roll8dn's page

36 posts. Alias of John Almond.


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As a GM, I like getting rid of the "Bloodbath & Beyond" magic marts as a general idea. Supermarkets in medieval-style fantasy always wore at my suspension of disbelief. (As an aside: while there are, I'm certain, some historical examples, the supply needs of such a place would be difficult during the age of pre-industrial transport and pre-assembly line. [This does not mean that it's any less immersion breaking than dragons or outsiders or 20th-level Monks not aging for someone else; it's just one of the peeves I have with low- to mid-fantasy. High fantasy probably should have them, as magic is so ubiquitous that it should really be renamed "technology" in those settings, in my opinion.] Wow, I might've derailed things a bit there...sorry...)

The alternate rules for 3.5 linked above are great; thank you to Galeazzo for posting that. Another potential thing to look at is the Vow of Poverty from 3.5: I know it got a bad rap as it was very game-breaking for Monks, but it did have a fairly good look at non-magic-item boosts. It'd need some re-tweaking (and the above link does that better than I could, I think), but it might be worth a try.

Many of the suggestions here are wonderful. Personally, I prefer either a lower-power setting (E6/E8 Pathfinder is fun for me) or more flavor text for magic items. The former is easier on me as a GM (fewer odd synergistic interactions to take account of, which means easier encounter, treasure, and plot planning), but the latter is more fun for my players (yep, I've got three good ones: all three are wonderful min/maxxers--one's actually the guy I hand potential houserules to and say, "Break this," before implementing 'em--and love their toys, but are also very good at being immersed in character).

Wow, parenthetical statements much? Sorry 'bout that.


Well, I'm currently running an e8 playtest with the Pathfinder ruleset. Here's what I've got so far:

Hit Points:

Spoiler:
All 1st-level PC class characters (not NPC classes or monsters, unless I need to build a particularly tough monster) start with Con score + full HD rather than Con mod + full HD. All PCs reroll 1s on their HD rolls after 1st level.

In addition, I'm using Evil Lincoln's Alternate HP Rule. Also, I'm using something similar to his idea for injury penalties. However, mine are -2 and -4 to all offensive abilities (attacks, skill checks, ability checks, CMB, ability and spell save DCs, etc.) but not defensive abilities (AC, saves, CMD, etc.). A creature is Injured at 50% hp (-2) and Wounded at 25% hp (-4).

Magic:

Spoiler:
I'm including Incantations, from the SRD, to replace high-level spells that might be needed for story purposes, but I've not gotten around to writing any of them down yet.

I've eliminated the following spells from the spell list for either balance or story purposes (in parentheses):

Reincarnate (Story purposes; death is final, for the most part, in the world I'm designing. I want the resurrection of a character to be an epic quest, not a matter of a grand, 10 minutes, a new body, and two negative levels.)

I'm sure I'll wind up including more as playtesting shows what can and cannot be affected by non-magical means. For example, I'm currently thinking over reworking Black Tentacles to make it more counterable by non-spellcasters.

Magic Items:

Spoiler:
I'm allowing alternate +1 abilities to weapons (such as flaming or frost) without the +1 enchantment bonus required by RAW; however, such weapons do not offer their masterwork bonus on to-hit rolls (for balance purposes).

In addition, I'm in the middle of putting together a list of items that can be built with 4th-level spells (and 8th-level casters) and below. I know that the item creation rules have changed for several things with Pathfinder from 3.5, and I'm also in the middle of working through a few changes on that front, as well.

Right now, I've divvied up the various item creation feats into five: Craft Magic Arms & Armor (prereq of Master Craftsman or CL 5), Craft Wands, Staves, and Rods (CL 5), Scribe Scroll (CL 1), Brew Potion (CL 3), and Craft Wondrous Items (CL 3 or Master Craftsman). Rings have been rolled into Wondrous Items.

Skill Checks:

Spoiler:
Unless a player has asked about a specific area for Perception or Stealth or the like, I assume that the characters are taking 10 for all of their checks. It makes encounter design different, but not so much as to throw off what I try to present the players with.

