Promo Cards are Brutal! So, so, so Brutal!


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion

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Also: there are *some* companies in Europe that tend to be advantageous for us Europeans over Americans or sometimes Australians.

I know this for a fact, because I'm from Europe too. Yes, it sucks to wait 14-21 days for a package to arrive when it's sent, but you can't blame Paizo for that.

In an extreme form, your argument could be translated to poor Africans emailing paizo to give them some money, since they have more of it.

It sucks, yup, I recently payed 60 USD shipping costs for a KS-game. Which won't arrive until March 2016, but we sacrifice because we love games!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Zaister wrote:
You still don't get it that you don't need more than one of each promo card. They're not designed for more than one of them in a game. The Guide to Organized Play even spells it out:
Guide to Pathfinder Adventure Card Guild Organized Play wrote:
Organizers may add up to 12 promo cards to the game box, but no more than than one copy of any one card.
That rule even applies to the Blessing of Zogmugot, even if subscribers got five copies of it.

I want to point out that this rule only applies to Organized Play and is there to limit the amount of variation that can occur between different organizer's boxes. Although I agree that for the most part you only need and should only have one of each promo in a box, the S&S blessing is an acceptable exception to this (and the RotR blessing, even though multiple copies were not provided of that one, though it was more needed due to its last power). And if someone like Myfly wants to have many copies of as many promos as he wants in his home box, that's his business. It's not at all against the rules for a home game.

hfm wrote:
THE PROMOS ARE NOT REQUIRED. read it again THE PROMOS ARE NOT REQUIRED. Why on Earth would a card that's called a PROMO be available at all times forever? That goes against the very definition of a PROMO in this industry.

I'd also like to echo and add to this. The tabletop PROMO is a bit of a tradition at this point. It is meant to be a fun little addition to the game and, as the name should suggest, is meant to promote the game. These are not typically meant to be direct money makers for the company releasing them. They are meant to be advertisements or incentives. They are small bits that the company can throw at convention goers to get them interested in their game and incentives to get people to buy the game directly through them or a local game store with the proper distribution channels. The company should not be to blame for secondary market issues and shouldn't be expected to make them available themselves. In fact, in many cases producing "promo packs" can be a market risk. What would be the market for these cards? How would Paizo know how much they should produce to get a return on the investment or to at least break even? How would loyal subscribers feel about their special cards being made available to others who didn't subscribe?

Now, if Paizo did decide to make old promos available, they actually do have a good vehicle to do so: Print on demand via DriveThruCards. This would make it so they don't have to worry about how many to produce because they'll be produced as they are made. Personally, if they did something like that, I'd say there should be at least a six month delay after initial release and the price should be between $2 and $5 per card. It's a little pricy, but hey, it's better than $20+, right? That should continue to make subscribing an incentive with sooner and free cards while being a decent gesture to completionists who either came in late or don't feel like subscribing for whatever reason. Just a thought, but again it would kind of go against the whole tradition of the promo. However, selling promos online isn't completely unheard of. There are a number of promos available on Board Game Geek's store and some companies like AEG (with Thunderstone and other games) who have sold promos on their online stores.


zesban, I did not read everyone else's posts, and just a couple of things. I too am a completionist and have also found some of the aftermarket pricing a bit absurd. Now, with that out of the way, I found a Ranzak on ebay for under $5 with shipping. I also saw the $45 Ranzak. Being an avid ebayer the one thing I will point out is waiting for the right price at the right time (this is a long process for some items). On to the next thing, I feel that Paizo wants to encourage people to get involved by subscribing to get the promos when the release, an incentive for those direct supporters. Although, I do feel your pain, and it hurts. I also do not subscribe and have had this thought: Now that RotR and S&S is out of the way, I think that with Drivethru they could (hopefully, fingers crossed... I'll beg if necessary)create a bundle of RotR promos and S&S promos (separately of course) for a reasonable price ($2 a card maybe, hell, with the after market pricing I'd settle for $5 a card). Possibly we could rally for such possibility. If this does happen (either the rally or the card bundle for purchase) I am on board.


Andrew L Klein wrote:
We all make our own choices to buy in the manner we do. Some pay crazy costs for international shipping (though you say you pay 25 USD, which is probably what the average US subscriber pays as well so no difference there)

I paid $20 shipping in my subscription for my WoTR Base set, addon pack, and the Iconic Heroes #3 was in the box, which pales in comparison to the weight of the other two.

I live in NYC.


