Whyte_Widow's page

sweet! thanks.

Does this count towards the overall magical enhancement?

example:

+1 seeking comp longbow is valued at a +2 weapon

if i add the adaptive enchantment to it... would it then be valued at a +3 weapon or... is it just a +2 value with an additional 1000gp tacked on?

Our long time group has run into this a few times. Our most cherished changes were drastic alignment changes (mummy killed us at third level, then raised us back as evil skeletal champions.) And a pacifist group who avoided conflict at all cost. Mixed with a eastern religious twist and getting rid of alignment and Gods all together. (Think avatar)

Best way to approach monotony is to completely change a standing mechanic and turn it upside down from my experience.

Absolutely agreed. Just looking for basic feat options. First time playing a class where animal companion has been a contributing factor in the party. I played a druid last but, opted out for a clerical domain.

Aye, for sure. My plan was to go down the snap shot route to protect the casters and maximise AOO's ... With the added mobility of impossible speed and horseshoes of speed... The skirmish tactics will have a much larger range.

What feats should I take on my animal companion?

Also, how beneficial would taking the Celestial Servant race feat be rather than taking additional feats to increase his bow prowess sooner?

LoL so did I. I had a friend who wanted to play it and sat at my house skimming through books for hours and for the first time i just shrugged my shoulders.

Magical items are going to be hard to come by. What is the setting of the dungeon? If underground I may consider an orc ooze cave druid.

Keep in mind the errata changes if you have the book.

"The tetori monk archetype has three bonus feats that do not exist: 2nd level—Crushing Embrace; 10th level—Twin Lock; and 18th Level—Backbreaker. What feats should replace those missing feats?

Official Update: Change "2nd level—Crushing Embrace" to "2nd level—Stunning Pin"; change "10th level—Twin Lock" to "10th-level—Pinning Knockout"; and change "18th level—Backbreaker" to "18th level—Neckbreaker."

+1

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-a rchetypes/tetori

Aasimar Garuda blooded ranged ranger taking the Champion path with Distant barrage and impossible speed. (To balance the OP nature of the race the GM has made me take a -2 to Constitution)

GM has allowed me to open my choices of animal companion from the druid's list. I have a large cat on my side now.

Took Mythic Deadly Aim as my tier 1 feat.

Two questions.

Which feats and advancements should I take for my kitty?

and

What other Mythic path abilities/Mythic feats would benefit me as a ranged support class?

Other classes at the table:
-Sword and board pali (marshall)
-damage barbarian (champion)
-zen monk archer (champion)
-heal bot cleric (hierophant)
-conjurer wizard (archmage)
-*no combat* skill monkey/knowledge bard (trickster)

Rules are not a huge issue for this game as we are HEAVY ROLE PLAY. We have been playing for 13 years+ and things are not ever set in stone. Fun is our key and well "restrictions and necessities" aren't paramount.

Also, would it be beneficial to switch out to a different animal come 10th?

1. Light Armor Proficiency

2. Power Attack
5. Improved Overrun
8. Improved Natural Weapon (gore)
10. Charge Through
13. Greater Overrun
16. Improved Natural Weapon (hooves)
18. Eldrich Claws

Remember to raise the Int of your companion to 3 so that it can learn all the feat and be able to understand you without tricks.

Lookout is nice but you probably are feat-starved in order to take all the useful archery feats in time.

i like this plan. Generally at our table... we dont get much past 13th level. Already increased int to 4. I did take boon companion at 3 so at 4 the elk is coming in at equal level. Generally this is a heavy role playing table so i chose the AC with the most flavor. I can always change to a wolf later on if I don't feel the elk is pulling his weight.

I have two questions really.

Is it worth it to waste the skill points on spellcraft to work towards improved share spell feat?

and

How would stealth work with a traditionally not stealthy animal?

The boon companion feat has him at full level. Bodyguard is a must IMO now that i have looked at it. Just never have made an animal companion before. Should be fun.

Human - and i plan on staying with the same companion through the campaign. I was thinking as a mount. Just hit level 4. I had originally thought wolf or cat. But, felt this would be fun as well.

