dragonslie123's page

So...you're good then?

Yes that chart is what it does based on the heal'ed level, se are playing a converted temple of elemental evil,

I was playing a wizard who went rogue (is leaving the party) we are about half way through. With my new char being a rogue, no teleport as there are no more wizards in the group,

Skill unlock heal seems to good to pass up.

L* | HP | GP/HP | Ability Damage Healed**
05 | 10 | 2.00 | 2
06 | 12 | 1.67 | 2
07 | 14 | 1.43 | 2
08 | 16 | 1.25 | 2
09 | 18 | 1.11 | 2
10 | 40 | 0.50 | 4
11 | 44 | 0.45 | 4
12 | 48 | 0.42 | 4
13 | 52 | 0.38 | 4
14 | 56 | 0.36 | 4
15 | 90 | 0.22 | 6
16 | 96 | 0.21 | 6
17 | 102 | 0.20 | 6
18 | 108 | 0.19 | 6
19 | 114 | 0.18 | 6
20 | 240 | 0.08 | 12

found it .. it was buried in the (what mistakes did we make in the book) thread

Unchained says this.

5 Ranks: When you treat deadly wounds, the target recovers
hit points and ability damage as if it had rested for a full day.

10 Ranks: When you treat deadly wounds, the target
recovers hit points as if it had rested for a full day with
long-term care.

15 Ranks: When you treat deadly wounds, the creature
recovers hit point and ability damage as if it had rested for 3 days.

20 Ranks: When you treat deadly wounds, the target
recovers hit point and ability damage as if it had rested for
3 days with long-term care.

So the question is, with a DC 20 check, how much would a character heal at level 5 - 10 - 15 - 20

Natural Healing as detailed on Page 191 does not stack with Long-Term Care. Basically, Long-Term Care just doubles the rate at which Natural Healing occurs (see "twice the normal rate" on Page 98). If you want to benefit from Long-Term Care, you need to have someone else succeed at the DC 15 Heal roll, and also spend 8 hours tending to your wounds, which is why the healing is doubled. If you don't have someone to make that roll for you (for example - they're too busy resting themselves!), but you still rest for 8 hours or more, you default to Natural Healing.

Both Long-Term Care and Natural Healing speed up the recovery of ability damage, but Treat Deadly Wounds does not.

If you are asking about Treat Deadly Wounds as well: This is another kind of healing, and it does stack with either Natural Healing or Long-Term Care. Like Long-Term Care, it requires someone with the Heal skill to succeed at the check, but it only requires 1 hour of work. And yes, if you beat DC 25, you get to heal the patient an extra amount equal to your Wisdom modifier.

The two uses of the Heal skill you seem to be talking about are separate, and require that the healer choose which to use, and spend the time to use them, before making the roll.

you need to read the unchained book to understand that the book allows long term care in one hour.

and the numbers do not make sense.

at level unlock you treat as though a full day rest for deadly wounds.

a day of rest is 1 hp per level.

treat deadly wounds is 1 hp per level, AND if you succeed at the check your wisdom modifier.

explain how the full day rest helps other than ability damage?

then at level 10 unlock you treat as though a full day rest PLUS as though they were under long term care... IE 4 HP per level.

at level 15 however, you treat deadly wounds as though it were 3 full days rested... IE 3 hp per level? ..what happened? of course the ability damage healed goes up, but the HP lowers?

and at level 20 you are treated as though you had 3 days rest under long term care... (of course this is way better than everything else.)

I guess the question is.. why didn't they just give the static numbers..

like 1 hp per level. or 2 hp per level etc etc??

what are the numbers at the unlocks?

Ok so.. if you read the heal section on 191

and the heal skill on 99

and then the skill unlock section for heal.

its like...

is very confusing,

unlock one -

you actually lose out on the wisdom bonus and heal the same amount, you do get to do ability damage though.

unlock 2 -

4 hp per level yes please,

unlock 3

the healing actually turns into 3 hp per level...(what happened? am i missing something...)

can anyone explain if this stacks or over laps with the heal skill?

If you look at the actual healing rules,

this unlock is rather weak and is very confusing,

unlock one -

you actually lose out on the wisdom bonus and heal the same amount, you do get to do ability damage though.

unlock 2 -

4 hp per level yes please,

unlock 3

the healing actually turns into 3 hp per level...(what happened? am i missing something...)

can anyone explain if this stacks or over laps with the heal skill?

