Races with Level Adjustments?

[MarmaladeChainsaw]

Just trying to figure out how this is intended to work in Pathfinder. I am interested in trying to use these rules with the Iron Kingdoms RPG, and two of the base races there have Level Adjustments. What do you do? I didn't see anything in the book(have the Beta), and I couldn't find anything here on the forum(my search-fu may be lacking). Any help would be appreciated. I know there are a lot of people over on Privateer's forums who are following Pathfinder pretty closely, an answer to this would help us a great deal.

Thanks

-MC

[Arovyn]

While I haven't seen anything specific, and I'm going on strictly implications and experience, it appears that what Pathfinder is trying to do is lower the overall LA by 1. There is a general increase in power and ability in the core races that can be seen as LA +1 in 3.5. That's my impression at the moment.

Arovyn

[DarkWhite]

This questions seems to pop up a lot, and it's a fair question to ask. As one of Pathfinder RPG's design goals is to remain backwardly compatible with 3.5, players will be using Pathfinder RPG as a PHB replacement for other settings.

Pathfinder Core races do seem "enhanced" compared with PHB 3.5 Core races.

The design goal would seem to be to elevate the Core races, making them more appealing, compared with races from other sources, so players will gravitate back towards Dwarves, Elves and Halflings again.

A secondary design goal would seem to be to allow more "design room" for new races, eg making cool LA+0 races without over-powering them compared to the Core races.

Some people have suggested that Pathfinder Core races are the equivalent of LA+1 races from other sources. Though a useful rule-of-thumb, each race needs to be assessed on it's own merits.

With backward compatibility in mind, I think Paizo will need to address the issue of Pathfinder Core races compared to races from other sources, either in the Races chapter of Pathfinder RPG; in the Conversion appendix; or maybe a future Pathfinder MM as it would include, for example, "Minotaurs as Characters" with appropriate level adjustments (unless Pathfinder MM overhauls the LA mechanic in favour of something new).

As Pathfinder RPG is OGL, it would be cool if the publishers of other settings released their own Conversion notes (web enhancement, PDF download, or even an updated published player guide), for example: how to run Iron Kingdoms races using Pathfinder RPG. Once Pathfinder is closer to final release, maybe Paizo could initiate such discussions with other companies.

[Kyrinn S. Eis]

DarkWhite wrote:

As Pathfinder RPG is OGL, it would be cool if the publishers of other settings released their own Conversion notes (web enhancement, PDF download, or even an updated published player guide), for example: how to run Iron Kingdoms races using Pathfinder RPG. Once Pathfinder is closer to final release, maybe Paizo could initiate such discussions with other companies.

It would delight the Iron Kingdoms player-base enormously if Paizo were to do that.

[Steelfiredragon]

I asked if they would remove the ecl altogether

[Arovyn]

Steelfiredragon wrote:

I asked if they would remove the ecl altogether

I'll have to go find you post and put down my agreement with that idea.

[MarmaladeChainsaw]

Thanks for the replies everyone! It was very helpful. When you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense. It does seem that the core races are on an equivalent power level to ECL 1 races from before.

Thanks again.

-MC

[Kyrinn S. Eis]

MarmaladeChainsaw wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone! It was very helpful. When you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense. It does seem that the core races are on an equivalent power level to ECL 1 races from before.

Thanks again.

-MC

Let's see how the Iron Path devs take the news over on the forum.

[LazarX]

Kyrinn S. Eis wrote:

DarkWhite wrote:

As Pathfinder RPG is OGL, it would be cool if the publishers of other settings released their own Conversion notes (web enhancement, PDF download, or even an updated published player guide), for example: how to run Iron Kingdoms races using Pathfinder RPG. Once Pathfinder is closer to final release, maybe Paizo could initiate such discussions with other companies.

It would delight the Iron Kingdoms player-base enormously if Paizo were to do that.

Yes but the other companies publishing those products wouldn't be so happy. If Paizo were to publish conversion material for example RIFTs, Kevin Siembada would (and in the past HAS) sue.

[Matthew Morris]

LazarX wrote:

Kyrinn S. Eis wrote:

DarkWhite wrote:

As Pathfinder RPG is OGL, it would be cool if the publishers of other settings released their own Conversion notes (web enhancement, PDF download, or even an updated published player guide), for example: how to run Iron Kingdoms races using Pathfinder RPG. Once Pathfinder is closer to final release, maybe Paizo could initiate such discussions with other companies.

It would delight the Iron Kingdoms player-base enormously if Paizo were to do that.

Yes but the other companies publishing those products wouldn't be so happy. If Paizo were to publish conversion material for example RIFTs, Kevin Siembada would (and in the past HAS) sue.

[Inego Montoya] I do not think you are reading what I am reading [/Inego Montoya]

Kyrinn is saying it would be nice if Iron Kingdoms publisher (Privateer Press? I don't remember) put out a 'conversion to Pathfinder RPG' PDF. Not if Paizo did.

[DeathQuaker]

LazarX wrote:

Yes but the other companies publishing those products wouldn't be so happy. If Paizo were to publish conversion material for example RIFTs, Kevin Siembada would (and in the past HAS) sue.

Sure someone would sue if Paizo officially published conversion notes for a game system they don't have the rights to. The fix to that is of course get permission--or even partner with the other creators for the purposes of publishing the conversion with.

I could see, say, Privateer Press getting down with working on a conversion for Iron Kingdoms. Kevin Siembieda I don't know.

Edit: Ninja'd! Of course, having the other publishers post conversions works to... but then they need Paizo's permission, I think? Unless OGL elimiantes that need.

[nblade]

DeathQuaker wrote:

Edit: Ninja'd! Of course, having the other publishers post conversions works to... but then they need Paizo's permission, I think? Unless OGL elimiantes that need.

Basically the OGL does eliminate some that need. However at this moment in time the Beta is considered closed source. They has stated that they will release the final, there will be something like the SRD that is OGL and there will be a simple Pathfinder Compatible Logo License as well. The General thrust of what I've read has been, Paizo wants to have something to use so they can publish AP and to allow other 3.5 OGL people to have something to use as well.

[Gnome-Eater]

1) I agree that it is generally held that all races are considered -1 LA, given the bumped power of the core races.

2) I'm not sure how one could get rid of ECL? I know 4e does it, but I'm not sure how and if that is translatable to PFRPG.

3) MarmaladeChainsaw - I'd love to see any notes or play tests you have with an Iron Kingdoms RPG. I've toyed with the idea for a long time of incorporating Iron Kingdom things into my game, specifically the technology, but havent found the right balance.

[KamiNoBaka]

Wouldn't it get around legal problems if they made a general note in the pathfinder core book that said for races from other sources that have a level adjustment, decrease that level adjustment by one?