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I just stumbled upon this thread today...the lack of journal entries leads to one logical conclusion: TPK


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Zorae wrote:


I think it's less "we shouldn't need a healer" and more "We shouldn't need a specific a dedicated healer that does literally nothing but heal" and "The Healer shouldn't have to save all their resources for out of combat Healing instead of doing cool things in combat".

Because blowing limited resources for out of combat Healing isn't fun. Saving people in combat is great and part of the fun/power fantasy of being a healer. Being the party's CLW wand isn't.

Could you imagine if detect magic wasn't a cantrip? Or if a fighter could only repair their shield one time per day? Or if you were only allowed to shoot x arrows per day?

I get that, but I never felt that way about Pathfinder. With Clerics getting Channels, and the proliferation of magic items via item creation feats (wands/potions/scrolls), I feel there is plenty of available out of combat healing. It just might cost you more. You cant choose not to have a type of character in the group and then complain about the gaps, imo. I definitely do not subscribe to the philosophy group make-up shouldnt matter.

Detect Magic wasnt a cantrip, back in the day (there was no such thing!). Buy/Create a wand of it via group loot if that was the case.


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BPorter wrote:
Nox Aeterna wrote:

If anything i think it is too weak and it still takes too long to fully heal the party after a fight, in a rushed dungeon this might aswell be forgotten.

Well, will give it sometime before i judge it, could be it works better than it looks, but if anything to me right now it still doesnt look strong enough.

If anything less than "full strength before every fight" is "too weak", why even call it Treat Wounds or Medicine? At that point just call it "health bar regen" that occurs after every fight and call it a day.

I agree. I also get that's a play style choice and ultimately there is going to be a group of people who "lose out" on this debate.

So, what I am about to say isn't a condemnation of one playing style over another (to each their own), just an honest inquiry...

I'm curious where the "we shouldn't need a healer" movement comes from. Is it the younger crowd, accustomed to video game-esque mechanics where everything rapidly replenishes? I feel as if older generation players (with roots in 1E or maybe 2E) are less likely to feel that way. I might be wrong, I have no real data to back this thinking aside from other 1E/2E people I talk to who don't seem to mind the need for a dedicated healer (or a spread of classes that give you the same thing).


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I believe 1.3 Treat Wounds is too powerful as-is. I fully support non magical healing being part of the game. But I do not like the idea of spamming Treat Wounds in 10 minute bursts, being able to use mundane methods only to fully heal someone so quickly. I'd consider two restrictions to it:

1. Targets are bolstered against Treat Wounds until receiving another wound.

This at least stops Treat Wounds spamming.

2. Treat Wounds cannot heal more HP than the target has taken since the last time they benefited from Treat Wounds.

I get it, people will hate #2 because of book-keep reasons. But that type of detail has not bothered me.


Looking for clarity (official, not opinion) on this Class Feat. Does it remove the Material Casting action, or replace it with a (second) Somatic Casting action?

e.g. Sending is normally a three action cast (Material, Somatic and Verbal). Is Sending now Somatic/Verbal, or Somatic/Somatic/Verbal?

What about a spell with no Somatic to begin with (didn't check to see if that existed)? I assumed in this case, Material is replaced with Somatic.


Not sure I agree; hence, grey. :)

By it's definition, it does not expire. It does not say dispelled.


An interesting grey area are the ones are with a duration of Permanent.


I would argue spells with a duration of Instantaneous stay. It says spells expire, which implies to me the duration runs out; if there is no duration, there is nothing to expire.

For example, if a summoned creature casts cure light wounds, does it "expire" when they leave and the wounds return? I do not think too many people would argue that is the case. Following this logic, a Wall of Force would expire, whereas a Wall of Stone would not.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

There is debate within one group I play in whether or not a Banshee's Wail is Sonic damage. It never explicitly states that it's sonic damage, but does state its a "sonic death effect" (and one could logically infer sonic). It also references the 9th level spell, which again, though listed as sonic descriptor, never states the type of damage in the description.

Thoughts?


Mark Seifter wrote:
With spells that are directly comparable and fill a similar niche (such as damaging spells), you would expect that the innately higher level spell should have a slight but not overwhelming edge over the heightened lower level spell, since it takes effort to actually learn the new higher level spell (and a limited spell known for a spontaneous caster), whereas it takes no additional effort to heighten the lower level spell.

