idwraith's page

I actually own a couple of sword canes and they're presenting a pretty accurate realism in the way they've got the stats set. For one thing, you can't "use it as a club" because it's hollow and usually not even 2" in diameter. You try to use the cane as a club and it'll shatter around the blade. It doesn't crit as easily because the handle and balance are not as good as a regular sword. The same lack of balance and design limitations is why its a more complicated weapon. (That being said I'd house rule that Bards and Rogues get to use it as their class, it is a stealth weapon)

The sword cane is also one of the two weapons the Magus Archetype Black-Blade can use for it's intelligent weapon.

This is a style weapon.

idwraith wrote:

Nothing says that you can't make ADDITIONAL attacks when using Vital Strike, the just say that the feat only applies to ONE attack. Same with Called Shot, you can only do ONE per attack. So you'd still get your secondary attacks, they just wouldn't be as crippling.

Actually, the Vital Strike feat itself says that you can't use it when you make more than a single attack because it says "when you use the attack action".

By definition the attack action is a single attack.

If you could use Vital strike as part of a full round attack it would be amazing....amazing enough that it would be broken. But you can't.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#attack

That's actually debatable because they talk about things being part of an "attack action" and the only other references to that phrase its a hyphenated full-attack action whereas they just say Standard Attack, never standard attack-action so personally I'd like to see an errata on the matter.

Vital Strike (Combat)
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.

I'm actually inclined to AGREE with you, but the wording of how you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus implies that you can make OTHER attacks at lower attack bonuses you just can't apply the vital strike. So, like I said, I'd like to see errata on it to clear up the wording.

Ultimate Combat's feat Death or Glory allows for use of Vital Strike and it's tree in a full-attack vs large or larger opponents but they get an attack against you in return with the same bonuses (those given by the feat, not vital strike)

Ultimate Combat's feat Devastating Strike gives you an extra +2 (up to +6) for each multiplier given by Vital Strike which is added to your base damage AND gets multiplied on a critical hit.

So, ultimately yes, I agree with you.

I still maintain that trading multiple attacks for an attack capable of crippling your opponent for MINUTES if not killing him outright through called shot is worth it. Especially with the additional feats in the Ultimate Combat. You can design a two-handed fighter that simply devastated his opponents in slow methodical combat, taking them apart in a brutal fashion.

There were like 3 empty feat slots in that build I posted, nothing stops you from putting Furious Focus in there in one of the empty slots.

A Fighter gets a feat EVERY level. I 20th level human fighter has 21 feats. There's absolutely no reason you can't customize the crap out of them.

Adding Furious Focus to that mix and that power shot first attack would be a +21 to hit the arm, leg or chest in a called shot or +19 to hit the head or hand.

Nothing says that you can't make ADDITIONAL attacks when using Vital Strike, the just say that the feat only applies to ONE attack. Same with Called Shot, you can only do ONE per attack. So you'd still get your secondary attacks, they just wouldn't be as crippling.

I'd have to say that the Vital Strike line combined with the Called Shot line can be VERY impressive.

Sure, you're only doing one attack per round, but those attacks can be devastating.

Take a 10th level Fighter
Weapon Training Heavy Blades +2 Hit/Damage (We'll say he's a great sword swinger)
You popped an 18 into strength, bumped it to a 20, now it's a 22 (you're very dedicated) after your 4th & 8th level ability boosts. You're human.

1st Weapon Focus Greatsword +1 to hit
Bonus Power Attack -1 to hit +3 to damage (-3 to Hit + 9 Damage 10th lvl)
2nd Combat Expertise
3rd Improved Called Shot
4th Weapon Specialization (+2 Damage)
5th
6th Vital Strike (one attack doubles dice pool)
7th Greater Called Shot
8th Improved Critical (doubles threat range)
9th
10th

+10 BAB +6 STR +2 Weapon Training +1 Weapon Focus = +19 to hit with a generic greatsword. -3 for Power attack gives you a base +16 (realistically you should have a pretty sweet sword by this point or your DM is a dick and you haven't been spending your money right, so let's assume it's a +2) Puts you at a +18 to hit.

A vital strike'd called shot attack would look like this +16 to hit (chest, arm or leg) or +13 to hit (head vitals or hand) 4d6 + 24 Crits X2 17-20 So, if you MADE a critical hit (1 in 5 chance) You're looking at 2d6 (X2) + 2d6 (vital strike doesn't double on a crit) + 48... and all the REALLY horrendous Called shot affects happen if you break 40 points of damage in a single hit. Soooo.... yeah. You can simply smash your opponents body to RUBBLE one blow after another. Sure it's a bit slower, but it's hideous.

I have an all veteran group that I've run through a couple of games, and I am BRUTAL. I've come close to killing the entire party when they made stupid decisions. Being veterans they don't appreciate the concept of "Run-Away" even when it's made clear that they're fighting a rival group of equal power who has studied them to prepare.

The point came across pretty clear when the Elf Druid jumped down to engage her opponents in combat and the other sides Dwarven Ranger stood up, yelled "ELF!" and let loose a barrage of arrows. Enchanted bow, full attack, multi-shot, maxed Favored enemy.... the Druid basically did a wonderful impression of Boromir. The party got their s@*& together quick at that moment. Managed to drive the rival group off but not without being reduced to almost half hit points for all of them.

