silvermage's page

Pretty much, they where all about power and taking down the evil. Remember slayers where not really expected to live very long they where given the strength to fight the demons and very limited insight and sent off.

Sigh, I was really looking forward to the slayer class though haha! Is it possible to stack the grave warden and deliverer archetype? Because I think that could give a pretty buffyverse-slayer feel to the character. Maybe some slayers in the past have used weapons rather than unarmed strikes, just as a preference..? :T Strugglebus haha.

I would say she's some archetype of Monk that gets limited prophetic abilities, and maybe an ability to heal faster over time.

I say Monk because Buffy's not exactly all-natural. I think the Monk's magicky vibes might fit her better.

Perhaps! My character is just supposed to be similar to Buffy, but not exactly like her although after watching all the seasons recently, I do have a firm grasp of what she is like. However, Faith was a slayer too, and she also did not have the 'calm focused side' of the monk either... in fact, nobody did, except maybe Giles and Xander. Everyone else lost their sh*t pretty often.

Brawler fits Buffyverse Slayers, they are also well known to be adaptable especially Buffy herself.

It gives you good HD and Full BAB, Flexible Feats which allows her to fight the way she wants to in that moment.

Thanks! I was thinking the same thing, but "brawler" is such a disappointing name haha. And there's no fantastic archetypes for Buffyverse slayers in Brawler, unlike Grave Warden for Slayers... Hmm. I was thinking *maybe* Strangler archetype?

Hey there pals,

I'm trying to build a Buffyverse Slayer for a homebrewed campaign, and I thought, there's a class literally called Slayer, this is perfect!

However...It may not be. The paizo slayer uses weapons, and although there is the Grave Warden archetype (which would help add flavor), the TV series slayers only used wooden stakes sometimes, but mainly used their fists. Why? Their fists were stronger than any weapons, because of the special power of being a slayer.

I looked at the other thread on here from 2012 suggesting that a Buffyverse slayer be a Monk, and I kind of agree with it, but now that we have the Slayer and Brawler classes out, or maybe even another option I hadn't thought of, there's so much more diversity! CHOICES!

Any advice? :)

silvermage wrote:

Hi, I'm just wondering what miniature everyone else has picked out for Meyanda? I'm having a really hard time finding anything that looks like her ahaha.

Best miniature I found was this one.

Very cool! I ended up buying this for Meyanda. The horns aren't already attached and I'm going to sand the side of her head down to smoothness, and use some air-dry metallic epoxy to make her sword into a gun haha. :)

silvermage wrote:

Hi, I'm just wondering what miniature everyone else has picked out for Meyanda? I'm having a really hard time finding anything that looks like her ahaha.

Check out this thread; there's a good one in there:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qv27?Iron-Gods-FanMade-Goodies

That does look awesome! Thanks everyone :) I ended up buying a metal "Pirate Queen" mini from... Some war game? She has horns, but I'm just not going to attach them to her head, and am going to try and smooth down the side of her head. Sculpting the arm thing and transforming her sword into a gun. Wish me luck :D

Hi, I'm just wondering what miniature everyone else has picked out for Meyanda? I'm having a really hard time finding anything that looks like her ahaha.

'Sani wrote:

Drop him as a DM. Drop him as a boyfriend. Drop him like a bad habit.

There are other games, other GMs, and much, MUCH better boyfriends.

Seriously? This is your advice? After reading some posts on a message board? Seriously? I would be very careful to give that sort of advice to a friend I knew well, and interacted with in person regularly with regards to a relationship that has lasted 4 years. You know absolutely nothing about thier actual relationship and only know part of the story about this gaming situation. Think before you speak. Possibly, think and then dont speak.

Lol, if we broke up every time we got into an argument, we would never have made it to 4 years :) This is not our first disagreement and it certainly won't be our last.

silvermage wrote:

But yeah, he basically said "No re-gaining or buying back the permanent level loss." Which is why we resorted to resurrection, so she wouldn't be like level 3 and the rest of us at Lvl 6...He ALSO said we only had until the body was rotten to resurrect her...but the rules say 10 years. I feel like he just kinda BS'd the ruling on this.

There is no such thing as "level loss" in Pathfinder. You GAIN a negative level "For each negative level a creature has, it takes a cumulative –1 penalty on all ability checks, attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, Combat Maneuver Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. In addition, the creature reduces its current and total hit points by 5 for each negative level it possesses. The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed. Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels. If a creature's negative levels equal or exceed its total Hit Dice, it dies.

A creature with temporary negative levels receives a new saving throw to remove the negative level each day. The DC of this save is the same as the effect that caused the negative levels.

Some abilities and spells (such as raise dead) bestow permanent level drain on a creature. These are treated just like temporary negative levels, but they do not allow a new save each day to remove them. Level drain can be removed through spells like restoration. "

Even with all that- just a Restoration spell and you're back.

I will try bringing that up with him. As much as he wants to be loose and lenient on the rules, I don't think he would just flat-out make a new rule that hurts the party, on purpose.

silvermage wrote:

Edit: YES your summary was spot-on, all except for the negative level bit. We leveled up after she died, so everyone else went to level 6, and when we brought her back, he told her that she had just enough XP to be level 5. Just so she didn't have to change anything on her character sheet and go back down to level 4, which is probably what he would have preferred, but he was "being lenient."

If he talks to you about this again, stop using the word You. Never start a sentance with you. Talk about how you feel, talk about your views. "I think its important to know what the rules are ahead of time, I think its important to ensure balance in level and wealth among the players and among the wealth by level assumptions pathfinder makes. I am concerned that a player that is lower level will end up struggling even more later on, possibly dying again. Especially since pathfinder has no 'catchup' mechanic like 3.5 did where lower level characters get additional xp. What do you think?'

When you start sentances with You do this, or You dont do that, you automatically put him on the defensive, and reduce the chances of a productive conversation.

You are right. I actually forgot about that, maybe because I just woke up to his text and responded while still half asleep lol ... Probably should stop doing that. Maybe it is a good thing that I will have to repeat all of this to him later lol. I don't know how I forgot that. I'm a psychology major for the love of...