Also, at the beginning of each session, I have my players make ten Perception checks and ten Stealth checks so as to have them ready (and unavailable for metagaming) when the players want to make such a check in the middle of the game. It reduces time spent and also makes for a more certain divide of player vs. character knowledge.

Epic Feats:

Spoiler:
I'm going to include feats that are only available to 8th-level characters who have gained extra experience beyond the total needed to get them there.

I'm still working on these, but I know that I want to include at least one feat that allows spellcasters to craft magic items that have caster level requirements past 8 (I know the rules as written allow you to ignore caster level requirements with an increase in the Craft DC, but I'm treating 8th level as a hard limit on that for now).


My way is similar; if the player's don't actually say that they're going to be attempting something (for example, searching for traps every ten feet or so), I assume that everyone is taking 10.

In addition, I've recently begun asking for Perception and Stealth rolls at the beginning of the session, writing them down, and modding them as needed for situational stuff as the session goes on. That way, if they say they're searching for stuff, I already have the results and don't have to worry about them metagaming over them.

The take 10 thing has worked well for me for years now, and the latter has been going well thus far. The only pitfall with the taking 10 bit is that you have to pay closer attention to whether you want the party to succeed or fail in certain checks (the spider hanging out in the rafters: do you want the party to notice it or do you want it to be an ambush?), since the DCs of their attempts are static now.


Mostly, force decision trees on him. If he's a melee god, allow him to be one. Put dozens of minions (since he's getting 9 attacks a round or so, it'll need to be dozens) in major battles, along with the big baddie, so that the group has to choose whether to take on the minions or the baddie. He can say, "I got this guys, go stop him," and feel good about it.

Throw large, extremely tough monsters at him (giants and dragons come to mind, just as the obvious ones) that he's going to have a tough time going toe-to-toe with. Then throw another monster or two that is less tough but just as dangerous (perhaps an evil necromancer) into the fight. Again, the barbarian can "hold the line" for his friends.

Try what Evil Lincoln set above, a timed encounter that plays to his noncombat strengths. Perhaps a chase scene (the rules in the GM Guide for chases are absolutely excellent, by the way) involving several skill checks.

Really, the way to make everyone feel like they're contributing to the game is to offer each of them a chance to use their abilities in a way that advances the plot.

An example, from a recent game that I played in: I was playing a fighter (an above-average one, but not a completely min-maxed one) in a party that had a half-orc wizard disguised as a barbarian (long story) and a completely min-maxed summoner (whose eidolon was out-damaging the entire party for a while there). We came upon an abandoned wizard's tower that, apparently, was a home for a whole lot of undead. We had to take the tower and rescue the baron's daughter, for who knew what foul things they were doing to her?

Anyway, we managed to make it to the top level of the tower, and came upon a setting with what looked like a Death Knight, a Lich, and several Human Skeletons.

Well, we were only level 7 at that point, but we were probably CR+2 or so on average for our encounters due to party design and wealth. At least for the first couple of encounters (due to a lack of healing). So the encounter wasn't completely out of line, just extremely difficult-looking.

Well, knowing that if the lich got to act, we'd be screwed (even with our eidolon), my character, after winning initiative (+4 dex, II feat), bull rushed the "lich" out the open window behind the throne. Imagine my surprise when it turned out that the "lich" was just an old corpse that'd been clothed in wizard's robes and strung up on a wire so that it could stand. The corpse goes flying out the window to land in a heap on the ground outside, while the "death knight" turns on me and dismisses the illusion of his helm to show a hobgoblin barbarian who is incredibly miffed at my action. The hobgoblin rogues hidden around the room behind tapestries and the like drop their cover and the wires holding the skeletons upright and attack!

It gave each of us something to do; I had to defend my ground against multiple attackers (TWF fighter with really, really good AC), the eidolon had to wade through multiple minions to get to the big baddie, and the wizard had to show his true colors to get at the barbarian to save my skin (I had very low hp, even if my AC was excellent).

