Kaklatath the Seeded

Yakman's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 2,157 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 4 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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Kamyr wrote:

Mechs aren't objects, but they're constructs with the technological subtype. Construct is a creature type. They are never explicity called creatures, though, and the example blocks are written with the frame name (Gargantuan blinkstriker, etc.), so it's vaguely ambiguous.

A reading of them implicitly not being creatures and explicitly not being objects would mean they are untargetable by a vast number of abilities (including plain damage spells like explosive blast or ones that have effect on tech constructs but target creatures or objects).

My personal reading is they are creatures.

They don't have a Will save in the example blocks, but they have a 'base save bonus'. Nothing explicitly says they do not have a Will save, only that components may increase fort and ref. Also, even objects have will saves, so them not having one at all is weird.

Override can be used on 'creatures with the technological subtype'. As can ghost in the machine. Unless mechs are ruled explicitly not creatures (by GM or Paizo), then GitM opens up questions about what 'dictating its actions' entails. I'd probably just let them reuse it for the daze to start.

A small number of similar weird interactions exist if they're creatures, but far less than I expected (eg staggered is rough on 2+ operator mechs, I gave them polymorph immunity for baleful 3+ and poly 6, and I added a will save increase method). And none of it seemed as bad as making people cry when they can't use any effect that isn't at a 'target' or 'enemy'.

The 2+ mecha operators is also confusing...

I used to run a mystic who used demoralize in combat. Could she do that to a mecha? Does it work on one or more of the operators or on the mecha itself? She used mind thrust as well. Does that do damage to the operator or to the mecha?

I honestly dunno. I'd really like to include mecha in my next AP, but it would be nice to have clarification to the rules, so I'm not adjudicating them on the fly and my players can know what they should and should not do when they are fighting against or in mechas.

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brain fungus

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Grankless wrote:

Bachuan just blatantly being "what if North Korea was in Golarion" has always struck me as very unnuanced and kind of unpleasant. (And yeah Corvus, Peijia's population thing is a reference to Pyongyang). There's nothing there that really seems to make it that interesting of a place beyond the sort of "driving past a car wreck" feeling that a lot of North Korea stuff elicits in USAmericans. (I also wish there was just a more nuanced interpretation of communism in Golarion in general - it's Bachuan and what, that random village in Varisia that's secretly a cult or something?)

It needs to have something more interesting as a hook to justify how kind of uncreative the whole place seems. It feels like a place with a very limited amount of stories you can tell in it. (That third palace is intriguing though.)

well... there's lots of nuance there if you incorporate the nuance in North Korea and move away from the stereotypes.

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I think this will be a lot of fun. Particularly allowing players to swap out PCs between missions.

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Garretmander wrote:
Assuming that's the mechanic's class feature of the same name. Overload doesn't affect androids, cybernetics, drones, power armor, or robots because they all have built in shielding against that sort of attack. I would say that mechs also have the same built in safeties.

sorry, i meant OVERRIDE, the improved version of OVERLOAD.

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Leon Aquilla wrote:
Quote:
Yup. Your little table can't possibly keep up with EVERYTHING that happens.

My "little table" has knocked out more SF content this year than you will in five.

There's a difference between "we had lobster with a nice chardonnay while the AP said the party had a rare done steak at the big dinner in act 2" and "our universe is wildly different from the Starfinder universe as written by the authors" and it's patronizing to act otherwise.

The authors are on record as wanting to "do something" about the "Pahtran problem", Jenny Jarzabski said as much in winter of last year. If the message I get from the staff is "We're going to introduce a canon solution to this" then I'd rather wait for them to write it than get ahead of things. You are all acting like I should just go ahead and close the Worldwound six months before Paizo announces Wrath of the Righteous. Pass, thanks.

Use this "get gud/learn2GM" schtick on someone else who just fell off the turnip truck.

if you want to close the Worldwound at your table then... close the Worldwound at your table. If you don't want to... don't. You don't have to explain yourself to anyone.

It's your game. It's your table.

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Leon Aquilla wrote:
If you want to know why people aren't talking about Drift Crisis as much, go look at the review section.

I really enjoy Drift Crisis. It's a solid book. I've used some of the monsters in my current AP, and plan to use some of the Absalom Station Ghost levels stuff in the future.

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Goblin dad wrote:
Yakman wrote:
Goblin dad wrote:
Yakman wrote:

1) learn the new action economy. it's much simpler, but the terminology is very similar to 3.5/pathfinder and the differences can be confusing

2) there's no real way to pun pun, and you don't "need" any particular class in a party

3) healing only heals HP, not SP. you can only restore SP is w/ a 10 minute rest (and using an RP) or an envoy

4) The operative's trick attack is VERY CONFUSING. Essentially, they can as a full action, move their speed (so walk, not run) and do their trick attack. They can't guarded step and trick attack (which is what players want to do). Similarly, the drone rules can be confusing.

