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Xithor wrote:

Split Second. An overweight Rutger Hauer and scantily clad Kim Cattral vs a human eating monster in a near future (set in 2008, made in 1992, things aren't quite as bad as the writers thought they would be) half flooded London.

"We need to get bigger guns. BIG F***ING GUNS!"

Like many of these films, best watched NOT sober.

You know I completely forgot about that movie.


Selk wrote:

Just a small suggestion for a very common item in most groups: Wand of Cure Light Wounds. An item so ubiquitous could do with a new treatment, perhaps a new 'container' all its own, something new Pathfinder could claim as an iconic item.

Beta just seems like a good opportunity to recognize the popularity of certain magic items and make them emblematic of the game.

To be honest, there is nothing to prevent Paizo or the GM to classify wands as some sort of hand held device. Be it some sort of hold relic, (can you say fingers of a dead saint?), some sort of mystic gem, or even say a glove.


Azoun The Sage wrote:

As the subject says, it's like my main question these days...I mean the monster book is coming, the PrC's are out with more likely to come...how about the DM Screen????

As of right now I got an old 2nd Edition screen i'm using with copies of certain charts stapled on the inside. I know, I know how ghetto is that?

And on the topic has anyone made any of their own DM Screens?

What do you think should be on the DM screen?

Yes, I have made my own screens, but not really sure what should be on the official screens. I find my screen making abilities are rather poor. I printed/photocopied some of the charts. I then cut them out and pasted them onto blank sheets of paper.

For those that use computers, something like http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html would be cool.

To be honest, I mostly use the DM screen just stop players from looking at my maps and not really much for reference.


Nero24200 wrote:
How does multiclassing work in regards to skills in PFRPG? Does a single level in rogue merit a +3 bonus to several class skills permanatly or is there somthing I've overlooked?

Yes, you always get a +3 bonus to a class skill. Once a skill becomes a class skill, its always a class skill. Since all skills cost 1 pt per 1 rank if it is a class skill or not, this is the only bonus you get for it being a class skill. It actually makes multi-class characters easier to audit from a skill perspective, you simply add up the skill points they should get from each class and that the number of ranks they should have totaled from all the skill they have.


I'm still not sure we need the extra HPs, although most people seem to think otherwise.

I've looked at options a few times. While I understand the nature of racial HP, and it does seem to add flavor, I'm not sure if it the right flavor. So, I'm a bit more in tune with a flat number.


Tharen the Damned wrote:


And that dear gamers is the sad truth!
I 3rd edition times most D&D players used the 3rd edition Core Rules*.
But now the Fanbase has the 3rd and 3.5 Core Rules, the PFRPG and 4th edition.
That split can not be good for the hobby as we will play different games.
Ok, PFRPG and 3.5 will be compatible, but there will still be significant differences.

*of course there were, are and will be a group of players sticking with OD&D and AD&D 1st and 2nd.

While I share a bit of your lament, I do beg to differ on the split. Having been around RPGing for over 25 years. I've played quite a few different games. One of the things that I have found true is that no single game can be all things to all the people. We have always played different games. Every group I've every played with had some sort of house rules for whatever version of D&D they were playing. The major different now is that some of these house-rules have been printed and sold. In my opinion, the split is good because, we as gamers are given a choice. You like 4ed, I personally do not, so I choose to play something else. Does this polarize things? Maybe it does, but we've always had that. We've always thought our camp was playing the best game and the other camps were somehow mistaken that they had the best game. So really nothing new here. Will this current split hurt, WoTC? I'm sure it will a little, but that's not my problem, that's theirs. They went one way and I'm going a different way. That's the way markets are suppose to work. Again, you can't make everyone happy. So as a way to close, go play what makes you happy and stop crying about things that can not and should not be changed.


DeathQuaker wrote:


Edit: Ninja'd! Of course, having the other publishers post conversions works to... but then they need Paizo's permission, I think? Unless OGL elimiantes that need.

Basically the OGL does eliminate some that need. However at this moment in time the Beta is considered closed source. They has stated that they will release the final, there will be something like the SRD that is OGL and there will be a simple Pathfinder Compatible Logo License as well. The General thrust of what I've read has been, Paizo wants to have something to use so they can publish AP and to allow other 3.5 OGL people to have something to use as well.


rclifton wrote:


Fiscal years don't end in December. Weird accounting practices make fiscal years end sometime around September if I remember right.

It actually depends on what you decided when you setup the corporation. Its all based on when they wanted to file Federal Income Tax.


jubilee wrote:

Rogue:

Pg. 39 - Under Rogue Talents, it states that a rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once - does (should) this include the combat trick (feat) and weapon training (wpn focus) talents?

