You begin by telling us you like twitch games, then go on with 2 posts about making macros, in post 2 regarding macros you state “The only way around that is at least slightly action based combat”
Another 4 posts singing the praises of macros HOWEVER in post 4 you state “If I notice the situation calls for something different then the end result will be me letting go of the A button and holding down B or C instead. Like I said, it would be foolish to make a script that can't be stopped.” Here you clearly state your intention to use macros in PFO
Moving on to your next post you inform us that “They'll know it's cheating, but do it anyways.” Then drop in the “putting at least a little action into combat is just as important.” Comment again as a method to counter act macros
Next is a post suggesting short battles to counter macro use
Then a post asking me “Tell me when you keep losing fights, knowing the other guy is playing in a way that seems more "boring" to you but is giving him an edge that you won't get bored of the nonsense.”
How would I know? If someone beats me they beat me why would I instantly assume they had to use a macro to win?
Moving on to your next post, you begin by dropping another thinly veiled pro twitch comment “I agree that combat should have nothing to do with macros and more to do with character skill, although I'd like to see a large share of that be player skill as well.
Then follow that you state “Nothing more boring than a combat oriented game that does all the combat for you (ie. 99.999% based on character skill).”
Can we all say twitch fest?
You finish this post with another doom and gloom “everyone else will do it” comment on macros
You end this with two final posts attacking me and telling me how I have no clue.
Here’s a clue, go back, read YOUR posts and tell me how your not actually a PRO TWITCH, MACROING, TROLL?
I'll stick with my statements, care to change any of yours?
you don't get it at all dude. There is no endgame, being king of PvP will be totally meaningless, no reason for anything beyond whatever level of player interaction each player decides for themself.
If I'm part of a guild that meets my social desires I still win.
If I choose to spend 12 hours a day crafting and never use a macro I win,
if I choose to spend my days playing scarecrow in a local farm field I win.
if I log in and do anything, macro or not, that gives me enough pleasure to keep playing how have I lost? you seem determined to convince me that unless I see the light and come over to your vision of PFO that I've somehow lost and should move on.
my hope is that PFO doesn't become a macro twitchfest it's nothing personal, I don't see why your determined to make it so
Onishi is right on the money! a monopoly is exactly what it will be
I'm concerned that unless we settle a hex ourselves, most of us will always be dependent on someone else to train. While some dependence on others is fine, being able to play shouldn't be dependent on the whim of someone else, and by denying a player access to training you can effectively stop a player from playing the game at peek ability until they cave to your demands or they can find a settlement that will allow them to train at a price they can afford.
Will settlement A, created on day one of early enrollment basically always be ahead of settlement X created a year down the road? One would think so unless the folks at settlement A are real slackers, this would give members of settlement A a huge advantage in construction of training facilities able to offer the highest levels of training.
If the members of settlement A decide to close or severely limit membership they now hold an advantage over a large portion of the player base that will be VERY hard to overcome.
Or I can see settlement A, large and powerful, but involved in a long drawn out war with several smaller neighbors offering the latest greatest training ONLY to those who agree to serve in their army.
Or how about this, I come along, I'm not a member of settlement A and I want to train, settlement A will not allow non-members to use up the "limited" training slots available at their training hall, however settlement A is the only one to offer that skill what do I do?
Or take that same scenario, however this time lets say I'm one of the founders of settlement X and need to train a skill. I travel to settlement A, who invite me to train ONLY IF I'll leave settlement X and pay 3x the going rate, or marry their ugly sister, etc...
It basically comes down to a case of the “haves vs. the have nots” where the “haves” are always in a position to demand whatever they choose.
It sounds good but wont this method of training penalize new/small settlements? How will you build in a trade off to make a new settlement worth the "player set" price of training?
I can easily see a settlement refusing training to someone who left to start their own settlement, then what?
I'm also wondering how this will play out with people who prefer to play solo? gonna be tough to train without kissing the behind of someone. and I can totally see the "join our settlement and pay 3x our normal tax rate for a year or no training" crap when they have you over a barrel.
Starting to feel like I'm beating my head against a wall here
Blaeringr wrote:
@okimbored tell me you won't get bored if you can't keep up the precision button mashing that people using macros can. Tell me when you keep losing fights, knowing the other guy is playing in a way that seems more "boring" to you but is giving him an edge that you won't get bored of the nonsense.
I won't get bored because IF captain macro gets his jollies by repeatedly killing me he'll have a heinous flag in a day and be hunted like an animal, or he'll be banned for griefing.
