William Ronald's page

The Raven Black wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

One thing I've said before that I especially like with the mythological inconsistencies is that you're not bound to pick only one myth that's "true". Like, Windsong talks like each of the first gods sprang fully formed, but it's not important to the myth to highlight how exactly each appeared, so maybe Asmodeus' account us accurate about each of them forming out of motes of light, and at one point Sarenrae was both one of the first eight but the first eight were also just a bunch of demigods for the first thousand years while they grew in power.

Meanwhile, that Asmodeus formed in tandem with Hell doesn't necessarily preclude the story that he much later 'discovered' Hell filled with asura and conquered it for his own devices one day while having a disagreement with his brother that even later capitulated into him taking a host of angels with him to become the first devils.

This is 100% exactly the point. Pick the one that works best for you and run with it!

That said, it DOES get tricky when the one picking the one that works best is, say, me, and I'm picking it because I'm developing or writing an adventure that's based on some of that mythology. That sort of thing does, in time, start to lend facts to the mythology, but... that's I guess part of the cost of publishing stuff that builds on previously published stuff.

If the fate of the drow has shown us anything, it's that even stuff published in adventures isn't set in stone.

I think (and hope) Paizo being forced to do this will be a once in a lifetime event.

It's the third time Paizo has had to do a big shift as a result of being dependent on another company, and in the grand scheme of things was the simplest one to pull off (the other two being losing the Dragon and Dungeon magazine licenses resulting in the creation of the Pathfinder brand and Pathfinder Adventure Path, and 4th edition not being friendly to the...

Let's hope that the third time is the charm.

I remember reading the posts that James Jacobs wrote which dealt with having to eliminate OGL creatures and concepts, especially the drow. This was not easy for him or others at Paizo. (Apparently, something will be done with the drow in Starfinder, but that is a different continuity. Perhaps the results of that can feed back into Pathfinder. The problem is creating a group of "dark elves" - a very old concept in some cultures on our world, such as the Norse culture - that does not look like something that a certain company to be named cannot have their lawyers file a lawsuit over and have the threat of a lawsuit bring Paizo to a grinding halt.)

Fortunately, I see my players and GMs liking the changes in the Remaster. Also, it seems that there will be ample opportunities for players to have their characters experience the impact of the War of the Immortals and shape events. I look forward to not only the books and adventures, but hearing how people are interacting with the events of the Godsrain and beyond.

Will The First Blade be stepping up as Gorum’s “inheritor”? Will it be available to select as a deity in lieu of its former lord?

I imagine that there will be some hints as to where the worshippers of Gorum will go.

In Osirion, the Osiriani goddess Sekhmet might be a good option. I played with someone who had a war priest of the Lady of Slaughter. Ragathiel and some empyreal lords might gain worshippers. Similarly, some may turn to Calistria for the sake of vengeance.

Thank you to all the amazing women (as well as everyone period) at Paizo who have contributed to our hobby.

As a GM, I concur with the points that Caryn DiMarco and Sasha Lorvana Harving make about inclusivity. I try to make my tables welcome to everyone, as we can benefit from the diverse views and experiences of others.

Thank you for sharing your stories and all of your hard work. I look forward to seeing your future contributions to our hobby.

Kobold Catgirl wrote:

Starfinder is a separate continuity, so it's not relevant here in terms of what's happening in Pathfinder. :)

Is that still the case with Starfinder 2nd Edition?

As for my reasoning for Torag, is the number of clues dropped by Luis that point toward him, and the OGL fiasco. Even though the OGL had no bearing on who it would be. However, those clues could be discussion generators rather than pointing to the god who will pass on.

Hmm, looking over the Core 20, the god with the most narrative impact and has a direct connection to D&D is Asmodeus.

Perhaps, Sarenrae does the unthinkable and kills him? This would check off three boxes: Kill a major god that has narrative and thematic weight, possibly alter the Prismatic Ray in some form, and fulfill the removal of OGL ties.