Megafauna (giant elk)
http://paizo.com/PRD/additionalMonsters/megafauna.html

Given the go ahead for this as my ranger animal companion with Boon Companion feat.

I was going to go with the traditional wolf. But, this fit our campaign a bit better. How would you optimize this companion for a ranger with a bow?

Heading out now. Should be back in a few hours if you have any more questions. Hope this helped!

you are the man actually. and i appreciate all the great advise! now, what would be some great core pathfinder monsters to think of summoning for this ability?

is

Whyte_Widow wrote:

Bascaria wrote:

Whyte_Widow wrote:

Bascaria wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by "My gm has stated that if the Summon Monster ability increases the monsters abilities or CR that it will increase the caster level of the spell."

Your caster level is your anti-paladin level for this ability. Increasing your caster level is a good thing, here, as it makes the summon harder to disrupt and the servant harder to dispell later. If you are saying that the GM will make it so that once your servant gains the advanced template and then SR that it will bump all the available critters up to a higher summon monster table, then that flies completely in the face of what the ability is supposed to do. GM's initiative, and all, but it is a horrible, horrible nerf of the class that is completely uncalled for. If it is some third interpretation... then I can't really speak to it.

Forgive me caster level was the wrong choice of words. It increases the the CR of the monster, therefor pushing the monster to a higher table.

Well, then he made the choice easy for you. Go for the weapon, absolutely no questions asked. He is going directly against the rules as they are written in the book, which is his prerogative, but I think a bad choice. A terrible choice, actually. If it's worth it to you, then I would try and make a counter-case. If it's not, then just shrug and go for the bonded weapon.

What would be the best logical way to argue my case? That is if the pet is that much of a better option to feel warranted starting a table dispute.

I know it's an issue of idiom, probably, but I would, of course, do it away from the table. If you confront a GM about a rules issue when they are surrounded by their other players, then the instinctive reaction is to shut you down. So, if you are going to start a table dispute, first do it away from the table.

Second, you have the Rules as Written (RAW) on your side. The RAW says you pick a servant from the...

Very valid points all of them. Having played with this GM for close to 8 years, I already know what his next stipulation would be. The creature would have to be native to this area and the paladin would have to have some sort of skill that would give him the knowledge to know what he am summoning and why.

Whyte_Widow wrote:

Bascaria wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by "My gm has stated that if the Summon Monster ability increases the monsters abilities or CR that it will increase the caster level of the spell."

Your caster level is your anti-paladin level for this ability. Increasing your caster level is a good thing, here, as it makes the summon harder to disrupt and the servant harder to dispell later. If you are saying that the GM will make it so that once your servant gains the advanced template and then SR that it will bump all the available critters up to a higher summon monster table, then that flies completely in the face of what the ability is supposed to do. GM's initiative, and all, but it is a horrible, horrible nerf of the class that is completely uncalled for. If it is some third interpretation... then I can't really speak to it.

Forgive me caster level was the wrong choice of words. It increases the the CR of the monster, therefor pushing the monster to a higher table.

Well, then he made the choice easy for you. Go for the weapon, absolutely no questions asked. He is going directly against the rules as they are written in the book, which is his prerogative, but I think a bad choice. A terrible choice, actually. If it's worth it to you, then I would try and make a counter-case. If it's not, then just shrug and go for the bonded weapon.

What would be the best logical way to argue my case? That is if the pet is that much of a better option to feel warranted starting a table dispute.

I'm not sure what you mean by "My gm has stated that if the Summon Monster ability increases the monsters abilities or CR that it will increase the caster level of the spell."

Your caster level is your anti-paladin level for this ability. Increasing your caster level is a good thing, here, as it makes the summon harder to disrupt and the servant harder to dispell later. If you are saying that the GM will make it so that once your servant gains the advanced template and then SR that it will bump all the available critters up to a higher summon monster table, then that flies completely in the face of what the ability is supposed to do. GM's initiative, and all, but it is a horrible, horrible nerf of the class that is completely uncalled for. If it is some third interpretation... then I can't really speak to it.

Forgive me caster level was the wrong choice of words. It increases the the CR of the monster, therefor pushing the monster to a higher table.