5) it's a pretty forgiving system. You'll do great. Welcome!

That's some good advice thanks. Yeah normally it's the little things that sneak by like that's guarded step+trick would probably slipped past me as I see it as move action so yeah. Thanks for that one.

Is there anything I should be aware of not to do as the DM as the loot system in this one is a bit different so I don't want to end up giving to little or to much loot. "I tend to be a generous loot goblin" like I get I should be careful not to hand say a level 10 weapon to a group of level 5s because they somehow took out something they should have ran from. But overall what's a good line I. That one here. In terms of gear like 1-3 levels ahead of the party range.

Personally, I tell players to reset their total wealth every few levels to what's suggested for total character wealth in the book.

Gear all has levels, so that's the easiest way to manage loot - just give them stuff that's at most their own level (or one higher, if they are going through a stretch w/ no shopping.

Don't give out gear that's 3 levels higher. Your PCs will just stomp everything. At most, 2 levels, but really, I'd suggest giving them stuff at their own level.

Yeah that sounds about right. I did set a ground rule "which I think was suggested in the book" that they...

Yup that's a good way to run it. And they should remember that the fusions are really important.

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Goblin dad wrote:
Yakman wrote:

1) learn the new action economy. it's much simpler, but the terminology is very similar to 3.5/pathfinder and the differences can be confusing

2) there's no real way to pun pun, and you don't "need" any particular class in a party

3) healing only heals HP, not SP. you can only restore SP is w/ a 10 minute rest (and using an RP) or an envoy

4) The operative's trick attack is VERY CONFUSING. Essentially, they can as a full action, move their speed (so walk, not run) and do their trick attack. They can't guarded step and trick attack (which is what players want to do). Similarly, the drone rules can be confusing.

5) it's a pretty forgiving system. You'll do great. Welcome!

That's some good advice thanks. Yeah normally it's the little things that sneak by like that's guarded step+trick would probably slipped past me as I see it as move action so yeah. Thanks for that one.

Is there anything I should be aware of not to do as the DM as the loot system in this one is a bit different so I don't want to end up giving to little or to much loot. "I tend to be a generous loot goblin" like I get I should be careful not to hand say a level 10 weapon to a group of level 5s because they somehow took out something they should have ran from. But overall what's a good line I. That one here. In terms of gear like 1-3 levels ahead of the party range.

Personally, I tell players to reset their total wealth every few levels to what's suggested for total character wealth in the book.

Gear all has levels, so that's the easiest way to manage loot - just give them stuff that's at most their own level (or one higher, if they are going through a stretch w/ no shopping.

Don't give out gear that's 3 levels higher. Your PCs will just stomp everything. At most, 2 levels, but really, I'd suggest giving them stuff at their own level.

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1) learn the new action economy. it's much simpler, but the terminology is very similar to 3.5/pathfinder and the differences can be confusing

2) there's no real way to pun pun, and you don't "need" any particular class in a party

3) healing only heals HP, not SP. you can only restore SP is w/ a 10 minute rest (and using an RP) or an envoy

4) The operative's trick attack is VERY CONFUSING. Essentially, they can as a full action, move their speed (so walk, not run) and do their trick attack. They can't guarded step and trick attack (which is what players want to do). Similarly, the drone rules can be confusing.

5) it's a pretty forgiving system. You'll do great. Welcome!

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Starting Act III next session... my party stompadonked everything in Book 6 so far. Any ideas about how to make the final encounter challenging? Or is it tough enough?

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CorvusMask wrote:
Honestly kinda wondering what is up with Orc pantheon because in 1e they each had four domains which was usually sign of them being demigods. Like is orc pantheon just bunch of ascended orcs who became god-like in Volkorgoth?

yeah, i thought they were sorta like hero-gods...

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if you know 1E, you'll pick up SF in no time. @BigNorseWolf hit the biggest points. Other stuff - haste, trick attacks, for instance - is a bit confusing at first, but you'll get there. It's a really forgiving system, and PCs are pretty tough, so don't worry too much about making mistakes.

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Garretmander wrote:
2) A mech is considered a construct for the purpose of spells and effects. An inactive mech is treated the same as an inactive construct - not an object.

How does that work for something like OVERLOAD?

A mech isn't a creature - it has no Will Save.