It gave each of us something to do, even though it was not the encounter we were expecting.


Well, the "not freezing" aspect of it (from what I understand from a pop science perspective, anyway) is due to the lack of conduction or convection to carry heat away. Radiation is actually the poorest method of moving heat around; this is the reason that vacuum thermoses (sp?) are so effective. Since they have no convection through the vacuum chamber, the chamber walls are made of very-low-conductivity glass, and there's a mirror layer to reflect any radiated heat, they keep their contents warm (or cold) for a good long time.

Now, how that would translate into, "How long does it take a PC teleported into space to freeze solid?" is a little beyond my understanding of the physics involved.


My reading of it is an either/or type of deal. If the folks at Paizo were to release a Unearthed Arcana-type book where all of the rules included in it were clearly marked as optional, then my vote is for 2. That would offer the most utility to me as a GM, as I could adopt portions of it as I saw fit without argument between myself and my players over what is an "official" rule and what is not (not that this happens much with my players, but I've seen it a time or two with other gaming groups I've been a player in).

If not--if the book was marketed as the APG and the rest of the extra content releases have been, where it can be argued that they are "core" rules despite not being in the core rulebook and therefore must be included--then my preference is for 0.

I want more options, not more core rules.


Flak wrote:
So you guys think the DC penalty shouldn't apply to Stunning Fist, bomb splash, etc.? Just spell save DCs?

Good point. How about something like the following: "...and to the save DCs of any offensive class feature, ability, or spell of the character," for wording?


The only reason I can see for using the Fort save method is if your players want to feel as if they have an impact upon the outcome. It's similar to the "Players Roll All the Dice" method I've seen floating around several places, where AC is turned into a Defense Bonus and each player rolls their defense score versus either an opposed attack roll or a static attack DC (turning it into something similar to a save mechanic).

If your players like that sort of thing, it might be for you. Otherwise, I think I'm going to go with the static penalties.

Any thoughts on the 2/3 and 1/3 vs. 1/2 and 1/4 hp speed bumps, though?


Helaman wrote:
roll8dn wrote:


Powerful Rage (Ex): Your endurance while raging is so great that you ignore your exhaustion and wounds. A character with this ability reduces all penalties from the Injured or Wounded states by 2, to a minimum of 0, while in a rage (this means that the character ignores the Injured state and halves the Wounded state). A barbarian must be at least 4th level before selecting this rage power.
I like this idea but may suggest that instead of creating a new feat, or class ability, allow that Barbarians either ignore penalties while raging or give them a new/ free roll on fort save (if we are using that) to resist the effects. <snip for brevity>

I don't intend upon using the Fort save method; I'd prefer these to be static penalties. My reasoning is thus: there are a lot of high-Fort-save monsters out there that have immense amounts of hit points. That means that it's likely that I'd be having to make a Fort save each round from damage after the second or third (and I can almost guarantee that I'd miss it the first few times I used this in combat). I'd rather have only one set of things to look at from behind the GM screen for penalties; it reduces what fighter pilots call "helmet fire". There is already so much crap for a GM to keep in mind when running a combat that any rules changes I make I weigh against extra record-keeping behind the screen.

As far as offering this as a rage power, I want some barbarians to be able to use it, but not all. It represents a mechanical choice for the barbarian, one that is as powerful as the other rage powers available at that level, but not more, in my opinion. I'm fine with it being where it is; it means that some barbarians are so tough they ignore damage, while some aren't. It also neatly avoids the question of, "Does a creature with a feat or feature similar to rage also ignore these penalties?" It allows me to use most creatures out of the Bestiary without having to worry about whether or not I need to read through every last power and compare it to the rage class feature. Again, reducing my behind-the-scenes work.


Here's what I'm currently running with in my e8 playtest:

1.) At 1/2 total hp (rounded down), a creature is Injured and takes -2 to all Attack Rolls, Combat Maneuver Rolls, Skill Checks, Ability Checks, and to its Spell Save DCs. This is regardless of the source of damage (nonlethal excepted; I'm using Evil Lincoln's alternate hp system).