If the promos would be available at DriveThru with the same top lefthand logo some time after the adventure path is concluded, I would right away cancel my PAIZO subscription... As I subscribe only to obtain a complete set of the original promos. Save lots on oversea shipping and import taxes. Finally, I would support my local game shop and buy the drivethru promos.

It is that simple. For me, a big costsaver and for Paizo a big loss of money...

But I would love to see again for the next adventure path 1 blessing promo conntected to each AD as it was in SS. One sub equals 5 blessings...

How about that?

@andrew would say, that I could put those 5 blessings again for a ripoff price on ebay ;-)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Myfly wrote:
It is that simple. For me, a big costsaver and for Paizo a big loss of money...

In the long run, I don't think it would be that big of a loss for Paizo. They'd still be selling the product. They may not be getting quite as much profit from your particular purchase (and likely many other overseas customers), but if customers are instead buying the products from their local stores, I think Paizo would be perfectly okay with that. More sales for local stores means better chances that they'll stay open longer, continuing to help promote the hobby and letting it grow.


Codcake wrote:
zesban, I did not read everyone else's posts, and just a couple of things. I too am a completionist and have also found some of the aftermarket pricing a bit absurd. Now, with that out of the way, I found a Ranzak on ebay for under $5 with shipping. I also saw the $45 Ranzak. Being an avid ebayer the one thing I will point out is waiting for the right price at the right time (this is a long process for some items). On to the next thing, I feel that Paizo wants to encourage people to get involved by subscribing to get the promos when the release, an incentive for those direct supporters. Although, I do feel your pain, and it hurts. I also do not subscribe and have had this thought: Now that RotR and S&S is out of the way, I think that with Drivethru they could (hopefully, fingers crossed... I'll beg if necessary)create a bundle of RotR promos and S&S promos (separately of course) for a reasonable price ($2 a card maybe, hell, with the after market pricing I'd settle for $5 a card). Possibly we could rally for such possibility. If this does happen (either the rally or the card bundle for purchase) I am on board.

I find this solution both elegant and easy to implement. I say +1.

Further, they could replace the top left logo with a simple Season 1, or something, to mark it as different from the Promos people were rewarded with for attending events or subscribing. The rarity and exclusivity of those would then be maintained, Paizo would have no overhead, gamers would have access to additional components, and just about everyone would come out ahead.

Otherwise, I find this topic settled, or at least to my content. We've seen a response from a Paizo rep, which did not address this topic at all but was to break up a scuffle threatening to take the thread off topic. That tells me that the feedback has been heard and that what will happen, will happen. I doubt we'll see a response here on this actual topic, and if anything is going to change, it will just be announced when it does.

Please feel free to continue to discuss if you'd like to share your thoughts or what have you. I'll keep reading, but I'm satisfied with what I've seen and will probably not respond to this thread again.

- Zesban


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

A search of past threads indicates that Vic has already talked about this issue. This isn't new; in fact the values of Poogs and Fire Sneezes spiked right after GenCon and PAX late summer of 2012 because it was the absolute new hotness at the time (as opposed to merely being a very popular game).

Here's another thread on it. Vic's opinion has always been clear on this. Although I still have no idea what Vic's super secret idea about the promos is yet. (the only thing I can think of for that timeframe is the drivethrurpg custom card creator announcement, but that has nothing to do with promos)


Just to look at this from the other side, the only reason I subscribed was to get the promo cards. I would never have subscribed otherwise, would have just kept getting the game from Amazon.


---- I would be very disappointed if they would sell the promos directly for a small amout of money in their store... This would harm the subscription model.

+++ I dont mind if they would slide the remaining promos into the current Adventure Deck subscriptions. Everybody who has a subscription will profit from them... That would be fair.
Especially, the convention and the subscription promos should stay convention- and subscription based.

Anybody supporting this proposal?

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Or just leave things the way they are. We like the current distribution.


Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Or just leave things the way they are. We like the current distribution.

Me too. But in another pacg promo thread, it was stated that there are leftover promos.

Paizo please dont sell them directly but make your subscribers a small christmas gift ;-)


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Maybe I'm blind but I just can't find. Where is the freakin ignore function of this forum?


OnkelZorni wrote:
Maybe I'm blind but I just can't find. Where is the freakin ignore function of this forum?

Ignore then this thread

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qvh6?PACG-Promos#1

It is the link from zeroth_hour and his/her discussion topic I replied to. FYI


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
OnkelZorni wrote:
Maybe I'm blind but I just can't find. Where is the freakin ignore function of this forum?

When you are looking at the forum at the right end of each thread it tells you how many posts are in the thread. Next to that is what looks like a zero with a slash through it. Click that to hide the thread.

