Need lots of responses to this question.


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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I removed some posts. If you think a thread isn't worth discussing, then don't.


When it comes to watching saving throws or any other result, you always have to watch for confirmation bias. Are you really noticing every relevant piece of data or are the ones that support your own viewpoint the ones that stick in your brain? Did the DM blow just one save against the wizard character's spells or were there some the OP didn't notice?

That said, I'm instantly suspicious of anyone who always seems to roll what's needed all the time, particularly against one character. That would be pretty fishy to me (and just as subject to confirmation bias as well).

And on top of all that, getting booted from a game for griping about it online is pretty lame. If any of you think that your players aren't occasionally talking about your game behind your back, asking for opinions if there are issues they're having with it, you're living in a fantasy land. People talk. The same goes for DMs complaining about players, by the way. Most of it is about blowing off steam. Lots of it helps correct perceptions because there's no reality check like a different perspective. Sometimes it's just to receive a feeling of validation that someone has listened to you and your concerns. There isn't necessarily anything nefarious about it.
If a DM is thin-skinned enough to boot you from a game because you complained to people he doesn't even know, you're probably well-shut of that game situation.


s ss wrote:
Our group uses different character creation that is surely outside the core rules but that part aside we do follow the rest of the rules and the system holds together quite well. The encounters are also not straight out of the book as the op thinks they are. The rest of the group seems to have a blast except for one. I am not sure why I feel obligated to respond to a group of strangers other than being frustrated that as portrayed it looks like the dm is at fault and that just isn't the case.

Then give us your side of the story. Offer us a plausible explanation for why the OP was apparently being subjected to the you-can't-have-nice-things treatment. Are you not cheating? Because it certainly sounds like you are.

I'm assuming that you're the DM of this group. If you're not, you probably don't know any more about what the DM is up to than the OP does.


My side of the story short and sweet is this. I am not the dm. I do not believe for a moment the dm is cheating nor do any of the group that I have talked with. The dm had to work like a madman to convince several of the group to let him back into the game. Before the introduction of the op to the group we had maybe two semi serious problems that o recall in more years than I care to count and now problems POP up somewhat often and guess with who?

Just a little shocked at how quickly we jump to conclusions suffice to say if you knew the whole story and history I think you would use your words a little wiser.

Liberty's Edge

s ss wrote:

Our group uses different character creation that is surely outside the core rules but that part aside we do follow the rest of the rules and the system holds together quite well.

Respectfully, what he posted was 3 level adjustments up, minimum (lich, Drow Noble) mixed with unpublished feats.

You can't say if a system holds up or doesn't hold up if you aren't using it.

I agree with you that if everyone at the table is having fun it doesn't matter, but what I am trying to get across to him is that if he cares about the outcome of rolls, the fact that his scores are completely outside of the rule set pretty much negates any advice that can be given as the DM has already handed him the game.

If the DM is fudging rolls occasionally, he should be surprised. He fudged the rules in the first place to give him all the excessive abilities.

It's a rigged game. Sometimes those are a lot of fun, much like playing video games in god mode.

But when you are playing in a game that is rigged, you can't get upset if the person who did the rigging occasionally rigs it for what they want as well.

Shadow Lodge

s ss:

Do the targets of the OP's spells succeed all the time, even though he has higher DCs than the sorcerer?

Why would the constant successful saves be a source of friction? What other problems are there in the game attributable to the OP?


The problem I have been having, and have had from the beginning, and complaining about now, are all the same issue.

And if it happened "here or there" I probrobly wouldn't even notice. The fact is it happens every game session.

My char is 'far from god mode." in this game. The only thing he can do is "hide" or make himself not able to be hit. But he can't hit at all. Sorry "wall of force" and 'resilient sphere" centered on yourself stops most things....