Look I don't have an issue with simple macros that remove hours of tedium while crafting or whatever, but at some point in a combat situation it should have VERY LITTLE to do with my macro building or button mashing and 99.9% to do with the skill levels and abilities of my toon.
If a level 1 toon walks up to a lvl 5 toon and takes a poke at him the lvl 1 SHOULD DIE 99.999% of the time PERIOD, if not the game is essentially broken because char skill means nothing and it's really just macros online with a bonus to whomever has the fastest internet
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough, I totally get what he said
Blaeringr wrote:
I've written macros that repeatedly run quests over and over in DDO. Your xp per run drops each time you repeat a quest, but that penalty bottoms out after 20 runs, and a 90% penalty still amounts to a little slice of xp, which is plenty if it's not taking any of your own personal time.
I've levelled up a TR character in DDO through level 4 without completing a single quest myself - all macro'd. And I'm not a professional programmer either. Given that, responding to specific buffs/debuffs, or a simple stop key or scenario is a piece of cake. Anybody here on these forums can have it figured out in not time by just reading up on .ahk
again I say whay play? if I'm so bored with a game that I would rather make a macro to play for me then actually play, my time could be much better spent elsewhere
so if making macros is the answer to everything, why not play macros online instead?
Nothing personal Blaeringr, you sound like a pretty sharp guy actually, but the gaming experience you describe doesn't sound like much fun to me, and that's still the point of playing.
There really is no winning in an online game. With the exception of a small number of players who go on to actual game design/production nothing anyone does in an MMO is going to get them a prettier spouse,a happy marrage, a better job, a bigger house, or a better car.
I'd say that if your to the point in any MMO that it's just as fun to make a macro that will play the entire game for you while you take a nap, then to actually play the game, it's probably time to move on.
if the systen takes one command every "x" seconds and stores commands in a cue, so a macro could work, would also be a death trap without a method to instantly clear that cue. No clear = no macros
I like twitch based games. For one thing, it cuts down on macroing, and boring repetition. Also, I'm too young to play bridge at the old folks' home ;)
I'd bet i was playing Avatar and Moria on CERL/PLATO before many of the people here were a glimmer in dad's eye :)
twitch fest is the first thing i thought of while reading this. I like games as much as the next guy but I'm to damn old to play twitch games with 10 yr olds
wow 6 pages and no mention of the only thing that really caught my attention.
"For each day a player does not lose any law vs. chaos points, they earn law vs. chaos points at a rate that accelerates each day, so the longer they remain lawful the faster they get points. Characters with high law vs. chaos can also give law vs. chaos points from their own pool to more chaotic players to reward lawful behavior the system can't quantify, though the amount is limited."
so I will gain lawful points for doing nothing, and if I have some extra Lawful points laying around I can just gift them to whoever I please?
will chaotic people be able to do the same? if bonehead the barb hasn't done anything chaotic today he might need those points :P
A person doesn't become more lawful from a lack of chaotic activity any more then a lawful person becomes more chaotic, they simply stay the same. if we palce a person in jail and do nothing else with him, he shouldn't come out lawful just because of a lack of opportunity. He should come out the same person as he went in. The policeman doesn't become more Chaotic if he doesn't make an arrest for a week
Also if we go back to the thread on settlement alignment, how could you maintain any chaotic settlement? everyone person there is automatically on the path to Lawful
Also with all these flags will there be a semaphore skill?
The true problem with any alignment system is that PFO will follow whatever its programmers decide. What that system will fail to realize is that people have differing ideas as to what is good or evil, or more accurately how we all divide the gray area between them.
Perhaps once upon a time the world was black and white, but it's been varying shades of gray for a very long time now and a computer just can't judge situational ethics like a live DM would.
In a black and white world when your faced with a lesser of two evils choice your screwed either way.
PFO seems to be trying to remove the "ends justify the means" mentality that most of the world runs on these days.
Personally I'm done thinking about alignments, the Devs have a year+ to figure it all out, and either I'll play or I won't
tons of people should have someone with them. Putting on a suit of armor is a multi person activity, you also wouldn't sleep in armor, and would have someone along the lines of a squire to clean, maintain, and dress you.
To a point you could think of anyone in a suit of metal armor as a modern day tank, how many people does it take to operate and maintain one of those?
I see your point Onishi, but I'm not so sure it couldn't work on some combination of Refresh, Utility, and Consumable slots, beyond looking cool a human pet that recreates the effects (and burns charges) of potions or wands you carry would make a pretty cool pet that really does nothing.