2.) At 1/4 total hp (rounded down), a creature is Wounded and takes -4 to all of the above. This overlaps, rather than stacking with, the Injured condition.

The Diehard feat reduces these penalites by 1 (to -1 and -3 respectively), and I've included a new rage power for barbarians: Powerful Rage.

Powerful Rage (Ex): Your endurance while raging is so great that you ignore your exhaustion and wounds. A character with this ability reduces all penalties from the Injured or Wounded states by 2, to a minimum of 0, while in a rage (this means that the character ignores the Injured state and halves the Wounded state). A barbarian must be at least 4th level before selecting this rage power.

Currently, the only thing that I'm really thinking about changing is the 1/2 and 1/4 hp to 2/3 and 1/3. However, that's due to the extra hp I'm giving creatures with PC levels at 1st (Con score + full hd rather than Con mod + full hd).


Mauril wrote:
roll8dn wrote:
Stuff.
Reach, for most purposes, is treated as movement, especially in regards to 5 foot reach/movement. If you could get there with a 5-foot step, you can get there with a 5-foot reach. The only exception seems to be 10-foot reach (which is called out as an exception to the reach=movement rules).

Thank you. That makes my head hurt less.


Not disagreeing with you here; game mechanics often run counter-intuitively. However, would your Small or Medium sized character be able to reach the side and corner cubes above the ones adjacent to him? Or is that a ten-foot reach, and they can only reach cubes that intersect with a side as opposed to an edge of their cube?


James Jacobs wrote:
ulgulanoth wrote:
so back on topic, a question to Paizo; how has it been like to work with so many 3rd party publishers?

Very, very, very fun and rewarding.

One of the things you give up when you start to work for a game company you love is the excitement of reading a brand new RPG book. By the time we're done designing and editing and laying out and developing and printing and proofing a book, we're pretty tired of it, frankly, but having 3rd Party publishers producing content for the game we love lets us be customers and eager gamers as well. Which is really really nice.

Hrm...never thought of it this way, but the OGL could be considered a job perk. It helps keep the staff of the company (in this case, Paizo) from "burning out" on game material, since they can still enjoy other products--in the same rule system--that they've not worked on. It helps keep product quality up in the same way that offering employees vacations or other non-salary related benefits does.

Interesting idea...


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223.) "Drunk and Disorderly" is not a proper adventuring band name.
224.) Nor is "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap".
225.) Everyone expects the Chelaxian Inquisition.
226.) "Anybody know any good drowning songs?" is not a proper response to the Linnorm ship sinking.


"Hollow?" "Hollow." "F*** it."
Prerequisites:
Bluff 5 ranks, BAB +5.
Benefit: Your ability to bluff your way through life even works on inanimate objects. Against unattended, inanimate, non-sentient objects with a Hardness score greater than 0, you may add your total Bluff ranks to your damage roll when attacking the object.


Drogon wrote:
In order to survive, brick and mortar stores need to do more than whine about what internet retailers are doing. Be proactive, get involved, and provide something that internet retailers can't provide: face to face customer service and a playing environment that is fun, to start with. It's the only way for customers to justify spending more money than they could with "those bastard internet dealers."

This. This, right here, is exactly what brick & mortar stores have to offer. While I am not every gamer (though...maybe...with the right feat structure and spell choice...), I'm willing to spend an extra twenty to twenty-five percent on my purchases for the knowledge that I am going to get good, personal customer service. There's nothing wrong with paying for good service; it's exactly the same as going out to eat and tipping one's server.