The way I read it yes. That said, I'm in the boat that maybe you should be able to take some of them twice or more. I'll have to ponder more on this.

jubilee wrote:

Wizard:

Pg. 49 - Under Arcane Bond, it states that if you choose an item to bond with, you may enchant it as if you had the required feat - does the wizard have to otherwise qualify to enchant the item? For example, Forge Ring and Craft Staff require caster level 12. Can a wizard with those items not enchant it until 12th caster level?

That is an interesting question. I had to re-read the section twice. I'm not sure what to think. I'm likely to say yes. Either way, it needs to be spelled out.


Lost Messiah wrote:

Just wondering if there's been any thought given to character traits/faults system for PFRPG?

One of the D&D systems I most enjoyed was the Skills and Powers version of 2nd Ed. (Yeah I know, that was way back...) I still wish we had something similar to that in the present. I know that regional traits have been added to some of the pathfinder products, but I liked the aspect of each character having its upside and downside.

I'm sure that any such thoughts would have to come after the current play test cycle, and after PFRPG final has been published. Based on the AP modules, I think what you are likely to so see are Traits system that they are using. Each trait being roughly worth 1/2 a feat. Each character able to select two traits for free. Not likely what you are looking for. Still, that does leave room for a strictly optional book either by Paizo or some third party.


Archade wrote:

How about halfling weapon familiarity - slings and any weapon with the word 'halfling' in it? Every class is familiar with the sling to begin with.

Poor halflings...

While, I agree that is a bit sad. There is always an off chance that some future class will not have sling. In that case a halfling of the class would still know sling.


Saurstalk wrote:

Some of my own niggles (and comments concerning those raised prior).

1. Concentration? Why does this remain missing? I remain perplexed as Concentration was not exclusively spell-related. If anything, Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) should have been merged.

At some recording of a conference at Origins I heard, Jason talked about his issue. He considered doing exactly that, but decided there was less use for concentration. In most of the gaming that I have done, I don't think GM or players have used concentration for anything but spell related issue, so I see his point. He also talked about maybe inventing a new way to handle the non-spell related concentration checks. While I see both sides of this issue, since my experience with concentration has personally be more in line with Jason's observations, I have no personal issue with it getting merged.

Saurstalk wrote:


3. Separate and apart from the skills above, I remain perplexed why certain skills were condensed and others left alone. I understand that we have essentially two camps here: (1) DON'T CONDENSE and (2) CONDENSE MORE! But in either case, I concur with the prior post in that it would be nice to actually hear WHY Paizo did what it did (and did nothing more), e.g., why didn't Disguise and Bluff get condensed into Deception?

I do agree it would be interesting to hear why certain things were done. That said, I'm sure explaining everything would be as big a project as making the changes.

Saurstalk wrote:


The problem my PBP group now has is whether to (A) Playtest Beta as it is or (B) incorporate the House Rules that we've been using and simply MAKE Beta our game system with House Rules. We're split, with my preference being B ... seeing that Paizo hasn't addressed a variety of things needing addressed.

I think you hit an issue I think everyone forgets about. To put it simply, "It your game do what you want". There will be those say, you need to play as written or it will move you further from the core game. I don't think this is so. It has been a tradition in RPGs as far back as I remember. Hell, if you look at games in general this true. Take Good old Monopoly, I think everyone has a some sort of 'House' rule that they use with it. When you play it with a different group you have to use their change. I don't think any expects to play Monopoly as written. RPGs are no different, we all use things from a variety of resources. We usually have to make some changes to suit "our" needs. In this case this would be that things that you though needed to be addressed and were not. I'm not saying things didn't need to be addressed. I'm just saying that not all things can be addressed to everyone satisfaction. (Sadly another thing that most people forget about)


Montalve wrote:
Pathfinder RPG page 194 wrote:
In addition to these abilities, each school also grants a number of bonus spells. Whenever a wizard attains the listed level, he can choose one spell from his school to prepare every day as a bonus spell. Instead of gaining a spell of the listed level, the wizard can instead choose a spell of a lower level, which he can then prepare twice per day (except for 2nd level). A universalist can choose spells from any school. Once chosen, these spells cannot be changed
yeah, he won't be happy

The way I read that section, I think the Once Chosen rule applies any of the bonus spells no matter what the school not just the universal.


Lord Fyre wrote:

With my new PathfinderRPG beta, I have noticed a small problem with the existing Adventure paths. Even on the "Fast" experience progression, characters using the PathfinderRPG will fall behind the expected levels.