In my campaign we allowed Fiendish companions for Anti-Paladins & BlackGuards (based off of an idea from NeverWinter Nights).

Also keep something in mind, there is nothing stopping you from still having a mount just because you didn't "spec" for it, merely that a normal mount isn't as strong, but then you cant use a mount in every dungeon or encounter either but you will use an enhanced weapon with every encounter. It is thus my personal opinion that weapon bond is simply a stronger option in most campaigns (with some RP exceptions that would typically be NPC for the most part anyway).

oh the mount wouldn't be my option. the way that the permanent summon monster ability would be used would be to give me a "pet" per-say to soak up damage while plugging away with arrows. However, as of late the fighters have actually been doing their jobs so i dont know how viable this would be. I am thinking that the weapon route would be the most selfish route and thats what the anti-paladin is all about isnt it? ha

just reaching level 5. Originally a Human Paladin of Sarenrae. A Zon-Kuthon mummy killed us and raised us as skeletal champions. Now, he is a Long Bow wielding ranged Anti Paladin of Zon Kuthon.

That being said, I am at a crossroads on which to choose for my fiendish boon. My gm has stated that if the Summon Monster ability increases the monsters abilities or CR that it will increase the caster level of the spell. That being said the weapon bond route sounds like a better alternative. What are your thoughts and strengths/weaknesses to each route and why?

hexes ftw!

rough choice here for what is more viable. Skeletal Champion antipaladin of zon-kuthon. no con, HP is charisma based now. Touch of corruption heals undead... assume that since the pali LOH ability is swift ... i can heal myself as a swift. Currently going the archery path... but, since the GM has raised us as evil undead... i am thinking that retraining feats to switch to melee (falchion based) would make more sense with the antipali build.

now the question is ... weapon enhancement or permanent summon monster? im leaning towards the summon. (some nasty beasts!) what are your thoughts?

Mechanically, an Antipaladin is better off at melee, specifically using a Conductive weapon to channel his Touch of Corruption and enhance his melee attacks (a strategy that doesn't work at range).

Thematically, Zon-Kuthon is all about suffering, and seeing others suffer, an experience you'd be likely to miss out on from range. The difference will also accentuate the whole 'evil and different' aspect of the character. Particularly if you pick up a Spiked Chain (Zon-Kuthon's favored weapon).

agreed. i do believe that the falchion > spiked chain in sheer damage output... Not to mention i already have a falchion at hand. (was my fathers prefurred weapon) i believe i will get a spiked chain just for pure aesthetic value though. :-D

A recent total party kill. I, a sarenrae paladin, and my noble companions were taken down by an ancient mummy. Now we have all been raised as evil skeleton champions. I have been given the option to go skeleton champion, antipaladin of Zon-Kuthon. As well as the rest of the party has been given the option of playing their own undead characters. Obviously this sounds like a load of fun. Also, this is the introduction to the APG for the entire group. With my focus being ranged with bow and arrow... many of the group think "retraining" myself to be a more melee oriented character would be more appropriate. However, I still believe that ranged is the way to go. Thoughts?

I'd say that it depends on the campaign, but getting that 19 Dex allows you access to every archer feat that I know, so it has some merit there.

If you cast a lot of spells, get hit with a lot of spells, want to use your LoH ability a lot and run into lots of smite-able enemies, then I'd go for Cha, as it boosts all of those things. Dex is nice if you need the initiative boost and run into lots of non-smite-able enemies.

I believe the only ranged feat that requires a 19 dex score is Improved Precise Shot. Which could be handy down the road. However, if i bump it to 19 I may as well get another and bump it to 20.

Charisma on the other hand bumps my LOHs numbers (i tend to be the one doing the most damage so i tend to get alot of unwanted attention) bumps my smite to-hit. Bonus to saving throws via Divine Grace. Bonus spells etc.

i feel like charisma is the obvious choice... but it may not be so simple. just been battling with this prior to this next level.

playing a core ranged paladin of Sarenrae. Both Dex and Cha are 18. Which should i put my ability score bonuses into? Dex so my shots hit better? Or charisma for all my pali bonuses?

also, are there set rules or is it frowned upon to dip into a second class to expand my set of skills? i could dip into sorc or ranger to add additional skills to my list to choose from if it may be worth it.