OF course, when chain lightning, feeblemind, Dispel magic(useless in the game as nothing is ever buffed except BBEG Drow have constant detect magic.), flesh to stone, enervate, create pit, summon air elemental 7, magic missle..(why magic missle average damage on a fighter is like 70 or so for ONE hit in this game.), mass suggestion, suggestion, finger of death, grasping hand, clinched fist, Black tenticals(never worked once..maybe its the monsters ok sure...), hydraulic push, disintergrate, cone of cold, baleful polymorph, fear, ... and im not talking "random spells vs monsters" im talking

chain lightning vs an ancient red dragon. Save, Feeblemind vs anything in the game as its all outsiders with Sp abilities, save, Disintegrate vs undead, save, black tenticals vs anything humoid no effect, grasping hand clinched fist, ok great. i get a cover bonus but that's about it, they are all interposing hand and that's it.,

mass suggesstion on horned devils, saved... guess they had 10 Wizard levels or 20 fighter levels added on?

create pit,greater vs mithral golems(huge), saved he throws create pit 2nd lvl both fail, I throw greater pit vs the other mithral golem, save, he throws 2nd level version, fail. I summon air elemental whirlwind save (for about 2 rounds.) then finally he failed reflex save vs an air elemental AFTER they both got dealt and failed a grasp of the dead???. note my 4th lvl spell actually hits harder than his grasp of the dead by 1 DC....

finger of death against something with 6 negative levels, saved.

cone of cold vs dragon, saved.

just examples...... I actually stopped even trying to cast spells at monsters....

this has been the whole game.

turn one Sorc goes first. Grasp of the dead, everything fails and is stuck or half the monsters usually, fighters move in kill, i throw a fireball or something save, next round party finishes them off cause they have 5 HP or something.

Turn one sorc goes first does a Fort saved vs melee types Fail, I throw mass suggestion Save.

I go first throw mass suggestion vs bearded devils (6) all 6 save. he throws grasp of the dead, all get trapped....

so then i started doing what his char does. AOE damage spells.

Disintergrate vs undead save,
Fireball save
cone of cold after a dispel magic greater on a huge red dragon, save.

this is honestly the game.


dragonslie123 wrote:

The problem I have been having, and have had from the beginning, and complaining about now, are all the same issue.

And if it happened "here or there" I probrobly wouldn't even notice. The fact is it happens every game session.

My char is 'far from god mode." in this game. The only thing he can do is "hide" or make himself not able to be hit. But he can't hit at all. Sorry "wall of force" and 'resilient sphere" centered on yourself stops most things....

OF course, when chain lightning, feeblemind, Dispel magic(useless in the game as nothing is ever buffed except BBEG Drow have constant detect magic.), flesh to stone, enervate, create pit, summon air elemental 7, magic missle..(why magic missle average damage on a fighter is like 70 or so for ONE hit in this game.), mass suggestion, suggestion, finger of death, grasping hand, clinched fist, Black tenticals(never worked once..maybe its the monsters ok sure...), hydraulic push, disintergrate, cone of cold, baleful polymorph, fear, ... and im not talking "random spells vs monsters" im talking

chain lightning vs an ancient red dragon. Save, Feeblemind vs anything in the game as its all outsiders with Sp abilities, save, Disintegrate vs undead, save, black tenticals vs anything humoid no effect, grasping hand clinched fist, ok great. i get a cover bonus but that's about it, they are all interposing hand and that's it.,

mass suggesstion on horned devils, saved... guess they had 10 Wizard levels or 20 fighter levels added on?

create pit,greater vs mithral golems(huge), saved he throws create pit 2nd lvl both fail, I throw greater pit vs the other mithral golem, save, he throws 2nd level version, fail. I summon air elemental whirlwind save (for about 2 rounds.) then finally he failed reflex save vs an air elemental AFTER they both got dealt and failed a grasp of the dead???. note my 4th lvl spell actually hits harder than his grasp of the dead by 1 DC....

finger of death against something with 6 negative levels, saved.

cone of cold vs dragon,...