Edit: YES your summary was spot-on, all except for the negative level bit. We leveled up after she died, so everyone else went to level 6, and when we brought her back, he told her that she had just enough XP to be level 5. Just so she didn't have to change anything on her character sheet and go back down to level 4, which is probably what he would have preferred, but he was "being lenient."

He just responded to me suggesting that I leave his RotRl game.
"I think the problem comes from me just being a loose gm, i pretty often change prices on the fly, cause i dont think the CRB prices are high enough for some things. Also, i dont feel like my choices as GM are being respected. I always have to fight with you when you rules laywer me, when pathfinder isnt a competitive game. You never do that to any other gm, im sure. And it makes me really sad, cause i wanted pathfinder to be our thing, that we can take casually, but you clearly take it more seriously than that. And you clearly prefer other games. So honestly, i cant stop you from leaving my campaigns, even if i want you to stay."

To which I responded:
"Well I fight you on things because you change them to suit yourself and don't realize the impact it will have on the entire adventure...
For example, yes we spent 15,000gp. That is redic and should have bought back the negative level. It should have been a Raise Dead with two Restorations. You could at least make up for it by not forcing her character to become weaker; also, Paizo's rules on losing a level are not "you literally lose an entire level." It's supposed to be able to be bought back. And using your price guide of DOUBLE THE PRICE, which btw will make it really impossible for anyone else to ever get brought back now and will ruin your story continuity because everyone will probably die at some point...ahem. Your double the price. Which is really harsh. Would be raise dead: 10,000. Restorations: 2,000 each. Total: 14,000. But then she gains back all levels lost and levels up... i really can't explain all of this in a text.
Like, that's not taking into account that you won't even re read the haunt and scream at my face for even suggesting you made a mistake. You're a new GM. It happens. And you can tell me "I don't run the core rulebook, it's MY GAME, I'm YOUR GOD, so shut the f~~# up," but then I'll probably cry and never play with you again. You have been really mean to me over pathfinder lately... And while I think that you seem to think my "rules lawyering" is me trying to be mean, I am just trying to play it fairly. You, again, don't seem to see the impact that even small changes will snowball into later in the game. Also, you don't tell anyone ahead of time that you are making these changes, which really is common courtesy: we should have known that having you as a GM would mean double the price on Bring Back magic, and various other things, because having a nasty surprise like this (also you lied to my face about the price and that hurt me) is exactly what makes me want to rules lawyer. I don't WANT the whole party to die, but if I just always let you have your way, you rarely do more than skim the rules for a spell or effect and the party WILL end up dead. And then? That's the end of the adventure. Realistically. Sure we can roll new characters but there will be no motivation for them to pick up where our guys left off. "

He's a skimmer so I will have to actually repeat all of this in person later today.. Lol, men wonder why women talk so much; it is because we have to repeat everything we say for them to hear us. C'x Lol...

silvermage wrote:

I sent him a text saying, "Hey I would like to speak civilly with you about Rise without getting my head bit off. And without biting off yours. Can we manage that sometime please? If not, I will need to step away from you as a GM."

I'm like on the verge of tears lol. I really don't want to stop playing. I love this game so much. In AP art in 12th grade, I made miniatures out of sculpey for this game. That s%@@ took hours. This is a really big part of my life. I don't want to have my main campaigns just taken from me because I can't get along with his BS rulings...

I have half a mind to say f*ck it, rules don't matter, let's not use rules any more. But then I know he will continue doing annoying BS like this and it bothers me so much.

Also it's 3:39AM here....

Same time here, and I almost thought AP meant "adventure path", but only for about a second. I think playing will cause more grief than not playing. It sucks. I had to stop gaming for over a year, twice, because I could not find compatible people.

Will you have wifi when you go back to college? I have never been to university so I don't know how difficult it is to get wifi in your dorm room, assuming you stay in a dorm. Yeah, I am going back to the roll20.net idea.

Haaa so unfortunately I also live at home and commute to college... And our whole group goes to the same school, and we will be gaming after school once a week during the school year...

Basically, my options are:
1. Quit ruleslawyering altogether. Give in to his god complex. Don't care about my character or the other characters. Play by his rules. See if anyone else starts double checking him maybe...
2. Quit the game.
3. Try to talk to him, get him to fess up to what he did, and give us our gold back. Have him do his actual job and look up the rules when he needs to... Lol notgonnahappen.

Let me offer an alternate solution. Just because you and he arent a good fit for RPGs together, that doesn't mean that either of you has to quit playing them. Just that of would probably be better if you didn't play them together. If someone else is willing to be a GM, then you could play with the group, minus your boyfriend; while he continues his game with the group minus you.

Unfortunately, he is the only one who owns the adventure path, and also my other group members wouldn't meet up two days a week just for me. I feel like none of them like me that much anyway. One always tells me to stop looking up rules even when it's for our benefit...The other is his GF and she says I am game thirsty and is super passive, which is probably why her bf thinks he can boss me around too. The other guy in the group owns the house we game in and he doesn't seem to mind me, but he GM'd once for the other two and sent a DC 20 monster after them on first level.......... >_____>;;

silvermage wrote:

I have used roll20 at someone else's house, whose GM style is computers. Hahaha. Also I don't rules lawyer there because they are veterans of this game and I trust their combined knowledge. It's not full of this stress I get from playing with the BF. Maybe I do just need to stop playing...but I'd be sad cuz I want to finish the games I am playing with him right now, and then he'd probably not have as much time for me because he'd have to choose between pathfinder and girlfriend...

Also I just play every chance I get because I love this game a lot :T

IF possible you can hang out without playing, but he might get upset. Of course he will also likely be upset that your playstyle and his don't match up. Oh well I guess you can see how it goes, but I do think you need to step away from his table.

I sent him a text saying, "Hey I would like to speak civilly with you about Rise without getting my head bit off. And without biting off yours. Can we manage that sometime please? If not, I will need to step away from you as a GM."