So I've played pathfinder since beta, I have had a few accounts and some of my suggestions even made it into the core printing,

I stopped purchasing pathfinder products right around the ultimate books after finding alot of the apg classes were a little much, most notably, the rogue was obsolete.

So I pick up this book,

Skill unlocks? Yes please, open the book, read... Hmm appraise is flavorful, has a use,

Go to the rest..

Meh.. Underwhelming, duplicated with an advanced rogue talent,..

Perception?.. Hey pretty good.. Could be better...

Sense motive...ok at high levels..

The rest... Meh...

Its so under whelming.

Want some good ideas??

Stealth.. Instead of it being underwhelming fast stealth, how about this

5 ranks can hide from darkvision, two blindesense, 3 tremorsense etc etc...

That's actually pretty flavorful, oh even better, .. There's a 3.5 feat that does it that I always felt should be more than one feat.. Look at this.. Stealth is bad ass again.

Perception...

Why not give the ability to act in the surprise round like a diviner at a certain level.....ya know something cool??.. I dint kniw a rogue throwing 10d6 sneak attack .. Vs a wizard whilo just throws fireball bolt or enervate seems pretty right inline..

How about UMD.. What a crappy skill unlock,..seriously does nothing...at all...for any rogue I've seen built since beta...except level 5-8..

The skill unlocks for the most part do very little,

Great idea poor implementation...

As far as "everyone getting them"

Pcs for a feat get exactly one and only one...seems pretty cool, if the skill unlocks were more powerful..(everyone would take it)

Making it rogue only.sure I can buy it.

Everyone gets them all?

The rogue is under powered period...let them have the skills pls.

But more importantly,

Fix the damn skill unlocks, reprint it and ill buy it.

I'm kinda worried though, pathfinder has left some of its core values, and with it more than one beta tester.

Printing new classes that are basically a better version of a prestige class, or strictly better than a core class then putting them in a book is what lost me.

Palladium games had the same problem and they went under.

I appreciate the take to lower the power level, ive had summoned banned in my game without even a playtest, and this book actually fixed everything I said was wrong with it.

But the skill unlocks, the place you guys needed to put the juice?

Ultimately a failure.

Give the skill unlocks a boost make them exclusively rogue, or like one poster said full bab can take the signature feat, casters cant but make this a rogue ability, but more importantly,

MAKE IT REVELANT, heck,

Here's a fix, why not let them cure with heal? Actually heal damage??..
(even if you limited to outside combat?

I'm not saying give them the heal spell...thats dumb...but why not a cure light wounds x per day or something for 5th level. Casting time one min. Or the ability to reverse poison damage outside combat with a check.

Where the heck is the imagination?

Rant done. It took me 2hours to find one of my logins.

Happy gaming all, I hope they take this seriously like they did during beta.

Oh one more thing, if you change the book I hope you offer it for free download to those of us who bought it.

Thanks

Dragonslie aka criminaltruth

ciretose wrote:

Any rule set that allows you to create a Venerable Drow Noble Lich with no level adjustment and a feat pulled from a computer game goes well beyond “Non-Standard” character creation.

It doesn't really matter if it's a little beyond standard or a lot. It looks like everybody is doing things well beyond standard. If that's the case, then it's fair even if it looks silly to you. The game should proceed fairly from that basis.

ciretose wrote:

The DM basically gave him everything he wanted, even if it made absolutely no contextual sense and was directly against the rules. And he his complaining he isn’t powerful enough.

I sympathize with the DM a bit, as it sounds like he’s trying to be a good guy and accommodate everyone, but when the power gaming got out of control he tried to balance the table to keep everyone happy.

And then the cheese builder started whining because his cheese build wasn’t “winning”.

I think we can afford to be a little more fair here. He's not complaining that he isn't winning. He's complaining that he's completely stymied while the other players are doing just better. If Dragonslie123's perceptions are correct and the DM is fudging to stymie him, it doesn't matter if he's doing it because he's trying to balance the game, he's doing it too much and throwing the game out of balance as a result of doing so.

this is perhaps my perception and that of other players as well, not just me.

My char is INEFFECTIVE, to the point that everyone has ASKED "why is the sorc so much better than yours, obviously, your char is not very good." (I can't believe no matter the equipment, that a 38 INT Wizard could be "not very good.")

the ENTIRE GROUP is min max and has LVL adjus. EQUAL to mine. In some instances even a little better. EXAMPLE SORC HAS +6 RACIAL bonus to CHA. I only have a +4.

I couldn't care less if I "won or not." im not looking to "end every encounter." all im asking for is that if the fighters in the group can end an encounter in 3 hits, why can't I end one with one higher level spell?... isn't that fair???