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Very cool. We still would have fought a mecha and some space hippos on Krysten Sinema's face last night, but this is good to know for the future.

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SOLDIER-1st wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing Molthune as the meritocratic country. The militarization makes them (theoretically) partially there already.

Molthune is clearly an aristocracy.

Which is why they hate Nirmathas.

(and if you think militarism can equate with meritocracy, I got a bridge to sell you)

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Yakman wrote:
it would be nice to have affliction rules for the bad guys in 4 & 5

i built some basic ones... nothing elegant.

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ISLE. OF. TERROR.

that is all.

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Cori Marie wrote:
Yeah that's the Risk of running any published module/adventure really, no matter what if they canonize something down the line yours will always be different. That's a good thing, it adds flavor to your own version of the universe.

Yup. Your little table can't possibly keep up with EVERYTHING that happens. And you get to decide if it even does have continuity from game to game (I've decided that the series of Starfinder games I've played in does, but by no means is that a requirement...)

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Just got through the fight with Gustari, and boy, that could have been a TPK. Tight, tense action, and trash DM damage rolls.

I'd really recommend taking a few minutes to familiarize w/ the flight rules.

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Leon Aquilla wrote:
Opsylum wrote:
Anyone get this yet?

Yes, just today.

One thing that stuck out to me (it's a good read so far) is the cover is misleading, there are no car races in the adventure.

** spoiler omitted **

In addition the races all appear to utilize the starship chase rules from Starship Operations Manual to resolve them rather than the corebook rules on vehicle chase scenes.

So if you were hoping to use your experimental vehicle mechanic idea in this one (like I was) might need to adjust your expectations.

well... that's different.

any other initial thoughts?

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well best of luck to Jason!

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Squiggit wrote:
Leon Aquilla wrote:


Dead Suns book 1 had a red herring with no follow-up that honestly was a relic of PF1 thinking and you can easily toss it.
I mean yeah, that's why it annoyed me, because it seemed like a genuinely interesting setup and instead of running with it at all it was so irrelevant you could basically just skip book 1 entirely.

The later books (5&6) could really have been improved w/ tying back to Book 1 better.

I know that they aren't going to fix the gaps and the plot's pain points when they publish the hard cover for Dead Suns, but they really should.

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Squiggit wrote:
RiverMesa wrote:

Starfinder is pretty overdue for a cyberpunk, urban, possibly-corporate intrigue kind of AP - Shadowrun is one of its big influences after all, it'd be really cool to have an homage to that kind of thing.

Plop it on Absalom Station, Verces or Apostae and have minimal starship involvement - though potentially with a permanent vehicle in its place, to spice things up.
This please. Dead Suns 1 had shady megacorporations, intrigue, with the PCs caught in the middle of something they have woefully imperfect information on... and then it just goes away and is never brought up again and I've been wanting something that dives into those ideas more ever since.

there's a whole conspiracy AP...

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well... book 1 deals with a lot of the preparation for the festival. it's reasonable to extend that out further... they are building lots of stuff. probably takes a long time to do so - not like these big events go up overnight.

but remember - "Level" is a conceit used to keep play interesting and different for the players. It's not really a 'thing' it's a way to tell your story and keep it exciting for your players. So yeah, you can just let it be 3 months. In my game, my group got to level 10 in a month - it's fine.

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Honestly, I really think this AP is one that would seriously benefit from a group session to collaborate on the party's theme and intent. There's all these other adventuring groups out there, and your party shouldn't just be the 'we met at a tavern the night before' group.

My idea would be to have the party be a group of students from some Ustalavic University. If you wanted to ignore the high-imperialist look of that, then researchers from the Sothis Exhibitory or something like that.

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Kasoh wrote:

An interesting point about Norgorber, who was the first ascended after Aroden, if I recall, was that Aroden hated Norgorbor for using the Starstone to become a god of murder and lies and his church had a lasting enmity with Norgorbor's.

Erik Mona, Pathfinder 100 wrote:
Norgorber represents the darkest urges of humanity, the murderous, self-destructing impulses that keep the race unable to escape its worst depravities. That the villain managed to coax divinity from the very Starstone that Aroden had raised from the ocean depths made Norgorber—and his debased followers—sworn enemies of Arodenites everywhere.
There's a weird optimism to Aroden, I guess. He always thought he was going to make humanity better and that humanity would reciprocate. He survived Earthfall and brought the Everlasting Gobstopper of Divinity to the Surface, built a magnificent city around it and helped remake most of a human civilization, and then he's surprised when they disappoint him again and again.

Aroden was just jealous that Norgorber is the true god of humanity.