I hope that it is Asmodeus who dies. He has been steadily elevated since D&D's earliest days to move from being the chief of archdevils to a greater god. (He is not that impressive in the original work that he appears in, the Book of Tophit. I suspect that E. Gary Gygax put him at the top of the hierarchy of Hell as he was more obscure than some other figures.) He is tied into D&D's lore and removing him would sever ties. It would also (pun intended) create a hell of a situation with Cheliax as some infernal pacts would be negated, and there would be struggles in the nation that could lead to civil war or a lot of turmoil. Who would come out on top in the hierarchies of Hell, and what would the death of Asmodeus (perhaps by a known god or by unknown forces) mean for Cheliax, the Hellknights, and others? Would Rahadoum be emboldened to reclaim its lost territory and decry the followers of deities? Or would their moves backfire horribly on them? There are many narrative possibilities, so I hope that the decision that Paizo makes leads to many interesting narrative possibilities where characters - whether in Organized Play or elsewhere - will have chances to help shape what comes in the aftermath of the death of a god. It should be impactful, as Aroden's death was. For now, I expect that many are eagerly waiting future entries in this series.

Other deities will be impacted as well. Perhaps Torag -- assuming that he survives - will change further. Perhaps the loss of a fellow deity will bring the members of the Prismatic Ray closer. Perhaps Zon-Kuthon will make more overtures into Cheliax. Or others might step up as patrons to Cheliax. (Set comes to mind and this may create a rivalry between Cheliax and Osirion.) The future is uncertain, and Golarion may be in more need of heroes than it has in a very long time.

Welcome!!!

Pathfinder Second Edition now allows players to choose floating bonuses rather than traditional penalties for ancestries. (For example, a player creating an elf character can instead of taking a bonus to intelligence, a bonus to dexterity, a free attribute boost, and a penalty to constitution can instead opt to take a bonus to any two ability scores, much like a human character.)

Will this apply to Pathfinder Second Edition?

Skittermanders will be in the Starfinder Playtest Rulebook!!!!

Regardless of class, your preexisting characters will remain valid. You have the option to make changes using the Remaster rules.

The Player Core and the GM Core will be part of the Core assumption. So, Archives of Nethys is a valid option for players to use for any character from the Core Rulebook or the Player Core.

Paizo could have gone the route of making the new rules a completely new edition or calling it such. It may have even helped sales. However, I think it is comforting that you can change or not change your characters as you desire.

A year ago, none of us dreamed of the OGL debacle or the Remaster. I think that there has been a great deal of effort to make this as smooth a transition as possible. Paizo will not hire a private police force to demand you turn in your old books.

Thank you for sharing. It is important that we learn each other's stories in order to try to understand and appreciate each other.

Also, I hope to see Paizo take time to develop Arcadia. (I wonder what the Mahwek and others native to that continent in Golarion call it.)

As a Jewish gamer, I am pleased to see how members of my faith and community have helped contribute to gaming. Let me wish everyone L'shanah tovah!!! G'mar chatimah tovah!!!! (A Happy New Year!!! May you be sealed for a good year!!!!)

Dragon Nexus Games wrote:

13th century mythology is public domain like the Bible is. You don't need to be a lawyer. The description of drows used by TSR / WotC is public domain. D&D's drow is essentially, the Dökkálfar as written and described in Prose Edda.

So I'm confused, do you think Paizos lawyers are just bad at their job then? Because you, not a lawyer, are saying with absolute certainty the opposite of what Paizo has been advised. Generally, I feel that most people, when seeking actual, real legal advice are probably advised to listen to actual, real lawyers and not people whose companies have gone into administrative dissolution just to throw out a random entirely unrelated example, maybe that's just me though.

Having read the Eddas, I don't recall the Dökkálfar as being clad in leather, ruled by matriarchs, devoted to evil powers, and being utterly immoral and evil. (The physical appearance is something that you cannot copyright, as have seen with Dark Elves in other companies. Anything resembling what WoTC did.... that is another story.) WoTC took time to craft something off of a concept in the Eddas and Paizo will create something different with the inhabitants of Apostae. Perhaps one day, some will make their way to Golarion in another era.

However, keeping anything far from WotC's intellectual property is a good idea. Even if Paizo or another company did something that WotC could claim as a copyright infringement, the threat of a lawsuit is nothing anyone wants. (Indeed, some companies can file suits to bankrupt their competitors who have fewer resources. As the inhabitants of Apostae might say, money is power and might makes right.)

Technically, I got the info I needed from Thurston. The exact details we don't need to go into anyway. The drows aren't being removed. Maybe renamed if necessary but not going away. So if they aren't extinct then it won't be an issue for what I am working on in the details. Going over canon details from the PF and SF core books and all... so things will playout just fine.

I figured that they were doing something with Apostae. Making the inhabitants more corporate will separate them further from someone else's intellectual property.

I look forward to the changes. Perhaps there will be more flexibility for companies with future Starfinder products. (Hmm, would having a disreputable mercenary force that is an anagram of Pinkerton be protected parody?)

