The fact that this thread exists amuses me. The GM is essentially God, but is wondering how to kill a player? Drop a flaming mountain on his head, that's how :P
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The fact that this thread exists amuses me. The GM is essentially God, but is wondering how to kill a player? Drop a flaming mountain on his head, that's how :P
This is petty and immature. Shame on you.
Just throw a fantabulous tower with awful hazards/gases/acids/broken glass/tarrasques floating all the way to the top, and epic-reverse gravity on him. His sheer expression of terror while plunging into deep space through all kinds of horrors and the time to think about his life during his kilometers-long fall will give laughs to generations of devils, and thus a lot of souls in your pockets.SOULS !
Lots of good ideas.
How about instead of concentrating on the enemies that you start using the environment against this barbarian. The proper environment can whittle down the toughest foe.
For Foes, have you concidered using the new Ninja class in the playtest? I have been taking an interest in this class because it really seems to be the first time they did the Ninja correctly.
However, you can spice this up. Read up on actual Ninja tricks. Like the famous black egg. Hollowed out eggs painted black and filled with finely crushed glass which is thrown into the enemies eyes. This causes the foe not to be able to see so you eliminate sight.
How about four casters who entrap the barbarian with wall spells? Box him in.
Another cool trick that I have done in the past involves will-of-the-wisp and shambling mounds. Now you have a monster that it hard to take down.
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I am NOT trying to kill him. That's too easy and not the point. I am trying to CHALLENGE him with something that won't die in one round or at least put him in a situation that is outside the normal hack-n-slash combat but is still combat.
There have been some fabulous suggestions so far.
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I am NOT trying to kill him. That's too easy and not the point. I am trying to CHALLENGE him with something that won't die in one round or at least put him in a situation that is outside the normal hack-n-slash combat but is still combat.There have been some fabulous suggestions so far.
I know, dude. But like you say it yourself, pretty much all the -real- (and serious) good ideas have already been proposed. ;3
Let's see, things I've used to challenge high level blender-warriors of doom in my many high level Campaigns during the years of my GM'ing reign. (I know some of these has already been mentioned, just listing them for completeness.)
*Traps
*Flying monsters
*Monsters with reach
*Debilitating spells (Blindness, hold person, slow etc.)
*Invisible opponent's
*Ranged weapons
*The spring attack feat
*Illusions
*Concealment
*Rust monsters
*Decoys (Low level baddies dressed up to be more powerful, dominated and charmed creatures, summoned creatures etc.)
*Dividing the party
*Have a fight occur when he's in a disadvantageous position like sleeping, unarmed or drunk
*Dominate or charm him and send him against the rest of the party
*Creatures resistant or immune to weapon damage like swarms and incorporeal creatures
*Hordes and hordes of low level creatures which die in one blow anyway (keeps him occupied while the bbeeg is doing his thing)
*Social situations where violence is not a preferred outcome
*Give him a cursed weapon
*Bad guys with really high AC and special defenses against physical damage like DR, regeneration and fast healing
*Area of effect spells
*Poison and disease
*Status effects
*Awkward terrain (Try making all of those attacks while climbing or swimming)
*Difficult choices (do you save the princess soon to be eaten by the dragon on one side of the battlefield or the cleric soon to be overwhelmed by the horde of hell-hounds on the other side of the field?)
*Other types of challenges (The orc warlord challenges the barbarian to a wrestling match clearly seeing that the barbarian would beat him in a straight out sword-fight)
*The bbeeg has a contingency either magical or in the form of something else (If you harm me my legions of undead will burn down the village)
*Disarm him somehow
Greater invisibility.
Doesn't 100% concealment negate AoO's?
There's no such thing as 100% concealment. It ends at 50% concealment (which is total concealment).
All forms of concealment negate AoO's.
Please note that concealment should not be mistaken for "miss chance" which can be altogether different (in that, unless it comes from concealment, it doesn't negate AoO's).
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Greater invisibility.
Doesn't 100% concealment negate AoO's?
There's no such thing as 100% concealment. It ends at 50% concealment (which is total concealment).
All forms of concealment negate AoO's.
Please note that concealment should not be mistaken for "miss chance" which can be altogether different (in that, unless it comes from concealment, it doesn't negate AoO's).
Darn basic grasp of the English language is getting in the way of mastering PF rules again--total = 50% ;)
I knew all cover prevented AoO's, but I thought only total concealment negated AoO's.
OK, here is a good one I just thought of. Kind of nasty really and a bit mean spirited but I would chalk it up to a challenge.
You will need two enemy NPC's: A Necromantic Summoner and a Alchemist
These enemies would need to know that the group is coming for this to work.