Yeah, I totally agree. Again, it was more about a concern of low level spells at their "default" becoming worthless because the focus is on scaling them as Heightened. I am only looking at a small sample size, so this is more me speaking a thought out loud than a real complaint.


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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Fuzzypaws wrote:

Magic Missile should probably be Heighten 1 rather than Heighten 2. No one will cast a Magic Missile in a 9th level slot, when that works out to only being as good as a 5th level spell and nowhere comparable to higher level magic.

You are right, that 9th level spell is going to be better than a 9th level magic missile, but that is the point. It is usually not the best option, but there are circumstances where it will be.

I think we intentionally made sure that the heightened spells were not obviously better than spells of that level. They are meant to be options to help fill out your tool kit in the right scenario. We want you to make choices with your spells, not just automatically prepare the "best" one all the time.

And I would probably prep that higher level magic missile if I knew I was facing down a powerful ghost....

Isnt the problem with this, though - and in some ways the idea of Heighten Spells altogether - that the value of lower level spells are greatly reduced. You admit casting Heightened MM is "usually not the best option", but now when you are higher level using MM in its default level (1st) it is much weaker than in 1E.

Over-all I like the idea of Heightened spells but I do have a concern of it over-all resulting in cast away low level spells because they are no longer any good at their original level and not good enough to Heighten. Something I have been watching for as examples roll out.

Perhaps Heightened lower level spells with be the new staple of wands and such.


Using Nimbus of Light as the specific example, but the question is generic to *when* damage from emanations takes place.

For example. Let's say a Cleric's turn starts with her Nimbus already up, and two undead creatures are already within it. Then lets say she moves 30' on her turn, removing one of the original undead from the area but adding two additional undead into range. Do all 4 take damage since at some point in the round they were exposed, or does it have to be declared at a specific point in the round (e.g. start, end) when the damage takes place?


Been a long time with no update on this thread (maybe it was handled somewhere else).

In any case, another interesting take on the wording of the card:

Since it says "...encounter this barrier as their first exploration each turn...", I take this to mean you can choose NOT to explore on your turn and therefore not encounter it.


LazarX wrote:
wizardmark wrote:

No way is this a 2nd level spell. Allowing 1 item to be drawn once every minute as a swift action is not that powerful (nor is it truly imitating a Feat, since that can be done limitless).

So a potion, scroll or wand (or whatever) gets pulled out once in awhile for free. Simply not that big a deal.

Yes it is... of all the economies in the game, there is nothing more precious or of greater impact, than the action economy.

We will simply agree to (strongly) disagree. :)


No way is this a 2nd level spell. Allowing 1 item to be drawn once every minute as a swift action is not that powerful (nor is it truly imitating a Feat, since that can be done limitless).

So a potion, scroll or wand (or whatever) gets pulled out once in awhile for free. Simply not that big a deal.


4d4 is low, but there is no save for the damage, just the residual effects.

10d4 damage AND staggered for multiple rounds seems too powerful to me.

I could change the Fort to Ref like most AOE spells, Fort just felt more appropriate. d4+1 over d3+1 is fine.


/bump for update. Thoughts?

Thunderclap
Evocation [Air, Sonic]

Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100’, + 10’ per level)
Target: 10' Radius
Duration: Instantaneous (see below)
Saving Throw: Yes (Fortitude partial; see below)
Spell Resistance: Yes

"You slam your staff upon the ground and call out the final incantation. A thunderous boom follows, and your enemies left standing stumble about from the shock and awe."

Thunderclap rapidly expands the air in the area of effect, causing a shockwave (and a loud boom) like that of thunder.

Anyone in the area of effect takes 4d4 sonic damage and are deafened¹ and staggered² for d3+1 rounds.

A successful Fortitude save prevents the staggered condition and limits the deafened condition to 1 round.

¹ Deafened: A deafened character cannot hear. He takes a –4 penalty on Initiative checks, automatically fails Perception checks based on sound, takes a –4 penalty on opposed Perception checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components.

² Staggered: A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions). A staggered creature can still take swift and immediate actions.


Ok, I get it, its clearly not Enchantment. Truth be told I am probably stuck in the 1E/2E days of thinking.