Dragon Nexus Games wrote:

MaxAstro wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

And doing so with previously published third party products for Pathfinder and Starfinder would do wonders more in helping you get your foot in the door than sending a reply to Thurston offering to sign an vague NDA.

Also, if I can offer some unsolicited advice: Asking for an NDA like that screams "I'm an amateur". It does not present the level of professionalism you are looking for.

Novice writers are forever worried about people "stealing their ideas". Experienced writers know that ideas literally aren't worth the paper they are written on; only execution has value. No one is going to steal your ideas, no one wants to steal your ideas, and publicly worrying about your ideas being stolen really just marks you as inexperienced.

People steal ideas every day, literally. If they take your unpublished work and register it before you, your screwed even if you may have wrote it unless you are deep pocket person or corporation. It happens every single day. You'll have to spend well over $10,000, easily over $100,000 in lawyers and court fees with just a maybe you might win but could still lose.

Yes, I have a number of stuff on this project I'm working on that is not published yet and not registered because its not finished and complete. I'm sure they have reasonable concern for keeping wraps stuff that is WIP.

In addition, there is this thing called private messaging. Is there some reason that is not being used at all? Is it broken?

If ideas had absolutely no value, there would not be copyright laws. Yes, execution matters but someone can steal your WIP near completion, and register it before you and they market it. They get the money, the credit, and IP rights and you don't. Rich people and businesses without any creative bone in their body has gotten away with that for over a century and still do.

It's not just "novice writers". It's also experienced writers who don't have a lot...

I imagine that many of the people you might wish to contact are at GenCon and have limited time to be online. Perhaps try to reach out to people privately after the convention and see if you can establish a working professional relationship. (Writing something for Organized Play has helped some people move on to bigger projects.) It takes time to establish a relationship, professional or otherwise.

Thurston Hillman wrote:

Sigh.

The cantina is not closing. The sky is not falling.

Not even for holidays? It might be time to start a bartenders union. "Skittermander time to change your protest signs."

My hope is that we will see more species/ancestries. Fortunately, there is time for a lot of work on this.

Thanks, keftiu and Evan Tarlson!!!!

Will the panels that some employers are participating in be available on YouTube after Gen Con? They sound very interesting as well.

If this is what it takes for Starfinder brand to survive then so be it but I am not thrilled by having the setting be a subsystem of PF2e because then it may well become Pathfinder in SPAAAACCEEE rather than its own distinct brand. Still, on the optimistic side, making Starfinder 2E compatible with PF2e can open doors for cross-play, broader story arcs, and a unified player base. Time will tell.

Perhaps the leadership at Paizo has a concern that too many systems can be a problem. This was one of the problems that TSR faced. I highly recommend reading Ryan Dancey's letter on The Death of TSR is well worth a read.

The OGL debacle may have pushed up the timetable for Starfinder Second Edition. I will feel a bit more comfortable if everything is under the ORC license.

Starfinders point buy system decoupled from class and only tangentally related to theme gave builds a lot of freedom. Pathfinder 2's tight math combined with racial and class based "boosts" means you just wind up being worse if you don't go with the stereotype.

An errata for the Pathfinder Core Rulebook printing in January allows players to take two free-floating bonuses for an ancestry. So, you may be able to have a shirren with and 18 charaisma working with an elven soldier with an 18 con.

I thought I would start a thread where we can share our wishes and concerns for Starfinder Second Editio and the playtest.

Let me share my Starfinder experience. I am a venture agent in Paizo's Organized Play. I have run my mystic shirren Vir Kah'to to 5th level. I GMed the Starfinder mod for Free RPG Day last year. (I struggled with starship combat and even as a player find it less than intuitive.)

My hope is not just for a better starship combat system, but for a game system that will attract more players. We had some SFS games at the shop that I am active in, but they stopped. We had only two regular players. I also want a system that is easier to learn and GM.

So, who are you and what do you want? (To paraphrase Lorien from Babylon 5.)

Milo v3 wrote:

As a person who liked starfinder, finding out it's going to just be a supplement line for PF2e is abit disappointing. Since 1 to 1 compatibility just means the game will have loads of things from Pathfinder that don't mesh with the game's pitch, just because it is in Pathfinder.

At least the old books wont be going anywhere, but I was hoping when a SF 2e happened that it'd be an evolution of Starfinder.