Necromantic Summoner Summons Undead for the fight and these undead are sent in first.
Before they are sent in, they are implanted with bombs by the Alchemist who of course will need the Implant Bomb Feat.
Summoners who summon using their class feature hang around for a long time. At level 16 that is 16 minutes which is probably long enough to implant all the bombs.
These undead then rush the Barbarian and gain up on him.
Every time these guys are taken down they blow up causing damage to the barbarian and possibly the other members of his group.
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If he's using a two handed weapon (which I'm assuming he is since he's a barbarian), grapple him. It makes it even more irritating if he doesn't have a back up weapon weapon. If he isn't using a two handed weapon, disarm him, THEN grapple.
Or grapple him underwater. His con is probably stupid high, which would give him a lot of time to hold his breath if he does nothing, but since he'll be trying to get out, he'll have less time. Make him worry about the monster and drowning all at the same time.
Every time these guys are taken down they blow up causing damage to the barbarian and possibly the other members of his group.
A crypt full of advanced Burning Skeletons, which also explode on death.
A herd of Ankylosaurus, all with stun attacks.
An Oracle of Heavens with Colour Spray and the Awesome Display mystery...
Will Saves are your friend.Amen... and the scourge of the rest of the party as he becomes the agent of their destruction...
Check out the Murderous Command spell in Ultimate Magic, then heighten it and make it extended and persistent...
Hm. You might want to read The Prince of Nothing series, there's an unstoppable barbarian in that too.
Taking cues from that, you might need some journey adventures, where the obstacles are really about getting to point A from point B on a timer. The enemies can be incidental to the goal, but things like endurance tests and tracking and wilderness survival are all within the barbarian's purview.
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Ring of immolation or fire shield.
It will not stop him but it will make him think a bit before attacking the guys using them.
Does he have the roused anger rage power? If not then ray of exhaustion before he is able to activate rage. It causes fatigue even on a successful save which means no entering rage for minute/level. Just don't miss the touch attack ;)
Also you could try some real world tactics. Send in a few decoy monsters to start a battle, after the barbarian has engaged to fight them they get scared and retreat. If he chases (what raging barbarian could resist?) they can try to lead him into a trap of some kind or separate the party with walls or simply have the real enemy attack the party from the rear while he is burning a couple rounds of rage in the wrong direction.
Bloodwort.
I can beat your barbarian with a 7th level wizard, probably. Message me for how.
CP, I'm feeling a little stupid here. I don't know how to "message" someone. You're outside the spell's range. ;-)
I went to your profile hoping I could find a way to message you there but didn't see anything.
-Bloodwort
Bloodwort.
I can beat your barbarian with a 7th level wizard, probably. Message me for how.
CP, I'm feeling a little stupid here. I don't know how to "message" someone. You're outside the spell's range. ;-)
I went to your profile hoping I could find a way to message you there but didn't see anything.
-Bloodwort
I also want to know how to message people in the forum.
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just a bump since Leo and I don't know how to message people.
Bloodwort.
I can beat your barbarian with a 7th level wizard, probably. Message me for how.
CP, I'm feeling a little stupid here. I don't know how to "message" someone. You're outside the spell's range. ;-)
I went to your profile hoping I could find a way to message you there but didn't see anything.
-Bloodwort
he probably has some slick level 4 spell combo ooOooo.
Level 4 bard could do it, calm emotions + greased weapon.
Level 1 wizard with break, get him really ticked at you.
Come and Get me gives an opponent +4 to hit against the barbarian, aka +4 to cmb, time to bust out someone with a whip disarming him. No attack back because their out of reach, and youre not getting a full attack your turn without quickdraw and some back up weapons.
Currently my party is having trouble with Shadows. While they may be lacking in HP they make up in the ability to constantly hit a target with their touch attacks. Unlike other strength ability damage their kills the target if it drops down to zero or lower. Two of our party had to be resurrected because we changed into shadows which really sucked.
How about throwing a couple of Greater Shadows maybe with some class levels as they are intelligent after all.
Although I am sure that your barbarian does have a huge strength that can quickly be brought down fast from simple touch attacks that drain 1d8 strength each time.
Now it might not kill him but they would certainly soften him up before a major fight.
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Throw at him a disarming focused monk with proper feats to improve his combat maneuvers. Equip him with a Cloak of Displacement Minor (consider combining it with a Major Cloak of Displacement for an increased cost) and a Ring of Blinking.
Throw in a couple of potions to improve his combat capabilities, enlarge person and haste should be enough IMO.
Don't forget to keep his allies busy since most of them should be able to counter the monks defenses.
Make the fight long in duration (maybe you should save it for the end of your session) it should be tiring and frustrating for him but once he overcomes the challenge he should besides feeling victorious, be aware that you have control over your game.
