Card Guild Organized Play wrote:
Organizers may add up to 12 promo cards to the game box, but no more than than one copy of any one card.
That rule even applies to the Blessing of Zogmugot, even if subscribers got five copies of it.

I think I figured it out..

MyFly the business man!

Also.. not sure if calling the Plunder Die a PROMO is actually correct, Paizo never used it to promo anything..


hfm wrote:
zesban wrote:

This was originally a response to another thread but as I've considered it I really want it to be its own thread. I'll remove those responses from those other threads if asked...

SNIP

- Zesban

Most of the time there's much better stuff in the later Adventure Decks than the Promo's anyway. They are just there to add some fun. And since there's so few of them, running across them is difficult.

Why not adding 5 promos each ;-) this helps to face them more often.

Paizo loves to sell multiple subscriptions!
Also join in for another quintible sub!

I encourge you hereby.

All the businessman ;-)

PS: if I sell 20 quintible subscription here in the forum, i will get one iconic hero promo card as a reward. It is an item: a crown for the quintible sub king ;-) believe it or not. Owner trait will say Myfly. We will see what Mike will come up with regarding the card text.


Does anybody join in besides Edward, Tim, Niklas and Christine?

Still 16 to go ....


I am really annoyed by some people's greedyness (yes I mean you if the show fits).

Let me start off with a question: After my niece went to the dentist, she got a little toy. Am I entitled to a toy after going to that dentist?

For all of you who simply do not get what a promo card is:

These promotional items that enhance the customers subjective value of the product are used to increase the sales of the product. The exclusive promotional items are meant to increase the direct sale (circumventing the distributors) and therefore increasing the profit margin on the product. Not establishing a longterm availabilty directs the customer to purchase the product in a non fixed timeframe in which availability seems (subjectively) secured. Any further considerations, like increased resale values, mistaking the promotional items as collectibles, or perceiving the product as worthless without these promotional items are subject to the customers perception and not neccessarily intended by the producer.

And for those promo cards to be the most powerful stuff: Michael you do realize that Temptation OF The Big Die let's you add ad20 to your check at the cost of burying 1d20 cards. It's a gamble. It's not neccessarily more powerful, but definitely making the game more interesting. Give me another example please.

The "promo die" can actually work as promoting the game: If encountered on it's own on ebay or maybe some other shop, it can raise awarenaess of the game. Although it is a weird situation that this item was created by a customer... basically it's a free advertisment for Paizo or you could say priceless.

Pizo likes to sell multiple subscriptions: Duh! The subscription itself is a tool of customer connectivity to establish sales over a determined timeframe. Although the subscriptions at Paizo can be cancelled anytime, most customers will wait until a certain set of items is completed, like an adventure path. The free PDF you get when you have a hardcover subscription? It's not meant to be nice; again it's meant to tie you to Paizo instead of having you buy somewhere else. Just because something comes free of charge it is neither a gift nor does it come without a cost. If you want an exclusive promotional item, you cannot wait until the market has regulated the price of the product.

And that is why this war between exclusive owners and exclusive wanters will go on forever: One side feels entitled to have all available content, while the other feels entitled to their remuneration for their loyalty.

If Paizo would decide to de-exlusive those promotional items, then they would lose the trust of their loyal customers. And that is why they won't.

The only thing I wonder, is why they do not make exclusive contracts with overseas distributors. Right now the exclusives work for a small number of overseas customers. But I think they could increase the profit margin by licensing a European seller to offer the same subscription + exclusive model to customers. Of course the margin with the existing customers will be smaller (since they have a middle man) but even with the apropiate licensing fee the final price should be lower due to overseas shipment being out of the equasion. That will attract more customers to this model. But I guess it all hangs on the data for those overseas markets.

If Paizo should ever consider such a thing they should choose a strong business partner... I was just thinking of Ulisses who are not capable of promoting PAKS: Unter Piraten before they have it in their store.
They are actively creating a negative product awareness and in my opinion not doing any good to the brand Pathfinder.


Michael Klaus wrote:


The only thing I wonder, is why they do not make exclusive contracts with overseas distributors. Right now the exclusives work for a small number of overseas customers. But I think they could increase the profit margin by licensing a European seller to offer the same subscription + exclusive model to customers. Of course the margin with the existing customers will be smaller (since they have a middle man) but even with the apropiate licensing fee the final price should be lower due to overseas shipment being out of the equasion. That will attract more customers to this model. But I guess it all hangs on the data for those overseas markets.