If I happen to guess something has the cold subtype because they are encased in ice, shouldn't I at least be allowed to throw a fireball at it??

Don't forget the first round of combat everyone is considered flat-footed. Take surprise attacks talent and it doesn't matter if you go first or not.

You could literally wait for someone to get near you and full attack RD 1 like the druid sometimes.

Rogues can out damage alot of classes at certain levels. Your sneak attack will continue to increase, their STR will increase nominally.

I think you guys are really over analyzing this.

Lich is NOT a monster race.

it is an NPC template.

wouldn't the prudent thing to be build it like a class with a 2 level adjustment??

So an 11th level cleric lich would be CR 13 or rather, a 13th lvl NPC?

Pathfinder went out of its way to make CR = to level adjustment. Why throw that out the window?

Its like saying "oh drow noble. needs to add X to leadership feat." instead of "oh drow noble is a race."

honestly what do you think is better?

lich cleric 11 or cleric 13? ... 7th level spells are pretty sweet. Ever play a caster and try to go lich? 9 times out of ten u'd rather the spell level, Unless the DM is giving you the template for free. That plus 2 INT really doesn't do much.

So why not jus build a cleric cohort and treat it as two levels higher than it actually is. Doesn't this make the most sense?

As someone who reads fantasy novels,

Why would Piazo not even consider buying the book if it was actually really good?

Ever read the drow Insurrection series headed by R.A. Salvator?

All of those authors were fairly new and that serious was amazing. They all have work now.

I could never understand how some companies only take 'established writers."

personally I wont read ANYTHING by Salvator cause it seems like he is just writing to write, absolute garbage lately, Wies Hickman, absolute gods in fantasy world, I've even given up on.

Its time for new authors, good stories. If his story is actually good, why wouldn't it make money, In fact, having the "pathfinder" name on such a novel could make an author. If he were good.

I never read his "book." but I will say this, by a publishing company refusing to even consider reading material, it sorta is contradictory of what a publishing company is. Isn't it your duty to read pretty much everything??

Its like a demo tape sent to a recording label. They listen to everything.

This thread was to blow off steam, I never even intended for other party members to read it. Heck, the entire point of the thread was to see what other peoples perceptions would be, and if they would play in the game because I've considered leaving times in the past.

Do I like hanging out with you guys? yea sure who doesn't, we've been friends forever. But that doesn't mean I like playing in the game when the party complains about how ineffective my char is, and it appears that my char can't do anything good in combat no matter what role I take?

You and stas say " I don't have all the facts."

great, but, I have the one fact that matters, No one in the group thinks my char is effective in the slightest.

And no one likes playing a Char that is behind the 8 ball compared to everyone else in the group.

Everyone is supposed to be heros in the game, not sidekicks.

The problem I have been having, and have had from the beginning, and complaining about now, are all the same issue.

And if it happened "here or there" I probrobly wouldn't even notice. The fact is it happens every game session.

My char is 'far from god mode." in this game. The only thing he can do is "hide" or make himself not able to be hit. But he can't hit at all. Sorry "wall of force" and 'resilient sphere" centered on yourself stops most things....

OF course, when chain lightning, feeblemind, Dispel magic(useless in the game as nothing is ever buffed except BBEG Drow have constant detect magic.), flesh to stone, enervate, create pit, summon air elemental 7, magic missle..(why magic missle average damage on a fighter is like 70 or so for ONE hit in this game.), mass suggestion, suggestion, finger of death, grasping hand, clinched fist, Black tenticals(never worked once..maybe its the monsters ok sure...), hydraulic push, disintergrate, cone of cold, baleful polymorph, fear, ... and im not talking "random spells vs monsters" im talking

chain lightning vs an ancient red dragon. Save, Feeblemind vs anything in the game as its all outsiders with Sp abilities, save, Disintegrate vs undead, save, black tenticals vs anything humoid no effect, grasping hand clinched fist, ok great. i get a cover bonus but that's about it, they are all interposing hand and that's it.,

mass suggesstion on horned devils, saved... guess they had 10 Wizard levels or 20 fighter levels added on?

create pit,greater vs mithral golems(huge), saved he throws create pit 2nd lvl both fail, I throw greater pit vs the other mithral golem, save, he throws 2nd level version, fail. I summon air elemental whirlwind save (for about 2 rounds.) then finally he failed reflex save vs an air elemental AFTER they both got dealt and failed a grasp of the dead???. note my 4th lvl spell actually hits harder than his grasp of the dead by 1 DC....

finger of death against something with 6 negative levels, saved.

cone of cold vs dragon, saved.

just examples...... I actually stopped even trying to cast spells at monsters....

this has been the whole game.

turn one Sorc goes first. Grasp of the dead, everything fails and is stuck or half the monsters usually, fighters move in kill, i throw a fireball or something save, next round party finishes them off cause they have 5 HP or something.