Might I suggest some spells that are unlikely to fail:

True Strike + any number of Rays: Enervation could be rewarding. Or maybe start to conetrate your effords on buffin other characters. It may be less glorious, but you will contribute.

If you are not enjoying the game maybe you should talk with the gm and the other players about something with a little less power.


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dragonslie123 wrote:


Maze, Please cause that wouldwork for more than 1 round?

Depends on the creature. The thing is, there is no save, and there is an INT ability check to get out. Ability checks do not automatically succeed on a 20, which means that any creature with less than 10 INT can't get out of the Maze for 10 minutes, no save, and no chance to reduce the time.

So for example, if the party is fighting a couple Fiendish Colossal Scorpions (each CR 16), you cast maze, kill the other, heal up, set up baracades, find cover, summon some critters, wait, have tea, scorpion returns at the exact moment you predict and you destroy him.

Against creatures with high Int, you count on 1 round, but that too has its purpose.

What's with the "please"?

Quote:
prismatic wall =s save

Prismatic wall is a ahem...wall. It is for controlling the battlefield. If your opponents are stupid enough to run through it, they take craploads of pain even if they make all 7 saving throws in a row.

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greater planar binding, that is beyond cheese.

I'm very sorry mister 38 Int.

Are you for real?

Quote:
Summon monster 7 outshined by the 10 fighters in the group-- I have augment summoning. trust me... i went this route.

Summon monster isn't about replacing fighters...I would explain, but I'm pretty sure there is trolling going on, so it's probably not worth the effort.

Quote:
Reverse gravity - what doesn't fly?

Want a list?

Here's an idea, why don't you look at the "monsters by CR" in the PFRD, you will find many CR15+ that don't fly.

Here's one: Tarrasque (CR 25), since there is no SR, no Save, Tarrasque is rendered useless instantly and without fail.

Like Maze, you have it ready for those it will work against.

Quote:
greater polymorph - ( you mean baleful polymorph??) save or suck.

No, not baleful polymorph, GREATER polymorph. If the opponents always save, then buff.

Didn't you just claim the party was full of fighter types?

Quote:
did all these

Did you do maze against a creature with <10 Int? Obviously not.

Did you do reverse gravity against a creature that can't fly? Nope.

Did you use Greater Planar Binding to build your power? You say no.

Did you use Prismatic Wall to control the battlefield? Sounds like not.

Did you do Greater Polymorph to buff your allies? Nope.

How can you claim you "did all these"?


s ss wrote:

My side of the story short and sweet is this. I am not the dm. I do not believe for a moment the dm is cheating nor do any of the group that I have talked with. The dm had to work like a madman to convince several of the group to let him back into the game. Before the introduction of the op to the group we had maybe two semi serious problems that o recall in more years than I care to count and now problems POP up somewhat often and guess with who?

Just a little shocked at how quickly we jump to conclusions suffice to say if you knew the whole story and history I think you would use your words a little wiser.

We're "jumping" to conclusions because the information that we've been given says that the OP's spells never work (despite having monstrously high DCs) and the sorcerer's spells always work (despite having lower DCs). If you'd like to share with us something to the contrary, be our guest. But the OP seems to describe a months-long pattern of passive-aggressive cheating by the DM. I'd love an explanation for how the OP could have had this experience without the DM deliberately lying about scores of his own dice rolls.


Scott Betts wrote:
s ss wrote:

My side of the story short and sweet is this. I am not the dm. I do not believe for a moment the dm is cheating nor do any of the group that I have talked with. The dm had to work like a madman to convince several of the group to let him back into the game. Before the introduction of the op to the group we had maybe two semi serious problems that o recall in more years than I care to count and now problems POP up somewhat often and guess with who?

Just a little shocked at how quickly we jump to conclusions suffice to say if you knew the whole story and history I think you would use your words a little wiser.

We're "jumping" to conclusions because the information that we've been given says that the OP's spells never work (despite having monstrously high DCs) and the sorcerer's spells always work (despite having lower DCs). If you'd like to share with us something to the contrary, be our guest. But the OP seems to describe a months-long pattern of passive-aggressive cheating by the DM. I'd love an explanation for how the OP could have had this experience without the DM deliberately lying about scores of his own dice rolls.