Crazy bastards STILL decided to continue to hunt down the vampire-assassin they had been trailing when the ambush went off.

Well, you'd need to swap Brutality for Discovery, that'd keep your advancing in that area long the same power stream.

I'd swap Burly for Resolves: Half his level to all Wisdom checks do to his calm mind and strong sense of self. This includes Will saves.

I'd swap Nimble for Attractive: While not as strong minded as his Alter-Ego the Mind Chymist develops an ethereal beauty in his physical form that gives him half his Chymist levels as a bonus to all Charisma checks.

Obviously swap the Fort and Will saves.

Given that the bombs are based on Intelligence you could switch so that while the Mind Chymist gets MORE bombs per day (as an alchemist of his combined level) he doesn't gain the additional bomb damage. (Reversing the Master Chymist's pattern)

I'd swap the Draconic form with "Angelic/Demonic Form" in which the Alternate Form gains wings and a fly speed equal to 3X his land speed.

Switch Scent with Swift +10 land speed.

Maybe swap Feral with Resistant = Gains SR = Mind Chymist levels

Then swap Furious with Improved Resistant = Gains SR = Mind Chymist levels + 6 (Yes, I realize this caps it at SR 16, but you're not replacing a HUGE power)

I'd actually replace the Growth Mutation with Healthy = Gains Fast Healing 1 (doesn't seem like a lot but it's replacing a permanent 1st level spell)

You could replace Night vision and Evasion, but I don't really think you need too, same with Disguise and Dual-Mind, they both still work pretty well.

If you absolutely WANTED too.. Maybe swap Night Vision with Arcane Vision = Detect Magic for a number of rounds a day equal to his Intelligence score.

Anyway, those are just my 2 cents.

Extra Evolution

Your eidolon has more evolutions.

Prerequisite: Eidolon class feature.

Benefit: Your eidolon's evolution pool increases by 1.

Special: You can gain Extra Evolution multiple times, but only once for every five summoner levels you possess.

----------------------------------------------------------------

every 5 summoner levels with a FEAT leaves us at the disjointed 1,10,15,20-->realisticaly in practice you get the ugly 1, 11, 15
maxing at 3 times

Just...out of curiosity. If you're going to be super strict on the wording, you realize the way it's worded you could take it at 13, 15, 17 (because that's taking "once" PER every FIVE summon levels. You have 10 summoner levels by 13th, so you can take it twice, which puts you at 15th, so you can take it AGAIN at 17th...

Also, you'd actually be taking the feat at 5th, 11th, 15th the way you're describing it.

Nice #2 Preview and last since...

I am happy just got my notice that this book has shipped.

Me too, serious joy joy

Well, as a general common sense guide to allowing nonstandard races and templates to be used, consider that an NPC is CR -3 and a PC is CR -2

So if you look at a Drow Noble or a Snirfneblin who are CR = Level then they're (rule of thumb) 2 levels higher than a normal player race.

I'd guess that whatever template you consider adding you look at what it adds to the CR and consider that at LEAST the level adjustment, then maybe add a +1 level adjustment for every super-power that goes above and beyond the simple template abilities.

That's because Charisma is usually considered a throwaway stat.

I don't agree with that assessment. While I'm no power-gamer, unless it's compensated by a significant advantage, -4 to any stat in the name of balance seems a bit excessive.

Just for the record: a significant advantage, to me, would be something like flight. I can see a race taking a significant hit to, say, Strength or Con for flight, even if their maneuverability was rotten. And it'd kind of make sense that a flying race would be somewhat frail.

Given that most of the flying creatures in OUR world have weaker bones (thus less dense) to allow them to be light enough to fly, it does make sense that they'd suffer a con penalty. I agree with you there.

I was starting to think I had killed this thread.

You notice people don't react with the same shock at races that suffer a -4 to mental stats. I mean, if they suffered that to charisma (like the Duergar or Svirfneblin) people don't think it's nearly so bad.

Just to point out... but if people are all leaning towards the Eidolon having free will (and it's not an illogical conclusion. The Rival's Guide lists an Eidolon with its own CR rating and gives it a backstory as if it were another member of the NPC party) then the DM should have some say in determining the Eidolon's personality and decision making. While they point out that the Eidolon always has the same alignment as the Summoner, so it's a lot like a Cohort from the Leadership feat. Given that it's as dumb as a box of rocks and has a crud charisma to boot, the DM could have a lot of fun regularly expressing the Eidolon's free will.

One thing that bothers me in a game I play in regularly is that there's a summoner (who is NOT a good gamer, which just makes it worse) who made a canine Eidolon, he calls it "Puppy" and just treats the thing as a glorified super-dog-mount. It does have an Intelligence of 7...I mean, that's smart enough to theoretically be a dumb commoner.

Book of Erotic Fantasy? Encyclopaedia Arcane - Nymphology was way better!

DOH....this is what happens when you reply before reaching the end of the thread...

Tessius wrote:

Set wrote:

A spell to go in the book with Bigby's Groping Paw and Bigby's Fondling Fingers.

What that spell in an early OotS strip? Evard's Forceful Intrusion?

/queue horrible recollections of The Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Yes, this is an actual (thought unofficial) D&D splat book. I now feel dirty for calling that mess a splat book.

Splat.