As to denigrating a product carried in one's store, well, that's just shooting one's self in the foot. I've worked in the service industry for over a decade now, mostly in the foodservice portion. While I've worked several places that had items I most emphatically did not enjoy on the menu, I would still recommend them to a customer. My reasoning being, that if the customer wants those flavors, we definitely offer them, and at a good quality. I don't enjoy those flavors, and will say so if asked whether I personally like those things, but I will also explain that it is because I don't like those sorts of flavors no matter what--not because of the quality of product. Our customers and employees that enjoy those sorts of flavors truly do enjoy those dishes, and so, I recommend them.

It's the same thing here. Sure, the person spoken to may not like the mechanics of Pathfinder (though, from the description, he seems more annoyed at having to work at finding a market strategy that will keep him afloat than anything else), but that doesn't mean it's a bad product. It means that, if someone likes the d20 mechanics and/or the flavor presented in the Pathfinder campaign information, it's a good product for them. First and foremost, any sort of business presenting a product for sale has to match it as well as possible to the customer's needs. That's the reason that the customer's going to come into the place of business and spend money on the product. If that isn't done, the business won't remain a business for very long. Plain and simple.


"Chill out, d******."
Prerequisites: Charisma score less than 10, Disguise 5 ranks.
Benefit: After one minute's conversation with a native of an area in which you are attempting to blend in to the background, you may use that native's Charisma bonus in place of your own on Disguise checks made within twenty-four hours of the conversation. All other modifiers to your Disguise checks remain as normal.

"Kenner, just in case we get killed, I wanted to tell you, you have the biggest d*** I've ever seen on a man."
Prerequisites:
Inspire Courage Bardic ability, Diplomacy 5 ranks.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can utter a completely ridiculous statement that bolsters the spirits of your comrades. They gain a Morale bonus (which stacks with all other Morale bonuses) on attack and damage rolls equal to your Charisma modifier for a number of rounds equal to one-quarter of your Bard levels (rounded down, minimum 1). This is a sonic, mind-affecting ability.


Laurefindel wrote:

Stamina and deadly are qualitative of lethal damage only. Non-lethal damage still exist as RAW in addition to this system. Correlating stamina and nonlethal damage would be another houserule, which can be beautifully harmonized with Evil Lincoln's Stamina/Deadly IMO, but not without broader impacts on RAW.

In this system, constructs continue to be immune to nonlethal and critical hits (which means that they "break" less). That brings an interesting point since normally constructs don't heal naturally, so what happens to their stamina in this case?

any opinion?

'findel

Personally, I'd go with "Any creature immune to critical hits and/or nonlethal damage takes deadly damage regardless of source," as an addendum to the normal rule.

For example, undead are immune to nonlethal damage. Most of the mindless undead do not heal naturally, anyway, and the sentient ones generally have Fast Healing, Regeneration, Damage Reduction, or are Incoporeal. Therefore, they are mostly resistant or immune to most forms of normal hp damage, recover it without any sort of external help, or don't normally recover it anyway.

Constructs generally have damage reduction, don't heal naturally, and have large reserves of hp.

It doesn't strain credulity for me that these sorts of enemies can take an axe to the face and keep coming; they aren't living creatures, with living creatures' frailties and limitations.


yellowdingo wrote:
clff rice wrote:
I don't have work i just have word pad and works. Only thing i have handy to make a map with is photo shop 7.

I can convert to .png images and you can manipulate in photoshop (or paint in accessories). So email me. I dont have the adventures so I dont know where they would be located on the map.

All you would have to do is mark down sites of each adventure an email me the altered maps (with forest labels, mountain names, community names). I'll turn it into a PDF map.

Open Office might be able to handle the type of file you're thinking of in its native format. If it's a Word document, Open Office should be able to open it. And Open Office is free. Just a thought.


cappadocius wrote:
No, no. He faked his death to get out of paying his back taxes. Aroden is currently disguised as Rory Bellows, a simple salvage operator.

"Dax dodge, smax dodge. You take one nap in a ditch..."

[/Farnsworth][/off-topic]

I do have to say that I'm glad that Paizo has no intention of filling in all of the mysteries that exist in Golarion. It's one of those things that I dislike about most published settings; generally, I use the setting as a background rather than a full world. It gives me easy, pre-made places, people, and cities that are already written about (saving me time on prep), which I can then take and fill in the blanks for with the PCs and their actions.