We don't know how often they've played or how many combats they've had, or how many times the OP has had enemies make their saving throws.

I'll grant you this, if there have been several spells cast (say 10 or more by both Wiz and Sor) and this pattern has emerged as the OP describes, then mathematically, it's too remote a statistical possibility to be anything but fudged rolls.

If there have been significantly less spells cast, then it could be bad luck.


I would like to start off by saying that I am Adam, the DM under the knife here. I read through most of the current posts. I dont normally care what people talk about in these forums, or how they come about thier conclusions. This specific circumstance rather irritates me. The sole purpose of my adventure if for ALL of my players to have fun, and while I use the rules as a general guideline, nothing is set in stone. Now keep in mind I have anywhere from 6-8 players in a resonably high level, and high powered chronicle. It frustrates me as a player, as a dungeon master, and more importantly as his friend that he would rather take this to an open forumed message board rather then address me personally, like a man about it.

I will not sit here and say that I havnt fudged roll, because I think it is safe to say that all DM's do it on occasion. With that in mind, I have in no way creatded this fictional vendetta against him of the effectiveness of his character by intentionally screwing him over. The rolls that I "fudge" are done so in a manner that keeps the intergirty of my group, and my players.

If would behoove him to actually have his facts straight, and give you an completely accurate painting of the setting, not just what he THINKS that he percieves and knows. I am not going to taike the low road and attempt to belittle him, thats not my style. With all this being said, if any of you care that much to contact me personally, feel free to do so at adam.metz33@gmail.com

Thank you all for your input and criticism's.


Adam Metz wrote:

I would like to start off by saying that I am Adam, the DM under the knife here. I read through most of the current posts. I dont normally care what people talk about in these forums, or how they come about thier conclusions. This specific circumstance rather irritates me. The sole purpose of my adventure if for ALL of my players to have fun, and while I use the rules as a general guideline, nothing is set in stone. Now keep in mind I have anywhere from 6-8 players in a resonably high level, and high powered chronicle. It frustrates me as a player, as a dungeon master, and more importantly as his friend that he would rather take this to an open forumed message board rather then address me personally, like a man about it.

<snip>
I am not going to taike the low road and attempt to belittle him, thats not my style.

I hate to say it, Adam, but you've already belittled him. See my bolding above.

Nobody likes it when people talk behind their backs, but it happens. As I said upthread, sometimes it's done to just blow off steam, sometimes it's for validation. It's usually not particularly consequential.


Adam Metz wrote:
I will not sit here and say that I havnt fudged roll, because I think it is safe to say that all DM's do it on occasion. With that in mind, I have in no way creatded this fictional vendetta against him of the effectiveness of his character by intentionally screwing him over. The rolls that I "fudge" are done so in a manner that keeps the intergirty of my group, and my players.

The rolls that you fudge have, apparently, rather directly contributed to a loss in group integrity, not to mention creating a situation that was so unenjoyable for the player in question that he didn't seem to mind leaving the group at all.

Whether you did this with a personal vendetta in mind really doesn't matter; your motivations are not important, because he can't read your mind. You fudged dice, and it certainly sounds like those fudged dice came down on the side of making his character so ineffective that his own party members would complain about it. I'm sure that wasn't your goal (well, mostly sure), but that's what you accomplished.


This thread was to blow off steam, I never even intended for other party members to read it. Heck, the entire point of the thread was to see what other peoples perceptions would be, and if they would play in the game because I've considered leaving times in the past.

Do I like hanging out with you guys? yea sure who doesn't, we've been friends forever. But that doesn't mean I like playing in the game when the party complains about how ineffective my char is, and it appears that my char can't do anything good in combat no matter what role I take?

You and stas say " I don't have all the facts."

great, but, I have the one fact that matters, No one in the group thinks my char is effective in the slightest.