I guess I don't really see what you want the "pet" to do for you, but as for the concerns over PvP lag and play complication, how would either of those be any worse with a humanoid shaped pet over an animal one?
Spellhammer you need to start at the top of this post and READ IT, up to and including the post by Stephen Cheney.
You’re welcome to have whatever alignments in your settlement you care to have and if as you suggest "have all alignments in a city. Those who don't match the city laws might have to step lightly. However, there is no reason they could not live in the most Lawful Good town in game."
Your correct, HOWEVER as it's currently being described, allowing those evil toons into your LG settlement WILL eventually, quicker if their numbers are left unchecked, shift its (the settlements) alignment and will eventually force your LG toon to leave your own settlement
In reference to settlements Stephen Cheney wrote, "We'll have some manner of warning mechanism to make it apparent when you're getting close to crossing over into one of the other spaces on the alignment chart. Once you cross over, buildings that required the previous alignment will stop working (though new buildings may become available) and members now more than one step away will no longer be members (though we will probably include some kind of transition state so they or the settlement can try to adjust alignment to avoid getting kicked out instantly)."
To me the question comes down to the act of detection, and how PFO views it. As a long time PnP DM, I always considered the act of detecting evil (or good) by a pally or cleric as an attack, if my evil toon walks into a town and "Joe pally" uses a detect evil on me, HE gets the attacker flag as the aggressor and should be flagged as such regardless of alignments or motive.
I guess it's a good thing those $5000 taverns are "between settlements" but I still have to wonder what happens to all the time, R/L money? whatever it takes to own a shop inside a settlement when I get the boot due to a settlement alignment shift?
Alignment shifting of player settlements sounds like a much bigger and "better" method of large scale griefing then anything one idiot could do in PvP lol
I love how a game 15 years ago did something that people today are saying is to complicated to do, I guess UO was WAY ahead of it's time lol.
I can totally understand if it's understandably low position on the priority list means it won't happen, but I'd sure like to think not everyone here will still be playing on the same 386 computer with dial-up they had in 1997.
not only would I like to see discarded loot on the ground for X amount of time I also like to see permanent player made books in the game as well (remember those?)
Personally, if player thieves can break into my house while I’m offline and steal. Pathfinder will never see a dime from me . About the only way I would even consider playing under those rules would be a Permadeath sentence for failed thieves
In an MMO, every player wants to be the hero and wants to be the center of the story, the problem is no one really is because it's all a level playing field. You don't run into the simple farmer, the shepherd, the blacksmith or the innkeeper. The only people you run into are wizards, rangers, thieves, knights, clerics and all the variations in between,
The most fun I EVER had playing LOTRO was farming, and look at all the people playing Farmville and Hempville on Facebook, don't tell me you can't get people to play farmers and other "simple folk" you just need an enjoyable system for doing it, at a price people are willing to pay
Full Name
Anadorita Garimos
Race
HP 12/12 | AC: 15/T 12/ FF 13 | Fort: +5 [+7 vs polymorph]; Ref: +4; Will: +1 [+3 vs mind affecting] | Init: +2 | Per +5 ; SM: +7 | Spd 30 ft. |
Family Trade
Benefit(s): Choose one skill. All family members with this trait must choose the same skill and it is always a class skill for you. When you are within 60 feet of a family member with this trait, you gain a +2 trait bonus on checks with this skill.
Cynical Ear
Neither honeyed tongues or righteous wrath move you much.
Benefit(s): Add 2 when determining your Hit Dice for Intimidate checks, and increase the DC for all Diplomacy checks against you by 2.
SKILLS:
The kineticist’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
The chaokineticist adds Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Escape Artist to her list of class skills.
Ability Score Modifiers: Ganzis are passionate, creative, and resilient, but they have difficulty focusing on intellectual pursuits. They gain +2 Constitution and Charisma, but suffer –2 to Intelligence.
Size: Ganzis are Medium creatures and have no bonuses of penalties due to their size.
Speed: Ganzis have a base speed of 30 feet.
Senses: Ganzis have darkvision 60 feet.
Maelstrom Resistance: Ganzis have acid resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, and sonic resistance 5, and they gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells of the polymorph subschool.
Skilled: Ganzis gain a +2 racial bonus on Sense Motive and Survival checks.
Languages: Ganzis begin play speaking Common and one of the following: Abyssal, Celestial, or Protean. Ganzis with high Intelligence scores can select any of those languages as bonus languages, along with Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Ignan, Sylvan, or Terran.