I'm like on the verge of tears lol. I really don't want to stop playing. I love this game so much. In AP art in 12th grade, I made miniatures out of sculpey for this game. That shit took hours. This is a really big part of my life. I don't want to have my main campaigns just taken from me because I can't get along with his BS rulings...

I have half a mind to say f*ck it, rules don't matter, let's not use rules any more. But then I know he will continue doing annoying BS like this and it bothers me so much.

Also it's 3:39AM here....

silvermage wrote:

It's Rise of the Runelords, not a homebrew. I guess I wasn't very clear on that. But yeah, ultimately I think you're right. He has the right to do whatever he wants...we just have to deal with it for, forever. Especially me since he's my BF. He's the only person we know who can GM in the same schedule as everyone else, and also hates being a PC. We're already talking about doing Skulls an Shackles after RotR. //deep sigh.

I would not be too pleased with this GM. I am often the GM in our games (used to be all the time), and over the years I have come to the conclusion that I get very upset with a GM who adds houserules in secret or after the fact. I am sorry your situation is more complicated since he is your Boyfriend.

Either they should be public and up front, and you can build your character knowing they are there, or they need to be made known before the session. If the GM is houseruling something about a class spell or ability, it needs to be before the character is built, or he needs to allow the player to respec/build a whole new character at the same power level.

The most common offender of this is removing the WBL balance or changing magic item accessibility for instance. If that's something you want to do (it's a bad idea IMO) fine, but I need to know that before I build a character, because I want to know in advance that you'll be nerfing fighters, rogues, barbarians, etc, when I am choosing what class to play (so I know that at your table I only play Tier 1 spellcasters, because I won't have any fun playing anything Tier 3 or lower and constantly getting screwed over by the lack of equipment).

I've had this kind of complaint with a few GM's I gamed with in the past. IMO yes he can change the rules of the game; But you should be allowed to know the rules of the game in advance.

I should say, I don't necessarily disagree with your GM making resurrections be more costly; I've run games where that spell didn't exist before. However, as others have mentioned,...

Your first players sound awful haha. Unless you had fun with that?

I guess this means I should break the news to the rest of the people in our group... But I want to give him a chance to do it himself next session, so he doesn't get angry at everyone "ganging up on him." I will try again another day, we have until next Friday before our next game.

Edit: I was considering just not telling them about exactly how dicked over we got. It might ruin the game experience for them, and it's hit or miss. They'll either be mad at him for dicking us over, or mad at me for being a rules lawyer. Either way, he'll be upset.

Basically, PC/ my group's perspective: Paladin tried to stop Sorcerer child from Coup de Grace, sorcerer punched with a spell and killed self anyway. Horrified, we ran around the town begging for good prices on our possessions and asking people for donations. Finally had 15,000gp, and bought back our friend's soul...but now have no money to buy much-needed items and armor. Paladin doesn't care, gonna take a few days off and hug little child sorcerer and help her catch a bunny. Thankful to have child back, praise be to Desna.

My perspective: We just got robbed blind. How does he even benefit from taking our gold? If we don't progress, he will get bored and so will we. We may all die now anyway and have no continuity in our story whatsoever since bringing back the dead costs 15,000 for a basically a simple Raise Dead still with one permanent real negative level.

I'm pretty upset, but they don't need to be....

I have used roll20 at someone else's house, whose GM style is computers. Hahaha. Also I don't rules lawyer there because they are veterans of this game and I trust their combined knowledge. It's not full of this stress I get from playing with the BF. Maybe I do just need to stop playing...but I'd be sad cuz I want to finish the games I am playing with him right now, and then he'd probably not have as much time for me because he'd have to choose between pathfinder and girlfriend...

Also I just play every chance I get because I love this game a lot :T

silvermage wrote:

I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.

See what I mean, Simon. Having run the adventure myself if the OP described it correctly I am 99% sure he did read it incorrectly however being a new GM I can understand how it happened.

Yep, I'm pretty sure it's incorrect but I haven't read it myself so I don't know. I just know from what people have told me on here.

You have a boyfriend who lashes out at you yelling when you question a ruling that has just been brought up, didn't enjoy the game as a player, is power-tripping as a DM and refuses to even discuss his rulings in a co-op game.

Lose him as a DM. Lose him as a player. Lose him as a boyfriend. You seem to make excuses for him yelling, disrespectfulness and rudeness towards you and that isn't giving you equal footing in this relationship. 10 years from now you will be saying when someone asks how you broke your arm "I shouldn't have made him mad, it's my fault for pushing his buttons".

Run. Don't look back. A creative gamer chick is a good thing to find and all women should be treated with respect in all situations.

He has never harmed me physically, and our relationship os over 4 years old. Outside the GMing world he is a lot different. Not trying to make excuses here, just. He is kinda a hit and miss GM, this is one of the times he has made a miss, and he probably knows it so he is being extra defensive. It's not like in-your-face screaming, it's more like "God dammit, would you stop already? These are my rules, this is my game, STOP."

Edit:

Simon Legrande wrote:

Maybe he's only doing that because you're always on his case about the rules. Maybe it's time to set the book aside and try to enjoy the game. You know he's not going to kill you, why do you have to have your face in the book at all times? Maybe just let the game happen for a while.

Because lack of consistency sucks for sum, and it makes it hard to enjoy the game. I am also sure this is not the first time something has happened. If she is on his case then he likely did something to cause that to happen, so maybe he can also stop randomly changing rules and admit when he is wrong. Obviously if he said he was giving them a discount he thought he was, but when it was pointed out that he was wrong he got upset. He could have just used raise dead and a restoration(s) instead, and found a way to even do it at half price if he really knew what the correct(by the book) price was.

He was looking at the book when he told us the prices... He knew perfectly well what it should have been but the idea that it should have cost more because that is what "MOST" GM's do, is firmly implanted in his head for some reason. Making him think it is the right thing to do.

Als8 you can easily put in story why y8ur breaking.

