GM making Resurrection cost more...


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
silvermage wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
silvermage wrote:

Edit: YES your summary was spot-on, all except for the negative level bit. We leveled up after she died, so everyone else went to level 6, and when we brought her back, he told her that she had just enough XP to be level 5. Just so she didn't have to change anything on her character sheet and go back down to level 4, which is probably what he would have preferred, but he was "being lenient."

If he talks to you about this again, stop using the word You. Never start a sentance with you. Talk about how you feel, talk about your views. "I think its important to know what the rules are ahead of time, I think its important to ensure balance in level and wealth among the players and among the wealth by level assumptions pathfinder makes. I am concerned that a player that is lower level will end up struggling even more later on, possibly dying again. Especially since pathfinder has no 'catchup' mechanic like 3.5 did where lower level characters get additional xp. What do you think?'

When you start sentances with You do this, or You dont do that, you automatically put him on the defensive, and reduce the chances of a productive conversation.

You are right. I actually forgot about that, maybe because I just woke up to his text and responded while still half asleep lol ... Probably should stop doing that. Maybe it is a good thing that I will have to repeat all of this to him later lol. I don't know how I forgot that. I'm a psychology major for the love of...

Psychology majors are not immune to psychological effects. But if its a habit thats common, it probably goes a long way to explain why he's so hostile to your point of view if he feels attacked.

I can say there are positions in my life in which I get extremely defensive under criticism. First is when I am gming, not because I think i am gods gift to the game or anything, but I am juggling a lot of things, and have put alot of work into doing this thing in the hopes my friends and I will have fun. So when i am doing it, I genuinely feel vulnerable and am looking for approval and positive results. Criticism DURING the game, is tough to swallow regardless if its warrented or not. And almost nothing is going to put me on the defensive faster.

Except the other thing. Criticism from a significant other. I am vulnerable to the people I love. Particularly the person I choose to love (my significant other as opposed to my family). Criticism from them is harder to swallow because of how much their views matter to me. Not that they shouldnt criticize me if I do something wrong, hurtful, stupid etc. But its never an easy moment.

I am obviously speaking for myself here. But something tells me that your boyfriend has similar vulnerabilities. And when one feels vulnerable and iscriticized, one gets defensive, and often hostile. You know him better then any of us could. This is important to both of you. Treat it as such. Talk about it the way you would talk about other important differences or conflicts.


Kolokotroni wrote:
'Sani wrote:


Drop him as a DM. Drop him as a boyfriend. Drop him like a bad habit.

There are other games, other GMs, and much, MUCH better boyfriends.

Seriously? This is your advice? After reading some posts on a message board? Seriously? I would be very careful to give that sort of advice to a friend I knew well, and interacted with in person regularly with regards to a relationship that has lasted 4 years. You know absolutely nothing about thier actual relationship and only know part of the story about this gaming situation. Think before you speak. Possibly, think and then dont speak.

Lol, if we broke up every time we got into an argument, we would never have made it to 4 years :) This is not our first disagreement and it certainly won't be our last.

DrDeth wrote:
silvermage wrote:
But yeah, he basically said "No re-gaining or buying back the permanent level loss." Which is why we resorted to resurrection, so she wouldn't be like level 3 and the rest of us at Lvl 6...He ALSO said we only had until the body was rotten to resurrect her...but the rules say 10 years. I feel like he just kinda BS'd the ruling on this.

There is no such thing as "level loss" in Pathfinder. You GAIN a negative level "For each negative level a creature has, it takes a cumulative –1 penalty on all ability checks, attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, Combat Maneuver Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. In addition, the creature reduces its current and total hit points by 5 for each negative level it possesses. The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed. Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels. If a creature's negative levels equal or exceed its total Hit Dice, it dies.

A creature with temporary negative levels receives a new saving throw to remove the negative level each day. The DC of this save is the same as the effect that caused the negative levels.

Some abilities and spells (such as raise dead) bestow permanent level drain on a creature. These are treated just like temporary negative levels, but they do not allow a new save each day to remove them. Level drain can be removed through spells like restoration. "

Even with all that- just a Restoration spell and you're back.

I will try bringing that up with him. As much as he wants to be loose and lenient on the rules, I don't think he would just flat-out make a new rule that hurts the party, on purpose.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
silvermage wrote:


I will try bringing that up with him. As much as he wants to be loose and lenient on the rules, I don't think he would just flat-out make a new rule that hurts the party, on purpose.