That is a fair point, though from taking a look at the Soldier playtest the team seems to be willing to take a look at design spaces outside of what PF2E did thus far. The introduction of new conditions also bodes well for making the system work.

I do think Paizo's decision is healthier from a company standpoint though, and as someone who likes Starfinder for the setting and the writing that has been done for it, I am glad that this opens up more resources for that.

Paizo's leadership no doubts remembers the problems that TSR had in having so many games with different systems. I recommend reading Ryan Dancey's letter on the death of TSR. I believe it should be mandatory reading for business courses.

Can we have boons for rare languages, like Ancient Osiriani? This might be good for characters who are linguists/diplomats or have a background that relates to a rare language -- such as a duskwalker whose previous life was in Ancient Osirion and now finds himself in an unfamilar time and body? Or someone whose traditions relate to an ancient culture might want to study the language.

I would like to thank the authors for sharing their stories and the stories of their characters.

So far, I have known three people who have transitioned - including one who was a regular at my gaming table. The key thing that everyone wants is respect, support, and understanding. Somehow, despite all the troubles of our time, I think that future generations will see it for all people.

Thank you for posting this.

May we continue to strive to respect and understand each other.

Happy Pride Month!!! Thank all of you for sharing your stories. My hope is that sharing your stories will help others on their journeys.

It may be possible to introduce a version of Starfinder's "dark Elves" to Golarion but they have to be created first and introduced, or reintroduced. Perhaps the new version had a base here and there on Golarion if they came from elsewhere.

However, Paizo, Kobold Press, and others are acting NOW to separate themselves from the OGL. I suspect it is not a conspiracy to honk off some gamers, but rather fear of legal action but a MULTI-BILLION dollar corporation. So, somethings have to be changed.

The drow are problematic as they still resemble those of Dungeons and Dragons closely. Someone asked why they weren't changed with Pathfinder Second Edition. First, there was no need as the OGL was considered to be an inviolable document that could not be revoked and the thought of threats to revoke it were not considered by Paizo or others. Secondly, changing the drow rapidly would likely result in something that might not only fail to meet legal muster to avoid potential lawsuits but would be a rush job. Thirdly, Paizo (and others) have bigger things to consider.

While drow have appeared in some APs and even some Pathfinder Society first edition products they do not figure as prominently as they do in the Forgotten Realms. Show Hasbro a drow that is very like their intellectual property, and expect a lawsuit. There are questions if companies the size of Paizo could survive the lead-up to a court decision in a lawsuit. So, it is better to avoid anything that even remotely appears to be like the drow of old.

Long ago, I learned that you can't please everyone. This is going to be the case with the remaster. However, the events of the past few months have made a remaster necessary for Pathfinder Second Edition and led Kobold Press to hurry up their work on their own system. The irrevocable agreement has been threatened with revocation and the backtracking by Hasbro may just be a temporary measure. In a sense, creating anything under the OGL has become much like playing in a rigged game. The best thing to do under such circumstances is to move on and walk away, even if it is painful to people. Obviously, it is painful to some gamers and even game designers. Sometimes, I think that we forget that there are other people on the other end of the keyboard. Let's try to respect each other and have compassion for each other.

The third version of the AxE says that you can put CC-BY-licensed material into a product released under the ORC license.

If so, I'm really puzzled as to why Paizo isn't just helping itself to chromatic dragons, glabrezu, duergar, aboleths, alignment, drow, etc, etc, just by releasing a new version of PF under an ORC license that uses elements of SRD 5.1 under its CC-BY license, rather than doing this huge expunging project. Their own lawyers seem to say that's okay.

Even if Paizo might have solid legal ground to do so, Hasbro could still drag them through an expensive legal process. There has been some discussion about drow in particular in the Pathfinder General Discussion forum.

This post form James Jacobs may help explain some of Paizo's reasoning: James Jacobs on Paizo's history with the drow.

@ especially in Against the Giants and the Spider Queen series, they were an unknown foe (even if hints were placed in some versions of the Slave Lords modules/compilation).

I don't think you can easily reinvent the drow into something people will accept as a good replacement for the drow of old. The Starfinder team has their work cut out for them to deal with drow in that setting, as Starfinder will ultimately go under the ORC license. I don't think anything can be done in the near future. Even then, Hasbro could still take legal action against drow in a fantasy setting. It doesn't matter if they win. They may tie up enough resources to make Paizo or any other company go bankrupt before a court can rule on whether there was an infringement of Hasbro's intellectual property.