And no one likes playing a Char that is behind the 8 ball compared to everyone else in the group.

Everyone is supposed to be heros in the game, not sidekicks.


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This thread just became Paizo's Jersey Shore. And for that, I say thank you, dragonslie123, Adam Metz, and s ss.


Have you tried buying some new dice?

I once had some old dice (like from the 1980s) that always seemed to roll 1s. Turns out, it wasn't my imagination. Some of he corners had worn down in just the right way to bias it towards rolling a 1.


darth_borehd wrote:

Have you tried buying some new dice?

I once had some old dice (like from the 1980s) that always seemed to roll 1s. Turns out, it wasn't my imagination. Some of he corners had worn down in just the right way to bias it towards rolling a 1.

This is an issue of the DM's dice consistently rolling high on saves against the player's spells and consistently low on saves against a different player's spells. Buying new dice won't do anything when the problem is - admittedly! - that the DM is ignoring what the dice say anyway.

Liberty's Edge

Scott Betts wrote:
darth_borehd wrote:

Have you tried buying some new dice?

I once had some old dice (like from the 1980s) that always seemed to roll 1s. Turns out, it wasn't my imagination. Some of he corners had worn down in just the right way to bias it towards rolling a 1.

This is an issue of the DM's dice consistently rolling high on saves against the player's spells and consistently low on saves against a different player's spells. Buying new dice won't do anything when the problem is - admittedly! - that the DM is ignoring what the dice say anyway.

Like I said, if a player is allowed by the DM to ignore the rules the player shouldn't be surprised if the DM does the same.


ciretose wrote:


Like I said, if a player is allowed by the DM to ignore the rules the player shouldn't be surprised if the DM does the same.

Who says the player is ignoring rules? They've said they use non-standard character building rules. If he's conforming to those rules, why should he expect the DM to not adhere to a set of rules that works with them rather than simply nerfs them?

And we don't really have the DM saying he admits ignoring what the dice say. We just don't have any clear indication of what he means by fudging to preserve the integrity of the group with respect to either frequency or content. Nor do we have a clear indication which perspective, Dragonlies123 or Adam Metz, conforms closer to an impartial perspective.

Like I've said before, I'm content to be suspicious of too many rolls one way or the other. I'm content to conclude that the player is well-shut of the situation if he's out of the game. I'm also content to take any of the involved posters at their word until they indicate otherwise. I'm just not content to believe we're getting the full, complete, and objective story from any of them.

Liberty's Edge

Bill Dunn wrote:
ciretose wrote:


Like I said, if a player is allowed by the DM to ignore the rules the player shouldn't be surprised if the DM does the same.

Who says the player is ignoring rules? They've said they use non-standard character building rules. If he's conforming to those rules, why should he expect the DM to not adhere to a set of rules that works with them rather than simply nerfs them?

And we don't really have the DM saying he admits ignoring what the dice say. We just don't have any clear indication of what he means by fudging to preserve the integrity of the group with respect to either frequency or content. Nor do we have a clear indication which perspective, Dragonlies123 or Adam Metz, conforms closer to an impartial perspective.

Like I've said before, I'm content to be suspicious of too many rolls one way or the other. I'm content to conclude that the player is well-shut of the situation if he's out of the game. I'm also content to take any of the involved posters at their word until they indicate otherwise. I'm just not content to believe we're getting the full, complete, and objective story from any of them.

Any rule set that allows you to create a Venerable Drow Noble Lich with no level adjustment and a feat pulled from a computer game goes well beyond “Non-Standard” character creation.

These are the players and groups that make me avoid my FLGS events. Which is a shame, as I would love to run or play in those open groups at my FLGS.

I think that is the best way to expand interest and grow the hobby.

But every time I go there and look around, I see and hear this kind of stuff and just buy a miniature or some dice and move on.