Turn one sorc goes first does a Fort saved vs melee types Fail, I throw mass suggestion Save.

I go first throw mass suggestion vs bearded devils (6) all 6 save. he throws grasp of the dead, all get trapped....

so then i started doing what his char does. AOE damage spells.

Disintergrate vs undead save,
Fireball save
cone of cold after a dispel magic greater on a huge red dragon, save.

this is honestly the game.

Our group uses different character creation that is surely outside the core rules but that part aside we do follow the rest of the rules and the system holds together quite well. The encounters are also not straight out of the book as the op thinks they are. The rest of the group seems to have a blast except for one. I am not sure why I feel obligated to respond to a group of strangers other than being frustrated that as portrayed it looks like the dm is at fault and that just isn't the case.

I don't care about the rules all that much except the rule of fun and fair. If it isn't fun then I don't play. If it isn't fair then I man up and say something and deal with the repercussions of my actions. I think that most of this comes to what is expected from the game. I want fun times not a simulation of events that is overly complicated.

if the monsters are not stalk out of the book for some of the encounters, how is a lower dc failing, when the higher dc never does?

fun is realative, who likes playing a char outshined by all to the point that people who are realativly new to the game assume the char build sucks donkey balls?

wizard 38 int vs sorc 32 chr or even 34 chr, wiz throws two spells save save sorc throws one save of same type, fail throws haste.

that has been rd one the entire game.

that's counting throwing feeblemind vs DEVILS and DEMONS. that's at a minus 4 save, I even hit something with 3 negative levels with feeblemind with a minus 4 save,

even if i picked spells that dont have saves, etc etc and workd around it, what fun is it when the sorc doesn't have to do the same? If we both had the problem i'd at least be ok with it... great we both suck... but its not like that at all.

the sorc makes my char look like a peice of garbage in combat situations throwing 2nd level spells vs my 4th and 5th lvl spells. his 4th and 5th lvl spells out perform my 7th lvl spells.

I can see that every now and then, but week in and week out for a year?????

comeon dude.

There are ten fighters in the group? How many players are there?

This is the breakdown

1 half dragon fighter (his 2 cr ) 16th lvl
1 "platnium half dragon" paladin (His 2 CR) 16th lvl
1 Rogue (half something??) (2 CR) 16th lvl
1 Half dragon undead bloodline sorc 16th LVL
1 Rogue/shadowdancer (half air elemental) (2CR) Rencently change chars to a fighter/Rogue. 16 Levels.
1 Half Celestial (2 free levels 1 level ADJ) Barbarian 15th lvl
1 Drow Litch lvl 10 wizard/5 Diablerist.

Not about the "Litch" part.

The char was actually played in a previous game with half of the group. the original memebers of said group were the Paladin and the rogue/shadowdancer. Originally the drow was NG. but as the game progressed. he slide to N and became a DIablerist / Half fiend. by making a deal with Mephestopolies(he was originally fiendish with some stat bumps to make up the free 2 CR. That didn't work out well so... LATER, they met Malkizid (fallen solar) so the wizard to con- Mephestoplies out of his soul, 'switched sides." in favor of becoming a Lich.(figured might as well take a TRUE 2 CR)

So for most of the game I actually ran around and SURVIVED the minus 4 to all my physical stats.

I'm the only char who actually had his templates come from "In game".

The rogue was allowed a +6 To any one stat along with other stat bumps.
The fighters were able to switch any stat bumps they wanted but half dragon already gave +6 to STR. The Sorc got a +6 to CHR, and has spell casting prodigy as well.

If you notice, I did not get a +6 to any one stat. it was strictly forbidden. And i can see why honestly I thought the 38 was out there.. but if the other chars can do it.. why shouldn't i be allowed?

Then again.. the DM thinks a 38 INT is MUCH diffrent than a 40 STR.

if you notice im in munchkin land, I just happen to be able to push my one ability score higher IN GAME. and even with that still not able to effect anything.

So yes this was part rant, and yea, I just wanted to see what other peoples views were.

But no one answered the question.

Would YOU play in such a game, where you have the 38 INT and it never does much of anything?