Ganzi Oddity:
Racing Mind (Ex) A ganzi whose lineage is linked to hunduns might inherit an aspect of the outsiders’ chaotic minds. The ganzi’s churning vortex of thoughts bolsters it against mental attacks, granting the ganzi a +2 bonus on Will saves against mind-affecting effects.
CLASS ABILITIES
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Kineticists are proficient with all simple weapons and light armor, but not shields.
Elemental Focus (Su):
At 1st level, a kineticist chooses one primary element on which to focus. This element determines how she accesses the raw power of the Ethereal Plane, and grants her access to specific wild talents (see below) and additional class skills. She gains her selected element’s basic utility wild talent (basic telekinesis, basic aerokinesis, etc.) as a bonus wild talent.
Wild Talents:
A kineticist can use wild talents—magical abilities similar to spells but drawn from the kineticist’s innate psychic talent and usable at will. Wild talents are typically spell-like abilities (though some are supernatural abilities), and take a standard action to use unless otherwise noted. A wild talent always has the elemental descriptor or descriptors (aether, air, earth, fire, or water) matching its element entry. A wild talent that can be used with any of several elements gains the appropriate elemental descriptor when used with an element. For example, the wall wild talent gains the earth descriptor when used by a geokineticist.
Every wild talent has an effective spell level. A kineticist can always select 1st-level wild talents, but she can select a wild talent of a higher level only if her kineticist level is at least double the wild talent’s effective spell level. Kinetic blast and defense wild talents are always considered to have an effective spell level equal to 1/2 the kineticist’s class level (to a maximum effective spell level of 9th at kineticist level 18th).
Unless otherwise noted, the DC for a saving throw against a wild talent is equal to 10 + the wild talent’s effective spell level + the kineticist’s Constitution modifier. The kineticist uses her Constitution modifier on all concentration checks for wild talents.
In addition to the wild talents she gains from her other class features, at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter, a kineticist selects a new utility wild talent from the list of options available to her. A kineticist can select only universal wild talents or those that match her element (see Elemental Focus above). At 6th, 10th, and 16th levels, a kineticist can replace one of her utility wild talents with another wild talent of the same level or lower. She can’t replace a wild talent that she used to qualify for another of her wild talents.
Burn (Ex):
At 1st level, a kineticist can overexert herself to channel more power than normal, pushing past the limit of what is safe for her body by accepting burn.
Some of her wild talents allow her to accept burn in exchange for a greater effect, while others require her to accept a certain amount of burn to use that talent at all. For each point of burn she accepts, a kineticist takes 1 point of nonlethal damage per character level.
This damage can’t be healed by any means other than getting a full night’s rest, which removes all burn and associated nonlethal damage. Nonlethal damage from burn can’t be reduced or redirected, and a kineticist incapable of taking nonlethal damage can’t accept burn.
A kineticist can accept only 1 point of burn per round. This limit rises to 2 points of burn at 6th level, and rises by 1 additional point every 3 levels thereafter.
A kineticist can’t choose to accept burn if it would put her total number of points of burn higher than 3 + her Constitution modifier (though she can be forced to accept more burn from a source outside her control). A kineticist who has accepted burn never benefits from abilities that allow her to ignore or alter the effects she receives from nonlethal damage.
Kinetic Blast (Sp):
At 1st level, a kineticist gains a kinetic blast wild talent of her choice. This kinetic blast must be a simple blast that matches her element. Simple blasts are listed with their corresponding elements.
As a standard action, the kineticist can unleash a kinetic blast at a single target up to a range of 30 feet. She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn’t have hands).
All damage from a kinetic blast is treated as magic for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction.
Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus. The kineticist is never considered to be wielding or gripping the kinetic blast (regardless of effects from form infusions; see Infusion), and she can’t use Vital Strike feats with kinetic blasts.
Even the weakest kinetic blast involves a sizable mass of elemental matter or energy, so kinetic blasts always deal full damage to swarms of any size (though only area blasts deal extra damage to swarms).
A readied kinetic blast can be used to counterspell any spell of equal or lower level that shares its descriptor. A kinetic blast that deals energy damage of any type (including force) has the corresponding descriptor.
Each simple blast is either a physical blast or an energy blast.
Physical blasts are ranged attacks that deal an amount of damage equal to 1d6+1 + the kineticist’s Constitution modifier, increasing by 1d6+1 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st. Spell resistance doesn’t apply against physical blasts.