OOOkay, that´s your concern then... Well, I would say that maxing Sense Motive in all ways possible definitely isn´t in the standard Paladin Code. If they do something ´dishonorable´ behind your back, that´s not your fault, though you might want to RP ´teaching them the badness of their ways´ afterwards... That´s not even strictly necessary. Having ´honourable´ companions isn´t a requirement of the Paladin Code, in fact you can have straight up Evil Companions. (Check other thread on that subject) ...I don´t think you have anything to worry about, you don´t need to go further out of your way... Paladins have 2 skill points for a reason, you aren´t expected to need to be a skill monkey, so don´t feel bad if you aren´t.

I think its possible that my GM, having little to zero experience running or GMing a paladin character, has an embedded idea of what he expects a paladin to act like. With this i was in charge of rolling up the church clergy which includes most of the paladins and clerics within our society. Two of the higher ranked officers and respected paladins of sarenrae happen to be twin halflings. One riding a cheetah, the other riding a tiger. The girl riding the cheetah, is a ranged paladin that showed my character everything he needs to know about shooting a bow. Her twin, male, is a spirited charger with a nasty lance. Both level 15. the idea behind these characters was to add depth and to bring forth a fresh feel on the whole idea behind what a paladin is supposed to be like. i got a strange look when i handed over the numbers and backgrounds of the twins. But, hopefully this will open his mind a bit to what i had in mind for my character.

I just find it strange the OP hasn´t enunciated WHY Sensing Motive on his own Bard ally´s Bluffs is necessary for him to play his desired role.... Why can´t you just ask the guy what was real and wasn´t after the fact? (if he´s bluffing about subjects you have experience of, you should alread KNOW what it is real and what isn´t)

Anyhow, it seems like his problem is just that Sense Motive and Bluff work off different stats (CHA vs WIS). A Bard doens´t really have more use for WIS than a Paladin, and is thus likely to not be able to discern his own Bluffs (or those of his clone) with as much accuracy as desired either (what is desired? all the time? being able to pass on a 20???). Like I said, SkilL Focus Feats do exist, if Sensing Motive on your own Companion´s Bluff is so important.

I don´t really see the conflict, let the Bard be the Bluffer... You, the Pally can play up the aura of dependability and honor, and let him lie for you when convenient... Just keep you mouth shut, or leave the room. You keep your clean reputation, but he can be your ´fixer´ when Paladin Code doesn´t cut it. Sounds like teamwork to me.

Its not necessary really, and i suppose that would be the best course of action. However, i was worried about possible GM retribution if my party acts one way and i just turn my head to things that may not be "honorable"

EDIT: Are you really worrying about beating your own party member´s bluff, rather than NPCs? I mean, if the Bard himself is wanting to compete for the Politician roll and is Bluffing you personally, trying to compete with him is going to be tough because Bard is much more like a single-stat focused Full Caster than a Paladin is (so probably has a higher CHA than you). I doubt the Bard has a higher Sense Motive than you anyways though (although he could have some Variant which gives a bonus there...?), so likewise he probably couldn´t discern similar Bluffs (though you probably aren´t making them as a Paladin - which is your main problem in Politics, I¨m afraid).

This is a valid point. No, the Bard isn't bluffing me personally... but, I cannot tell what is truth and what is fabrication when he is speaking to others. Do not get me wrong I don't wish to compete with the bard. I just wanted to be able to maximize my role within the party. If I ended up falling into a role that suited the party best... I would think that would be more satisfying in the long run.

I don´t see what I suggested as changing your role (Inquisitors can be great archers) besides enabling what you yourself said you wanted. With 4 ranks a level, it seems like you can easily cover the social skills you need... Certainly adding another Profesion:Politician skill seems bizarre if you think you have a problem covering the normal ones. Look at published NPC ´politicians´, I doubt they have that Profession... Having it doesn´t help any ´storyline´ or roleplaying, being a strong diplomat, sense motive, know:local, is going to help you be a competent politician, and that still leaves you one more skill.

advanced players guide is out due to not being core. We just finished up our 3.5 campaign a few months ago. This being our first pathfinder campaign we wanted to play core and move up from there. Our group has been meeting for 8+ years so we will have plenty of time to indulge.

also, i do have sense motive maxed currently.. however due to low wis its difficult to pick up on the bard's bluff.

