enchanted clothes have a max of +5. Both from explorer's clothing and bracers of armor, which are the ways to use unarmored defense. So it's actually 10 flat, 20 level, 8 proficiency, 5 dex, 2 shield, 3 bracers for 48.
EDIT: and the guy in full plate has high Str, so he does more damage and can carry more gear, and maybe invest in a couple other stats, like having a higher Wisdom for a better save there (because you'll want Str anyway on the unarmored guy)
For your section on setting DCs, such as for that hedge maze, you might want to mention that a GM should be wary of the Assurance skill feat when converting skill check challenges. For your example, Assurance + Expert in any 4 of the skills would beat the maze every time without any chance of failure.
I'd like to argue that a couple Backgrounds are better than they're given credit for.
The Bounty Hunter Background should be Orange, not Red. By taking Assurance, you negate most of the penalty for builds without very high Wisdom, which means, while it needs support, it could work.
Farmhand should also be rated as Orange instead of Red. Assurance in Athletics makes for a very OP third attack; with investment in it, you can regularly use a good maneuver that's likely to work (100% or 0%, but more enemies lose to it than not). Disarm and Trip, basically. Granted, it takes a level (for Rogues) or two (everyone else) to come online, and requires a focus.
Laborer: I've done a few builds, and Hefty Hauler is virtually a must for martials. It should be at least Green over Orange. Also, Athletics is a powerful option (see my argument for Farmhand)
Scholar: Assurance in the knowledge skills is situational, but it does allow, with skill investment, for 100% guaranteed lower-level rituals to succeed without mental stat investment. It also gives a good set of choices for a skill, and those skills are all useful. I'd argue for Orange.
Warpriest gets buffs, though. Both defensive and offensive. Warpriest's Heal divine font is, for two actions, approximately half their HP - rounding DOWN on how powerful that is. So in a vaccuum, a Cleric actually has a LOT more HP than the Fighter, and also has some area attacks for, say, groups of enemies.
Fighter is sustained power. The Cleric gets some tricks, including some AOEs and single-target effects. I'd rate the Cleric as better, but only because of the versatility and sheer tankiness their spells grant them.
Reminder that I posted a Boomsinger in a very small link in a big post. It's also on the main page, linke to in the first.
This one was a real pain to make: The Arch-Necromancer, a warpriest of Urgathoa with some bonus loot, because they're meant as an end-boss. Yes, that's TWO caster multiclasses, wizard and sorcerer (functionally identical to Bard, though) for an archmage to bring the pain! I tried to make sure lower-level spells known don't care about scaling. This deadly war mage can cast a variety of destruction, or can drink a mutagen looted from an alchemist to bring tremendous melee pain with their vorpal scythe.
I'll probably avoid caster multiclasses for a while. Those are a pain to design.
I also added some Basic Crafter's Books to multiple NPCs for some smithing potential. The level 1 Thug and the level 4 Crusader do NOT have them due to bulk concerns (and wealth, in one case, IIRC).
regarding the asymmetric rules: My philosophy is that if it's a valid race to play, then (barring plot reasons, etc) a player should be able to pick up the NPC and use it (aka, promote an allied NPC to PC if their old PC dies). Starfinder, for example, violated this rule so hard I don't play it. As it is, it looks like the NPCs in the Bestiary sorta-correspond to things the players can do and are just simplified, so I'm just gritting my teeth there.
It's not like my builds are invalid for use as NPCs. They can be plopped right in, using the powers they have. After all, level X is supposed to mean level X, unlike in pf1e, where CR was something of a joke in my group. *cough*one-rounded a demon lord at level 18ish*cough*. If monsters are supposed to be more accurate at the cost of armor class, then okay: these builds mean slightly longer fights.
Anyway, here's a Boomsinger, a Charhide Goblin Fey Sorcerer MCD Bard. At level 9, they're moderately foolish for a caster, and not that diplomatic for a sorcerer or bard. A musician/artist at heart, but their erratic personality means they get a bad start on that. At 18, they've learned a bit, and aren't the sort you want to convince to leave, anymore. They also get much better at their previously passable but unremarkable artistic skill.
Upcoming plans: Temple Guards (Monks), and a Necromancer.
If people have builds that go here as NPCs, then go ahead and post them here; I'll credit you on my document by the link to the build.
Since 2e classes are so front-loaded, I feel like characters should not get any initial proficiencies from their second class other than class or spellcasting DC.
Two proficiency tracks. Use whichever is greater: the better class's track using JUST that class's track, or something which corresponds to the total level on the weaker class's track. Fine tuning could be with an X level penalty or bonus or something.
A few classes might have some issues, but that seems like a good starting point to me.
I don't see what their price or bulk should be, but they're a component that people don't automatically have.
Does anyone know what their stats should be?
(Also a thread I posted on this before seems to have gone missing entirely, maybe I hit preview or cancel instead of submit. If both threads exist somehow, sorry.)
