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mojo27 wrote:

Brain in a Jar wrote:

Using Extended Range or Extreme Range on Basic Telekinesis is using an Infusion.

Using an Infusion has a burn cost unless otherwise noted in its description.

What is the burn cost of using Extended or Extreme Range on Basic Telekinesis?

Extended Range wrote:

Source Occult Adventures pg. 19 (Amazon)
Element universal; Type form infusion; Level 1; Burn 1
Associated Blasts any
Saving Throw none
Your kinetic blast can strike any target within 120 feet.

That is the normal Extended Range. It costs 1 Burn and only works on Kinetic Blasts.

Basic Telekinesis wrote:

If you possess the extended range wild talent, you can increase the range of basic telekinesis to medium range and increase the rate of movement to 30 feet per round,.."

It doesn't apply it for free, just allows its use with Basic Telekinesis.

Never mind, I have fat fingers.

I asked the same question about Extended Range and Basic Telekinesis back in August and got the response that using Ranged infusions didn't incur burn.

Using Extended Range or Extreme Range on Basic Telekinesis is using an Infusion.

Using an Infusion has a burn cost unless otherwise noted in its description.

What is the burn cost of using Extended or Extreme Range on Basic Telekinesis?

[edit] Okay, I see the disconnect here. I thought there was a burn cost for ranged infusions on Basic Telekinesis as well, but there isn't. Sorry about the confusion.

@Brain in a Jar:

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said the "reading" thing, that was petty.

Personally I think this is one of those things that probably gets caught up in designer intent and dictionary-definitions.

I would argue that the line from Kinetic Chirurgery

A kinetic chirurgeon can never use infusions.

doesn't preclude them from the "possession" of an infusion the Basic Telekinsis talent requires for added benefits.

I think it comes down to whether its Extended Ranged modifying Basic Telekinesis (nope, can't use Infusions), or Basic Telekinesis sublimating possession of a couple of infusions.

mojo27 wrote:

Quote:

A kinetic chirurgeon can never use infusions.

In reference to the comment I quoted, could a Kinetic Chirurgeon "gain" an infusion?

Even if they did they still couldn't use it. So what's the point.

The point that I was making was that an Aether Kinetic Chirurgeon with Basic Telekinesis would get improved range and speed with that wild talent if they "possessed" the Extended Range Infusion.

Did you not read what I typed in my first post?

A kinetic chirurgeon can never use infusions.

In reference to the comment I quoted, could a Kinetic Chirurgeon "gain" an infusion? (i.e. from Extra Wild Talent)

To be fair... even if you technically could gain the infusion, you wouldn't be able to ever use it. :D

Sorry to NECRO this thread, but this was really pertinent to something I was researching.

Let's say you have a Kinetic Chirurgeon based off Aether; with Basic Telekinesis, it doesn't appear that you need to be able to use something like Extended Range Infusion, just have it, to get the longer range and faster movement...

...If you possess the extended range wild talent, you can increase the range of basic telekinesis to medium range and increase the rate of movement to 30 feet per round, and if you possess the extreme range wild talent, You can increase the range of basic telekinesis to long range and increase the rate of movement to 60 feet per round...

So even if it's legal by RAW, it feels a little weird RAI to be learning and benefiting from a distance-increasing infusion that you have never, and will never use.

Would this be a tiny corner-case where a Kinetic Chirurgeon could benefit from learning an infusion?

Kinetic Blast (Sp)

As a standard action, the kineticist can unleash a kinetic blast at a single target up to a range of 30 feet. She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn't have hands).

So a Grippli Kineticist that took the Agile Tongue feat, with hands bound, couldn't aim her blast. But if somehow her hands were cut off, suddenly she could use her Agile Tongue to aim her Blast.

Gather Power (Su)

If she has both hands free (or all of her prehensile appendages free, for unusual kineticists), a kineticist can gather energy or elemental matter as a move action.

After getting her other hand cut off, now she can Gather Power with her Agile Tongue and really start giving it to her captors.

I know I'm being pedantic, but what the hell is the reasoning behind the "handiness" of Kineticists? Carrying shields?

I think it'd be cool to have some kind of mechanic to emulate those "Energy Blast Contests" you see in anime and movies, something like Gohan vs. Cell's Kamehameha battle or Iceman vs. Pyro in X-Men 3. Cool ▬ maybe not useful or practical though.

I figure you'd have to start with the Kineticist readying a blast to counterspell, either the default version or with the Kinetic Counter feat. If the Kineticist fails the check, they can opt to "open a small rift in to the Ethereal plane" that adds Elemental substance to the blast, setting its duration to Concentration action. This same rift would allow the enemy to turn their spell/ability to Concentration...

Nevermind, it's only the Kinetic Counter version of counterspelling that can fail the Caster Level check, I guess. I'm not sure how to get an "Energy Blast Contest" started. But it should involve some contested Concentration checks and be a lot simpler than Psychic Duels though.

Could I use it to move teammates by moving their armor or clothes?

In addition to what's been said, the Aether Puppet utility talent at level 10 doesn't seem by RAW to have the unattended restrictions as Animate Object, so you can move friends and enemies clothes/armor around however you want.

It depends on what's considered a single "item" and whether you can use Construction Points to give an Animated Object a movement form that's not obvious (i.e. does an object need some kind of wing-like objects to fly, or can it levitate)

Also Aether and Water didn't really have a 'trademark' utility wild talent like air (air's reach), fire (fire's fury), and earth (enduring earth), and I'd like to see them get one since those were some of my favorites.

As far as Aether goes, I would consider Telekinetic Haul to be their 'trademark' utility talent. Granted it only affects Basic Telekinesis and Telekinetic Blast, but because it increases their weight limit so much, it makes me feel like you're not really a Telekineticist until you take Haul.

Crap, I lost some edits. A Telekineticist with TK Haul can do things by level 4 and 5 that would take level 15 for a caster to do. And by level 15 when a caster is struggling to move something like a motorcycle, a Telekineticist is floating around buses.

As for water...I got nothing. If I had to guess, their "trademark utility" would be Water Manipulator?

When using Aether Puppet to animate a foe's armor, what type of action should be used by the armor to move the foe, and vice versa?

Move grapple action, Reposition combat maneuver, opposed Strength check?

Thanks.

The Basic Telekinesis wild talent states in its description...

"If you possess the extended range wild talent, you can increase the range of basic telekinesis to medium range and increase the rate of movement to 30 feet per round, and if you possess the extreme range wild talent, you can increase the range of basic telekinesis to long range and increase the rate of movement to 60 feet per round."

Does this cost Burn, or are the Infusions just modifying the base talent?

Could a Grippli use Agile Tongue to reload guns? Say, a Grippli Gunslinger that was dual-wielding pistols, and had the feats and whatnot to bring reloading down to a free action?

It seems to me the Sleight of Hand and Steal maneuvers the feat enables would allow for enough precision to reload a gun. However, the feat doesn't say you can wield a weapon with the tongue; I'm not sure if reloading a weapon would somehow be considered as "wielding" it.