How did you do this calculation?


Goth Guru wrote:

It's like I said.

They come out with a trial balloon that people stomp on.
Then they come out with a version that addresses thoes complaints.
It is so rare that I can say I told you so.
I really did.

I just wonder why they put up with people in their organization that keep antagonizing their customers. Must be someone who inherited the name Dungeons and Dragons.

I'd just like to point out that we haven't seen the new GSL just the promise there will be one. We may be making a false assumption that it will address complaints.


A long time ago, I played in Traveller game via GRIP. It worked pretty well. Bad news is GRIP is for Windows only. I've played around with Open RPG somewhat. Good news, is it can be cross-platform. Bad news is that the last time I looked it, the install took a bit of work. My experience with Virtual Table Top group has been that it sometimes harder to get the virtual group together than a normal group. Also expect less time playing. Most of the sessions I've been involved in ran about 2-3 hours max. I'm not bad mouthing the use of virtual table tops, I think they are a great way to get some gaming in if you are aware of the limitations (real or assumed) when you them. Good Luck and remember have fun!


Vic Wertz wrote:
Galen Ciscell wrote:

How many wagons are in the complete caravan? 18? 9? 6?

Thanks!
Galen

There are 15 wagons, and a couple of cards that just have horses.

Damn, I could have used this about a month ago with an adventure I was running.


Coridan wrote:

I'm making a sniper-type character for Second Darkness (mixing a bit of Scout, Fighter, Ranger, Deepwood Sniper and Order of the Bow Initiate) and while my instinct says use a Longbow the char pic I have has a shortbow.

I'm just curious what's the big difference? I know shortbows can be used while mounted, but are there any other advantages besides that?

I'd like to take a moment here and make a comment on culture. While there may be a variety of metagaming reasons to take one over the other, for Role-playing reasons, it might be more interesting to take the character's actual culture into account. Does the culture favor one over the other? For that matter, do both exist in the culture? Is one considered the weapon of the "enemy" who ever that might be? Is one weapon taught only to certain sexes or people of certain social standings. Does the religion outlaw certain weapons? (As the Church tried to do with firearms?)

Ok, I know not what you asked, but I'd thought I'd get a side comment in.


The Motovoxbox wrote:

Blog post here

The preview mentions the beta character sheet. Starting my game this weekend, and thought I would see if it has been posted anywhere, or is imminent? Would love to get started with the Beta sheet rather then Alpha, and then reprint next Friday. Saves paper you know! :)

AFAIK, I don't think they plan to do so until the Beta is released.


Mistwalker wrote:

I have Campaign Cartographer, and once I get around to learning how to use it properly, I will see what I can do about putting Golarion into a single map.

There is a feature that allows you to link maps together, so as your cursor goes over Sandpoint, you can get the Sandpoint map, and from there the different maps for the Catacombs, etc...

I was kinda hoping that Paizo was using this, and that a "map" CD would be a futur product.

Actually, only a few "Professionals" seem to use CC. Being basically a CAD program its simply not in the vocabulary of the Cartographer. Some professional Cartographers complain that CC make things too "boxy". As a GIS person, I find that it really doesn't do Geography all that well anyway. I'd rather try to lay things out in ArcGIS rather than use CC, but that's not an option for almost any normal person.

That all said, yes things like what your talking about is pretty cool. Still even with the proliferation of computers most sit down gaming is done with out the help of one. I know I've wanted to use one but my laptops have always been way too big.


SirUrza wrote:


Nope, they don't even want third parties trying to create product based on beta.

Further it seems self defeating for Paizo to provide conversions of 3.5 stuff for beta. If beta is failing to be compatible with Paizo's own stuff then it should be brought to their attention. If you can't convert Paizo's stuff, then you won't be able to convert anyone's stuff. Compatibility with 3.5 is part of the beta process, so do it yourself. :P

I don't know about Paizo's stuff, but I've no problem doing conversions on existing WoTC 3.5 material. So, I don't think anyone should have a problem doing a conversion in the interim.


Molech wrote:

In my homebrew game-design there are no "Cleric: one size fits all" like the offal system that's always been.

Each deity has a Character Class with its own class features -- including different spell lists. And, no, "clerics" of Fharlanghn can't Turn or Rebuke undead.

-W. E. Ray

WOW, you have more time and energy than I do.

In general, I find this whole thread rather entertaining. Here a few thoughts on the matter.