Replying to Fuzzy-Wuzzy and Captain Morgan:
action 1: as cleric, cast a 1-action divine spell (Heal? Shield?) Non-cantrips only if not Cleric.
You can use a 2-action spell for one of those if you're under a Haste effect. Such as, from wizard or arcane/occult/primal sorcerer. Also Bespell weapon is lower level than Divine weapon, so Cleric/other caster.
It's not at once, but it's still the same turn. It looks like both last until the turn's end, not just the next action.
First: THANK YOU!!!
Second: the Sorcerer's Will save is listed as never progressing beyond Expert. I believe there was dev commentary saying they should have gotten Resolve at the same level as the Wizard.
EDIT, Third: Maximum skill proficiency neglects the Rogue, which has no indication of being locked to Trained at level 2.
EDIT, Fourth: should we assume the "all others" for spell DCs and attack rolls ignores multiclassing?
How do you envision Edicts and Anathema being prioritized?
I'm not sure if I'm able to change the title. As for their use: npcs mainly, but also valid pcs. I have no desire to utilize asymmetric rules, so I'll not rebuild them, nor build any other, using such rules (which I regard as cheating). If we get something like elite/basic arrays, I might use those.
I spammed long-duration buffs at the start of the adventuring day.
Combat spells, which I only rarely used:
Basically, my shtick was that it was really hard to hurt us (the rest of the party had great AC, and I shored up our energy damage), made the party more accurate, made VERY sure nothing would sneak up on us, and made very sure we had countermeasures to the "save or dies" that the AP loved spamming - or at least made them waste a turn dispelling, which would let our martials slaughter them in the mean time.
It will be a while before that level of utility enters PF2, due to the nerfs to magic, but I definitely see some useful utility at most levels, before heightening. But now? Cantrips mean we'll have a combat presence ANYWAY. I agree that EVERYTHING (except Cantrips) into utility is currently a waste; a mage needs a few blasts now for the tougher enemies. But my philosophy is, the whole power of magic is solving problems you can't otherwise solve, not blasting a hole in things.
I hope that more utility spells will be released soon, allowing my favorite toolbox build to return.
Inspired by Ravingdork's 1st edition emporium, I present to you my work on characters. Inspiration, quick NPCs, and any other use you can think of, go ahead.
My opening four are:
The Stout Defender, a Dwarven soldier. Rather than make multiple builds for for different weapons, I included stats for each of these. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
The Thug, just a shady human of malign intentions. (1, 4, 7)
The Cleansing Flame Priest, a Half-Elf Cloistered Cleric of Sarenrae, who starts as a healer who can defend the temple, then grows into a powerful force, both on the battlefield and in politics. This build assumes it's Easy for them to activate a Staff of Fire - Sarenrae gives half the spells in the staff to her followers, and they DO have the Fire Domain, after all. (3, 8, 13)
I also welcome suggestions for better organization, both on the index and in individual characters. I will also consider requests for what to prioritize next.
John Lynch 106 wrote:
I'm going to assume an "almost" in there because of a wizard should have some personal defense spells.
Playing a wizard, I did this in a 1e campain. (We lacked a Cleric, but had a water kineticist for healing.) The sheer number of things my defense/utility buff spells helped negate was amazing, even though I didn't have any combat presence other than just a crossbow and a COUPLE personal defense spells.
But here in 2e? I think that build doesn't work so well. Aside from the protection spells getting nerfed, they're not on our spell list any more. Also there's not so many utility spells anymore... yet.
But find a few spells you like, and then just the cantrips Produce Flame/Acid Splash and Electric Arc will give you a combat presence. At that point, I don't think the wizard can be wasted, except by preparing only spells that aren't relevant.
(edited out a few things I'm not responding to)First, multiclassing to two casters means that is basically ALL you are going to do. You will lack the martial specialization of any other class. Second, the build I suggest is an arcane/primal Theurge. If you decide you have ENOUGH casting, then just ditch the later feats and requirements.
Okay, Kyrone posted a decent build there, but here:
Ancestry: Not Halfling or Gnome. I recommend Human, preferably Half-Elf but maybe Versatile.
At level-up 5, boost Str/Dex/Con/one mental stat. For non-goblins, boost the 12 mental stat first. Goblins, may want Wis first to patch their Will save.
Background: Anything that isn't +2 cha/+2 free. Since everything has a choice between two ability scores, you just need to shuttle your other free boosts to get these builds. If one of them looks CLOSE to what you want, you can easily shuttle some things around, like losing a little Dex for a better Str.
Bounty Hunter, Hunter, Guard, Scout, or Warrior would be in line with Ranger, I feel. Especially Bounty Hunter and Scout; their skill rank changes to Free.
Class: Ranger, obviously.
Skills: Make sure to have Nature and Arcana at Master before the Expert casting, and Legendary before the Master casting.
Feats at 12,14,16 can be moved around. Skill feats are all free.
Half-Elf works best because you have the second-best Con and can swipe better Movement from the Elf feats.
For the record, at this time I think having only ONE casting tradition would be better; Fighter or Champion would make better eldritch knight theurges, or a Cleric/Druid chassis for theurgy.