I already proposed this idea to VIC. Or even a European warehouse...

But it is not intheir cards in 2015.

Paizo could attract far more European gamers by shipping EU-friendly from within the EU.
Customers would save on shippig costs and VAT and import tax. Some friends of mine would subscribe right away for a Pathfinder Battles subscription.

Asking in German game stores for WizKids products, the store owners are just rolling their eyes. Their seems to be some logistical problem. Nobody wants to order WizKids stuff such as the Iconic Heroes Boxes for PACG. Even Ulisses doesnt have it iin their store... Such as Pathfinder Battles.

So there is a real oversea bottleneck.

I dont get it why Ulisses cant fulfill a 100% Paizo subscription. Paizo does ship them monthly the AD, but without Convention and Subscription-exclusive promos. This annoys me A LOT!!! It could be a way to lower oversea shipping and taxes! The more Paizo stuff you buy the more positively affect the buying behavior.

Come on Paizo!
Make us Europeans happy!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Myfly wrote:
Make us Europeans happy!

Well, I am happy so don't speak for me please

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
OnkelZorni wrote:
Myfly wrote:
Make us Europeans happy!
Well, I am happy so don't speak for me please

It's okay, he has a tendency to speak for all of us ... which usually gets us into an argument.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
OnkelZorni wrote:
Myfly wrote:
Make us Europeans happy!
Well, I am happy so don't speak for me please
It's okay, he has a tendency to speak for all of us ... which usually gets us into an argument.

I know, usually I'm sitting here with popcorn reading that stuff...


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

He also still doesn't understand that someone still will have to pay for the shipping and customs fees. If it's not the end customer directly, it'll be the European distributor, who will raise the prices accordingly. So in the end, the end customer will have to pay for those fees either way. And that's not even figuring in that the distributor isn't likely to do this for free out of the goodness of their heart.

But I might as well talk to a wall.


First off, any vitriol will be ignored as usual internet trolling.

If you can't respond without resorting to ad hominem I'm not interested in discussing this with you. In fact, the people I'm almost exclusively interested in conversing with are those at Paizo, who may be interested in what *each* of their customers has to say.

This post was made here because Paizo reps tend to be very active here, but *constructive* community input is also welcomed. Thank you to all those who have participated in this conversation with cool heads and constructive thoughts.

Second, I'm in no way arguing against exclusive *content*. Special art versions, foil versions, limited edition numbered prints, signed copies, etc.. None of these affect the playability of the game. A company should constantly be looking for ways to reward its loyal customers. This generates word of mouth marketing, creates additional value in the product, and respects those who have contributed to its success.

But what we have here are exclusive game rules or gameplay options. That is what I'd like to see changed! All I'm asking for is the ability to *purchase* (a lot of people seem to be confused, thinking I'm asking for these for free, which I am not) the same gameplay options as other players.

And yes, I am aware of proxying, either through my own tokens or using very good facsimiles such as available through Drive Thru, and where I'm not violating Paizo's intellectual property rights I can and may do so. But as a customer I find it inconvenient at best, and against my and Paizo's interests at worst, that I cannot provide further *monetary* support and receive additional gameplay options through legitimate channels, especially when those gameplay options have already been made available to other players.

What I found especially surprising upon returning to this thread is how a number of zealous apologists poured out of the woodwork to attack me and defend against an idea that seems misconstrued or outright in contradiction to what I was proposing. Shocking! Or maybe not, this is the internet...

Regardless, my point boils down to one simple statement - "DANG IT PAIZO! TAKE MY MONEY!"

If not, there are people more than happy to profit from your hard work. And a shame that is, that they are and you're not. Paizo can rectify this, or not. But they should at least *know* that there are people like myself that feel this way about their current strategy. And they could be making *even* more money off of those people like me!

- Zesban


Paizo uses promos as an incentive for subscribers. If Paizo sold the promos seperately, they'd lose subscribers. The current policy makes business sense.


Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
zesban wrote:
All I'm asking for is the ability to *purchase* (a lot of people seem to be confused, thinking I'm asking for these for free, which I am not) the same gameplay options as other players.