In character... majorly in mourning, and teyin to deal withba world that would force someone so young to die in such a way

We WERE able to resurrect her, but for 15,000...and a permanent REAL negative level.

I'm just pretty frustrated. He won't even listen to me for a minute.

if the rest of the party don't care about how he's running things then I say you're options are to drop the issue or stop playing. His version of the game is the rules are suggestions and he makes up the world. So since he's playing his game and the rest are fine with it then you shouldn't press the issue. He's getting mad because to him he's doing nothing wrong, he's playing his game and so are the rest. So you need to decide to play his game or not play. In this situation, assuming you want to stay with him, those are really your two options for handling this well, also assuming not playing is an option for you.

Again, playing fair and right is if all are wanting to play that way. He doesn't and if the rest aren't interested in rules either then you're the one "not playing the game right" of storytelling with some guidelines the GM can modify as he sees fit.

Yeah, you know what I'm probably just going to not play next game and let them

Edit: Or maybe try just not saying anything out of character and keeping notes on things I want to look up later.

That is NOT a sign of a mature individual or a healthy emotional state. If he pops his cork that bad over a simple question, dude needs some help. Get him a checkup from the neck up.

He only gets that way when it is me though. ^^;;

*That I have noticed. Usually if another player asks a question, he just listens. He just doesn't like getting his rules checked, but he has ADD and usually skims things...And you just can't skim the rules and expect to know enough about the game to play it correctly. Sigh. So I try to fill in the gaps. And he sees that as insulting, because I guess it's like constantly being reminded that he makes mistakes? I don't mean it that way though, I just want to play fair and play right. :T He also wants that...he just has a different perspective of what is fair or right.

Wow tablet typing is slow and hard haha.

But, it does sound like u want the game amd rp. They want social engagment.
I would suggest net games fro, roll20. If u need helpd figuring it out could pm me, pretty easy to find really. I recently started a zelda bases one as a player, its neat.

As to him finding this, youve used no names etc, so its just asking unrelates people... not bad,
Maybe the angry bits, but if hes scary angry then it would be good point out maybe.

And constructive critism is good, maybe id it comes up point out its constructive not downing

Typed on tablet

Yeah I like to keep as many people anonymous as I can. Not because I'm making it up, but so they don't have to feel like they must defend their honor and blow up on the forums.

Yeah he just gets loud and pissy. And then yells and refuses to discuss it further...so pointing it out will be hard to do. I can try though, but probably not until tomorrow. We're going to the FLGS tomorrow, so maybe in the car on the way there, or once we are parked, because his rage-driving is scary lol.

I'll try to point that out about constructive criticism, but it will take an extremely high diplomacy check on my part... I will also apologize for any offense I have made and see if that adds to my roll... >____>;; Ha ha ha ... Sigh.

silvermage wrote:

Thelemic_Noun wrote:

silvermage wrote:

darkwarriorkarg wrote:

silvermage wrote:

I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.

You have bigger problems than an RPG.

He just said to our friend while I was in the other room, "I hate it when she does this, she always has to tell me I'm wrong when I literally can't be wrong."

How much of his time is wrapped up in these campaigns? Does he do a lot of work/scout/school stuff too, or does it take up most of his time?

Aaa at this point he doesn't have to go to scouts any longer, he works about 25 hours a week, and we are on summer break from college atm.

DM'ing Pathfinder well is an art form. When did you guys pick it up? If he had picked up a bass guitar then instead, could he competenly freestyle with it by now? That's the level of artistry and commitment needed to be a truly great DM.

And wow, no wifi at the house? Are you in the Midwest by any chance?

Lmfao yeah, he actually does play guitar and has for years and is still learning...as well as I am an artist and have been for at least 12 years, but obviously there is always something new to learn! I know it's allowable for him to make mistakes but, he doesn't seem to get constructive criticism. As an artist, that's just a part of my everyday life. People make comments about how the saturation is too high or low, or there's too mamy light sources, or how one corner isn't interesting enough. You just accept it, fix it, and move on with better knowledge. He seems to think we are attacking him...or rather that *I* am since the other people in our Rise group just don't bother with rules ever and trust everything he says and nearly die, until I, as a last ditch effort, look up the rules myself and say "Well, you missed this section here..." Etc.

I don't know, maybe I am just annoying to the whole group, and nobody gives a shit about the rules but me, because nobody takes it seriously except for me. They use it as a social gathering to talk about TV shows and movies, with a side of Pathfinder. :T

silvermage wrote:

darkwarriorkarg wrote:

silvermage wrote:

I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.

You have bigger problems than an RPG.

He just said to our friend while I was in the other room, "I hate it when she does this, she always has to tell me I'm wrong when I literally can't be wrong."

How much of his time is wrapped up in these campaigns? Does he do a lot of work/scout/school stuff too, or does it take up most of his time?

Aaa at this point he doesn't have to go to scouts any longer, he works about 25 hours a week, and we are on summer break from college atm.

Online PFS play is awesome! You could see a lot of different GM styles (not all of them good mind you) and people who play by RAW(for the most part). Plus there's always games going on so its easy to fit into almost any schedule.

Another sad thing? I don't have wifi at my home, I have to use my iPhone to do anything...for example, typing out all of these messages. So if PFS is skypeable or otherwise phone-friendly then maybe that could work. I don't know how to convince HIM to join though ahaha... It would maybe provide an alternative for me from his GMing though.

Razal-Thule wrote:

OilHorse wrote:

But you are not. Me either. Just seems that everyone dogpiles the person not able to respond. It is almost cartoonish at how this guy is acting....according to the OP. I am just becoming more than a little wary about this whole scene.

I am sure that if they had a more experienced person then there would have been a greater chance that all this is not happening.

I have to agree and maybe its possible he could benefit from talking to an experienced dm sometime in the future or soonish. That could solve some of the problems they are having.

A PFS session at a local store might be a good idea

I would love to do that, but there are no PFS groups around here at all :(

Not picking on you, but you and your boyfriend are expecting different things from the game.