Having played the Slave Lords, the Giant Series, Descent into the Depths of the Earth, and Queen of the Demon Web Pits, I found the drow to be very scary villains. Not only were they powerful, one could not reason with them as they were convinced of their own superiority. The Sekmin can easily fill the role of powerful, implacable enemies without making Hasbro call their lawyers.

James Jacobs wrote:

Jacob Jett wrote:

Indirectly related, but does anyone know if Xulgath are getting the boot? I'm asking because Palladium Fantasy has had Troglodytes since well before the OGL and SRD were even faint glimmers in anyone's brain.

They aren't. Unlike drow, which have an extensive history being built up to things that folks adore by D&D over decades, troglodytes haven't.

Furthermore, by calling them xulgath (a name I invented for lizard people in my homebrew back in the late 80s, and that I transitioned over to Pathfinder to be the ancestral name for the creatures we once called troglodytes in previous editions), and by building up our own different lore about them, and by giving them a different coloration and look, what we call a xulgath and what WotC calls a troglodyte are not really the same thing anymore.

At this time in Pathfinder, if we call something a troglodyte, we would simply be using the word in the context of its real-world definition, not as an underground lizard person. And since so many gamers have been conditioned to assume that's what a fantasy TTRPG means when they use the word troglodyte... we'll likely just avoid using the word entirely just to not confuse folks.

If we'd done the same thing to drow, and had started that ages ago, and if there wasn't decades of pre-existing fandom for this exact combination of elements in an underground-dwelling evil elf society... perhaps we'd be in a different spot today. We are not in that spot.

In time, the work we put in to drow to begin the process of transitioning them away from the D&D tropes that most gamers want and adore and that we don't want to pursue in a non-OGL product (for example, underground elves who worship proteans) may well be transposed onto the cavern elves (an element that, at this point, is VERY underdeveloped and in current print exists only as a way to give your elf PC darkvision), but that'll be something we

...

I am sure that Paizo could do something with an entirely different sort of creature. The drow were made to be overly powerful, but as a student of literature and history, I do not recall the dark elves of the Eddas resembling the drow in significant ways. Nor do I seem to recall running across anything that looked like and worked like the drow in Orlando Furioso or The Faerie Queen.

Maybe some sort of evil fey might work, but anything that is too close to the traditional portrayal of drow probably will be a call for legal action from Hasbro. Even the threat of legal action by a huge corporation would be enough to tie up the resources of publishers the size of Paizo or Kobold Press.

Inarea wrote:

Will be interesting long term how devesting DnD analogies will impact the recent converts from wotc latest "screwups". A big selling point was "it's DnD but better rules and company".

I'd be more concerned about the remaster existing at all. I have already heard complaints from folks angry they bought a bunch of books that they feel will be rendered useless in less than a year. I think scrapping DnD iconography won't really be noticed much at all, other than some folks really obsessed with certain options like Drow.

All existing books are usable and will be so. If you want the remaster material, there will be a FREE download updating the changes.

It isn't like Paizo, Kobold Press, and other companies really wanted to upend their product schedules by having to make major changes to avoid potential legal action.

As for some of the lore, well I gave up beholders and illithid when I went to Pathfinder First Edition.

Pronate11 wrote:

Jacob Jett wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Paizo's original top management (and owners) identified early on that supporting concurrent settings that were cannibalizing each other was one of the pitfalls they had to absolutely avoid.

I do not think they will change this stance.

Weird. It's not a bug in D&D and they don't cannibalize each other a bit (and never did)...

Have you seen what's happened with all the latest DND setting releases? Do you really want Paizo to release their own 5e Spelljammer? Or Strikshaven? Or literally any of their other setting books?

I've been hoping for a pf2e spelljammer equivalent so much. That would be awesome and a lot better of a product I'm sure.

I would recommend Starfinder. It already fits the Pathfinder in space feel.

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Inarea wrote:

Will be interesting long term how devesting DnD analogies will impact the recent converts from wotc latest "screwups". A big selling point was "it's DnD but better rules and company".

Sure, I'll remind you of this post in five years or so, I hope you'll be around to respond.

Probably not. This is probably the one decision that could have got me to switch systems. Been beating the drum to get my friends to join me in pf2e, dutifully buying all the hard bound products since the core came out, even if they didn't interest me, because I was "supporting the product" waiting for the day it would be the underdark's time.

If I'm not egging my friend group on to Pf2e we'll probably be back to 5e or maaaybe pf1e.