Which you can already do, by subscribing to the Card Game here. There are still plenty of other ways to support your FLGS besides buying all of your Adventure Decks there -- buy the base set there and then subscribe only for the Add-on deck and the ADs (a common tactic used here), buy snacks and drinks while gaming there, branch out into other games, etc.


skizzerz wrote:
zesban wrote:
All I'm asking for is the ability to *purchase* (a lot of people seem to be confused, thinking I'm asking for these for free, which I am not) the same gameplay options as other players.
Which you can already do, by subscribing to the Card Game here. There are still plenty of other ways to support your FLGS besides buying all of your Adventure Decks there -- buy the base set there and then subscribe only for the Add-on deck and the ADs (a common tactic used here), buy snacks and drinks while gaming there, branch out into other games, etc.

This feedback applies to acquiring previous cards, not current cards.

And I'm betting if you asked your FLGS owner if your subscribing to Paizo doesn't affect their business they'd look at you with a silly face.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
zesban wrote:
skizzerz wrote:
zesban wrote:
All I'm asking for is the ability to *purchase* (a lot of people seem to be confused, thinking I'm asking for these for free, which I am not) the same gameplay options as other players.
Which you can already do, by subscribing to the Card Game here. There are still plenty of other ways to support your FLGS besides buying all of your Adventure Decks there -- buy the base set there and then subscribe only for the Add-on deck and the ADs (a common tactic used here), buy snacks and drinks while gaming there, branch out into other games, etc.

This feedback applies to acquiring previous cards, not current cards.

And I'm betting if you asked your FLGS owner if your subscribing to Paizo doesn't affect their business they'd look at you with a silly face.

And my local stores know that I subscribe so that I'm guaranteed the promos that come with the set. But like skizzerz said, I bought my base set and my accessories from the local store(s) instead of getting my discount through Paizo. I buy my other games from them instead of going on to CoolStuff or Amazon. I support my stores.

And as far as previously released promos, it goes back to the "entitlement" attitude. That they should stock all the promos going back to the beginning of Rise of the Runelords? That's where you lose me. I don't feel that any company should need to do that. That they should have to reprint promos. That's silly.


Promo strategy

1) get ALL promos via subscription
2) get MOST promos in your flag store
3) order thru amazon to get NO promos
4) buy promos you didnt got thru EBAY

That are all options you got..

Why is it so difficult?
Easy ehhh?


Theryon Stormrune wrote:
zesban wrote:
skizzerz wrote:
zesban wrote:
All I'm asking for is the ability to *purchase* (a lot of people seem to be confused, thinking I'm asking for these for free, which I am not) the same gameplay options as other players.
Which you can already do, by subscribing to the Card Game here. There are still plenty of other ways to support your FLGS besides buying all of your Adventure Decks there -- buy the base set there and then subscribe only for the Add-on deck and the ADs (a common tactic used here), buy snacks and drinks while gaming there, branch out into other games, etc.

This feedback applies to acquiring previous cards, not current cards.

And I'm betting if you asked your FLGS owner if your subscribing to Paizo doesn't affect their business they'd look at you with a silly face.

And my local stores know that I subscribe so that I'm guaranteed the promos that come with the set. But like skizzerz said, I bought my base set and my accessories from the local store(s) instead of getting my discount through Paizo. I buy my other games from them instead of going on to CoolStuff or Amazon. I support my stores.

And as far as previously released promos, it goes back to the "entitlement" attitude. That they should stock all the promos going back to the beginning of Rise of the Runelords? That's where you lose me. I don't feel that any company should need to do that. That they should have to reprint promos. That's silly.

There is no "entitlement" here. If Paizo chooses not to make more money by printing and selling new cards, because they believe it's somehow increasing Paizo's value, it's their prerogative.

But they should know that there is a market waiting for them if they did choose to sell these Promos, maybe under a re-release pack that makes them different from the originals. That way they can keep the collector's value people happy and create a new product for generating revenue.

This *whole* thing about wanting to spend more money, directly with the producer, for content that is obviously desirable. This would seem to be a way better solution than leaving a secondary market to crop up where values are completely out of control, and players spend their budgets on this secondary market rather than on supporting either a FLGS or Paizo. But that seems to ruffle people's feathers, for whatever reason.