I might leave for a session and see how they deal without me... I'm sure the characters themselves will be okay but... I don't know. It creates stress to play with all of them. Two other PCs are dating and talk about StarWars all the time, there's only one other serious RP'er that isn't me. :T But even e gives in and flies off topic and then we take a really long time to do anything. In Jade Regent with only one other PC, we actually have progressed quite a lot.

I'm not trying to make it a him vs me thing, although that is what this has turned into.

I want to play the damn game and be able to trust my GM. I want to play WITH him, not against him. And I'm trying to figure out how to get him in that same page, because he currently seems to see it as him vs the PCs.

OilHorse wrote:

Simon Legrande wrote:

Maybe he's only doing that because you're...

She seems to ignore certain posts that don't back her.

She seems to dislike his DMing...maybe she should run a game.

That's pretty common, the whole "assure me that this other person is a bad person" idea.

I'm not responding to things I don't know how to respond to.

But yeah everyone let's pick on the girl who's asking for advice on an advice forum, how dare someone request helpful information and god forbid they only have time to respond to comments that make sense to her.

Again, I DID RUN A GAME, and he purposely made it impossible for it to progress by making his character go the opposite direction. It was a bad experience and gave me insight to how bad players act, and told me that I can't expect to GM with him as a PC EVER. Thanks for reading all of the information I have posted before.

I'm in his house right now about to play Jade Regent and he had to bring up the death in Rise today, so I mentioned that he read the rules wrong on the haunt and he told me that I was wrong and he said he refused to even reread the rules just to make me feel better.

Simon Legrande wrote:

Maybe he's only doing that because you're always on his case about the rules. Maybe it's time to set the book aside and try to enjoy the game. You know he's not going to kill you, why do you have to have your face in the book at all times? Maybe just let the game happen for a while.

That is a very strange statement to make in a thread about a GM killing off a PC by pure fiat, charging the party three times the usual cost for raise dead, and never letting them lose the negative level. (Or was it a full on, pre-Pathfinder level loss?)

But yeah, this is sounding less and less like a nice happy healthy "let's all get together and have fun sort" of gaming group silvermage is in. Always good to clear the air as best you can with one of those.

Full on LEVEL LOSS. :/

silvermage wrote:

I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.

You have bigger problems than an RPG.

He just said to our friend while I was in the other room, "I hate it when she does this, she always has to tell me I'm wrong when I literally can't be wrong."

Sigh....

I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.

silvermage wrote:

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

I'm really amazed that so few people have pointed out that the real problem seems to be the poor relations here. The GM reacts rudely to questions, getting "mad" to the point that the OP is concerned he'll get "even madder" if he finds out she's still dissatisfied with the ruling. That's not a good attitude to have in many roles, especially that of the GM.

The unfortunate thing is, I can't change how he reacts to things. I can only change myself. Maybe if I approach the topic in a specific way I can avoid his annoyance, and avoid him threatening to ragequit.

Me: "But you specifically said before that the church didn't try to make a profit off of anything they sell when they sold us the holy water. So I don't know what the extra 5000 was for... sigh."
GM: "They make money through rituals.
but seriously stop f%+&ing doing that. you are not gm. the CRB is not gm.
literally the most annoying thing is being told im wrong when actually i control the game world. Like that makes me not want to play."

I know I could have probably phrased my own sentence differently, but come on. He's not wrong, but he's also not right I feel...

Get out, get out now. If this were about anything but running a game I'd call this an abusive relationship. It's definitely an abusive player and DM relationship. You don't deserve this for pointing out rules mistakes, you don't deserve this for knowing the rules. If he wants to run a game where the players are not supposed to know the rules, that's Paranoia. Maybe some flavor of AD&D 1e or 2e. In Pathfinder we're supposed to know the rules, they're printed in the book for a reason. If he verbally abuses you and threatens not to run unless you do something it's abuse, plain and simple.

Nah, he's just fed up of my rules lawyering, but it really changes the game when he just changes rules to suit himself.

I have GMed RotRL (great AP) and i remember that haunt (my player survived it by nat 20 on the fort save), it's basically a save or die if the PC is alone and/or the other PCs are late to act.

I have to ask, how were you going to make money out of selling the holy water your character made? the spell requires 25gp material component and you sell it for 25gp, so how did you plan to make money out of it? (are blood magic shannenigans involved?)
In the same vein how did you made money out of selling scrolls of CLW?

Now for a question on the GM, why does he do that? i am talking about the way he treats the rules and his game? is it a time issue? (swamped IRL?)

My paladin tried to stop her but got attacked and then had to watch her adopted child kill herself. *shudder* in the previous room, the same sorcerer attacked the nearest female which was me since they are always together, but paladin forgives and tries to help her dear child. It was actually really traumatic, that we couldn't save her, although I'm the only one who tried it should have been enough.

Lol I have no idea, I was probably confused and we had a month ? In game to make money. I was just randomly like "I made this can I sell it?" It was assumed that I spent one day making and one day selling scrolls... I sold them to adventurers at Ameiko's inn if anyone was curious lol.

And nope, he literally obsesses over the aesthetics of the game and the story, but not really the rules. We aren't in school right now, but will be starting year 2 of college soon. We both have a job but, we only work 3-4 days/week.

I'm really amazed that so few people have pointed out that the real problem seems to be the poor relations here. The GM reacts rudely to questions, getting "mad" to the point that the OP is concerned he'll get "even madder" if he finds out she's still dissatisfied with the ruling. That's not a good attitude to have in many roles, especially that of the GM.

The unfortunate thing is, I can't change how he reacts to things. I can only change myself. Maybe if I approach the topic in a specific way I can avoid his annoyance, and avoid him threatening to ragequit.

I know I could have probably phrased my own sentence differently, but come on. He's not wrong, but he's also not right I feel...

silvermage wrote:

Well anyway, today a character died. We were in the haunted house from RotR in the 2nd book, (5th level characters at this point,) and she cut her own throat open with a sharp length of wood that she thought was a dagger. My paladin tried to stop her but she counter-attacked and surpassed my AC, then proceeded to kill herself.