It's a lot easier to do that when I don't have to worry about every mystery in the world being answered eventually.


Ashiel wrote:


I'm not sure why you would. Animating commoners is a huge waste of resources when you could be animating something else. Honestly, a village of commoners would result in some very dinky skeletons and zombies. It wouldn't be worth the trouble.

Maaaaybe if it was an orc village, but that's just because orc commoners are naturally very strong, and you'd be more likely to end up with orc warriors in the village (who likely have a 17-18 strength score). However, I'd think you were still better off animating animals, 'cause they're stronger.

I mean, a cow is 10 gold. An ox/auroch is 15 gold. You get a big, beefy, super-strong pack animal, who also puts commoner zombies to super-shame. Hell, if you were just out to commit evil and loot stuff, you'd be better off slaughtering the villages the old fashioned way, loading all your loot on your ox-zombies or ox-skeletons, and then leaving the townsfolk all dead, so it wouldn't draw attention to yourself as a necromancer.

Isn't this how that Johnny Cash song got written?

[/off-topic]

From the initial post, it seems that the necromancer is joining a party that already has a paladin in place. If so, the player intending upon playing the necromancer should probably sit down with everyone else and go, "Is this okay?" If the answer is, "No. No it's not," then (s)he should probably not play the necromancer. If it's the other way 'round, the person playing the paladin should probably go with another character concept, as well.

These are all simple issues that can be solved with a few minutes' discussion, saving hours' or perhaps even days' or months' worth of intra-party conflict that really isn't freaking necessary! It isn't rocket surgery, folks. Talk with the people you're going to play with and see what sort of collective story you'd like to make up. Plain and simple, the most important thing about playing a game is to ensure that everyone has as much fun as is possible. Everything else is secondary.


"Aw, H***, I'm a fan of all seven. But right now, I've got to go with Wrath!"
Prerequisites:
5 or more ranks in Bluff, Sneak Attack class feature.
Benefit: Any time you are staggered due to being dropped to 0 hp, you may ignore the penalties of being staggered for one round. In addition, you may make a Bluff check as a move-equivalent action to feint in combat during that round, even if you do not have the Improved Feint feat. This ability is usable once per day.

"Oh, and one more thing, Captain Reynolds: that's the last time you get to call me 'w****'."
Prerequisites: Character must be female, 5 or more ranks in Diplomacy.
Benefit: You may substitute a Diplomacy check for an Intimidate check, at your full Diplomacy skill bonus. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma bonus (minimum 1).

"By the way... you have to ask for absolution to be forgiven... a******."
Prerequisites: Able to cast divine spells, 5 or more ranks in Intimidate.
Benefit: You may sacrifice a divine spell of any level greater than 0 that you are able to cast in order to gain a bonus on an Intimidate check. The bonus is equal to 5 + the spell's level. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).


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169. "Bender did it once," is not an acceptable answer to the GM's questioning my character's motives.
170. The druid's theme song is not "It's Log!"
171. Plague doctors have nothing to do with Michael Keaton.
172. Toraug's high priests do not claim that their anvils "go up to eleven."
173. Baba Yaga didn't come all the way down to Golarion just to find gingerbread for her multiversal Levitt tract home pyramid scheme.
174. No matter how many times you say it, "brain-on-brain action" is not the correct way to refer to an eidolon's link.


