|
so I just saw the PRPG beta preview files, and noticed that the prices of the 10ft. pole and 10ft. ladder remain unchanged. The pole still costs 2sp while the ladder costs 5cp. I know it isn't too big an issue, but while you're including the chapter in the book anyway, couldn't you just switch the prices around?
|
|
10ft ladders are more common than 10ft poles.
I can think several places in my town where I could buy the ladder, with many options on style, materials and quality.
I don't know of any place that would have a 10ft pole in stock. Most lumber is in 6ft or 8ft sizes, most paint poles would be 4ft to 6ft, aside from expanding pruning poles saws, that 10ft pole would be special order.
|
10ft ladders are more common than 10ft poles.
I can think several places in my town where I could buy the ladder, with many options on style, materials and quality.
I don't know of any place that would have a 10ft pole in stock. Most lumber is in 6ft or 8ft sizes, most paint poles would be 4ft to 6ft, aside from expanding pruning poles saws, that 10ft pole would be special order.
In today's marketplace, true. But in a simpler time/fantasy world? I agree with the OP; a ladder entails more lumber and more workmanship, and would likely command a higher price than the much simpler pole.
I'll have to check my PHB, but isn't a 10-foot pole telescoping for easier storage? Maybe that neat little feature costs more. I'll have to get back to this later.
There are two solutions here:
First, just change the price of the pole. This is the simplest solution.
Second, as discussed in the Polearms thread over in the d20 subforum, 10 feet is a pretty long pole to just carry around. If a '10-foot pole' is really two 5-foot poles with a screw fitting, for ease of transport, that could easily justify its price, and it's value to adventurers.
so I just saw the PRPG beta preview files, and noticed that the prices of the 10ft. pole and 10ft. ladder remain unchanged. The pole still costs 2sp while the ladder costs 5cp. I know it isn't too big an issue, but while you're including the chapter in the
book anyway, couldn't you just switch the prices around?
Of the cuff, I wanted to say that they only wanted to add new equipment not change the prices that were in the SRD.
However, I keep flip flopping around on the issue. In general prices in games are not "accurate" by any measure. They sometimes don't make logical sense for the game world they are in. Many times prices are function of how useful they are to adventures rather than what it would really cost. Since there is really no good benchmarks and one may not have historical items' cost, I can see why they would just kind of wing it and base it off usefulness. In this case a 10' pole is more useful than a ladder.
As another poster commented, if you don't like it change it for your game.
Isn't there a scheme whereby a PC buys a ladder, strips off the rungs, and has two 10' poles, which he sells for more money? It's like an infinity cash loop, right?
I always assumed the pole was telescoping, or collapsible, or in sections. Otherwise carrying it around would more or less prevent you from having a weapon and a shield, or a weapon and a lantern, or whatever.
Most likely the extra coin is for the miniature efficient quiver that only stores a ten foot pole. ::shrug::
Folks are quite mistaken. The 10-ft pole is a rental. It comes with two 3-ft. guys to carry it (or depending on your trim package option -- three 2-ft. guys).
CJ
Isn't there a scheme whereby a PC buys a ladder, strips off the rungs, and has two 10' poles, which he sells for more money? It's like an infinity cash loop, right?
Yep. The punchline is 'And you can still burn the rungs for firewood'.
There is a similar one for buying one of the cheaper sets of clothes and selling it as cloth or canvar.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
|
A 10 ft. iron pole is definitely going to be far more expensive than a commmon wooden ladder. Ladders are used by every Joe Commoner for multiple uses. Iron poles are a specialty item. The local blacksmith won't just have a casting mold for a 10 foot pole, but the local carpenter can whip out a ladder in no time. Poles are not collapsable either. You haul it in a wagon or in a stirrup/sling on a mule like a flag or lance...
And AFAIK polearms have wooden hafts.
Isn't there a scheme whereby a PC buys a ladder, strips off the rungs, and has two 10' poles, which he sells for more money? It's like an infinity cash loop, right?Yep .. problem is it doesn't work.
A cheap 10' ladder is actually just a pair of rough-hewn boards that are probably notched at regular intervals and have other, shorter boards slotted in between them. Cut the "rungs" and you just end up with two rough, wooden boards.
The pole is more expensive because it is a long piece of wood that is without any knots and has been turned on a lathe big enough to handle it and been worked and smoothed down to its current shape/form by a skilled craftsman.
Ladders are made from whatever knotty old piece of reasonably-straight lumber is lying around.
The people who talk about the "ladder/pole trick" have never done any actual woodwork, I suspect, or for that matter even taken a really close look at how a period ladder was constructed. The "rule-breaker" doesn't work in reality, and shouldn't in fantasy, either.
Pole-turning was actually an important and respected craft that required skill and care.
FWIW,
Rez
P.S. I do have professional carpentry experience.
Sadly, this doesn't stop the deforestation to create quarterstaves in 0 seconds trick. Not that that necessarily nets you money, but still...
Rez, I agree, but for the trap-poking needs of adventurers, that rough board would suffice.
And quarterstaves are still free. I think that a line of text specifying that a ten-foot pole comes in multiple pieces or is otherwise collapsable is an elegant and practical solution.
10ft ladders are more common than 10ft poles.
I can think several places in my town where I could buy the ladder, with many options on style, materials and quality.
I don't know of any place that would have a 10ft pole in stock. Most lumber is in 6ft or 8ft sizes, most paint poles would be 4ft to 6ft, aside from expanding pruning poles saws, that 10ft pole would be special order.