You think the Book of Erotic Fantasy was bad... try the Encyclopedia Arcane - Nymphology

I agree with this. If the eidolon has no free will then it should not be able to make tactical decisions on its own, and if I can knock the summoner out, such as through a sleep spell then I don't want the eidolon to suddenly start making decisions.
The idea that something can have free will, but not be able to resist commands just makes no sense to me.

If you knock the Eidolon out through a sleep spell it's automatically banished back to wherever it was summoned from. It can ONLY exist in this plane if the Summoner is awake and conscious.

A summoner begins play with the ability to summon to his side a powerful outsider called an eidolon. The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature. An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it and can speak all of his languages. Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score. In addition, due to its tie to its summoner, an eidolon can touch and attack creatures warded by protection from evil and similar effects that prevent contact with summoned creatures.

This is an interesting point that hasn't really been touched upon in the discussions of Summoner's that I've seen. You're not ACTUALLY summoning the Outsider you made contact with, you're summoning an Aspect of it.

Personally I think that point needs a lot of clarification because depending on what the designers mean by "aspect" of an Outsider it could affect a lot of things. Because it sounds like the summoner is using his magic to create a magical ECHO of the outsider he's bound too. Which implies why the Eidolon has so many exceptions to the normal summon rules. Because the Eidolon that the summoner utilizes isn't ACTUALLY an outsider, its a magical construct mimicking the outsider.

My friends joked about the Summoner summoning up "imaginary friends" and if the Eidolon is just an "Aspect" of an outsider that the Summoner can warp and reshape at will then that argues it is a lot like an imaginary friend.

If that's the case then I'd say dominate the Summoner and you dominate the Eidolon, after all, you can simply command the summoner to go to sleep and the Eidolon is automatically dismissed anyway.

idwraith wrote:

The Wings Discovery on the other hand, should still function during your polymorphed duration. Because like the Sorcerer claws its something you can choose to manifest.

Actually, it would see that you lose the wings too, as per the polymorph rules. Note that it is an Extraordinary Ability (Ex)that are grown by the Alchemist, like the Vestigial limbs.

Alchemist Wings Discovery wrote:

Wings (Ex): The alchemist gains batlike, birdlike, or insectlike functional wings, allowing him to fly as the fly spell for a number of minutes per day equal to his caster level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments. An alchemist can select this discovery multiple times; each time he does so, he adds his caster level to the number of minutes per day that he can fly with the wings. This flight is an extraordinary ability. An alchemist must be at least 6th level before selecting this discovery.

prd wrote:

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function.

I can bold too. You're selectively picking which descriptors to emphasize. You can make a strong argument that Alchemical Discoveries are class features that "allow you to add features" especially considering the description of the Polymorph spell were written BEFORE the Alchemist was written as a class. If its not in the errata anywhere then that line about the GM being the final arbiter seems to be the most important.

The Wings Discovery on the other hand, should still function during your polymorphed duration. Because like the Sorcerer claws its something you can choose to manifest.

Have you considered just playing Exalted where being God-Like is taken as a given, thus saving yourself the time of rewriting a system to make it do things it wasn't meant to do?

But you should be able to do all that stuff yourself just by sitting down with your DM. I mean, you already know what level the bonuses should be. The +2 CL for an elf is the equivalent of a feat (Spell Penetration) so to replace it your DM picks a specific bonus equal to a fitting feat. +2 to certain skills...your DM replaces those skills with more appropriate skills.

I mean, this stuff is just common sense replacement. Why do we actually need a book dedicated to doing it?

I'd much rather see a collection of new races and a guide to building your own unique race with some kind of system in place to ensure those races are balanced with other player races.

I had a german shepard who did the three moves exactly the way you said. But remember it's a DC 10 to track a fresh scent trail. Most creatures with scent are also good at Survival, so they can track while moving. They CAN track a moving creature, it just takes time. Whether they can catch up the distance depends on the relative speed of the two creatures.

Makes sense to me.

Faiths of Purity actually gives a Code of Conduct for each Paladin depending on which of the 7 greater gods of good they worship. There are significant differences.

For instance it's expected that a Paladin of Torag might straight up LIE to your face to protect "dwarven cultural interests" and that once he smites the evil he "scatters their family"

I played a dwarven Paladin who walked into a town of Teiflings, Detected Evil, confirmed they were all evil (wasn't a stretch it was an area with an opening to Hell nearby) and he used Alignment Channel to wipe out 3/4 of the town. The other Paladin in the party gathered up the surviving children to ship to a temple to be raised but didn't blink at my Paladin finishing off all the adults.

If I hadn't been a worshiper of Torag (and more specifically Angorrad Torag's aggressive son, the Dwarven God of Tactics and Battle) I wouldn't have been shocked at all to need to atone. But the dwarven interpretation is ALL threats to the race must be extinguished and their culture needs to BURN so no future threats can arise from the ashes.

Iomedae doesn't roll like that. Saranerae is in between. Erastil would probably be ok with it. Shelyn, Desna and Cayden would have dropped me on the spot.

Scent
This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.

The creature detects another creature's presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If the creature moves within 5 feet (1 square) of the scent's source, the creature can pinpoint the area that the source occupies, even if it cannot be seen.