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Play around with some of the new classes to be. Hard to AoO someone who is invis like the ninja, or perhaps the Gunslinger - Deadly aim to target the arm, on success he can disarm from far away.
As with all melee though, magic is the key to weakening the Barb.
My Pally in a game was kicking Evil Big Bad Guys all the time, then one fight I was blinded (failed my roll TWICE thanks to evil sucky dice) suddenly my team had to work hard to kill the boss while I stumbled around uselessly. Was a great battle for them, real tense - not so awesome for me but I enjoyed watching everyone work together to overcome the encounter, I get plenty of times to shine so have no issue missing out on some. (although I did have fun using Detect Evil to narrow down where the mob was, threw my shield down and tried taunting the mob to me - failed miserably of course, but meant even as a stumbling blind man I seemed pretty heroic)
Another idea is to come up with an encounter that isolates the Barbarian from the big bad and his group (maybe a wall that spins round, leaving him facing a bunch of weaker mobs while the rest of the group are left staring at the big bad)
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I think the important thing here is to provide a challenge for the Barb. without just totally negating them (which is rubbish), that way everyone gets to have fun. Thus if you are willing to step outside of core then may I suggest a melee fighter with 'robular's gambit' and 'kharmic strike'. As soon as either of them attacks the other things will get messy but your player will get to use their abilities. The resulting combat is likely to be pretty damn short but very memorable for everyone.
item of opposite Alignment. If he cant rage, he can not take advantage of the traits ;)
I know you don't want Dex dmg to be your only weapon, but it is a great one. I would recommend using a reach spell metamagic version of Calcific touch from the APG. That's my dragon killing technique, and should work sonders on his build :P The cleric or someone can always unpetrify him.
Can't top most of the suggestions here--and also agree to be careful to make sure to let him shine still. I appreciate the OP's need to challenge the character, however.
Some suggestions I didn't notice (if I missed them, I apologize):
1. IF someone gets in melee with him, have them be good at disarm and/or sunder. I am assuming this is a weapon-using barbarian, of course. This won't *negate* his melee ability, which at 16th level is still going to be nasty unarmed, but is going to put a kink in his plans. This adds some challenge to a fight while still giving him a chance to shine.
2. Give him a rival. Another barbarian, or maybe another martial class, who in his own way is as good as he is. The careful thing here is to be sure the other players and their roles aren't diminished.
3. Waves of exhaustion is a mean, mean, mean spell. But sometimes...
I seek suggestions on how to challenge this player.
Were I a Big Bad Guy who has heard of such a hero, I would train my "mook platoons" to be groups of 20 to 30 men, half equipped with Mancatchers and the other half equipped with ranged weapons with a larger critical threat range.
When this hero gets around to invading my lair, those mooks with Mancatchers would attack first. The ranged grapple would cripple this hero, for a grappled character loses his or her AoOs. The hero would be difficult to grapple, but with so many attacks there is a decent chance one will be a Natural 20 and succeed.
Then the mooks with ranged weapons would turn him into a pincushion.
If the hero wises up and starts using a reach weapon, I would have my alchemists research some sort of "Improved Tanglefoot" bag that grapples the target, and "Improved Acid" flask for splash damage.
Will Saves are your friend.
^This, right here, says it all. What does the Barbie have by way of a WILL save? Turn him on his party, listen as they cry!
Give him a Rival!!
A Two Weapon Warrior Duel Wielding Scimitars, who has:
Rolibar's Gambit
Martial Stance: Martial Spirit (Heal 2HP per strike)
Combat Focus, Stability, Vigor (+4 WILL, +8CMD, Fast Healing 4)
Dazing Assault.
We have said fighter and a Barb like yours, in the same party. They 'spar' often.
Funny to watch a Dude with DR, CAGM and Dazing Assault fight a guy who heals 12-20 HP per round, has Rolibar's Gambit and Dazing Assault.
Can't Recall if your barb has Stepup, If not give the fighter lunge.
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How about a Duelist? Arm him with a Wounding weapon and Duelist gloves.
Tacticcal attack, the first being an improved disarm, then just keep up witht he damage race, as the duelist can parry attacks and reposte parried attacks later on.
The other nonmagic method I will suggest is a vampire monk, any build suggest will give this guy trouble, but eventually he can win...or the party can help him.
Fun challenges, a strength based trap, forcing the barbarian to hold up or back something heavy to save the party from certain doom. While he's in the challenge, make it so te party has to defend him, or he must contend with also being a bottle knock for challenging but beatable minions.
If you want to be a jerk, just start throw bodacks at him.