And you and I will just have to agree to disagree about where best to spend money to support local gaming. I don't know about your town, but mine has lost 5 such stores in the past 2 years alone. I wanna give mine every chance I can.

But this conversation doesn't really amount to a hill of beans if it goes entirely unnoticed by anyone at Paizo. So really it's up to them. If they see this feedback, this conversation, and choose to act on it that's up to them. If they choose not to act on it, that's also up to them. But they should know about it at least. That's the point.

- Zesban

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Zesban, you say they'd make more money, but you forget one very important piece.

What profit they gain from selling the cards, they lose in subscribers. If subscribing only gives a card that looks different but is functionally identical to something they can easily get elsewhere, tons of people would go to other places that are cheaper. When Paizo sells a product at my FLGS, the store has to make a profit so selling at the same cost as Paizo means Paizo makes more selling it direct to me. That is going to make more money than selling promos to anyone that wants them (unless of course they sell them at the ripoff prices MyFly apparently lists them for).

The subscription isn't a method to make maximum profit. It's a method to keep customers on a product by giving them a benefit most will want - a gameplay option you can't get elsewhere. A special look on a card is not going to pull remotely close to as many subscribers.


Andrew L Klein wrote:

Zesban, you say they'd make more money, but you forget one very important piece.

What profit they gain from selling the cards, they lose in subscribers. If subscribing only gives a card that looks different but is functionally identical to something they can easily get elsewhere, tons of people would go to other places that are cheaper. When Paizo sells a product at my FLGS, the store has to make a profit so selling at the same cost as Paizo means Paizo makes more selling it direct to me. That is going to make more money than selling promos to anyone that wants them (unless of course they sell them at the ripoff prices MyFly apparently lists them for).

The subscription isn't a method to make maximum profit. It's a method to keep customers on a product by giving them a benefit most will want - a gameplay option you can't get elsewhere. A special look on a card is not going to pull remotely close to as many subscribers.

Perhaps. Without knowing the specifics of the margin lost to sales through local stores, what their overhead would be, what they could reasonably sell the Promo packs for, and so on it's hard to say if this statement is true or not.

If the subscription nets them an extra $10 in profit, then selling the promo pack at a profit of $12 may be approachable, certainly cheaper than the $75+ one would spend on the secondary market.

But these are numbers I don't have.

Also, one can't assume that all subscribers subscribe solely for the benefit of the Promos, rather than brand loyalty, convenience, etc... And even for those that do subscribe for the Promos, they could continue to offer the Promos bundled with the subscription, "A $20 savings, and exclusive versions!" as a way of continuing to add value to the subscriptions and drive subscribers.

These are not insurmountable problems. And there is opportunity there still.

- Zesban


Andrew L Klein wrote:

Zesban, you say they'd make more money, but you forget one very important piece.

That is going to make more money than selling promos to anyone that wants them (unless of course they sell them at the ripoff prices MyFly apparently lists them for).

Andrew,

It is very nice to read those caring words of yours. Lovely.
I am going to flag your post!

Blessing of Zogmugot is a subscriber-exclusive promo card. That means NO retailer got it.
I am asking FAR less for it than such a promo card like the GOBLIN WIELDING (SS) which was a RETAILER promo (see below for the ebay auction link).

That leads me to the conclusion that you have absolutely no glue about the promo cards, their rarities and their value. And further no friendliness and understanding for foreign gamers!

... And then you are posting to this topic. ***SIGH*** Please simply dont do it. Just post to the rules section. Writing nonsense and building up unfriendly barriers doesnt lead anywhere. As I stated in another thread, I receive one sub here overseas for 25 USD where the pure ADs net resell value is 10 USD. That leaves 15 USD to the promo card pack. If there is just one promo card attached to the AD such as the none-of-use RotR Birdcruncher crown which sells on ebay for 2 USD... It is a BIG loss for me (for a collector: thinking of USD promo card value)! You get a promo card you dont use in the game PLUS has no resell value. What a bummer!! The usefulnes of the promo cards increased in SS. I liked that there were 2 promo cards connected to every AD. I would have loved that to carry over to WotR.