I’m very lucky that my friends constitute a fairly large gaming community. But posts like this keep me from going to conventions, trying to run in open settings, etc…

The DM basically gave him everything he wanted, even if it made absolutely no contextual sense and was directly against the rules. And he his complaining he isn’t powerful enough.

I sympathize with the DM a bit, as it sounds like he’s trying to be a good guy and accommodate everyone, but when the power gaming got out of control he tried to balance the table to keep everyone happy.

And then the cheese builder started whining because his cheese build wasn’t “winning”.

I am lucky. I have a house with a pool table we convert into a gaming table. I’ve got a library of Pathfinder books personally, and between my friends we have a virtual game store worth of books, miniatures, dice, etc…

I want to grow the game, I would love to expand our group out or meet new players to get more regular games going.

But players like this…

Let me be clear. We have optimizers at the table. Hell I like to think of myself as an optimizer. But we do it within the rule set starting from the concept and setting. Some players are better at building than others, and some builds work better than others. We have one guy who pores over the books and finds amazing synergies.

But he always does it starting from a concept that he makes considering the make up of the group, then trying to find the best way to create that concept that fits into the setting and within the group.

There is no wrongbadfun. If you have a group that can get along well with these kind of loose restrictions because they trust the DM to be fair, all sorts of things work great. One of the most fun games we ever ran was the horribly broken “Aberrant Superheroes” because our DM had a firm hand about what he would and would not allow and constantly worked with players to either not take broken options, or to fix them if they appeared by finding reasonable nerfs to keep everyone in the same ballpark.

But in this instance they player was given a ridiculously amount of lee way to create a character that should be classified as a minimum of 3 levels higher than his class levels and is now complaining he isn’t powerful enough.

I personally would not want my DM fudging rolls. I want him to make sure the system is balance enough that the dice can be random and things will work out fairly. I wouldn’t want to play in this game, as it seems clear that the players are able to build way outside of the rule set to the point that anyone who plays within the rule set can’t compete without DM help.


ciretose wrote:
Any rule set that allows you to create a Venerable Drow Noble Lich with no level adjustment and a feat pulled from a computer game goes well beyond “Non-Standard” character creation.

It doesn't really matter if it's a little beyond standard or a lot. It looks like everybody is doing things well beyond standard. If that's the case, then it's fair even if it looks silly to you. The game should proceed fairly from that basis.

ciretose wrote:

The DM basically gave him everything he wanted, even if it made absolutely no contextual sense and was directly against the rules. And he his complaining he isn’t powerful enough.

I sympathize with the DM a bit, as it sounds like he’s trying to be a good guy and accommodate everyone, but when the power gaming got out of control he tried to balance the table to keep everyone happy.

And then the cheese builder started whining because his cheese build wasn’t “winning”.

I think we can afford to be a little more fair here. He's not complaining that he isn't winning. He's complaining that he's completely stymied while the other players are doing just better. If Dragonslie123's perceptions are correct and the DM is fudging to stymie him, it doesn't matter if he's doing it because he's trying to balance the game, he's doing it too much and throwing the game out of balance as a result of doing so.


Dear God what's happening here, I'm confused and scared.


Bill Dunn wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Any rule set that allows you to create a Venerable Drow Noble Lich with no level adjustment and a feat pulled from a computer game goes well beyond “Non-Standard” character creation.

It doesn't really matter if it's a little beyond standard or a lot. It looks like everybody is doing things well beyond standard. If that's the case, then it's fair even if it looks silly to you. The game should proceed fairly from that basis.

ciretose wrote:

The DM basically gave him everything he wanted, even if it made absolutely no contextual sense and was directly against the rules. And he his complaining he isn’t powerful enough.

I sympathize with the DM a bit, as it sounds like he’s trying to be a good guy and accommodate everyone, but when the power gaming got out of control he tried to balance the table to keep everyone happy.

And then the cheese builder started whining because his cheese build wasn’t “winning”.