Energy blasts are ranged touch attacks that deal an amount of damage equal to 1d6 + 1/2 the kineticist’s Constitution modifier, increasing by 1d6 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st.
Composite blasts combine elements to form a new blast. When a kineticist gains a new element through expanded element, she gains access to all composite blasts for which she qualifies. All composite blasts are listed after the kineticist elements.
Most composite blasts are either physical or energy blasts, like simple blasts.
Physical composite blasts deal an amount of damage equal to 2d6+2 + the kineticist’s Constitution modifier, increasing by 2d6+2 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st.
Energy composite blasts deal an amount of damage equal to 2d6 + 1/2 the kineticist’s Constitution modifier, increasing by 2d6 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st.
Gravity Blast:
Element void; Type simple blast (Sp); Level —; Burn 0
Blast Type physical; Damage bludgeoning
Blast Type physical; Damage bludgeoning
You manipulate gravity to distort and buffet your foe’s body.
Basic Chaokinesis:
Element void; Type utility (Sp); Level 1; Burn 0
You can create a shadow that protects a target from bright light. You can also change gravity to increase a creature’s carrying capacity by half or grant a creature a +4 bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump.
Each benefit lasts 1 hour or until you use basic chaokinesis again.
Gather Power:
If she has both hands free (or all of her prehensile appendages free, for unusual kineticists), a kineticist can gather energy or elemental matter as a move action.
Gathering power creates an extremely loud, visible display in a 20-foot radius centered on the kineticist, as the energy or matter swirls around her. Gathering power in this way allows the kineticist to reduce the total burn cost of a blast wild talent she uses in the same round by 1 point.
The kineticist can instead gather power for 1 full round in order to reduce the total burn cost of a blast wild talent used on her next turn by 2 points (to a minimum of 0 points). If she does so, she can also gather power as a move action during her next turn to reduce the burn cost by a total of 3 points.
If the kineticist takes damage during or after gathering power and before using the kinetic blast that releases it, she must succeed at a concentration check (DC = 10 + damage taken + effective spell level of her kinetic blast) or lose the energy in a wild surge that forces her to accept a number of points of burn equal to the number of points by which her gathered power would have reduced the burn cost.
This ability can never reduce the burn cost of a wild talent below 0 points.
Infusion (Su):
At 1st level, a kineticist gains an infusion wild talent from the list of options available based on her elemental focus. She gains additional infusions at 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 19th levels.
By using infusions along with her kinetic blasts, a kineticist can alter her kinetic blasts to suit her needs. Infusions come in two types, each of which changes a kinetic blast differently: a substance infusion causes an additional effect, while a form infusion causes the kinetic blast to manifest in a different way. Each infusion can alter only certain kinds of kinetic blasts, which are listed in its Associated Blasts entry. Each time the kineticist uses one of her kinetic blast wild talents, she can apply up to one associated form infusion and up to one associated substance infusion.
Some infusions change the action required to activate a kinetic blast or entirely transform the kinetic blast’s normal effects.
The burn cost listed in each infusion’s Burn entry is added to the burn cost of the kinetic blast the infusion modifies.
The DC for a save against an infusion is based on the associated kinetic blast’s effective spell level, not the level of the infusion. The DCs for form infusions are calculated using the kineticist’s Dexterity modifier instead of her Constitution modifier. When a kineticist modifies a kinetic blast with a form infusion and a substance infusion that both require saving throws, each target first attempts a saving throw against the form infusion. If a target succeeds and a successful save negates the infusion’s effects, the entire kinetic blast is negated; otherwise, the target then attempts a saving throw against the substance infusion. If a kineticist’s form and substance infusions both alter the kinetic blast’s damage, apply the substance infusion’s alteration first.
At 5th, 11th, and 17th levels, a kineticist can replace one of her infusions with another infusion of the same effective spell level or lower. She can’t replace an infusion that she used to qualify for another of her wild talents.
Infusion Wild Talent: Dampening Infusion:
Element void; Type substance infusion; Level 1; Burn 1
Associated Blasts negative, void
Saving Throw Will negates
Your kinetic blast swirls with darkness, making it harder for your foes to see. This otherwise functions as dazzling infusion: Your kinetic blast shines brightly, making it harder for your foes to see. If your blast hits a foe (and penetrates SR if applicable), that foe must succeed at a Will save or be dazzled for 1 minute, whether or not it takes damage from the blast. You can reduce the blast’s damage by half to increase the DC of this save by 2.