Finally, here you have your recent 21 USD ebay auction for Goblin wielding:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pathfinder-Adventure-card-game-Goblin-Weidling-Prom o-GenCon-2013-Rise-Runelords-/111694943055?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=i tem1a0189934f

Please dont reply. You have simply no knowledge about promo cards. Thanks.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Please don't tell other people not to post.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Ha. "unfriendly barriers"

Promo Bane:

Paizo forum.
Check to defeat - Charisma/Diplomacy 14


Vic Wertz wrote:
Please don't tell other people not to post.

Reading nonsense and getting insulted at the same time is not very nice. Some community rules do apply in this forum. As you wrote some time ago, it is a friendly place for discussion...

Should I encourage Andrew to write more insulting words about me?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Myfly wrote:

Andrew,

It is very nice to read those caring words of yours. Lovely.
I am going to flag your post!

I WILL NOT FREEZE OUT THE KIND INTENTIONS OF CARING FRIENDS.


Calthaer wrote:
Myfly wrote:

Andrew,

It is very nice to read those caring words of yours. Lovely.
I am going to flag your post!
I WILL NOT FREEZE OUT THE KIND INTENTIONS OF CARING FRIENDS.

Skeletor is always so funny, but Andrew words arent.


When the going get tough... turn to an Asgardian

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Myfly wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Please don't tell other people not to post.

Reading nonsense and getting insulted is not very nice. Some community rules do apply in this forum. As you wrote some time ago, it is a friendly place for discussion...

Should I encourage Andrew to write more insulting words about me?

Myfly, if you are personally offended by someone's post, then send them a private message simply stating that. Hopefully, you and that person can work it out. And you might get a public apology. Remember, don't attack but explain why your feelings were hurt. You are European and you won't always react the way we (Americans) will.

Unfortunately, with some of your posts about promos and other ideas that you feel will profit Paizo, you have a tendency to open yourself up to criticism and an object of public comment. It's not a valid reason but it is something to think about as you post some of your ideas.

Zesban, I just want to point out that you want to hear from a Paizo person. It is obvious that Vic (and probably others) are paying attention. Remember that no comment is a reply in itself.


hfm wrote:
When the going get tough... turn to an Asgardian

I did nothing wrong here... Just walking tall.

Sorry, you have to wait till 2017 for another swing of that hammer, my friend.

Link:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3501632/

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

MyFly, in all seriousness I was not trying to insult you. I apologize for coming of that way. Most people who sell on eBay (myself included) have probably listed at least one or two things at ripoff prices. I'm not trying to imply you're some horrible person, but that doesn't change the fact that nearly $15 a cars for something that all subscribers got not one, but five of, is not exactly a fair cost.

I actually have one item right now on eBay that started bidding at a reasonable cost, and has skyrocketed past anything a sane person would pay for it if not for its rarity. Even if the bidding stopped now, it would not be close to a fair price to them but heck, they wanted to pay it. Selling something overpriced isn't necessarily bad, but let's not pretend it isn't still overpriced. Yours is less than the Weidling, but a worse asking price doesn't make another one any better.

As for me not knowing about promo rarities and values, you couldn't be more wrong. I started Runelords at Adventure 3 and went to eBay for the prior promos -- Yea, even Fire Sneeze and Poog. I know all about how rare they can be depending on when you look, how much they sell for, and how the same is true for any rare product. Heck, look at the Power 9 MTG cards on eBay. If those were commonplace, the price would plummet dramatically, it's the rarity that drives them. That doesn't keep it from being a ripoff to charge $4000+ for a card.

I've collected promos for many games, through both original distribution and backtracking on eBay, I know about promos. I know that people pay absurd prices for them (including myself on some occasions, like a $15 Fire Sneeze and Poog), but I also know that those prices are, in fact, absurd.

I have nothing against foreign gamers, we all share a love of games, and that's awesome. I just don't think that "I pay more for being overseas" is a valid reason for... well, anything. We all make our own choices to buy in the manner we do. Some pay crazy costs for international shipping (though you say you pay 25 USD, which is probably what the average US subscriber pays as well so no difference there), some of us go back and pay stupid prices for a promo card, others buy games that in general are just flatout expensive.
Then there are the Zombicide completionists who really deserve a category of their own for having to sell a car every time a new Kickstarter comes out.

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