Your re-do, though cool enough in it's own right, obviously isnt the same spell, as in your case using the item would be the caster's standard action (at least thats how I read it).


I like the concept around the "Snow Ball" spell, specifically with the update Set mentioned. I too see it rumbling along the ground, gaining momentum and size. Doesnt have to be that way, of course, and the "how" the snowball gets to the target isnt overly important anyway.

However, being 2nd level, I would definitely cap the damage at 10d4, not 20d4. 20d4 is too much for a spell of that level to devlier in a single round, even on a single target, imo.


Doc_Outlands wrote:
How did you arrive at 5th Level for it?

Well, I figured anything that allowed you to essentially cast multiple spells per round had to be pretty high level. The low duration and addition of forcing a move-equivelent action to use it I justified keeping it from going any higher.


Necromancer wrote:
I'd add this to the witch's spell list as well. I'd change the duration to "2 rounds/5 levels" and drop the somatic and material components. This is a spell I'd really want to have available while grappled, so requiring only a verbal component makes this spell very practical. As for the material component, set the wand as the focus of the spell.

Well, I went with the fixed 4 rounds to match the Dancing Weapon duration. It seemed fitting - the justification for the magic for the spell to match the magics that are used to enchant weapons in the first place. If I were to use a non-fixed duration, I think something like 1 round/3 levels might work better. 2 per 5 gives you that awkward scenario where the spell improves greatly 1 level after being able to cast it - from 2 rounds at 9th level to 4 rounds at 10th.


Of the four spells I posted, THIS is the one I expected the most commentary on, and...nothing. /shrug.


Yes, interesting comments, because my original thought was to go weak on the damage (say, 4d4) and focus on dazed (missed save) versus staggered (made save) or something like that.


Good info.

Yes I tend to add fluff text, but thats just part of how I like to write.

To answer the question, yes, the "bug" keeps making ranged touch attacks.

I will have to consider some of the comments, couple good thoughts in there.

Thanks folks.


Yeah I was thining at least Short range, after I posted it.

Maybe add the same +3 to hit as per Shocking Grasp (anyone with metal).


Didnt consider cover/concealment. Guess its logical (from underneath).

No hardness/HP, its just thickened air. Its vulnerbale to air based "attacks" as mentioned, otherwise, no. That said, I will have to read through the other Wall spells more closely, I am still relatively noobish to Pathfinder (stuck in the 3e/3.5 mindset).

Yes, you could chain them, the end of one bridge would be considered an anchor. You are right, it should specifically state that.

Good feedback, thanks.


Feedback on Level/Balance requested...

Dancing Wand
Enchantment [Air]

Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 5, Magus 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: None (wand touched)
Target: 1 wand
Duration: 4 rounds (see below)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

"With a flick of your wrist you send your wand into the air beside you, where it hovers at shoulder height and begins blasting away at your enemies as you go about other tasks."

This spell animates one of your wands in a similar fashion to a Dancing Weapon. Starting the round after casting, the caster can utilize the wand as if s/he was holding it with a move-equivalent action, leaving him/her to take additional actions such as casting a spell or taking any other standard action allowable. The duration of the Dancing is 4 rounds from after the round cast.

While Dancing, the wand is considered to share the same space as the caster and is considered wielded or attended by the caster for all maneuvers and effects that target items. The Dancing Wand accompanies the caster everywhere, whether s/he moves by physical or magical means.

The caster can grasp the wand as a free action anytime, including when the spell ends, though this effectively ends the spell even if the duration has not yet expired. If the caster is unable to grab the wand at the spells expiration, it clatters to the ground unharmed, unless some mitigating circumstance dictates otherwise (DM discretion).

The material component is the wand to be animated, which is not hurt or expended in any way as a result of the casting (of course, using the Wand require charges to be expended as applicable to normal usage).


Feedback on Level/Balance requested...

Thunderclap
Evocation [Air, Sonic]

Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100’, + 10’ per level)
Target: 20' Radius
Duration: Instantaneous (see below)
Saving Throw: Yes
Spell Resistance: Yes

"You slam your staff upon the ground and call out the final incantation. A thunderous boom follows, and your enemies left standing stumble about from the shock and awe."