1) In General, I find Paladins a rather silly class.
2) I do agree that if you have to have some sort of religious Champion for LG deities, then there should be some for the other non-LG deities. How you could do this without creating a class for each is an interesting Question.
3) In some ways, the "original" clerics were based on concept of religious Knights from the Crusades. In AD&D, that's where their non-edged weapon restrictions came from. [Some Crusading Knights fought this way as to not defile the "Holy" land with infidel blood ] In some ways the clerics are the "Fighting" Warriors of their religion and there should likely be a non-fighting version as an NPC class.
4) Paladins somewhat assume "Knightly" virtues, which is why they are LG. As others have pointed out, I'm not sure what the virtues of the other alignments would be.
5) Because of the "Knightly" virtues, there needs to society that aspires to those virtues even if most people can not obtain it. It has been my experience, few settings really allow for that and therefore the Paladin class is not just a fish out of water but a fish from another planet out of water.


Yep, looks like it finally worked.


hopeless wrote:

Anybody heard anything about this?

It sounds like a take on classic traveller and they seem to be converting some of their settings over to it due to the 4th edition gsl.

Was wondering what others thought about it?

It is hard to say. I took a look at it at my FLGS, but it seemed rather light for the price they were asking IMHO. Of course, I've been waiting for the T5 set of documents from Marc Miller. Those are sadly way behind schedule (to the point that they no longer trying to predict when it will be out).

Outside of price, it look like a solid piece of work and at some point, I'm likely going to pick it up. I just have way to many other purchases in mind first. (including the Comstar version of Traveller for the Hero System)


Varthanna wrote:

When I click on "Add to Cart" on this page: http://paizo.com/pathfinder/v5748btpy7xpn

I get this message: "Important: Pathfinder: Second Darkness Player's Guide (OGL)~ was removed because it is not available." and nothing is in my shopping cart still.

I saw this myself on Saturday. I guess someone goofed somewhere. Since it was the weekend, I didn't expect this to get fixed until sometime Monday.


Andre Caceres wrote:

For now you'll need the 3.5 or SRD, not really sure about the Bata version coming out soon. Next year the final version comes out and it will be a game into itself. The moniker of 3.75 is a fan based thing ignore it and call it Pathfinder. Its keeping OGL and 3rd ed. alive but Pathfinder really shouldn't remain in the shadow of D'n'D.

TTFN Dre

I agree that it shouldn't be called 3.75 or anything like that, but It does provide a quick and dirty (although not accurate) explanation of what Pathfinder is. I try not use it myself, but it does help explain it to some of my players, who have been RPGing for only a year or so.


Kochean wrote:
I saw in the Grappling hook entry that use rope is referenced. Is Use Rope coming back in Beta or is it a error?

After I read this post, I re-looked at the Preview pages. I'm hoping this was an error, I never really like the use rope thing.

If it is an error, It will be interesting to see how many errors made it in. On the plus side, since this is still in Beta, the more errors we find now, the less likely there will be errors in the final product.


Padaahlump wrote:

so I just saw the PRPG beta preview files, and noticed that the prices of the 10ft. pole and 10ft. ladder remain unchanged. The pole still costs 2sp while the ladder costs 5cp. I know it isn't too big an issue, but while you're including the chapter in the

book anyway, couldn't you just switch the prices around?

Of the cuff, I wanted to say that they only wanted to add new equipment not change the prices that were in the SRD.

However, I keep flip flopping around on the issue. In general prices in games are not "accurate" by any measure. They sometimes don't make logical sense for the game world they are in. Many times prices are function of how useful they are to adventures rather than what it would really cost. Since there is really no good benchmarks and one may not have historical items' cost, I can see why they would just kind of wing it and base it off usefulness. In this case a 10' pole is more useful than a ladder.

As another poster commented, if you don't like it change it for your game.


Darrin Drader wrote:
Robert Hawkshaw wrote:


Well, there is no alternative 2, doesn't the gsl specifically forbid products like hero labs that could compete with the DDI stuff?
Yes, but it might still be possible under regular copyright law. It would be similar to how people are doing 4E compatible products like Kingdoms of Kalamar for 4E without using the GSL. Since copyright law protects specific text, but does not protect mechanics, I think you might be able to get away with doing an electronic character generator without special licensing.

That may be true, but remember this. Just because something is allow under the law doesn't mean you will not be sued for it anyway. Even if you win, you can effectively lose because of your legal fees.


Andre Caceres wrote:

For someone who came to 3rd editon without all the baggage that a historicaly loyal D'n'D player has come with I can easily say that Pathfinder is Pathfinder. Its an another interpertation/improvment of 3rd but its no longer D'n'D as I see the name on the brand to be just that, a name.