We will have a clear idea in November and some previews before then. Remember, you can have anything at your own table.

I imagine that once the remaster comes out, someone will work up a version of drow for people to use at home. They should be fine so long as they don't make a penny off of it.

Scott Henry wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Scott Henry wrote:

I thought drow actually still existed in Pathfinder, they just aren't doing new stories about them? How do we know this won't happen to other races though, like say Tieflings?

That's literally what all these conversations going on are about.

Also Tiefling are "going away", the name is gone and they're rolled into Nephilim with the other Planar Scions.

So they still exist, just under a different name? I don't want to see Tieflings go away completely. Change the name? Fine. Can't play a demon looking person anymore? Not fine.

Can ABSOLUTELY play a demonblooded/descended/looking person.

Just can't call them Tieflings.

Heck, you can even play a demonblooded/descended cavern elf or a fleshwarped cavern elf.

Scott Henry wrote:

I thought drow actually still existed in Pathfinder, they just aren't doing new stories about them?

That's exactly right.

Quote:

How do we know this won't happen to other races though, like say Tieflings?

In the future, Paizo (and other companies) will be publishing their material under the ORC license. Unlike the OGL, which is controlled by Hasbro/WotC, the ORC license will be controlled by a non-profit. It has also been deliberately written to prevent any company from suddenly threatening to terminate the license.

So, once the four primary Paizo rules books (Player Core 1, Game Master Core, Monster Core, Player Core 2) have been published, all the changes will have worked their way through the publishing process. There won't be any ancestries left that have any connection to Hasbro.

After that, it can't happen with other ancestries, because there will be a very clear separation between what is Paizo's intellectual property (other people can't use it without specific permission from Paizo) and the Open RPG Creative material that anyone is free to use.

It will take a couple years, but going forward, no one will be able to threaten ttRPG companies with expensive lawsuits for using publicly shared materials.

Also, nothing is preventing GMs and players from using whatever they wish at their tables.

I think we will see a lot more creativity from Paizo, Kobold Press, and others because they can no longer harken back to anything produced under the OGL. I will miss what goes, but I would rather see Paizo and Kobold Press offering new products than fighting for their existence in court.

Fallenath wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Since Ancestries are not as loaded with stuff as races used to be (i.e. you're not getting a bunch of SLAs at low levels anymore). It shouldn't be too hard for people who are so inclined. All you need is the base array of move speed, attribute bonuses/penalties, vision, and any special things (light sensitivity?), then some heritages, and some feats. There's enough other ancestries out there that you can use for a model for "what effects are reasonable for a heritage or feat at a given level."

As for whether Second Darkness is still canon, I think "there used to be Drow, but they disappeared under mysterious circumstances" is a more interesting plot thread, but I understand why Paizo wouldn't want to commit to it.

tbh Im starting to feel a lot of these changes are more them airing out their grievances with a lot of innate dnd things, and trying to make pathfinders IP "their own", and are using the OGL thing as a excuse(that doesnt really hold up well) Like makign up a bunch of dark elves isnt hard or conflicting at all, its a lose idea wotc even without the OGL cant really sue you over it.

The reality is i get they want their own entire ip to be unique and distinct, but at this point you have to realize you built 2 games built on this foundation and the more you try to push again that the more issues you will make.

I think its time to face a harsher reality, which is that.

Its time for PF3e and its time for Golarion in general to go, or be entirely rebooted.

The writers clearly disagree with you, and claiming they're lying about their motivations is really uncharitable.

When a game company is talking to its lawyers about someone else's intellectual property and how to avoid legal action, they are in a position where making changes to avoid a lawsuit. Based on what I have seen, I see no evidence that they are lying about their motivations. Rather, I have seen people post about how hard it was to make difficult decisions. I do not envy anyone right now who has made anything with the OGL. They have to figure out how to move forward when Hasbro could come back and decide to take action against them. We have to remember that the people in these companies have lives and livelihoods, and have to decide what is best not just for their companies but for themselves.

Before the OGL controversy, Paizo was considering how to present its products. Now, Paizo, Kobold Press. and other companies are working on games and products that move away from the OGL. Realistically, none of them want to tie up their resources in a potential legal battle.

I will miss the drow as I have played with people who had drow characters as far back as AD&D First Edition. However, I have faith that James Jacobs and other developers are trying to make the best of a situation that they did not imagine happening less than a year ago.

All they had to do was state how the drow left the planet to the planet they control in Starfinder, then add a reason why and make that the new big enemy in the Darklands.