Thunderclap rapidly expands the air in the area of effect, causing a shockwave (and a loud boom) like that of thunder.

Anyone in the area of effect take 1d4 points of sonic damage per caster level (max of 12d4) and is considered staggered for 1 round. A successful Reflex saves halves damage and prevents the staggered condition.


Feedback on Level/Balance requested...

Air Bridge
Transmutation [Air]

Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 2, Druid 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Short (50, + 5’ per level)
Target: Creates semi-transparent bridge of air
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

"Raising your hand and wiggling your fingers in a walking motion, you watch as the air thickens and forms a passable bridge over the chasm in front of you."

When cast, you create a 6 inch thick bridge of thickened air. The thickened air becomes semi-transparent, so onlookers can see its shimmering form. Once in place, the bridge cannot be moved by the caster.

The bridge can be a maximum of 10' + 1'/caster level wide and 20' + 10'/caster level long, and must be anchored on at least one end (merely touching a solid surface suffices as an anchor). The maximum upward or downward angle of the bridge is 45 degrees. The bridge can sustain any creature or object of up to 300lbs + 50lbs/level. Any individual creature or object that exceeds this weight limit sinks through the thickened air and falls.

A Gust of Wind or stronger magics acting directly against the bridge act as a Dispel Magic against the bridge. The bridge cannot be cast in an area where natural wind speeds are already at Gust of Wind speeds or higher (sustained 50mph).


Feedback on Level/Balance requested...

Lightning Bugs
Evocation [Electricity]

Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 2
Components: V, S, M (live bug or miniature replica worth at least 1gp)
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25, + 5’ per 2 caster levels)
Target: 1 or more Creatures within range (See Text)
Duration: See Text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

"Whispering arcane words of encouragement, you blow the bug out of your cupped hand and towards its target(s), where it transforms into tiny winged motes of electric energy."

When cast, tiny winged motes of sparkling bluish energy fly out from you towards their intended target(s). You conjure 2 such motes at 3rd level, plus an additional mote for every 3 levels past 3rd (3 at 6th, 4 at 9th, and maxing out at 5 motes at 12th level and above). These “bugs” can be directed to individual targets or grouped according to the caster’s desires, so long as any given target is within range.

Each mote makes a ranged touch attack against its given target (as the caster). Success indicates the mote is destroyed in small flash accompanied with a zapping sound, and the target takes 2d4 points of electric damage. A miss does not necessarily end the threat, as the motes will follow their designated target and continue to attack on the caster’s turn for up to 3 additional rounds. If the target moves further than 50 feet in a round or is killed, the mote self destructs in a harmless blue flash. Once a target is designated for a given mote, it cannot be changed.

If a replica is used in the casting in place of a live bug, it is always destroyed in some way – melting to goo, shattering in a tiny (harmless) explosion, cracking in half, etc. In all cases, it becomes unusable for future castings.


So...is there anyone in northern NJ (Parsippany area ideally, but definitely not NYC) thats playing and needs new member(s)?


I'd be interested in forming or starting a northern NJ Pathfinder group, too. I live in the Parsippany area - Mighty Titan is a good place to meet, or just someone's house.

If there is an existing group that is looking for more people, contact me at shadowsage@wizardmark.com


Koldoon wrote:
Scott Seeber wrote:

Ok...hope I dont get yelled at for this, but here it goes...

I am new to this site and a new subscriber to both Dungeon and Dragon magazines. Last time I had a Dragon subscription, it started with original issue #87! Ahh, I miss Wormy...anyway, was wondering HOW one goes about submitting proposals for Dunegeon.

I assume this question has been asked/answered 1000 times and I apologize for not taking the time to search out the answer...but please, someone answer! :)

Look here under Contribute to Dungeon

Also, read this thread for tips... you'll find some (like the current ban on borg proposals) that you won't find in the guidelines.

-Ashavan

Many thanks


Ok...hope I dont get yelled at for this, but here it goes...

I am new to this site and a new subscriber to both Dungeon and Dragon magazines. Last time I had a Dragon subscription, it started with original issue #87! Ahh, I miss Wormy...anyway, was wondering HOW one goes about submitting proposals for Dunegeon.

I assume this question has been asked/answered 1000 times and I apologize for not taking the time to search out the answer...but please, someone answer! :)