I'm with Lincon though, play up his strengths, but do so in a way that also allows the party to shine. Then make the party important to him. He can't fly, and can't heal, and can't be everywhere at once. Read up old X-man comics for ideas.
There is no I in team, but there is a Team in Technically Awesome.
I don't think there is a private messaging system on these boards yet, unless I missed yet another of Gary's stealth feature releases.
I hear they're working on it, though.
Ranged attacks from projectile weapons or powerful magic seem like the best counter. Have a spellcaster or archer fly around that cant be fought in melee and just keeps blasting/firing at everyone
Some other things you can do include opponents with reach weapons and/or more opponents that are weaker CRs
Also keep in mind that come and get me is considered attacks of opportunity (which means a single attack not multiple ones). Without combat reflexes hes severely limited in how many he can do a round and even with it hes still pretty limited
Dont punish him to much though, he spent a rage power so let him get a good bit of use out of it as he goes toe to toe with the toughest of antagonists. If hes killing things with his shots then make them a bit tougher with the advanced template or just add some hit dice. If he wants to leave himself open make him face the consequences which is more damage when they do get through his defense
Possession. Sweet, sweet ghost possession.
Granted, it's similar to the 'mind-control magic' trick, but it's not a mind-effecting ability, so certain high-level abjurations won't help him (mind blank for example).
I think the most annoyance I ever had at my table was when I put 20 goblins up in pine trees with short bows and arrows. Nothing special either, just plain old little 1/2 CR goblins. Against level 10 characters. Each round they all fired at whatever target they could, in descending order specified by the leaders. So, leader would yell 'Dragon thingy in armor, short lizard in armor, goat guy!' for example. Then everyone who could draw line of sight to the half-dragon would shoot at him, then everyone who couldn't would fire at the kobold in platemail, and then finally the barbarian goat guy (can't remember the 3.5 race). So I'd just pick up 15 d20's, roll them, and count how many 20's I rolled and do that damage to the half-dragon. Then 4 d20's and count 20's for the kobold, and then the last guy firing at the barbarian (who had a low ac, so he hit on a 19 or 20). The half-dragon went through just about all his lay on hands for the day, and half his CLWs. They had ranged weapons, but the goblins had 50% cover from their blinds. Every time they managed to hit one, they usually killed it, but it took forever.
Note though, it helps if you have something keeping them around (like a barbarian that charges into combat with the goblin's hill-giant boss, and takes him down but lands the giant on the kobold, so they couldn't leave).
Anyway, any time you ever have someone thinking they are invincible, just toss 30 goblin mini's on the field at random at the start of the fight. Each one get's squished easy, but they also can move and shoot each round. And they all have a 1 in 20 chance of hitting, usually, so you just roll a handful of d20's each round on their initiative, all at the same guy. As long as they don't bunch up, it's like a goblin swarm, you can smash each one individually, but it takes an action to do so, plus getting to them, and they are scattering each time.
I once had 30 goblins in some trees. Fireball took care of that.
I once had 30 goblins in some trees. Fireball took care of that.
Then either your DM was an idiot, or he didn't understand how fireball works. 30 goblins spread out in trees should never fall to a fireball. A couple maybe, not all 30. You couldn't fit 30 in a fireball's area unless you tied them all up and stacked them up like cordwood.
Anyway, any time you ever have someone thinking they are invincible, just toss 30 goblin mini's on the field at random at the start of the fight.
Hitting for 1d4 against dr3/- is not likely to reduce the barbarian's feeling of invincibility. At 5% chance to hit that is an average of 1.5 hits per round with a 25% chance to beat the dr for a total average damage of .375 damage per round. I think the barbarian will collect enough missed arrows to construct a defensive fort before there is any serious threat to his health :P.
Still pretty funny though.
Anyway, any time you ever have someone thinking they are invincible, just toss 30 goblin mini's on the field at random at the start of the fight.Hitting for 1d4 against dr3/- is not likely to reduce the barbarian's feeling of invincibility. At 5% chance to hit that is an average of 1.5 hits per round with a 25% chance to beat the dr for a total average damage of .375 damage per round. I think the barbarian will collect enough missed arrows to construct a defensive fort before there is any serious threat to his health :P.
Still pretty funny though.
If he's high enough level to to have dr 3/--, then the tactic requires modification, obviously. Thirty Adept goblins firing acid splash over and over comes to mind. :)
Or, you put poison on the arrows tips. Also, although the barbarian may be ignoring the damage, doesn't mean his friends will be. You could also increase them to longbows, making it a 1d6.
Edit : Or just 1 in 3 goblins are adepts. But they are all outfitted the same, and running around. Good luck finding the ones that are doing the acid damage. :)