So far, the party needed teleports in the begining, so the DM dropped boots of Teleportation for a fighter, So then my char decided ok planeshift will be his thing so he can at least help the group in some way... well..now he introduced "soul shards." which allow teleport to do interplanar travel. So last but not least, the ONLY thing my char is good at so far is "mass planar adaptation."

Im still trying to figure out why a wizard of this calabiers most important function in a party be ... 'mass planar adaptation, teleport, and planeshift."

so far... that's his effect on the entire game, in a year.

I don't know about any of you, but...Is that all really high level wizards are suppose to do?

dragonslie123 wrote:

Its not "they just save against etc etc."

its they save against EVERYTHING.

I repeat:

Maze
Prismatic Wall
Greater Planar Binding
Summon Monster VII
Reverse Gravity
Greater Polymorph

If you continue to rely on spells that provide saving throws despite consistent failure, then you reap what you sow.

Your problem is easily correctable, so why are you not correcting it?

Maze, Please cause that wouldwork for more than 1 round?

prismatic wall =s save

greater planar binding, that is beyond cheese.

Summon monster 7 outshined by the 10 fighters in the group-- I have augment summoning. trust me... i went this route.
Reverse gravity - what doesn't fly?

greater polymorph - ( you mean baleful polymorph??) save or suck.

did all these

So the 38 INT is bad compared to the barbarian with a 34 str 28 con and a 28 dex???

its not just me "munchkining" its the entire party.

I only have a 38 because the rest of the group is the same damn way.

lets see.

a 16th lvl half dragon, human fighter who hits 50+ on attack, and does on average 60 HP a hit?

its not just me.

or the "platinum half dragon" paladin. who has resist 30 everything with a RHINO for a mount.

the damn RHINO's attack bonus is +25. Not to mention the TIMES 3 damage on charge with a lance. plus smite????

its not just me guys. the entire group is munchkined out. I just happen to play a caster.

I do not see the Dice rolls. no one does. he rolls he saves.

and again I MADE the sorc CHAR. he is a NEW PLAYER.

he doesnt know any 'secret hax" he doesn't even really have access to just the core books. He NEVER played 3.5 but 3.5 is allowed.

So trust me.. im not "behind the sorc"

all the chars are min maxed. and the DM blatantly wont let the save DC's increase... cause well.. eh says they are barely manageable now, which to me is unbelievable cause well...umm... everything saves.. how is it "barely managable."

cause i actually had a way to increase it by 2 more with inherent bonuses but he told me no cause "your save DC's are high enough."

The sorc has a 32 CHR.

let me put it this way, I built the SORC for the char as he was new to 3.5 or pathfinder in general. a 32 is decent in any game, but this game uses STOCK MONSTERS.

he also has

and a meta magic rod of quicken.

other than that that is about it.

My char just uses quicken spell with universalism sp. power, and he has spell perfection lightning bolt with the ability to turn it into hell fire 8 times per day.

and hell fire in this game is the hell fire in story books. it works against devils and demons and they get no resistance to it.

again 10 wizard 5 diablorist, 2 lich. 1 drow CR 18.

we face CR 17 monsters STOCK out of the book, but with a 38 INT. even then how does the SORC with a 32 CHR's spells save? heck he hits outsider melee types with FORT saves and they fail... (new player...)

yet I hit melee types with Reflex saves and they save.

That sucks you got booted from the group for announcing your concerns on Paizo. I don't see anything wrong with it, since I would be equally baffled by the results. Maybe you were holding a cursed item or just had consistently bad rolls. Or maybe your DM doesn't know how to calculate rolls and DCs? I don't know. I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

I think the next time you play Wizard, you should try playing Conjuration. I love save or dies, but think they should be used sparingly. My favorite strategy is Summon Monster + Animal Growth + buffs. But everyone has their favorite spells. Sorry to hear this didn't turn out well. Good luck next time :)

this is the point though, I GAVE UP on save or suck spells.

Heck, stone to flesh didn't even work vs juiced up zombies.....

last game my empowered hell fire lightning bolt followed by a persistant empowered hell fire lightning bolt. got Minimum results.

(im lvl 10 wizard 5 diabolist btw).

and summoned monsters suck in his game. and he is using

STOCK MONSTERS right out of the book for most encounters. thats the part that bothers me the most. how the heck do STOCK monsters save so often???

oh and the hell fire was modified to work against everything. as 3.5 hell fire. its ALL hell fire, not half fire half negative energy

I apologize if I overlooked this in someone else's response, but...