Kolokotroni wrote:
<snip for brevity>hmm... maybe I missed something... lets say you somehow have stamina damage greater then your HP + Con score. Are you not dead? In my head this was when the character falls dead of exhaustion instead of any specific wound. It is unlikely to happen, but it isnt impossible. Example. A character had 30 hp and 12 con. The character gets hit for 29 damage that deals stamina damage. He is at 1 hp, the next hit will be deadly. It is a shuriken dieling 2 damage. He is at -1 and dying, but before that he takes a fireball that deils 24 damage, but he makes the save and takes 12 stamina damage. He now at the point where he should die, and all but 2 of the damage is stamina. If that is a lethal situation, then stamina damage cant replace non-lethal damage.<more brevity>

I agree that Stamina shouldn't replace nonlethal damage. However, I think that lethal damage should start at 0 hp, regardless of the type of damage that got the character to that point. I think that nonlethal should simply render one unconscious; at that point, the attackers can choose to make a coup-de-grace against the unconscious subject, as normal, if they want to kill him/her. Once unconscious from nonlethal damage dealt, any HP damage taken should be Lethal in nature--not Stamina.

My reasoning is thus: any hit that reduces your Stamina damage below 0 hp is the sort of cinematic wound that happens at the climax of the swordfight with the EEEEEEEEVIL villain. Y'know, the one where the hero, exhausted from his exertions, finally has his grip slip on his sword, his guard is batted aside, and a blade is thrust between his ribs. It's not a minor hit that simply knocks him down or unconscious; it's a mortal wound that's going to kill him if magic, extreme luck, or really good trauma care doesn't come into play in the next minute or so.

Any hit that reduces your nonlethal damage below 0 is a knockout punch. Like you decided that Mike Tyson isn't quite as tough as he looks on television. If he starts kicking you after you're down, there's no way to avoid the blows--it becomes Lethal damage rather than Stamina damage because the recipient can't avoid the blows. It's fairly easy to be kicked to death once you're down--and there's always the possibility that someone will cut your throat with a penknife (as per the coup-de-grace rules).

So, to summarize my take on this: Stamina damage beyond 0 hp becomes Lethal damage representing a cinematic wound of some sort that finishes off the noble hero, while any damage past 0 nonlethal hp becomes Lethal damage rather than Stamina to represent the helplessness of the target.

Does that seem clear? I'm not sure it is...


Poison: I agree with 'findel; your character is just that tough if he manages to make his save. That deadly draught he had put in his ale by the sneaky assassin simply makes him have some bad dreams that night and feel a little more hungover than normal. If he doesn't make his save, then "Good luck, Chuck! Hope you have your life insurance paid up!"

For nomenclature: How about "Aegis Damage" for Stamina (it has the connotation of, "His plot shields are failing, Cap'n!"[/badScottishaccent], while still being a synonym for defense) and "Wound Damage" for Lethal? It gets away from the Lethal/Nonlethal damage issue, doesn't reference any spell or feat that I'm aware of--note, there probably are one or more of both out there that I'm not, but they aren't in the core rules as far as I know--and is simple enough to remember (though you may have to teach your players how to pronounce "aegis" if they're new to ancient history or mythology).

Oh, and thank you, Lincoln, for being kind enough to share this idea with the rest of us!


Evil Lincoln wrote:

<snip for brevity>

Excellent catch, roll8dn.

I don't think there are too many corner cases, but a list of which damage certain things do is sort of inevitable.

In the case of magic missile, my inclination is to go ahead and have it do deadly damage. You could also make the case that as a force effect, it is more concussive and therefor stamina damage.

Tough call for sure. Anyone got any other corner cases for me?

Personally, I'd go with "failed saves & crits cause deadly damage, nothing else does" for system robustness and ease of adjucatation at the gaming table. The less you slow things down, the easier to use and more transparent a houserule is--which, if I'm reading your posts right, is one of your goals.

Still, I like the idea. Would you mind if I steal it for my upcoming e8 playtest that I'm doing with a friend?


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Well, if any of the party has the GP Rain ability, you could kill the army that way. :)

"Make it hail"?

...Seriously, though: why not open Honest Bob's One-Stop Adventuring Shoppe? Hire craftsmen, animal trainers, blacksmiths, a barkeep or two, and an accountant (always important in this sort of venture!), and open a tavern/inn/armory/sundries store/stable/etc. Put it all together in that town that you own now and PROFIT!