That's it, nobody can claim that WotC has ownership of evil space elves, else they should delete normal elves which are also space elves. Getting rid of them wholesale is the worst option.

Perhaps. However, they could argue that they do have ownership of the evil elves who look like their intellectual property, live in matriarchal societies, and worship demons. Even if Hasbro lost in court, the threat of legal action could be enough to greatly harm Paizo.

Cori Marie wrote:

Sekmin are snakefolk

I'm more disappointed they aren't called Snekmin than anything.

What a missed opportunity to capitalize on, Paizo.

They may be trying to limit abuse of Power Word: Pun.

On a more serious note, there are a lot of ways to make the Sekmin into great villains. Perhaps even a few of them impersonated creatures from another world to deceive some of their enemies.

The Lore team will be working extra hard. Perhaps there was a small group of cavern elves that broke bad that someone mistook for drow. However, home games are safe. My advice is to start with the cavern elf ancestry and see what other ancestries might work to give your home campaign something that works for drow in hour campaign.

I will miss the drow, but I understand the issues that James Jacobs and others raised. My hope is that we will see several interesting Darklands societies. Maybe there might even be a cavern elf city with different factions, some good, some not so good.

From looking at the lore, Pathfinder Drow do not seem to be very different from their Dungeons and Dragons counterparts. Also, the drow are a major component of WoTC adventures, books, and miniatures. So, the ambiguity makes it easier for WoTC to claim copyright infringement. Pathfinder drow do not follow an evil spider demon-goddess but still are matriarchal evil societies with many demon worshippers. Many of the abilities are the same, and changing the Pathfinder drow into something that a copyright lawyer would be comfortable defending might be well-nigh impossible.

I imagine that some of the conversations between Paizo people and the attorneys might have gone something like this:

Paizo Person: "We need to change Pathfinder drow if we keep them. What about having them follow the old ones and have staves that have tentacles?"

Attorney: "That was fun for Vault of the Drow in the 1970s."

Paiso Person: "How about making them imperialistic greedy people. Wait, we are doing that for the revamp of the duergar, who are less problematic."

Attorney: "Cavern elves are okay. The Norse version was not particularly evil. Part of the problem is making an evil elven race a major villain -- which is a major WoTC theme."

Paizo Person: "We could make them concerned with following deities of earth, wealth, and trade. Wait, that might tip them towards neutrality and worship of deities like Gozreh and Abadar."

I think that a lot of thought went into the decision not to do anything more with the drow. The legal risks are high. Changing the drow into something different and still keep their role as a major adversary would be a hard task . Worse, it might prompt Hasbro/WoTC to sue. Even if Hasbro/WotC lost the legal battle, Paizo might not want to have a legal fight with a multi-billion dollar corporation that has attempted to repeal the OGL.

So, my hope is that cavern elves can be made into something interesting. There is no reason why you can't have a character that is a cavern elf (maybe with something else thrown in) who looks a lot like the Pathfinder drow. (I imagine that there will be a variety of colors of skin and hair just as there are in human populations as well as many cultural groups. Perhaps one even has a story of cavern elves who went very bad.)

Before Drizzt Do'Urden appeared, drow were still a bit part of WoTC intellectual property. (Drizzt is an example of going against type, which I saw with a mother and daughter who had neutrally aligned drow priestess of a nature goddess who helped take over a trade city. Regardless of what option players or authors chose, there is a longstanding canon of drow in D&D generally being evil demon worshippers and most players and authors try to have characters that oppose such societies) I suspect that the best legal advice that Paizo got was to move on from the drow. Paizo is giving up the drow to the company that originated them, and would likely sue over them. If I have to choose between h Pathfinder and no drow, or having Pathfinder with drow and the likelihood of threats of legal action. I choose the first option. So would anyone who would want Paizo and Pathfinder to be going concerns.

Perhaps Paizo can do an upcoming preview of the elves with an emphasis on cavern elves. As for Darklands villains, serpent folk that harken back to H.P. Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard will not likely cause a harshly worded letter from Hasbro's attorneys.