A creature with the Survival skill and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Survival check to find or follow a track. A creature with the scent ability can attempt to follow tracks using Survival untrained. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry's odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Survival skill in regards to tracking. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/glossary.html#scent

I never said a word against Paladins killing goblins....

I was still addressing the original thread which was about a Paladin of Iomedae FAILING a sense motive check to detect if a guy was up to mischief and then hacking the dude to death because he walked up to him and tried to touch him.

I do think that the specific code of Iomedaean paladins is the most important point. These guys aren't running around hugging fluffy bunnies -- that's Shelyn's paladins. They don't really care that much about redeeming lost souls and showing sinners a better path -- that's more of a Sarenrae thing. Iomedae is a warrior goddess who focuses on destroying malignant people and things that threaten good people; her paladins are warriors first and foremost, and if fluffy bunnies happen to get hugged or lost souls happen to get redeemed along the way, so much the better, but that's not what they're in it for.

WRT the OP, threatening and slapping peasants who don't post a threat to anyone may be lawful behavior, depending on the culture (feudal Japan is a good example), but it sure isn't good behavior.

OTOH, goblins are, by nature, pyromaniacal sociopaths. They don't choose to become that -- that's what they ARE. It's an intrinsic part of their being, same as big heads and tiny brains. A paladin of Iomedae would, I think, look at the destruction of the band of goblins as removing both a proximal and long-term threat to a good and lawful community. After that, he'd go huntin' whoever was enough of a jackass to send the torch-wielding lunatics after innocents in the first place and, when he found that person, he would kill him unless he was pretty sure he'd never do anything like that again...in which case he'd turn him over to the local higher authority for execution.

It's a harsh world, man.

Actually, as I posted the excerpt about Iomedae's followers above, it specifically says she wishes her followers to temper their actions with love and respect...and that they prefer to use the "word" before the "sword"

The spot where it reads Darkvision 60' is a mistake. That should read "Scent"

True, but if your Paladin interprets a beggar walking up to him as a "challenge" then I'd worry he's developing severe paranoia and hide my children around him.

Faith
Paladin Codes: pg 26
Iomedae
"The paladins of Iomedae are just and strong. Their mission is to right wrongs and eliminate evil at its root. They are crusaders and live for the joy of righteous battle. They serve as examples to others, and their code demands they protect the weak and innocent by eliminating sources of oppression, rather than the symptoms. They may back down or withdraw from a fight if they are overmatched, but if their lives will buy time for others to escape, they must give them. Their tenets include:

* I will learn the weight of my sword. Without my heart to guide it, it is worthless--my strength is not in my sword, but in my heart. If I lose my sword, I have lost of a tool. If I betray my heart, I have died.

* I will have faith in the Inheritor. I will channel her strength through my body. I will shine in her legion, and I will not tarnish her glory through base actions.

* I am the first into battle, and the last to leave it.

* I will not be taken prisoner by my free will. I will not surrender those under my command.

* I will never abandon a companion, though I will honor sacrifice freely given.

* I will guard the honor of my fellows, both in thought and deed, and I will have faith in them.

* When in doubt, I may force my enemies to surrender, but I am responsible for their lives.

* I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest.

* I will suffer death before dishonor.

* I will be temperate in my actions and moderate in my behavior. I will strive to emulate Iomedae's perfection.

The bold is mine. I just thought those were the two points of the Code of Iomadae's Paladins that were the most relevant to the original point. Assuming the OP is still following the thread.

If you're tired of debating it... please stop.

This is an OPINION thread. It can't be won. No amount of facts or argument is going to score a victory in this thread.

Yes, I posted facts about the origin of public jury trials. Yes, I used modern police rules as an example.

But in doing so I wasn't attempting to "win" the argument and I am unwilling to belabor the point as though my life depended on it.

Nor am I will to flood the thread with responses to each individual person who responded to my posts. One after another as if I can drown the voices through shear volume.

At this point you're following classic trolling strategies to "win" an unwinnable online argument. The only thing you haven't done yet is to rage quit and say "this isn't important to me, I was just bored" and then come back in a few days and start over once the heat has died down.

Now, the thread is specifically about Iomadea and I happen to have Faiths of Purity right next to me.

Under Adventurers it states:

"You become a crusader, traveling the world to find uprisings of evil so that you can tamp them back down. You are willing and able to serve and to lead; you have a forthright attitude and have no patience for lying, fraud or deceit. You believe in discipline for yourself and others, tempered with love and respect.
Although your goddess is a warrior and your church is known for its efforts in battle, you still prefer the word over the sword. You would rather solve differences without bloodshed, but even when negotiating you are firm and principled. And, of course, as an adventurer, you recognize that situations exist where the sword is the only answer."

Under Goals:

"You do not charge into battle against unbeatable odds---your faith does not require stupidity---but you do all in your power to protect the innocent and show them how to stand up for themselves."

Taboos might be the most relevant paragraph:

"If you see an opportunity to right a wrong and fail to take it, you have sinned against Iomadea and must perform a penance that fixes the original situation. If that's not possible, you must find three others like it and make those right instead. You must stand for justice, and the only exception is if you are playing a longer game that will have far greater benefits when it comes to fruition. Should you fail in this, you may lose traits and class abilities related to your faith until you complete your penance."