Obviously it's too late to do anything about it now, but you should have your GM take a closer look at the wording of that haunt. He absolutely ran that wrong.

** spoiler omitted **

Making those haunts more deadly than they are is a rather bad idea, since that's just going to encourage the party to avoid triggering them, missing out on a huge chunk of experience, and missing out on the unfolding story behind the location.

He did have her do the damage, I tried to stop her and she attacked me, but then continued with the coup...she rolled pretty badly on the fort save as a sorcerer. I'd say something to him about it but I think he'd just yell at me for knowing anything about it at all.

But it's exactly things like that that make me double check him often... Now the party is down 15,000 gp and our sorcerer is a level behind forever. :(

Silvermage,

DMing is a lot harder than it looks at least while you are learning. Like anything it takes time to not only master all the rules but feel comfortable with yourself and the game to sometimes just be wrong.

The DM will NEVER stop making mistakes. There is just far to many rules and little things to keep track of to remember it all 100% of the time. Then there are thousands of judgment calls to worry about,good lord who never makes errors of judgement?

All the while he is learning he has other people checking up on him. You didn't do that right! This rule isn't how it was meant to be! You charged to much for this!

It takes a world class nice guy to do all that and not get defensive as all get out!

We will not even get into players going to the boards and questioning the DM's calls with the forums! Good lord! Cut a guy a break already!

Look,I'm not saying your DM isn't wrong sometimes or even petty or touchy at times(I know I can be). The way your going about it though is going to make it worse. At least you stopped looking up rules during the game,now try stopping afterwards.

If you want to help him out and make your games better try this.

When you guys are hanging out not gaming and he is working on the game or just playing video games or whatever...read the rules. Anything you find that is different or just something you didn't know bring it up.

Bringing rules up when you don't have any sort of agenda and talking about them can really help your DM (and you) learn them better. Also if he wants to make rule changes there is no better time to find out than when you are not playing and you life isn't on the line!!

Think of it like this.

What if you guys meet with your friends one night a week at your house and everyone gets hungry.You take it on yourself to go to the store and buy all the food and drink.Come home and spend hours looking up recipes and cooking the meals and really hope everyone is happy.

Then your boyfriend starts eating and then starts...

Hey hey, I'm the one helping him set things up and make maps. Also this is the first time I've asked anything on these forums- I usually just ask a more experienced player if we have random rules garbage. And I NEVER used to, until one day, I mentioned this, where he made the pre-boss cast "protection from good" on itself, and nearly killed everyone because everyone with the good descriptor was told that they couldn't do damage. There was one fighter and a druid's familiar that were able to anything at all. The spell actually gives them a deflection bonus to AC and a resistance bonus to spells...it is a +2 bonus. Aka not the invincible monster he turned it into. That had everyone pretty upset, especially because I asked him to read it again to make sure, and he said he did.

And he was being inconsistent, saying one day that the church doesn't make a profit off of what they sell (when my character made holy water to sell and he said they wouldn't buy it) and then saying they charged us a 5,000gp service fee. And then lying to my face by saying he made it cheaper than what the book said it should be... And not allowing us to buy off the permanent negative levels. It's just frustrating and hurtful; he was telling me tall tales about how MOST GM's charge 100,000 for a resurrection but from reactions on here that is not the case. His logic is "you're bringing somebody back to life, of course it is expensive!" Yes I agree, but 10,000 is expensive as it is.

Edit: I KNOW he can't know everything all the time. Who can! :) I just wanted a second opinion. Nobody else in my group knows he charged us more. I have kept it to myself. I'm just looking for advice, and this is the advice forum. He does stuff like this quite often, and if it was now and again it would be one thing but it's not. At the same time, he is also pretty careful to take out rooms that he thinks are too powerful, like the shadows in the basement of Thistletop. He is an all-around good GM, and a good guy, who likes our characters and wants us to live. But saying "I want you to live" and "I feel bad about you dying" and then randomly houseruling it so that resurrections will be nigh impossible... I just don't think he understood the impact of what he did by raising the price, and when I pointed out that he made an inconsistency, he basically said "Stop your logic, my word is law," which to me says "I will change the things I said before so it suits me, but it doesn't actually benefit me in any way and it hurts you."

downerbeautiful wrote:

silvermage wrote:

But yeah, he basically said "No re-gaining or buying back the permanent level loss."

That's probably his way of saying "I don't want death to be a trivial matter." Either play smarter, don't get attached to your characters, or learn to live with a respectable penalty.

Yeah, the picture is becoming clearer now.

Silvermage, your Dungeon Master doesn't want your characters to die, but he wants death mean something. I feel the same way. All of you as a gaming group should have a discussion about this. Or, the players should just accept that that is the way it is going to be and try to have fun. I would suggest keeping distance between you and your characters.

However, I admit, this can create issues that perhaps your inexperienced Dungeon Master is not foreseeing. Then again maybe he has a plan.

Life is a learning experience.

I definitely agree that he doesn't want us to die but doesn't want us to shrug off death. And I agree with that! But saying "take Pc deaths seriously," and saying "don't get attached to your character," AND expecting us to roleplay well...is pretty contradictory. As it is, the only reason we have gotten attached is because we have 3-5 hour sessions once a week to twice a month, so we have been playing these PCs for months now. And outside the game, we have been discussing their relationships with each other, building their history, drawing them (we are all decent artists who spend time drawing our characters laughing together) and painting our minis. It's just hard not to get attached ahaha...

That's probably his way of saying "I don't want death to be a trivial matter." Either play smarter, don't get attached to your characters, or learn to live with a respectable penalty.

We get attached because they're only the second characters we have made, and we have spent hours roleplaying their interactions. We all were nearly crying when she died. It was so dishonorable, too, as she got taken over by a haunted room and slit her own throat right in front if her adopted mother who tried her best to stop her...it wasn't really about playing dumb, as we had no control over it, and it was pretty damn devastating. But props to the campaign, it hit us with the feels train pretty hard! Lol!