Just make sure its a discussion on conceptual changes between 3rd edition dnd and pathfinder, and not during an argument. No one is particularly open to persuasion during an argument.

In 3rd edition for instance, as I mentioned, people who are a level behind the party gain extra xp to 'catch up'. Since pathfinder removed the concept of level loss, and made it relatively easy to recover 'level drain' and 'negative levels' they removed this component to make xp calculations easier.

Explain this to him, not from a you are wrong perspective, but from 'I found out this thing thats different between pathfinder and previous editions of dnd'. And maybe he still wants level loss to be punative. Thats also ok, there are lots of groups with that kind of style, but then talk to him about ways the player can eventually recover, and what his views are on eventually replacing the wealth that was lost to the ressurcetion.

He may also not be aware that the wealth a party has factors into the power assumption the game makes about how strong characters are of x level. Many games in previous editions had very low wealth standards. Pathfinder very much worked to unify things like Save DCs, Attack bonuses, and Armor class around challenge ratings. So if you are missing levels, and magic items that assist in these things that the game expects, the lethality of encounters goes up dramatically.

So talk to him about it. Ask if theres a way he could put in a side task to recover some of the wealth spent on the resurrection over time, and a way for the player to regain those levels over time. He may want the party to work to recover from this loss to make it 'felt' instead of being a passing thing. But I assume from what he has said that he isnt trying to hurt the party. So talk to him about it, but dont argue.


Kolokotroni wrote:
silvermage wrote:

Edit: YES your summary was spot-on, all except for the negative level bit. We leveled up after she died, so everyone else went to level 6, and when we brought her back, he told her that she had just enough XP to be level 5. Just so she didn't have to change anything on her character sheet and go back down to level 4, which is probably what he would have preferred, but he was "being lenient."

He just responded to me suggesting that I leave his RotRl game.
"I think the problem comes from me just being a loose gm, i pretty often change prices on the fly, cause i dont think the CRB prices are high enough for some things. Also, i dont feel like my choices as GM are being respected. I always have to fight with you when you rules laywer me, when pathfinder isnt a competitive game. You never do that to any other gm, im sure. And it makes me really sad, cause i wanted pathfinder to be our thing, that we can take casually, but you clearly take it more seriously than that. And you clearly prefer other games. So honestly, i cant stop you from leaving my campaigns, even if i want you to stay."

To which I responded:
"Well I fight you on things because you change them to suit yourself and don't realize the impact it will have on the entire adventure...
For example, yes we spent 15,000gp. That is redic and should have bought back the negative level. It should have been a Raise Dead with two Restorations. You could at least make up for it by not forcing her character to become weaker; also, Paizo's rules on losing a level are not "you literally lose an entire level." It's supposed to be able to be bought back. And using your price guide of DOUBLE THE PRICE, which btw will make it really impossible for anyone else to ever get brought back now and will ruin your story continuity because everyone will probably die at some point...ahem. Your double the price. Which is really harsh. Would be raise dead: 10,000. Restorations: 2,000 each. Total: 14,000. But then she gains back all levels lost

...

If he wants to change the price for anything from day to day or hour by hour that's fine. He could back that up with 10,000 in game reasons or use real life examples ect.. or he could just save time and say"Cause I said so".

After all there really are places in the world today that don't have modern fixed pricing and will change the price of items you want to buy based on how you dress or what your accent is.You don't get to know WHY they have that price just if you are going to pay it.

He could instead just say"Those type spells don't exist and there is no way to come back from the dead".

He is right.He can't be wrong...unless he is trying to play by the rules as written(I don't know of any DM that does that).It doesn't sound like he is and THAT is what the issue is here.

It will not help you in the least to keep looking in the book and pointing out rule differences,He doesn't care.

I think that really bothers you and is at the heart of the issue.

I also realize that he is a new DM and so isn't doing things the way many of us old timers would.We did things his way in the past and it lead to issues! Hence now we list all rule changes up front and talk about them before starting the game ect..

I don't think he is going to change his DMing overnight so without laying blame at anyone's feet my advice is that you think about it and do one of two things.

Realize that his game isn't going to change and things will bother you but you are still having fun and can live with it and not drag your issue with his game out.

OR

Realize that his game isn't for you and with as much tact and grace as you possess,bow out of his games while still being as supportive as you can be.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Removed some posts and locking this one up. This has really spiraled into territory that isn't best suited in the Advice forum. There are plenty of threads in Gamer Talk that might be more appropriate for some discussion being had here.

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