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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Kasoh wrote:
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
That would imply Tar-Baphon has the ability to love something other than power...
I just get big 'notice me sempai' vibes off of Tar-Baphon re:Aroden is all.
Oh, absolutely, but I'd argue a strong component of that is Tar-Baphon seeks validation by being the most powerful person around, and since Aroden is seemingly the first mortal to ascend to godhood, Tar-Baphon immediately felt compelled to one-up him. Every time he tries to get Aroden's attention it's not out of respect or admiration, it's because he wants to beat the crap out of Aroden and prove himself superior. It IS very anime, but more in the way Cell was to Goku...

i'm running Tyrant's Grasp and while I won't talk about it here, let's just say that I've interpreted Tar-Baphon slightly differently.

But yes, the 'i want to be the biggest dog' is clearly one way to look at old Barphy.

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i actually like Bachuan.

maybe it's because i would run it like any other place, just with a crazy ruler, but i like the Kim-dynasty-inspired disaster realm.

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Do you have a particular theme in mind for a game you'd want to run? That's the most important thing.

As a DM, you can always tell players to stop some activity if they've gotten out of hand.

But for a "Wilderness" AP, where there's an enormous sense of urgency, I'd probably recommend Tyrant's Grasp [running it now, and we are in the middle of Book 4 and it's been just 7 weeks in-game], Ironfang Invasion [you can dictate pressure using the Legion's attacks to drive the action], Giantslayer [it's kind of a weaker AP, however], or Hell's Rebels [it's urban, but as the rebellion, you can push them with the oppressor's responses].

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Congratulations! What were some highlights?

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more importantly, players should not have the Frost Maw, roar class.

It is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS to my poor space monsters.

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we just concluded a certain fight in book 6... kinda fun to have the 90 % there rebuild of a SRO... gave it blue screen of death eyes

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spectrevk wrote:
That sounds fair - so he'd have a +26 to the roll, rather than a DC of 26. That's also a good middle ground between the two options for +24 or +30.

yeah, a DC of 26 would be way, way too low v. level 12 PCs.

and the text of the spell clearly has the singularity acting w/ an attack roll. probably just an error - most spells have DCs, not attack rolls.

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The Raven Black wrote:

The Priorities table (a great concept from the start) feels better than the first one we had in the OoA PG, including being more consistent with the text. I need to dive into it to make a proper assessment.

Good to see that Paizo keeps on improving their products.

it's a really good idea. especially for players who are a) unfamiliar with the game or b) are going to ignore the text in favor of an old character concept they haven't gotten to play with.

Nice and simple. One look.

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spectrevk wrote:

I'm wondering about one of Zaxo's spells - his 1/day Gravitational Singularity. The book lists it with a DC of 26, but this makes no sense, as the spell has no saving throw. Instead, the singularity makes a combat maneuver with a bonus of 4 + caster level + key ability modifier. This is confusing because we don't know what Zaxo's key ability modifier is.

It's a Mystic spell, so if we assume it's Wisdom, his bonus is +24.

His highest bonus is his Intelligence at +10, so if we use that it's a +30.

Any idea which is correct?

i would go w/ the text of the boss - so its a 26. Zaxo appears to be a mystic, btw.

There's a couple of errors vis a vis the rules with some of the built creatures - I'm thinking about the cybernetic golem in book 4. I told my players when they encountered it that the creature has an error, but that the error is cool, and I would be using it despite the fact that it broke the rules in a minor way.

They were fine with it.

He's the boss at the end. He should be tough, and they aren't going to know anyway.

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Dargoth876 wrote:
Yakman wrote:
i guess we are about 5 sessions from completing the AP... very excited. i have some ideas about homebrewing the cycle of encounters before the end to make them a little more tense, and then probably going to run the last part as is, although i should probably spend a bit of time re-reading it...
I'm curious, is your elected board ends up cannon or is there any changes? For my team the Kasatha was replaced by Uvali Rycast.

i haven't decided how it's going to end yet. but I'll let you know when we end in September (fingers crossed!)

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guess i should be watching She-Ra...

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Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

Considering that roads are not fully drawn on even the individual nation maps, it seems unlikely. Or at least I assume that ley lines would require a similar density as roads or rivers to have any real presence in a game.

I know Carrion Crown book 6 brings up the confluence of ley lines in Virlych, but it doesn't specify where exactly they run

huh... the confluence of ley lines in Virlych is a major part of the plot in my Tyrant's Grasp campaign... and I never read Carrion Crown!

weird.