At the top of the forum is a button to toggle between showing or hiding threads you've hidden.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
OnkelZorni wrote:
Maybe I'm blind but I just can't find. Where is the freakin ignore function of this forum?

When you are looking at the forum at the right end of each thread it tells you how many posts are in the thread. Next to that is what looks like a zero with a slash through it. Click that to hide the thread.

At the top of the forum is a button to toggle between showing or hiding threads you've hidden.

It works!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
OnkelZorni wrote:
Maybe I'm blind but I just can't find. Where is the freakin ignore function of this forum?

When you are looking at the forum at the right end of each thread it tells you how many posts are in the thread. Next to that is what looks like a zero with a slash through it. Click that to hide the thread.

At the top of the forum is a button to toggle between showing or hiding threads you've hidden.

Thanks Hawk, not quite what I was looking for but this should work for now

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Myfly wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Please don't tell other people not to post.

Reading nonsense and getting insulted at the same time is not very nice. Some community rules do apply in this forum. As you wrote some time ago, it is a friendly place for discussion...

Should I encourage Andrew to write more insulting words about me?

You said you were going to flag his post—that's the right thing to do. Then a moderator will decide whether he has broken the guidelines or not (and the moderators may or may not agree with you). Fighting back is not the right thing to do.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Myfly wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Or just leave things the way they are. We like the current distribution.

Me too. But in another pacg promo thread, it was stated that there are leftover promos.

Paizo please dont sell them directly but make your subscribers a small christmas gift ;-)

I was under the impression any "leftover" promos got packed with random non-subscription orders of the adventure they were released with.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

They could also provide leftover promos as con support for event coordinators.


pluvia33 wrote:
They could also provide leftover promos as con support for event coordinators.

Some time ago, I read so ething about a special promo card for Gen Con helpers... What was it? A completely new exclusive one for them? Or the convention promo "temptation"?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

There was a PFSACG/PFS boon for Paizocon GMs. GMs/game organizers tend to be given PFS boons rather than cards (they will still get promo cards).

Temptation is the convention promo.


Although I am generally a completionist, I totally understand the Promo strategy and don't really feel the need to go and get all of the promos for this game. Having said that, I just signed up for a PACG Subscription starting with WOTR AP2. I tried to find a list of WOTR promos and whether I'd be getting previous ones.

I have the notice that I'm getting the Sweet Dragon Costume with my AP2 shipment. Are there other Promos that I won't be getting because I started my sub with AP2? Just wondering and not too worried if I won't be getting them.


Well as a person who supports the game store, I myself feel like that being a non subscriber is like a second hand customer. I get to pay more, get the merchandize 2-3 later and wonder if I will get all the promo's. Well for me, I am debating if I will purchase any future set and just end it WoTR.


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jduteau wrote:

Although I am generally a completionist, I totally understand the Promo strategy and don't really feel the need to go and get all of the promos for this game. Having said that, I just signed up for a PACG Subscription starting with WOTR AP2. I tried to find a list of WOTR promos and whether I'd be getting previous ones.

I have the notice that I'm getting the Sweet Dragon Costume with my AP2 shipment. Are there other Promos that I won't be getting because I started my sub with AP2? Just wondering and not too worried if I won't be getting them.

You missed temptation of the big die and chuffy lickwound. They came with the character add on deck.

Rexx, sounds to me like you just want a reason to quit. You're really going to say that because you don't get a discount and promo cards because you buy from your store makes you feel like quitting? As a new subscriber myself I can say that by the time the package gets to me I have paid just as much as you do at your store. But I like the game and the company enough to want to buy directly from them. The promos are just an added bonus. If you feel so strongly about your local store do what people have suggested and buy the base deck and all your accessories there. There are plenty of ways to support both. But your feeling like a second hand customer has more to do about you than it has to dobwith paizo or there business model.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

rexx2264, you didn't actually subscribe during the days of RotR and S&S.

There were incessant complaints that the stores would get to sell things way earlier than the subscribers and that delays would cause the subscription to fall way behind the street date. This whole thing about early arrivals is very recent.

In addition, Pablo is correct, the discount mainly covers shipping costs (if you live in North America, if you're international the shipping/custom costs don't get fully covered).


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I'm still reeling from it a little, realizing that AP2 technically just came out this week when we've had it for two. I got used to sulking while looking at the Amazon listings ready to ship.


zeroth_hour wrote:

.... In addition, Pablo is correct, the discount mainly covers shipping costs (if you live in North America, if you're international the shipping/custom costs don't get fully covered).

In North America - the subscription discount covers the shipping costs. Good.