Going by the Faiths of Purity I wouldn't necessarily say that your Paladin falls immediately. Instead I'd set up a test. I'd give him 3 more instances where he has to make split decisions on whether someone is up to harm or not (in which is Detect Evil can't help him) and if he reacts violently to ALL of them, then I'd say he has to atone THEN.

Faiths of Purity is a really useful book for questions of religious ethics in the Pathfinder system. It doesn't go into exhausting detail, but it does expand the generalities to make things a touch clearer.

Azure_Zero wrote:

Then what would you use to cover the Sheikers and ***-Blasters (refer Tremors 2 and 3)

I believe I suggested ethereal marauders as shriekers. Might have to alter their exact abilities, though.

@ idwraith: Corgi-people?

Sure. Not necessarily Corgi, but yeah, little clumsy dog-men.

My friends are VERY unhappy with me because of the rather large dex penalty. They dislike the fact that I point out that not everything small IS graceful. I mean, have you ever seen a bulldog or a badger? Clumsy as all get out.

Also, these:

Karnid Characters
-4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution +2 Wisdom: Karnid are clumsy but naturally sturdy and very alert to their surroundings.
Small: Karnid are Small and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their CMB and CMD, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
Slow: Karnid move at a speed of 20’
Climb: Karnid can climb at a speed of 20’
Bite: Karnid have a natural bite attack that does 1d3 points of damage.
Cunning: Karnid gain a +2 racial bonus on Survival, Perception, and Stealth
Weakness: Karnid take a -2 penalties to all saves dealing with Sonic affects due to their keen ears.
Scent: Karnid have the scent special ability.
Karnid begin play speaking Common, Karnid with a high Intelligence can also take the following bonus languages: Dwarven, Gnome, and Undercommon.

Karnids are small beings that live on the island of Aragos. They are dog-like bipeds with large noses and big ears. They tend to range in color from a pale cream to a dark gold with irregular patterns of darker browns and blacks traveling through their fur. Karnids have tails but they are very short and puffed. Their long fingers and toes make them strong climbers, as do their thin claws, which are too small to use as weapons. Karnids are quite clumsy and prone to excitement but for all that are crafty woodsman and hunters. Their canine jaws give them a surprisingly painful bite though the more civilized among them consider it barbaric to bite another sentient creature. Karnid society has no native language as far as outsiders can determine.

Karnid males stand 2'8 + 2d6 and weight 20 + (2d6 X 3)
Karnid females stand 2'6 + 2d6 and weight 15 + (2d6 X 3)

Karnids reach maturity at age 20, middle age at 70, old age at 120 and venerable at 170 and die within 3d10 of reaching that age.

Karnids are a tribal society that lives in steep terrain and hidden valleys. They tend to attack from ambushes using reach weapons to make up for their small stature. Few Karnids are proficient in ranged weapons though the use of nets is not unknown among them. Karnids tend to follow a pack mentality where the strongest females dominate the clan hierarchy. Karnids have no racial hit die, their CR is based upon class levels - 2.

Example: Karnid Warrior 1 CR 1/3
LN Small humanoid (Karnid)
Init +2 ; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +4
Defense
AC 12, touch 9, flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, -2 Dex, +1 shield, +1 size)
hp 7 (1d10+2)
Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +1
Special Abilities: Scent
Weaknesses: Sharp Ears: -2 to Sonic effects
Offense
Speed 20 ft.
Climb 20 ft.
Melee shortspear +3 (1d4+1/ X2) or Bite: +3 (1d3+1/X2)
Ranged shortspear +0 (1d4+1/×3)
Statistics
Str 13, Dex 7, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 10
Feats Improved Initiative
Skills Perception +4, Stealth +5, Survival +3; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception +2 Stealth +2 Survival
Languages Common

(I made them up, hope they don't suck.)

idwraith, I'd have to say that "wild west with dragons" seems to be closer to my interpretation of most fantasy settings than trying to apply the laws of today's real world. You have heavily armed individuals wandering about dispensing justice that very quickly exceed the power of the local authorities. Hopefully this is used for good - PCs can make great heroes.

I grant that, and I don't disagree with it.

On the other hand the difference between a Chaotic Good character and a Lawful Good character should be that a Chaotic Good character follows his own moral code for the most part while the Lawful Good character obeys a Top down hierarchy of ethics predetermined by whatever power source he considers "the authority on Goodness"

This usually translates to a respect for the laws and codes of the towns that he happens to be passing through because the Good half of the Lawful Good means he believes in more than just a "Might Makes Right" attitude. He instead believes in Order and Discipline as a means to promote the greater good around him.

Killing a random bum running towards him doesn't seem to promote that ideal of law and order.

Gorbacz wrote:

idwraith wrote:

Graboids?

Death Worm from Bestiary 2?

Then what would you use to cover the Sheikers and ***-Blasters (refer Tremors 2 and 3)

You get me. I mean, it would actually be easy as all get out to make. It just amused me, but that's probably because I bought the 4 pack and watched them last week.

idwraith wrote:

HappyDaze wrote:

Did I just see Galt referred to as an example of a a civilized land used to lend strength to the argument that legal systems in Golarion are healthy?

No, you saw Galt used as a temporal reference. Galt is based on the French Revolution, which is 18th century.