I think we can afford to be a little more fair here. He's not complaining that he isn't winning. He's complaining that he's completely stymied while the other players are doing just better. If Dragonslie123's perceptions are correct and the DM is fudging to stymie him, it doesn't matter if he's doing it because he's trying to balance the game, he's doing it too much and throwing the game out of balance as a result of doing so.

this is perhaps my perception and that of other players as well, not just me.

My char is INEFFECTIVE, to the point that everyone has ASKED "why is the sorc so much better than yours, obviously, your char is not very good." (I can't believe no matter the equipment, that a 38 INT Wizard could be "not very good.")

the ENTIRE GROUP is min max and has LVL adjus. EQUAL to mine. In some instances even a little better. EXAMPLE SORC HAS +6 RACIAL bonus to CHA. I only have a +4.

I couldn't care less if I "won or not." im not looking to "end every encounter." all im asking for is that if the fighters in the group can end an encounter in 3 hits, why can't I end one with one higher level spell?... isn't that fair???

If I happen to guess something has the cold subtype because they are encased in ice, shouldn't I at least be allowed to throw a fireball at it??


dragonslie123 wrote:
My char is INEFFECTIVE, to the point that everyone has ASKED "why is the sorc so much better than yours, obviously, your char is not very good." (I can't believe no matter the equipment, that a 38 INT Wizard could be "not very good.")

A Wizard with an Intelligence of 38 could have no legs, one arm, no eyes, and a frontal lobotomy and should still be a one-man encounter-wrecking ball.


ciretose wrote:
...and a feat pulled from a computer game...

I just want to point out that the 3.0 version of Spellcasting Prodigy let you get the bonus spells and bumped the save DCs. I think it was in the FRCS.

I'd also like to throw in my support for the "What did you think would happen?" argument. I'm certain nobody was complaining when Adam told the players all the rules they were allowed to break, he just left out which rules he was breaking. I believe him when he said it was in the interest of maintaining the "intergirty" of the game, and I believe dragonslie feels he was unfairly targeted. If everybody is breaking the rules though, eventually something is going to feel out of whack.

If I were dragonslie, and I decided to and was allowed to continue playing, I would keep a tally of the failures/successes of my spells compared to the other players. I wouldn't estimate or say it seems like all my spells fail. I'd write down every spell cast and the results. Then after game I'd show Adam the proof that he's biased against my spells, intentionally or not. Maybe then he'd distribute the fudge more evenly.


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Edit: post was in bad form.

GM: smarten up! Good GM's either don't fudge rolls or they fudge rolls to prevent long lucky/unlucky streaks that ruin players fun.

Extending a players unlucky streak by fudging rolls...

...shame.

Liberty's Edge

Treantmonk wrote:

Edit: post was in bad form.

GM: smarten up! Good GM's either don't fudge rolls or they fudge rolls to prevent long lucky/unlucky streaks that ruin players fun.

Extending a players unlucky streak by fudging rolls...

...shame.

Damn, I thought you were finally coming down to our level, sir :)


ciretose wrote:

Damn, I thought you were finally coming down to our level, sir :)

lol, you mean UP to your level sir.

First post I made was beneath either of us. I read the GM's post and figured statements like, "The sole purpose of my adventure if for ALL of my players to have fun" deserved a snarky response, considering he's fudging rolls to ensure the opposite.

My response sat in my stomach as less snark, more insult. Couldn't leave it that way.


ciretose wrote:

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So you're who the old-timers are talking about when they complain about the Cult of Official Rules!

/epiphany

Also, this thread has waaaay too many ellipses!

Liberty's Edge

Tequila Sunrise wrote:
ciretose wrote:

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So you're who the old-timers are talking about when they complain about the Cult of Official Rules!

/epiphany

Also, this thread has waaaay too many ellipses!

Or I am the one who actually thinks the people who write setting books are much more able to formulate coherent narratives than anyone who would reasonably think a venerable drow noble lich could slide comfortably into a given adventure path.


[cue music]Ebony and ivory...
a Lich and Paladin in the same party...[/music]

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