"Come on down to Good Ole Honest Bob's One-Stop Shoppe! Low, low prices! The best quality weapons and armor! The prettiest barmaids this side of the dryad grove! All of your adventuring needs! We'll see you there!"

Or...you could buy yourselves an army.

Or, maybe...an assassin, to kill the pesky nobles running the opposing army?


I like the idea, Lincoln.

However, the spell Magic Missile makes me wonder about your magic damage issues. It's a 1st-level energy (force) spell that has no saving throw and auto-hits unless the target has some sort of counter (Shield, etc.) against it. Would that deal lethal damage?

If not, is it because there is no save for the spell? Or is it because the spell doesn't require an attack roll--unlike Scorching Ray, for example?


CrackedOzy wrote:
Hobgoblins - Idk, I use goblins, bugbears and orcs fine, I've just never see the point of hobgoblins.

Eh, I always saw hobgoblins as the urukhai from that long story that Tolkien wrote. I usually lump orcs and goblinoids under one subtype in my campaign worlds, anyway, so...

I will agree that any monster that has a gimmick to be defeated is less than desirable for use (rakshashas, anyone? I know that's how the myth was, but come on folks...), but I'm unwilling to completely rule out the use of any monster. There are times and places where certain monsters are usable and ones where they're not.

The only monsters that I really try to steer clear of are the ones that will screw the players out of their stuff (rust monster, ethereal filcher, etc.), since part of the game is the players feeling as if they managed to gain something other than xp.


hogarth wrote:
roll8dn wrote:
A wizard, sorcerer, bard, or witch seems your best bet; they all get Summon Swarm as a 2nd-level spell. They all can cast Summon Monster, with the type being vermin or monstrous vermin.
You missed the druid class, that can cast Summon Swarm, Insect Plague, Creeping Doom and Giant Vermin, not to mention that there are a few improved verminous choices on the Summon Nature's Ally list, and there's also a druid variant (Blight Druid) that allows wild empathy with vermin.

Ach, you're right. Sorry.


A wizard, sorcerer, bard, or witch seems your best bet; they all get Summon Swarm as a 2nd-level spell. They all can cast Summon Monster, with the type being vermin or monstrous vermin.

It might be worth asking your DM if you can create custom spells that summon more powerful vermin swarms (the 2nd-level version summons a CR 2 swarm, if memory serves), with the CR of the swarm being equal to the spell level.

Note, though, that swarms tend to be swingy in use against parties. For those that don't have access to area-effect stuff, they're difficult as all heck to beat. For those parties that do, they usually turn out to be a pushover. So augment the swarms with larger summoned vermin as well, is my advice.


Kyle Olson wrote:
File -> Export -> to Text, and you should see the option.

Thank you!


So, I downloaded PCGen a couple of hours ago, to see if I could come at the problem with the PC from that end.

However, the Combat Manager says that it only accepts files of the ".rpgrp" extension (edit: from PCGen, anyway), and I can't seem to figure out how to get PCGen to export to that extension. Am I missing something somewhere?

Thanks folks,
roll8dn


Thank you for the incredibly quick turnaround! I'll keep the information at hand during the game for now.

Thanks again,
roll8dn


Thank you!

Notably, I was attempting to enter a ninth-level fighter PC with the two-weapon fighting and improved TWF feats, weapon mastery +2 in his off-hand weapon, weapon mastery +1 and weapon focus in his primary weapon, and have his attack bonuses for the two-weapon style come out correct.

Right now, it seems that I can't either find the way to enter the weapon mastery class feature or that it isn't implemented in the combat manager section. It also seems that I can't either put the second off-hand attack for ITWF in or it isn't implemented.

Is there something I missed somewhere? If not, that's fine; I'll just keep the character sheet at hand for ease of review.

Thanks again,
roll8dn


This is an amazing program. Thank you for your time and effort.

I was having a few difficulties entering PCs into the manager. Would this be the right place to ask about how to do that, or should I bring it to PM or e-mail?

Edit: or is there a readme file that I missed somewhere?