Thank you idwraith, your post was both well researched, enlightening, and educational. Actually doing your research is a pain (wikipedia dose make it quite a bit easier these days, links to your research would be appreciated next time, though I found it easily with google), but it is very refreshing to see someone that cares enough to make sure they know what they are talking about.

HappyDaze wrote:

I'd like to propose that killing someone isn't necessarily a big deal.

Do you even know what we are talking about? We are talking about the actions of a Paladin of Iomedae. You are asking me to believe that Iomedae is OK with her paladins just killing everyone and asking questions later, because magic can fix it. I am looking at the raise dead spell description right now, it uses words like ordeal, negative levels, constitution drain, and that is only if the poor bastards soul is strong enough to want to return. Some people just go to the light, or dark, or whatever.

I am tired of debating you. You are rude, pick nits, haven't presented a single shred of evidence supporting your opinion. Instead we get gems like this one.

HappyDaze wrote:

Agreed. Police use threats of force quite commonly, but so long as it's for the purposes of keeping the peace, it's OK. In a setting where you have the paladin as an enforcer of divine justice, threats that keep the peace for the benefit of law and goodness can themselves be acts of law and goodness.

It was bull when Nixon said it, it's still bull today. Being a paladin doesn't make you good. Being (super) good makes you a paladin. When you have worked out that confusion of ideas, maybe you will understand what is being...

Thank you for grasping the point I was trying to make. I was attempting to point that people make the connection that Fantasy World = Lawless or basically Wild Wild West with Dragons. The point I was trying to make is that their have been laws and the concept of "trials" to establish guilt/innocence pretty much as long as there have been people living together.

I've already pointed out that pg 23 of the APG under Paladin Favored Class specifically states that you CAN'T get 100 Energy resistance.

All the people reading page 9 would do well to go on to read the actual EXPANDED sentences on Favored Class abilities because they're pretty clearly written out in the actual lines talking about them, as opposed to the generic lines describing them as a preface.

Hello.
Simple question, can a character gain new feats as they increase in level? I can't find the answer in the core book. Is it tied to race, class, or other?

No.

As listed on the first page of the Class section, you only gain a feat at every odd level. The exception to this is classes that give you bonus feats and those are spelled out in detail on the class description.

Yeah, the Master Chymist also gets Brutality, so by 10th level his Mutated Form automatically deals an extra +6 to all unarmed and simple weapon attacks.

So, the build I posted earlier which has a +14 strength modifier would be doing a minimum +20 points of damage per blow. Add to that a power attack which could be maxed at -4 to hit and +8 to damage your base bare knuckle damage could be a +28 and that's assuming you don't have an Amulet of Mighty Fists +5 (which the Hulk would have, personally I'd get it as a magical tattoo only usable in his Mutated form) which would pop the minimum damage up to a +33 ....per hit.

If you deviate AWAY from the classic Hulk and go with with Feral Mutation and the Advanced Mutation Furious (along with the Growth Mutation) then you'd be doing 2d6 + 33 with each "claw" attack...and frankly because you're the DM you can say that those claws are actually just the powerful knuckles of the mighty Hulk's fist. Granted, you'd still have a 3d6 + 33 bite (all three primary attacks btw)

and...if you wanted to go the Improved Weapon route... well... wielded two handed the Power Attack goes up 50% so it's bonus would go to a +12 so... yeah. Hulk Smash boys and girls.

The easier way to do it would be to set up 'sub races' as templates that get applied to ANY race. So, something like this :

Barbaric : This branch of the race has, for the last several thousand years, lived as a barbaric tribe in the wilds. This has led to a natural selection for those who are hardy over those who over think or are mechanically inclined. This template makes the following modifications :
Stats : INT -2, CON +2
Skills : If the base race get's bonuses to specific skills, change those bonuses to Knowledge (Nature) and Survival.

Civilized : This branch of the race has, for the last several thousand years, lived in large cities and is very civilized. This has led to a natural selection for those who are sharp witted, but also led to a general reduction in overall health due to lack of physical activity. This template makes the following modifications :
Stats : INT +2, CON -2
Skills : If the base race get's bonuses to specific skills, change those bonuses to Knowledge (Local) and Diplomacy.

Definitely a better way to go about it than to provide as many subraces for every race as we an imagine.

The other thing though, is Intelligence is connected to book learning yes, but it's also connecting to problem solving and your ability to learn basic life skills (hence its connection to skill points) so while your Wood Elf Tribesman might be as uneducated as a hut dwelling mud thumping human, he might still be better at LEARNING because his brain is developed differently. Sure, he's still uneducated. You want to reflect that, take away the +2 Spellcraft and insert +2 Survival in its place. BAM Wood Elf. Take away the +2 CL for spell penetration and put in a +2 Stealth ....voila. Wood Elf.

Did I just see Galt referred to as an example of a a civilized land used to lend strength to the argument that legal systems in Golarion are healthy?

No, you saw Galt used as a temporal reference. Galt is based on the French Revolution, which is 18th century.

Ok, this Myth that the court system and the Trial is a modern invention has go to stop.

Ancient Greece had Jury trials.