@Paizo:
How about a "special" discount for international subscribers, so international shipping/customs are also covered in the same way as a North America subscription ??

Not only in front of God, but also in front of Paizo - all PACG fans are equal ;-)))) right?


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Can you stop nagging for 2 posts, Myfly?

Jezus man, if this Game is too expensive to play for you, don't play. But every post I read from you is either 1) Asking for Promos or 2) Asking for cheaper stuff.

Bro, I'm from Europe too. And believe you me, I would be happy to pay even more to support this awesome game.

So, please, PLEASE, stop complaining about the expensivity of stuff for this game. If this game doesn't fit in your "Completionist/Econimical Picture", then just.. don't buy it?

[/rant]

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Equal by... giving a discount to some customers but not others?

I've had the wrong definition of "equal" my whole life apparently lol


Andrew L Klein wrote:

Equal by... giving a discount to some customers but not others?

I've had the wrong definition of "equal" my whole life apparently lol

Equal by end price... LOL

Just a funny idea ;-) for discussion...
I am not complaining at all. I am happy as it is...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Man, I just got my Wrath of the Righteous deck 2 shipped separately from the rest of my subscriptions. I paid $16.99 + $4.93 (shipping) which amounts to 20,12€, with a free promo card.

If I were to (pre-)order the deck in France, it would cost me 20,90€ (+3,95€ of shipping).

Stop saying the subscription is too expensive for Europeans. Maybe it's too expensive for Germans because your Customs Office is too efficient, but it's definitely cool for us French people (where the unwritten import allowance is about $100 per package and where the mail person at the end of the chain just doesn't know what to do with the Customs form that gets slapped onto 1 of every 50 packages).


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Fayries wrote:

Man, I just got my Wrath of the Righteous deck 2 shipped separately from the rest of my subscriptions. I paid $16.99 + $4.93 (shipping) which amounts to 20,12€, with a free promo card.

If I were to (pre-)order the deck in France, it would cost me 20,90€ (+3,95€ of shipping).

Stop saying the subscription is too expensive for Europeans. Maybe it's too expensive for Germans because your Customs Office is too efficient, but it's definitely cool for us French people (where the unwritten import allowance is about $100 per package and where the mail person at the end of the chain just doesn't know what to do with the Customs form that gets slapped onto 1 of every 50 packages).

Solution found. i am relocating and moving to France. Buying a small house at the beach and enjoying PACG after having a delicious French dinner.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

See!

A good idea! Move to France.


Theryon Stormrune wrote:

See!

A good idea! Move to France.

Finally, I could do it right for you...


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Community petition to have Myfly move to France, please.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

To a part with or without internet access?


Donny Schuijers wrote:
To a part with or without internet access?

@fayries

Do you have DSL or still an analog modem?

@bbkabag
I am happy that the petion is not about moving to Greece.

From today on the banks in Greece are closed. You dont get anymore money there.
EU-Greece crisis... You should google that if you have no glue about it.


Donny Schuijers wrote:


Bro, I'm from Europe too

How has your experience been with getting your subscription to the NL? I guess the price of an adventure pack is just below the customs limit (for now, who knows what will happen to the dollar/euro exchange rate). I'm considering a subscription for the next set.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I have lots of glue.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
MagnificentMagpie wrote:
Donny Schuijers wrote:


Bro, I'm from Europe too
How has your experience been with getting your subscription to the NL? I guess the price of an adventure pack is just below the customs limit (for now, who knows what will happen to the dollar/euro exchange rate). I'm considering a subscription for the next set.

My experience is pretty good, actually, for a couple of reasons:

1) I don't mind paying 1-2 euro's extra to support a company which I love for all of their work.
2) It takes about 2-3 weeks of shipping, but I still have at 1-2 weeks before it comes out in Retail stores.
3) Promos. Yes, I like promos.


PabloKruz wrote:


As a new subscriber myself I can say that by the time the package gets to me I have paid just as much as you do at your store. But I like the game and the company enough to want to buy directly from them. The promos are just an added bonus.

For an european customer i can say a subscription is more expensive than buy it in a store. I have high shipping cost and in the end i payed more.

I decided to subscribe because of the promos.

But don't get me wrong. I am not complaining. I feel good with it.
I did not regret it and i am really happy with the service paizo offers.

The only sad thing is that i have to wait so long until i get the cards. :-(

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The other side of subscriptions is that Paizo will stand behind their product(s). If you order from them or subscribe, their customer service is friendly and helpful and really do try to get things solved. So missing cards and/or damaged product will get replaced.

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