Full list.
Current list of repeatable scenarios is:
Tier 1: 2-11, Beginner's Box
Tier 1-2: Intros 1 & 2
Tier 1-4: Q1, Q4, 1-01, 1-06, 1-10, 1-14, 3-01, 4-01
Tier 3-6: Q9, 1-23, 2-06, 3-13
+ All bounties (tiers 1 and tiers 3)
Multi-table specials
2-00 (tiers 1-2, 3-6, & 7-8, once each tier)
3-99 (tiers 1-4, & 5-8, once each tier)
3-98 (tiers 1-4, & 3-6, can be played twice & each playthrough can be in any tier)

Please update as needed

I do like how you don't have to dedicate a page or two to reference the ORC like the OGL you have to. It is like a little box you have to have to indicate that it uses the ORC.

It will allow more room for gaming content.

Huh. This can't be a draft, it has the words "Draft Only Feedback Requested" written across it and was submitted for feedback before people were asked to commit to it.

If WoTC taught me anything, it taught me this isn't how drafts work.

/Snark

Perhaps WotC has people who believe that the word draft refers to requiring someone to serve under your terms, much like someone drafted by the military. /snark.

This is good news and I understand the need for precision. I was a reporter, and I know that the language of a contract or law can be vital for its understanding and implementation.

One thing that we should remember is that there is feedback on the draft. Obviously, feedback will shape the license.

I would also like to support this. It does allow a lot of options for outlets with limited time. So, maybe a VO could run a regular-length scenario and a quest for venues where two regular-length scenarios will not work.

PF Unchained and PF2 were four years apart. Why would Starfinder Enhanced suggest anything more sudden than that? If I had a new edition planned, I wouldn't bother putting out a half-update right before.

This is a logical assumption. There are some options that I am looking forward to in Starfinder Enhanced, particularly the narrative starship combat system.

Casts Power Word: Pun. I am glad that we continue to have the right to arm bears in Starfinder Society.

Welcome back!!!!

On January 15th, we added two extra tables and had nine new players and a tenth player who had an Organized Play number and showed up for Starfinder. Ironically, we had previously scheduled a Pathfinder Society character creation session in the morning and added one in the afternoon.

Our next event is February 5th. Of 6 tables, 3 are full, one is almost full, while two others have room for players. We have a morning and afternoon Pathfinder character creation session.

Fortunately, one new player is interested in GMing in the future.

How can Anderson Morgan Gaming Join the ORC. Most we just streamed live on Facebook. First with 3.5 then Pathfinder. At one time I am just under an million subscribers. We did the you could make money streaming Dnd online. I had most high school and collage females. But they liked white wolf better. We had 7 to 13 players. Because are adventure path was written for 3.5 but after my art team moved or got busy, I have dm at gencon with both 4th and p1 st.

The initial post on the Open RPG Creative License (ORC) is here: Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License:

The most relevant section, which includes a link to join is here:

The new Open RPG Creative License will be built system agnostic for independent game publishers under the legal guidance of Azora Law, an intellectual property law firm that represents Paizo and several other game publishers. Paizo will pay for this legal work. We invite game publishers worldwide to join us in support of this system-agnostic license that allows all games to provide their own unique open rules reference documents that open up their individual game systems to the world. To join the effort and provide feedback on the drafts of this license, please sign up by using this form.

Wyrmworks Publishing has a very damning jeremiad that is a reprint of the company response to the OGL 1.2v1 survey. Dale Critchley raises the issues of disability rights and quite bluntly accuses Hasbro/WotC of lying. ableism, and lack of respect for publishers and customers. called Responding to the OGL 1.2v1 Survey #opendnd.

We have an updated schedule, due to high player demand:

Pathfinder Society returns on February 5, 2023, at 11 AM and 5 PM at Geeky Tea Games, 2220 W Magnolia Blvd, Burbank, CA 91506.

Join us at Geeky Teas and Games, 2220 W Magnolia Blvd, Burbank, CA 91506 on February 5, 2023, for Pathfinder Society and Starfinder Society Organized Play.
At 11 AM, we will offer:
PFS 2 1-03 - Escaping the Grave for levels 1-4
PFS 2 3-13 - Guardian's Covenant, a repeatable scenario for characters of levels 3-6.
Bounty 10 - The Hillcross Roundup for 1st-level characters (repeatable). There will be a character creation session accompanying this scenario.
At 5 PM, we will offer:
PFS 2 3-03 - Catastrophe's Spark for characters of levels 1-4
Quest 1- The Sandstone Secret for characters of levels 1-4 (repeatable). There will be a character creation session accompanying this scenario.
SFS 3-05 - The Hive Market Heist for characters of levels 1-4. To learn more about the adventures or to preregister, please go to the Pathfinder and Starfinder Society of Los Angeles Warhorn page.