"There existed in Ancient Athens a mechanism through which it was assured that no one could select jurors, called dikastaí, for their own trial. For normal cases, the courts were made up of dikastai of 501 citizens.[1] For capital cases, those which involved death, the loss of liberty, exile, the loss of civil rights, or the seizure of property, the trial was before a jury of 1,001 to 1,501 dikastai. In such large juries the unanimity rule would be unrealistic and verdicts were reached by majority. Juries were appointed by lot. Jurists cast a ceramic disk with an axle in its middle: the axle was either hollow or solid. Thus the way they voted was kept secret because the jurists would hold their disk by the axle by thumb and forefinger, thus hiding whether its axle was hollow or solid. Since Periclean times, jurists were compensated for their sitting in court, with the amount of one day's wages.
The institution of trial by jury was ritually depicted by Aeschylus in the Eumenides, the third and final play of his Oresteia trilogy. In this play the innovation is brought about by the goddess Athena, who summons twelve citizens to sit as jury. The god Apollo takes part in the trial as the advocate for the defendant Orestes, and the Furies as prosecutors for the slain Clytaemnestra. In the event the jury is split six to six, and Athena dicates that in such a case the verdict should henceforth be for acquittal."

Note, that is from BEFORE CONQUERED BY ROME Era Greece, which means Pre AD. So the Jury Trial is in recorded history from over 2,000 years ago.

The concept of "Common Law" in which Judges get to make interpretations upon the Legal Code which the US Court system is based off us can be tracked back to the 12th century and earlier.

"In the late 800s, Alfred the Great assembled the Doom book (not to be confused with the more-famous Domesday Book from 200 years later), which collected the existing laws of Kent, Wessex, and Mercia, and attempted to blend in the Mosaic code, Christian principles, and old Germanic customs.[32]
Before the Norman conquest in 1066, justice was administered primarily by what is today known as the county courts (the modern "counties" were referred to as "Shires" in pre-Norman times), presided by the diocesan bishop and the sheriff, exercising both ecclesiastical and civil jurisdiction.[33] Trial by jury began in these courts.[33][citation needed]
In 1154, Henry II became the first Plantagenet king. Among many achievements, Henry institutionalized common law by creating a unified system of law "common" to the country through incorporating and elevating local custom to the national, ending local control and peculiarities, eliminating arbitrary remedies and reinstating a jury system – citizens sworn on oath to investigate reliable criminal accusations and civil claims. The jury reached its verdict through evaluating common local knowledge, not necessarily through the presentation of evidence, a distinguishing factor from today's civil and criminal court systems."

So, can we abandon this Mythology that Pre-Industrial Revolution settings are lawless places that have never heard of the Rule of Law or civilized court systems? Because There were PLENTY of court systems in place throughout the developing history of human society. Pretty much as soon as we started developing into something bigger than generic hunter-gatherer societies we started trying to figure out ways to determine if someone is innocent or guilty. The Trial by Jury concept is over 2,000 years old.

Not to mention when you actually examine the Golarion World in which Iomedae is set you'll see that there are NUMEROUS "civilized" countries. Galt is based on the French Revolution for instance. So this carte blanche' declaration that there's no such thing as the rule of legal systems because it's "Dark Ages" is BS.

Graboids?

Rule of Cool

If you want to have an NPC that has kept herself alive throughout the ages through Reincarnation...F'n do it. That definitely falls under the Rule of Cool.

It's not as if your party members are trying to figure this out for themselves so they can do it right?

The Kobolds attacked our camp, stole our supplies then ran away. There was a vital item in those packs that we needed to fulfill the quest. We were also only like level 4 so it was still decent encounter.

Well, truthfully we never got to the point of arguing about what could be done with the children before they were dead. The Paladin was using his Detect Evil as a sort of scanner to hunt down and ensure that EVERY Kobold in the warren was truly dead. This led him to the hatchery which was hidden from the rest of us.. and we only knew about what he did when he walked out with the heads as proof that he had ended their menace.

To truly get the Hulk out of an Alchemist I'd recommend at least a lvl 17 Alchemist/Master Chymist.

At that point you could have the Grand Mutagen and Growth Mutation through use of the Feat Extra Discovery

At that point when you "Hulk out" you'd gain +10 STR +6 Con +2 Dex (Enlarge person bonus factored in) and double in height and weight. You'd suffer a -2 to all your mental stats. If you combine that with the above suggestions of the Manuals and the Belt then you're scores could EASILY be in the 30's for Strength and Con.

25 Point buy in... I'd go with a distribution of scores like this

STR 17
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 9
Cha 7

Starting race is Human I would imagine? Then to reflect the Bruce Banner starting persona I'd drop the +2 into Int raising that to a 17. 4th level point I'd put into Int to raise that to an 18. 8th I'd put into Str raising that to an 18 12 I might put into Con raising that to a 17, then raise Con again at 16th for an 18.

So Banner would have natural stats of

STR 18
DEX 10
CON 18
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7

Add the two manuals and you've got which with the belt goes to

STR 23 (29)
Dex 10 (16)
CON 23 (29)
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7

and then when he Hulks out his stats go to

STR 39
Dex 18
Con 39
Int 16
Wis 7
Cha 5

Beware the Head of Vecna.... you're obviously not doing it right, let ME cut your head off!

I was playing a Paladin in one game and we were ambushed by a collection of Harpies. The Wizard managed to stun one and it glided towards my character as it was "falling" my Paladin stepped aside and allowed it to land WITHOUT taking his attack of opportunity.

The Harpy landed and climbed to its feet and then attacked the Paladin (who was closest)

At that point the Harpy was smashed into oblivion.