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keftiu wrote:
Gisher wrote:
I've always been suspicious that the Starstone has its own nefarious agenda. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that it caused the death of Aroden by taking its power back at a crucial moment. Perhaps it needed prophecy to fail in order to break free of its own destiny.

How nefarious could it be? 2/3 gods it helped ascend are Good.

do crusades fail? are hangovers still real? are thieves caught?

being a god doesn't mean anything in Golarian. Possibly, the Starstone ascended Norgorber, Caiden, and Iomedae to keep them out of the picture... maybe it does that for all the potentials, luring them to their deaths in order to pull the strings on some aeons long plot... it gives away trinkets of divinity to keep up the ruse...

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
The "what exactly happened to Aroden" is reportedly the lynchpin of the whole tension of the setting, which is why they will never reveal exactly what happened. But I would not be surprised if it involves the Starstone, Tar-Baphon, and Pharasma.

My private pet theory is that Erastil realized what the long game of Aroden was and slaughtered him to prevent a climate apocalypse.

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-relics of the forgotten runelords

-more on these new, self-proclaimed runelords

-hints about what the fate of the heroes of the sihedron might have been, and what might be the lingering impacts of Sorshen's failed time plot?

-shoanti stuff

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just used one of the monsters in my THREEFOLD CONSPIRACY game.

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Leon Aquilla wrote:
I gotta also add - I edited this into my review - the AP tie-ins are hamfisted. Fly Free Or Die (the one it should tie-in with the best) just kinda falls flat on its face and doesn't even mention one of the biggest challenges of the AP series ** spoiler omitted **

I really didn't understand how THREEFOLD was any different. but I am going to run ATTACK as presented here.

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they look fantastic!

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GM Cthulhu wrote:

I'm going to start GMing this one soon. I've already got the modules and will be getting the pawn pack soon.

Is the map folio necessary? I ask because I'm just finishing GMing Strange Aeons and, while the Thrushmoor map was great, the maps of Ustalav and Neruzavin were almost useless as a GM.

no.

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John and KARSG!!! wrote:
I saw the new "Lightyear" trailer yesterday and it had me thinking, "What if Buzz was in Starfinder? How would you play him?" So here I am, asking your opinion.

Buzz is an Icon Human Operative (Gadgeteer)

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i guess we are about 5 sessions from completing the AP... very excited. i have some ideas about homebrewing the cycle of encounters before the end to make them a little more tense, and then probably going to run the last part as is, although i should probably spend a bit of time re-reading it...

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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Besides, the idea of the marriage between Elanna Lebeda and Noleski Surtova making peace easier in Brevoy doesn't really work in the context of the Issia/Rostland divide, because it isn't very clear what side of that divide the Lebedas actually fall under in terms of origin: Rostland was ruled by the Aldori Swordlords and they primarily take "Aldori" as their surname when swearing the Swordpact, and they're infamous for their stubborn pride, so if the Lebedas ARE ethnically Rostlanders, the Swordlords wouldn't respect their authority or worse, may consider them traitors for kissing up to Issians and trying to advance in the heirarchy of Brevoy instead of helping break it back up into Issia and Rostland. Otherwise, the Lebedas are just Issians and therefore just more oppressors marrying other oppressors.

Can you tell the particulars of this plot hook have bugged me for a while? :P

nah... can you explain further?

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Metaphysician wrote:

Its certainly possible, though the way Absalom Station is described it definitely feels "organic" to me, like it was a place that was actually built and populated over time, rather than in a singular instance of godlike exertion. I suspect it predated the end of the Gap and whatever event caused it; even if Golarion's disappearance was part of this, Absalom Station could have easily been a station in orbit around Golarion or such.

As for calculating the minimum length of the Gap, honestly, I think the closest thing to a good method is to look at social and technological change. The last known point prior to the Gap is the Pathfinder era on Golarion, which is roughly the equivalent of the late renaissance/early modern era on Earth ( 15th century give or take ). Immediately after the Gap, the spaceborn society clearly derived from Golarion is a mature space based society with full access to the entire solar system, and limited access to FTL travel. Obviously, we don't know how long that would "actually" take, but based on various fictional precedents, calling that a thousand years of change seems a good guestimate. Sure, it could be lower ( due to unusually fast technical advancement, maybe from preexisting advanced societies or interventionist gods ), or it could be higher ( due to bouts of medieval stasis or disruptive apocalypses ), but its at least a decent starting point.

remember though that in PF Golarion has essentially been at the same level of technology for like, 3000 years.

nothing Paizo likes longer than an extraordinarily long timeline [I condense my post-Gap timeline to just a century, rather than the 300 in the canon].

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