...I never noticed the OP mention that he's targetting weak saves. He might simply be attacking the monster's best saves (having read on the interwebz that 'save or suck iz the bezt, dat's all you needz ta do!!!11!!') while the sorc is hitting lesser saves. Especially at higher levels, there's often a dramatic difference between your best and worst saves.

I've ran a game for 2 years, Its pretty easy to determine somethings poor save by size, creature type,

not to mention knowlege everything with a 36 INT, you can tell the creature type just by looking at it.

and great example.

sorc casts 2nd level create pit. Creature fails.

I cast 4th lvl create pit. Creature saves.

Both against HUGE creatures.

so.. you figuer his DC 23 VS my DC 28 both against poor saves...

this is what is frustrating.

dragonslie123 wrote:

IM still reading through this.

38 INT.

18 + 2 for drow +4 for lich (allowed to move 2 from cha bonus to int.) 3 from stat increases 1 inherant +6 headband. Takes me to 34 +2 for AGE. +2 for spell casting prodigy.

38 INT.

Spellcasting prodigy doesn't actually raise your intelligence, it just gives you more bonus spells.

Drow are +2 to Dex and Charisma.

Lich do add a +2 to Intelligence, but they also increase your effective level by +2 so he should be two levels lower than everyone else as a caster.

But nice hax on his part to avoid the -4 con penalty (drow and age) by playing a lich.

Lich does 4 and +0 cha cause dm allowed it.

and everyone has a "free +2 template" in the game. that is my plus 2 template. and prodigy increases the save DC's as well.

What happens when you cast Fireball? Mind Fog followed by a Will save spell?

save

all will saves save

all fort saves save.

heck, I was even considering irresistable dance followed by a reflex save. but...

I figured that would save.

I even throw persistant reflex spells.

Save save.

and stas I've kept track.

even on stupid chain lightnings vs dragons they've succeeded. There has literally only been 1 failed save the entire time i played.

and that was an air elemental I summoned that didn't even use my stats.

The Sorc char on average has failes at least 2-3 times a game session. While I honestly have been keeping track of how often things save. so far i count. 2.

1 chain lighting 7 months ago. and the air elemental 3 months ago. Its not hard to tell that the HUGE creatures, have sucky ref saves, the undead are immune to mind effecting.

Its not "they just save against etc etc."

its they save against EVERYTHING.

IM still reading through this.

38 INT.

18 + 2 for drow +4 for lich (allowed to move 2 from cha bonus to int.) 3 from stat increases 1 inherant +6 headband. Takes me to 34 +2 for AGE. +2 for spell casting prodigy.

38 INT.

the DM uses base creatures and does not increase them. I've tried every spell in the book literally, but honestly we both know save spells typically are better than the ones that have no saves, Im not talking about even owning the BBEG. Im talking not even being effective in random encounters???

Summoned monsters are crap when the rest of the group are fighters.

Planar binding?.. who really wants the big part of a spell casting class being running around with a 17 HD celestial dragon?...I haven't even really tried save or suck spells except in the beginning. at 12lth level when i had a 36 INT and Mass Suggesstion only worked against 1 bearded devil out of 12.

And out of 8 months?... i mean... 8 months only one thing failed a save????????? im not talking like...a strech where the spells work, or they dont work.. but they NEVER work. EVER EVER EVER EVER.

anywayz we just talked, Im out of the game cause of this post. No biggie at least i wont be frustrated anymore. Maybe in the future, I can game with them, but after 8 months this isn't fun.

Better to save the friendships than to ruin it over a game.

IF you were in a game for 8 months playing a wizard from level 13-16, with a THIRTY EIGHT ( 38 ) intelligence, and in that time ONLY 1 creature ever failed a saving throw and it was from an air elemental you summoned(which means its not even your saves they failed against). But in the party there was a Sorc. with a 32 THIRTY TWO CHR, and nothing ever saved against him. And the other party members who are not Familiar with caster types at all just see's the effects and comment constantly about how your Char is "ineffective." and the other guys "caster is so much better." ... I've played beta pathfinder, 3.0 3.5 etc etc. So I mean I even go for the poor saves and they save...for 8 months...

Prime example I cast an 8th level spell. he saves. Other player casts a 3rd level spell of the same kind and he fails... thats an 8 point swing....

and this sort of stuff is common....

What would you do? The DM knows your frustrated with the saves.

He says its dice rolls...

I mean 16th level. with a 38, I could probably make Solars my b~#%~, but I can't even kill a CR 15 monster myself????