When the Wizard asked my Paladin WHY he let the thing land he replied that there was no Honor in killing the unconscious. Because in his mind if the Harpy was not ABLE to defend itself it was dishonorable to kill it. Even though it was clearly evil and in the process of attacking him.

At the same time I've gamed with a Paladin who, when we invaded a Kobold warren found a hatchery. He proceeded to slit the throats of every baby Kobold in the room, despite their being completely helpless. (This warren was in the middle of the wilds, NOT near enough to threaten a settlement) and when my character, a Fighter/Cleric called him on it as a heinous act he defended himself with the argument that they were "racially evil" and thus had no right to live in a world with good creatures. My Cleric (also Lawful Good) argued that they were helpless children and could have been RAISED to be good people. It was the Nature vs Nurture argument.

The issue never got resolved because the Paladins player started screaming that we were all attacking him and rage/quit the game.

There is a distinction between Natural Lycanthrop and Cursed in the Bestiary, I'd suggest reading up on the sections there and then talking to your DM, it's definitely a judgement call.

I've got a 7th lvl Alchemist/Vivisectionist in Serpent's Skull (SK) right now and am enjoying it a lot. I've focussed on melee while also running support. I'm running with 3 attacks at 1d8+6+4d6 sneak attack a round with an AC i can easilly get to 26 quickly. It would be higher but SK is fairly low-loot.

I'm having a blast and planning on continueing into the Master Chymist PrC.

I also know the Barb/Rogue in our party is enjoying my enlarge and shield infusion a lot! A raging, sneak attacking barb with a 15 foot reach is nothing to sneeze at.

Some weak points I've noticed in this build are a low will save and hp that is a little low for a front-liner. I keep the healing oracle rather busy.

If you do plan on going melee I recommend using Ultimate Magic a lot and I'm betting Ultimate Combat will have even more options.

I'm playing a Master Chymist now myself. He's a 15th level character, 7 levels of Alchemist/8 levels of Master Chymist and one thing I've learned...

WAIT FOR TENTH LEVEL before going into Master Chymist. You have to have a combined 16th level to access the most useful Advanced Mutations (you only get 5, one at every even level) and so you really want to be able to go 16, 18, 20 to get the best if your goal is to make a Melee focused Chymist.

AntiMagic Field... 6 lvl spell. 10' radius centered on the caster. lasts 10 minutes a level

The rules on creating a Singe Use, Use activated object is Spell Level X Caster Level X 50gps so Minimum CL is 11th. 6 X 11 X 50 = 3,300gp. In other words if your enemy has access to a Wizard of middling strength you can have

Crystals of AntiMagic a simple magical item that, when thrown to the ground and broken create a 10' radius field of no magic (centered on the bearer) which lasts for 110 minutes.

All summoned creatures simply wink out if they enter the field. So, you give a buttload of Goblins these things and they swarm over the Summoner and eat him.

Ummmm, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.

Spectral Hand so you don't actually have to TOUCH him yourself...Then go to town with Touch spells.

But really, your big problem, is that all the spells that would allow for REALLY damaging him... Bestow Curse, Feeblemind, Touch of Idiocy which you could totally gimp his charisma with, are all Compulsions or Curses.. which if he's as high level as you say he'll either be immune too or can cure with one Lay on Hands if he has the Mercy Cursed.

Same reason you can't use Geas to cause him to do something he'd have to atone for or take huge penalties. He's immune to Compulsions.

Paladins are actually one of the hardest character types to fight. With a high charisma ALL of their saves get a huge bonus. If you're 15th level and he's several levels higher than you then he's got a minimum of +6 to his weakest save (Reflex) and +11 to his Fort and Will, then he gets his normal ability scores, PLUS his charisma added to them. So yeah, even if his charisma is just a +4 he's got a minimum 15/10/15 and that's assuming he has 10 Con, 10 Dex, 10 Wis, which is pretty doubtful.

On top of that he's Immune too:

Fear
Diseases (Including Magical Ones)
Compulsions
and has DR 5/Evil

Even the book example shows how useful his Lay of Hands is: 12th-level paladin's lay on hands ability heals 6d6 points of damage and might also cure fatigued and exhausted conditions as well as removing diseases and neutralizing poisons. Once a condition or spell effect is chosen, it can't be changed. If this Paladin IS around level 18 then he can cast Lay on Hands a minimum of 9 times a day (plus his charisma) curing 9d6 points of damage and curing 6 Mercy types: Sickened, Staggered, Cursed, Blinded, Deafened, Paralyzed (all options that will ALL be cured every time he uses Lay on Hands) AND if he's curing himself its a SWIFT action. Which means he can Swift cure most crippling effects, THEN move, THEN attack. At least 9 times... which makes Power Word Blind questionably effective.

Add to that a 19th level Paladin has 4 attacks, can smite evil 7/day and has access to 4th level Paladin spells which gives him access to spells like Restoration which will completely negate negative levels.

Frankly, you've got your work cut out for you. The above suggestions about looking into spells that have no saves is a good one. But really, if its just you vs this Paladin I suggest DON'T.

A lot will depend on the make up of your party. Something to consider is Scrying to see if you can learn his habits and weaknesses. Then make plans based on what you learn. But Paladin's are pretty much the ultimate solo spec.