Edit:

If the GM says the rule is X then the rule is X however I.from what you said I dont think he likes to admit being wrong. An increase in price is different from a decrease.

In the spirit of fairness if he is not making mistakes which I doubt, he should give everyone a list of the house rules up front .

Exactly...when I point out a mistake even as friendly as I can, he gets defensive. I don't think he even thought that there would be PC deaths, though... We have never discussed the cost of bringing back the dead.

ElMustacho wrote:

Lakesidefantasy wrote:

Did the character who was resurrected receive any negative levels? If not, then you got deal. If the character did receive a negative level then the price was high.

Well no.

Have resurrection casted and the permanent level removed costs 12190 gp, counting diamond dust for both spells (10000 and 1000 respectively) and the service paid (15*7*10 and 7*4*10). This isn't neither the best price you can find.

Since they are new players unfamiliar with the rules I was asking because the Dungeon Master in question may have just allowed the character to be resurrected with no negative effects--ala true resurrection. For 15,000 gold that's a deal.

Of course, assuming the character's body was intact and was only dead for a few days, raise dead would have sufficed and resorting to any resurrection spell was overkill. But, being inexperienced players, they may not have known this.

We found a Wand of Gentle Repose a while ago from some necromancer in a basement, and used it to keep the body fresh. But yeah, he basically said "No re-gaining or buying back the permanent level loss." Which is why we resorted to resurrection, so she wouldn't be like level 3 and the rest of us at Lvl 6...He ALSO said we only had until the body was rotten to resurrect her...but the rules say 10 years. I feel like he just kinda BS'd the ruling on this.

I'll put in as well that he can do as he wants. However, it isn't very courteous or fun to do such house rules without any kind of warning. See if he might be willing to put together a list of house rules he will be using in the game... it'll greatly reduce "nagging" and unpleasant surprises.

Also, why couldn't the character have been brought back with raise dead? If he still wanted to have a service fee you could still save some money.

You'll probably hear this a bit, but open and polite communication is one of the best ways to have fun in a game!

He said that Raise Dead would be 10,000 and 2 permanent negative levels that we can't buy back. So the 5,000 extra was more or less so that the player would 't be so far behind everyone else..although she had to give up her ring (the only AC item she had as a sorcerer) to help pay for the extra money.

As a player, you have a right to investigate what the rules are, and explain them to the GM if you think (or know) that he is doing them incorrectly in accordance to the book. You also have the right to speak to your GM and voice your concerns and "complaints" (for lack of a better word) that ruin your gaming experience, and if he denies or simply becomes ignorant with such a request, the player then has a right to leave the group and find another that suits their playstyle (though this is usually a last resort).

Simultaneously, the GM has a right to deviate from the rules, as long as he makes the players aware and clear as to what those changes are; if something comes up in the game and the rules are unclear or inconsistent as to how the situation is handled, the GM has the right to make a ruling, and run with it from there.

That being said, this is a problematic, and constantly debated topic; many people feel that the value of Resurrection, Raise Dead, etc. is too cheap when they come online, so they enhance the cost of cash, or include some other sort of price (usually a price in blood, power, etc.) The GM is correct on this regard, and if he wishes to up the ante, per se, then that's his call; as you said, this is the first PC death of the campaign, so it's not unreasonable for him to assert a ruling, since this is the first.

However, it's also something that should've been brought up, since character infidelity is an important subject of the game, so it is both his fault and not yours, while at the same time your fault and not his. It becomes quite a sticky situation, and not one that can be remedied simply by talking, since both parties involved have merit to their claims.

My suggestion? Roll with it. PC deaths seem quite uncommon at your table, as this is the first; additionally, it might not be worthwhile to scour up the funds for a resurrection, especially considering a PC may not want to come back. I personally don't mind a PC's death as much, especially when I make a PC up for jokes....

It's not just the first PC death of the campaign...it's our first PC death EVER. We have never played a game where a character died. I currently am also playing Jade Regent with him and another friend, and we finished Dragon's Demand with this group earlier this year. So we never have had the issue of resurrection spells.

@Majuba: Yea, of course! He is my best friend, after all, and this game is something we started playing together after MtG started getting boring and expensive. It IS just a game, but we do take it seriously, and sometimes it leads to quarrelling. I know he doesn't purposely try to dick our PC's over but alas, it happens. Less frequently as he has gained more experience, yes, but when it does happen.... Sigh! But again, relationship is more valuable than a game. :) I personally think he needs more experience as a PC himself to understand how I feel about it. I know GMing is difficult, I tried it one and ugh....NEVER AGAIN! Although he WAS one f my PC's and kept purposely doing things to be difficult...like not caring about the plotline and running in the opposite direction of where he was supposed to go........ Lol.

That being said, from what you've shared, it sounds like the GM is power-tripping on his arbitrary control of the game, and that's a pretty jerk-face things to do to your friends when you're hanging out to have fun. Though in his defense, he is a 19 year old boy, so expecting him to handle anythign with grace or maturity might be asking too much(I shudder to recall what I was like at that age).

Of course, with only hearing one side of the story I might be way off base here.

Hehe... Yeah he has Teenage Boy syndrome. But he usually is nice, and also is an Eaglescout, so he's a pretty responsible and generally Good-aligned guy who does his best and loves his mother.

He was also stressed out cuz he had to get ready for work right after the game, and annoyed because I am pretty much always double-checking the rules after that near TPK where he had "protection from good" make the caster completely damage resistant against any good character. Ahem. But we're all pretty noobish at this so can it really hurt to double check? Aaa...Although the whole table groans when I say "let me check the rules on that." So I have begun checking rules after the game unless it's dire (like we are about to die because we can't do damage and are being murdered horribly) or requested.

Would the player be penalyzed for making a new character? If not, just go with that instead. There are certainly gms out there that dont like how easy resurrection/raise dead is. Thats all well and good, so long as the dead character can be replaced by a new one.