We are almost lvl 4 at this point. I don't wish to reroll due to having a NG cleric of sarenrae in the party filling that role already. I chose the archer path due to lack of ranged assets within the party. (2 melee fighters, bard, melee/skill monkey rogue, and cleric) not to mention the lack of true caster makes life a little more difficult from time to time.

i like my character for sure. i just want to ensure that I become something other than a shoot bot.

My int is a 12. giving me 4 skill points per level (human) i could do five but, seeing as both the fighters aren't pushing forward without fear... i tend to be the one taking the most hits. Which i dont mind due to the LOH ability. Not to mention being the main damage dealer in the party makes baddies love me, i must say! However being smacked around a bit makes that extra HP very tempting.

I was thinking about taking profession: politician as a skill and seeing where my gm can go with that. may add a decent storyline addition.

Currently running an archer paladin of Sarenrae. I seem to be lacking the proper skill points to be more of an asset outside of battle. I was hoping to push more towards a politician of sorts for a viking-esc society. Would the lack of skill points point me to a different direction?

The bard of the group is currently acting as our prime spokesman. He outshines my pali in conversation most of the time... and the problem I've noticed is he has more skill points to play with. Giving him a slight edge on the role of "the face of the party."

I know that generally a paladin should be outspoken and the fine example of the party... is it possible to play a high charisma softspoken, lead by example paladin? /discuss

At a level where you can apply speed with weapon bond you shouldn't need it. Boots of speed are one of the very few good martial items in PF which don't require standard actions for buffing ... and cheap too. Indispensable.

Whats the price on the boots of speed? 12k? it may be more worthwhile to imbue my weapon with it to continually get the effect. also get the holy attribute involved with the weapon creation... seeing as my character will be a weaponsmith (our gm has mandated that we all must have a means of occupation within the community.) i could feasibly create the weapon myself. the effects of haste are still valuable without the extra attack. the weapon bond then is more valuable pushing the limits of the added bonus to attack and damage. (+'s to the weapon itself.) keen seems to be a trap due to the limited threat range of a bow. i would rather be able to push the limits in a do or die sitch .... i.e. smite, weapon bond and available buffs through paladin spells (limited as they are, lol.)

with the bard pushing our morale and the added utility of paladin auras ... i think we may have something viable here. ;-)

Whyte_Widow wrote:

1. Armor Choices. I have gone the weapon bond route...

Bit of a trap choice. Weapon bond because of the short duration and standard action calling is only useful when you have time to prepare for a fight you can initiate within minutes.

Quote:

which means that mobility is key to success and getting around to help those in need.

The best way to help them will generally be killing those who are trying to kill them ... for that you have to full attack, for that you have to be non-mobile (without a mount any way).

Quote:

4. Weapon Bond Choices. Which weapon bond choices are key to the ranged paladin's success?

Merciful, Flaming or Flaming burst, keen and occasionally axiomatic/disrupting if you know it will be useful.

Holy is something you will want on your bow any way as standard. Speed doesn't stack with haste (which you will have from boots of speed or party buff). The rest isn't really relevant either for various reasons.

hadnt thought of that. you can put up to +5 enchantments on your bow... but, the bond goes above and beyond that. so holy and speed and +1 for the bow initially. then add the bond.

1) Yep, start with chain shirt, then eventually move to either elven chain or mithral breastplate (depending on your preferences). Buckler is fine, but you'll want to take the feat that lets you attack and still get it's benefit (if you qualify, don't have my book with me).

2) If you're going for the archer, boost the dex. You want to be able to hit as many times as possible with your arrows, especially if you're using Rapid and Many shot feats, you'll want every + you can get.

3) That's a 50/50, honestly. You can either be a sniper, or start rounding out your character so you can handle melee as well. There are equal pluses and minuses to both.