Do not take this as seeing this as good thing. With the bad marketing, the killing of so much flu-ahh style that made D'n'D, D'n'D. Hasbro as done all they can to destroy what that name brand stands for.

For many this is why they want to call Pathfinder the new D'n'D in spirt if nothing else. In the long run this might be a bad thing as these fans are loyal but it keeps Pathfinder form becoming its own thing. I don't know the future but if Pathfinder is allowed to make a name for itself, not only will it make it the unoffical leader to the OGL movement (stronger then Conan or True20) and perhaps gain it enough power to overtake Dungeons and Dragons. This will be due more to the fact that 5th editon will be a computer game of some type, and not a pen and paper.

All this is simply to say, if you like the name Dungeons and Dragons, its changed completly.

If you love the game system of 3rd/OGL then Dungeons and Dragons is dead, long live Pathfinder.

My words won't be popular with many of you, and I don't expect them to change anything, but I think this time next year it might be time for us let the name go.

I think you are right in the long term. PRPG is not DnD. In the short term, its helpful for those who like the 3.5 path to call PRPG Dnd. I'm not saying that its right, but for those who don't follow 4.0, then PRGP is 3.5+.

I think your right. DnD 5.0 might just be a computer game of some sort. As a programmer , I love computer stuff. Still, I love what PnP (Pencil and Paper) bring to your average RPG event. Computer games have their place, but I think PnP games also have a place in gaming. Something I feel WotC seems to have forgotten about IMHO.

Just for the record, I'm don't feel 4.0 is DnD. Just as long time Traveller Player TNE is not Traveller.


Ross Byers wrote:
nblade wrote:
Archade wrote:

I'm looking forward to some of the meat in the Beta version ... my question is, what day will the Beta be available for download on the website?

I second that question. I been wanting to switch my current game over to the Alpha, but with the Beta so close, I've been thinking of waiting. Some sort of more solid release date would be nice. I'm guessing it still August but is it the first half or the latter half?

I also wonder if there will slightly different release dates for the print version ( which I pre-ordered) and the the Downloadable PDF version.

The print version and the PDF should become available at the same time via the website. My guess for the date is the monday after GenCon.

Once I found the Blog post about it, It sort of answered my questions.


Archade wrote:

I'm looking forward to some of the meat in the Beta version ... my question is, what day will the Beta be available for download on the website?

I second that question. I been wanting to switch my current game over to the Alpha, but with the Beta so close, I've been thinking of waiting. Some sort of more solid release date would be nice. I'm guessing it still August but is it the first half or the latter half?

I also wonder if there will slightly different release dates for the print version ( which I pre-ordered) and the the Downloadable PDF version.


thefishcometh wrote:
My issue with it is the possibility for a PC to learn a new language in one day while they level up. I like at least a little realism in my game, or my disbelief is no longer suspended. That's why I use a skill-check system, learning a new language is no longer associated with leveling up, but instead with studying a new language. If you're good with languages, you can learn a new one quickly. If you're not, it takes a long time.

While, I understand your problem. While one is advancing from level to level you are assumed to be studying / improving. If you wanted to do something were you would take learning time into account. You could do something like have the players spend the points for their next level (sort of like Rolemaster use to do) and then do the skill increases when they level up. You could even allow them to gain partial skill increases when they reach half way through a level. To be honest, I think it's more trouble than its worth but that's just my 2 gold pennies worth.


Justin Ricobaldi wrote:


I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that 4th Ed will sell more minis and books for WotC while sacrificing some of the fans in the process.

I have to say that around here, most of the players I know feel that WotC is sacrificed a lot of their fan base.


Disciple of Sakura wrote:
I haven't gotten to run much of anything with Pathfinder yet, but my personal preference is for max HD plus Constitution score. It gives starting PCs more hit points, which allows low level characters to actually confront a length of adventures without having to worry about one lucky attack dropping them. I don't feel as compelled to pull punches against low level characters to spare them from one or two lucky attacks. The few encounters in Hollow's Last Hope that I ran were much more fun for the PCs because of their extra HP, and I still felt like they were somewhat challenged. Especially since they lacked a cleric and thus couldn't reliably heal up.

To be honest, the HD+Con Score isn't a new mechanic. Several other games that were similar to DnD had examples of that mechanic. I'm a bit torn as to which method to use if any. Like one of the other posts mentioned, there is an issue with the old Monsters that needs to be sorted. Any method that's good for the players has to be good for the monsters. So in the HD+Con Score, the monsters should also get their con score added. Over all that's not that many HP for most creatures. Still it is an issue to be considered.

Personally, out of the methods suggested, I'm very likely to use either flat or none as it will make conversions a little more straight forward.