That’s because modern ladders have to conform to OSHA requirements and other safety standards. If you look at a modern ladder, even the most simple (and cheap) one available at a national chain hardware store, you’ll find that it is most likely reinforced by steel bars, held together by steel rivets, and quality tested to ensure that it can withstand the advertised maximum load.
On the other hand, the type of ladder one imagines would be commonly found in the average D&D general store would literally consist of nothing more than two ten-foot-long sticks (read: poles), some wooden rungs (little poles), and a handful of nails (not necessarily good nails).
So while it would take a considerable expenditure of time and energy to disassemble a modern ladder (even with modern tools), it would take no more than two or three minutes to tear apart a medieval ladder, with nothing more than a hacksaw or hatchet.
Keep in mind that (in my campaigns, at least) there is no D&D equivalent to OSHA. Who exactly is going to be enforcing 10ft pole quality regulations? If a 10ft pole is too low-quality to be usable, then it should be obvious (filled with knotholes, rotting, etc.). That’s not something a PC should find out when he’s climbing across a bottomless pit. He shouldn’t have to ask if the pole is constructed to meet Waterdeep Builder’s Association code.
As others have already stated, it would be immensely useful if 10ft poles came with extra features, like reinforcement, or joints so they could be collapsed. However, those things need to be specifically added to the item description. Otherwise, DMs will assume they aren’t part of the normal item. In the 3.0 Arms and Equipment guide, such poles cost extra. They cost an inordinate amount, but still more than the standard pole. I think the standard price is fine for a 10ft pole that collapses to two to four feet in length.
|
so I just saw the PRPG beta preview files, and noticed that the prices of the 10ft. pole and 10ft. ladder remain unchanged. The pole still costs 2sp while the ladder costs 5cp. I know it isn't too big an issue, but while you're including the chapter in the book anyway, couldn't you just switch the prices around?
Supply and Demand, supply and demand, sqwawk! Polly wanna cracker?
|
Frankly, if a quarterstaff is free, a 10 foot pole should be as well.
The tree dropped to the ground.
"Hah! Two silvers for a ten foot pole be damned..." The Scribe hoisted the pole on his shoulder and walked off.Out of nowhere an angry man with a sword appeared.
"Oy! Where do you get off cutting down my saplings?" He waved the sword menacingly.
"A copper piece. NOW!" THe Sword waved under the Scribe's nose.
My own suspicion is that the 10' pole Guild is almost as powerful as the 50' rope Guild.
"Allo, allo... just 'ow long a piece of wood is it you're carryin' there, guv'? Wouldn't be an 8' piece off a ladder, now would it? Can't be 'aving that. And you there... is that a 20' length o' rope? Oh, now we're just gonna 'ave to talk 'bout that, aren't we..."
Rez, I agree, but for the trap-poking needs of adventurers, that rough board would suffice.Not really. A 10' length of 2x4 is really unwieldy, not to mention heavy. Go down to Home Depot and give it a try :-)
A 10' pole would be more like a 2x2 that had been turned and rounded out ... probably with slightly tapered ends. That makes it only about 30% the weight of the ladder-board, and much easier to hold.
IMHO, anyway.
Rez
I have (Well, Home Depot has 8' pieces, but close enough). A 2x4 is unwieldly but doable. A 2x2 isn't bad at all, though, and I can easily imagine making a medieval ladder with 2x2s and rope.
i agree with rez.
a 2x2 would make a horible ladder. it would be way more bouncy than fiberglass, and not nearly as strong. 2x2 would not hold up the weight of a male human of average height for very long. if at all. the notches required to cut into the uprights to hold the rungs would not be deep enough. just nailing them on is not a good plan. and just tying them on is even worse. you need to have the notches to distribute the weight onto the uprights. that would take at least 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch away from your 2x2. how strong do you suppose that is?
would you trust your weight on it?
also, most ladders are designed to climb up the sides of things. but would you want to lay a ladder, made out of 2x1 1/4 (the weakest point, after notching) across a pit, and walk over that in your armor?
if you die, we split your gear.
as far as taking it apart, then you have 2 rough hewn 2x4s. in order to rip them down the center to make 2 2x2s, would take an awful lot of skill, and a very good, sharp saw.
get together, drink beer, role dice.
i agree, this is a wonderful discussion about something inane. :) but then, arent they all just a little bit inane. i need to go find a good cigar, anybody know a good cigar shop in columbia, sc?
Sadly, this doesn't stop the deforestation to create quarterstaves in 0 seconds trick. Not that that necessarily nets you money, but still...
This is actually one of my favorite "destroy the world" scheme. "Why has the BBEG been hiring commoners en masse to stand around all the forests of the world in lines? Oh noes, the forests are gone!"
(The trick, for those of you that haven't seen it before, is that you place one commoner at five-foot intervals around all the trees of a forest and have them all ready an action to give whatever the guy in front of them gives them to the next guy. Then, you pull some trick to make yourself weigh less and have the commoners pass you to each other. This takes 6 seconds for you to get from one end of the group to the other. Whenever you pass a tree, you make a craft check to turn them into quarterstaves, which takes literally no time at all if your craft check is high enough. As such, total deforestation in six seconds. If you could get commoners around all the forests of the world and link the lines, you could destroy all the trees in the world in six seconds. This one is at least as good as the Omnimancer trick or Pun-Pun, IMHO.)