4) Brilliant energy is right out, since you can't apply it to the bow (only to ammunition, which is not your bond). So, I'd suggest flaming, holy, or disrupting if you're going against something that they will affect. If you're not sure, or you have a bunch of targets, I'd go with speed (which goes back to the dex boosts in 2).

Buckler - We have determined with the line on pg 150 "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it." and that the AC bonus still applies while using a bow but, not while using two weapons. It was a small debate and i suppose if the rules are questionable... its GM approval ultimately.

What about my extra smite abilities? or even extra saves? this is such a hard question to answer because both abilities are equally important in this build.

Brilliant energy is amazing but, alas not for the archer build. Flaming, holy, keen, axiomatic, merciful and speed are probably going to be my choices.

Holy, Merciful, Speed, axiomatic, flaming, in that order. eh?

Whyte_Widow wrote:

A few questions that are not laid out in the various pali guides i have ran into.

1. What are your full stats? Race?

2. What level are you starting at? 1st?
3. What level are you looking to play towards/how long will it take to get there?

All that said, I would boost CHA over DEX, but that's me.

I would look at celestial chainmail for later on, but for now deal with a chain shirt until perhaps getting a mithril breastplate in the midlevels if needed.

If your front rank holds well you shouldn't get attacked much, I would consider the spell shield other and use your lay on hands to heal the damage you take via it.

I would not take weapon specific feats for non-bows. Likewise you won't qualify for shot on the run without spending 2 other feats.. don't.

Feats:
PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Manyshot, Improved Precise Shot, and Improved Critical should take you until 11th or 13th.

-James

1. Human Str 16

2. Currently level 2. New campaign.
3. Probably around 15-18th. We play weekly. Last campaign took us about 2 years to get to 16. (3.5 dnd)

Shot on the runs only qualification that may not be viable is Mobility. Which is probably important considering my build. I want to be within 10 feet of combat due to my auras. I want my melee'ers to be able to take advantage of my auras. So naturally... i want to be able to be right up in the thick of things... not sniping from farther away. I will have the danger of being attacked considering the amount of damage the build will produce. Shield other will probably be used on the bard or rogue depending on who needs it most. With my ability to heal myself as a swift, high AC and smiting ability. I will be a hard target to take down.

Improved Crit hardly seems worth it considering that the threat range on a bow is only 20. I would deem an extra lay on hands, or mercy may be more reasonable than increasing the threat range to 19-20... but that could be just me.

A few questions that are not laid out in the various pali guides i have ran into.

1. Armor Choices. I have gone the weapon bond route... which means that mobility is key to success and getting around to help those in need. (and not getting myself flanked or in a tight spot.) What armor would be best to go with? I am thinking eventually medium mithril armor so i can get my full base movement. But, seeing as we just started... the mithril is going to be a bit expensive for my taste. Currently using a chain shirt (light armor) and a buckler. (AC = 19 w/ a +4 for dex.)

2. Ability Bumps. Obviously its either going to be DEX or CHA. Which are currently both @ 18 (str being a 16 and con a 14). With obvious advantages to both... which ultimately would benefit my build more? Bumping DEX or CHA for the pali buffs?

3. Feats. I had thought about this quite hard. And it is kinda viable to go a switch hitter route. But, after Precise shot, Rapid Shot, Point blank shot, Many Shot, Deadly Aim, and Shot on the Run... where should i go next? Should i then start to push towards buffing up my Falchion via feats? (Imp. Critical, Power Attack, Critical Focus, etc.) I have a decent strength at 16... but, i dont know if i should start going with the dodge/mobility line after lvl 9 to gain concealment whilst moving/strafing around the combat or if the switch hitter is a more versatile option.

4. Weapon Bond Choices. Which weapon bond choices are key to the ranged paladin's success? simple question. Havent gotten far enough to take the time to consider one route or another.

** keep in mind this game is CORE ONLY! no 3.5 books allowed and no Pathfinder add-ons allowed. **

current party.
NG Human Cleric of Sarenrae (same as my deity)
CG Halfling Rogue
CG Human Fighter (two weapon, short sword/Long sword)
CG Dwarf Fighter (single weapon w/ shield)
CG Halfling Bard (Only arcane spellcaster)