I also think maybe a Storm Druid chassis would be better for this build, then snag some arcane power later.
Also, yeah, this build doesn't do melee well until 5 at least. Elf and Dwarf, wait until 10 for decent damage. I recommend Finesse weapons at all times. Focus on the archery.
To put it lightly, there are a lot. From just human with NO flaw I got, from spreading out or condensing as needed, 11 builds
From highest score to lowest, sub-sorted by lower stats
16, 16, 14, 12, 10, 10 *
14, 14, 14, 14, 12, 10
The only rules are that the 10s cannot be the class stat, and the 18 must be the class stat (and cannot be Con)
(6 ways to use the class boost, 15 ways each for race, freebies, and background, but once you don't pile it all into the top stat, you start getting repeat results.)
If you want to add a flaw to that, then make sure to compare it to other arrays to see if it isn't completely outclassed.
James Jacobs wrote:
Following up on this: Is Golarion on a route to become Magitech, and any timeline on about when major milestones are going to happen? (Considering spacefaring starts sometime before Starfinder happens, and all)
James Jacobs wrote:
I was thinking more to the tune of, and I haven't read enough of the 1e deities to know if this works, someone who's personally chaotic but has a philosophy of "Good above all, but if you want to rework the law instead of ignoring it, that's fine by me" or the like.
So, why not Gozreh now that Druids are any alignment, or Nethys?
Are there any plans for future conversions of some deities to allow followers more than one alignment step away? (Mainly asking re: one of the two alignments on Law/Chaos or Good/Evil being more incidental than not, and thus, say, a CG god allowing LG followers or the like OR a true Neutral allowing a corner alignment)
Got a rules question about Pathfinder Second Edition? Post it here! And we might answer them on stream!
I'm going to have to figure out how to make those action symbols in google docs, or some up with my own notation to suit my preferred style of character sheet, BUT:
Here's a generic Rogue MCD Sorcerer NPC I made for levels 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20
At level 1, it's just a common thief or smuggler, but could be re-skinned / realigned as a military scout or a spy for an institution - especially magical - or a cutthroat assassin, or a brigand.
You might take note of the "v1". I have intentions of continuing this into the other three spell lists with minor changes, as well as one for each of the other casting classes. Seven more of this, though they'll mostly swap Arcana for something else, or swap Cha and Int or Wis, and a few different wands.
EDIT: But there are other builds I want to try, first.
(Actually, I'm sometimes a GM, sometimes a player, but my philosophy is that if I can't challenge my table, even when they have access to it, that I need to step up my game. Outside a couple weird builds, we're all optimizers, and even then some).
And I meant, not just PC casters. Even the NPCs because of how useful some would be for society. But, as you said, not on the team that decided rarities, so I guess that's it for that topic.
What are some of Nocticula's most defining opinions regarding other deities, especially any in the core 20? (EDIT: My group has plans for a 1e game with her ascended, namely the latest Runelords AP. I might make one of her faithful, is why I'm asking.)
2) Speaking of spells and Rarity, what was the design intention with the spell selection? Actually, for most things that aren't tied to a specific race (Dwarven/Elven weapons, etc), but especially the spells.
I'm mainly asking this and the previous question because I feel like the spells targeted for marking as Uncommon are the ones that most casters would make a beeline for.
Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
True, fullplate loses by +1 Reflex if you get 18 Dex, by +2 Reflex if you get 20. But you also pay 4 stats points worth elsewhere (up to 18) for that +1 Reflex/AC. Could get +2 Fortitude/or HP, or +2 Will/Perception, or +2 Skills/languages, or Cha to for social. In that regard, that +1 Reflex/AC is possibly more costly than 1-3 general feats, especially for a caster that might want his Casting Stat at 20 as well. That's 8 stat points worth at the very least. Str can settle on 18 for penalty negation, while unarmored must 20 to pass it in +AC by a whole +1AC if I recall. (5+4=9 vs 6+2=8)
Actually, you're spending most if not all of those increases on STR so that you can overcome the plate's Bulk and STR threshold.
Note, a Cloistered Cleric maxes at 16 Dex at 1, so it's actually 2 AC lower because light/medium armor brings it up to a cap of 5, where the dex is only +3 there. At level 10, the cloistered cleric catches up just fine.
And don't that boost to casting. Granted, the Divine spell list seems more defensive than the others, but I'm fairly sure there are enough options in it that the increased DC could be very useful if you go for a more classical "Mage" style.
All caster multiclasses get an X Breadth feat along with their basic/expert/master casting for character level 8 or up. Doubles spell slots except for the two highest. So you end up at 20 as
Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
And yes, I stand by it. If you feel that Fullplate is and I quote what's been said here, dunno by whom though "obsolete" on account of being -1AC behind, then that sounds and feels powergamey.
The AC penalty is noticeable because the character would presumably also go out of the armor during downtime, and the penalty hinders survival. A character wanting to survive is not powergamey.