On a more personal note, you should be able to bring concerns to the gm regardless of your personal relationship, just make sure its in a 'I'd like to know how things are in your game' way more then a 'but the rule book says different kind of way'. In this case I'd say something like 'it seems like your charging extra here for that ressurction spell, is there some in game reason for it? Or do you simply want to make it less available? I'd like to know because it would affect our future attempts at such activity."

In the end, you cant 'beat' the gm. He's not obligate to follow the rules in the book any more then he wants to. So finding out what his reasoning is, and going with that is better then trying to point it out as if its an error.

Obviously its hard to get alot of impressions from just a description in the forum, but I certainly hope you can talk rationally with your boyfriend and at least create an understanding between you two on how to make sure the game is fun for everyone. Express your concerns about the wealth level of the party, see what he has in mind. Maybe as mentioned he is planning for a weaker party, maybe he wants a deadlier more difficult game. There are groups where one or more character dies every session and everyone has fun with it. If thats what he is going for, low wealth and difficult ressurection is a way to go about it. Understanding what he is going for will be very valuable in having fun within the game he is running.

The only thing about this particular character, she was a cute child Tiefling and my Aasimar paladin thought of her as an adopted child, and the catfolk Ranger and the Monk also adored her. Realistically, they would work to do what they could to bring her back. The player also really loves her character. Me? I don't like Aasimars or paladins, but he specially requested I make one for the flavor, so I did. I've grown to like her but I can't get over the Mary-Sue-ness. If my paladin died, it would be a noble and heroic death and I'd roll a new character and be done with it. (lol: Sandpoint, the Aasimar-killing Town. Aasimars, beware!)

Note: He also allowed Ameiko and the Sheriff (forgot his name) to give us a total of 2,500gp, but without that we never would have been able to afford it at 15,000gp.

He is right that as the GM he's allowed to set rules and change them as he wants. This is a home game so it's not official. In this situation the rules are guidelines. As long as he's aware of the consequences and accounts for them you're fine. I have a GM whose given us the wealth of a 3~4 lv character by lv7. We finally got +1 weapons last level. Thing is though he knows this makes us weaker so he modifies the Difficulty of encounters for it. Also makes us try to figure out how to make due on less. So you're fine bringing it to his attention of what the "rules" say. But as the GM he is the one setting the rules. IF it's bad enough, just don't let him GM after this campaign. Just set it up that other people are in charge and then he's a player. Now I do say he overreacted based of of what you've said.

It's Rise of the Runelords, not a homebrew. I guess I wasn't very clear on that. But yeah, ultimately I think you're right. He has the right to do whatever he wants...we just have to deal with it for, forever. Especially me since he's my BF. He's the only person we know who can GM in the same schedule as everyone else, and also hates being a PC. We're already talking about doing Skulls an Shackles after RotR. //deep sigh.

That being said, he has taken precautions to try to ensure that we live. He has taken really stupidly powerful rooms out of several dungeons, such as the basement of Thistletop. He doesn't WANT us to die, but...sometimes he seems to think of it as a "PC's vs GM" kinda thing, except he is allowed to hack the console and enable god mode.

@Lake, yes she took one negative level.

Okay hi!

So we had our very first player death today. It was our GM's first too, we're all friends IRL and he hasn't got a lot of experience GM'ing. (We're all 19 and this is our second adventure.) He says I'm an anmoying rules lawyer but he has nearly TPK'd us before with faulty rules...

Well anyway, today a character died. We were in the haunted house from RotR in the 2nd book, (5th level characters at this point,) and she cut her own throat open with a sharp length of wood that she thought was a dagger. My paladin tried to stop her but she counter-attacked and surpassed my AC, then proceeded to kill herself. He said Resurrection cost 15,000GP, and that he was making it inexpensive because he felt bad. My paladin had made 4,000 off of selling scrolls of CLW, but everyone else had 6-700GP. We sold a bunch of stuff, plus the dead PC's ring of force shield, and finally we had enough. We had the newly erected church of Desna preform it for us.

So, being curious about the cost since he mentioned how kind he was being about price, I looked it up. Resurrection costs 10,000gp...What?

When I asked him about it after the game, he said the 5,000 was for the service. I reminded him that he had told us specifically before that the church don't try to make profit off of their services but ask for a donation...which is optional. his response was basically "Because I'm the DM, this is MY GAME, and I can run it however the hell I want. You're being annoying, you can't tell me I'm wrong because it's MY GAME. I'm not running the Core Rulebook, I'm running MY GAME! SOME GM's have the cost of a resurrection at 100,000 gold! You guys are LUCKY!"

Um....

He also happens to be my boyfriend of 4 years, and if he reads this I know he'll probably be mad at me. More mad than he is now.
But I just want to know the proper way to respond to this? My much more experienced friend who also plays PF said that it wasn't something he should have done, and had never played a game where resurrections costed more than 10,000. In PFS the gp cost is usually around 11,000 right? I just feel like it was unfair... We now have literally no money, which will eventually cripple us when we need better weapons and armor. Like, my AC is only 19 and I'm a now 6th level Paladin!

So am I being a terribly naggy girlfriend/player, who needs to shut up, or is he in the wrong? Like...honestly I don't know how he could ever say he's not running the CRB. Then WHY did I spend $50 on it? His response and blatant lying to my face about making the resurrection cheaper than it should have been just has me feeling really not good about the game right now... :/

So, what exactly do you have to do to get past the personalizing deal?

Just try to be patient... It WILL work eventually! Just wait a full minute, refresh the page, and try clicking on the download link again. Also, if you haven't already, click to download all 4 separate ACG files...I don't know why there's 4, but there is. That's pretty much what I did, and that seemed to work for me.

May Desna grant you ALL of the luck!

Hey, I'm not sure why it isn't working for you guys! I had the same problem, but after manually refreshing the page and clicking 'download' on all 4 options, eventually one worked! :D

EDIT: Also, Herolabs says "Coming August 14th!" But it has been August 14th for 3 1/2 hours for me already.... Nyehhh :< Does anyone know when it will actually update to Herolabs?