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Yep. I was running it. Even I was surprised about how effective the AMF + Dragon was. Typically my players come up with all sorts of nifty ideas... but this time it was a blank, and even I couldn't come up with any decent options to recommend at the time.
I have to say I'm curious as to how you guys are going to get the characters back in the game. Maybe a few true resurrections, but they come back differently. Or maybe Thorn always had clones of each PC waiting for them as their original self, meaning that the vampire would lose his supernatural abilities. Or maybe a whole new group coming to rescue the sorceress.Wow. Talk about a dirty old man. Old consort isn't even cold and he is hunting down a new toy.Well the sorceress is very attractive... :) We had some discussion after the session and we aren't going to be continuing WotW, so the point is kind of moot.
Yeah, I think the indoor thing would have helped. Also not having the little fairies running away crying 'Evil' would have left the Kami & the Treant probably willing to 'chat' a bit. Then if the PCs dropped the hammer hard and fast, they might have been able to do it (the antipaladin smite good + hasted full attack). Indoors & alone, again if the PCs talk first then jumped the dragon, the initiative order would be a huge factor. And if they could prevent the dragon from casting (via silence) that would probably be all she wrote.
Yes, I read the link you gave, which was to the d20pfsrd site. The one I posted was from Paizo's site (sorry, but I always take Paizo's version over the d20pfsrd one). During the session, I ran the Dragon's DR as Ex, thus it wasn't suppressed. The vampire's issue was that it was daytime (and sunny to boot), and his magic item that keeps him safe from the sun would be inert, thus burnt to a crisp (which is what happened when the dragon caught up to him). The archer could barely hit it while outside the AMF. When he got charged by the dragon he couldn't hit it or do any damage. [we found out when a Strength Composite Longbow was more value than the Adaptive enhancement.] The Antipaladin did close, but with a poor damage ratio (he did something like 15pts of damage, the dragon did 90+) he decided to run away. The warpriest didn't have any guns (seriously none of the players inquired as to what level of firearms were in the game... /shrug). The sorcerer was all evocation dmg or charm type spells. No mass conjuring there, and I think even if she did conjure something, it would not have been very effective. But it was moot since the player couldn't make the session.
The party Antipaladin 14Vampire Inquisitor 12 Warpriest 14 Arcane Archer (can't recall the exact spread of classes) 14 absent
I'm curious how a supernatural effect like smite got suppressed by antimagic field. I've always found that incredibly stupid. If you have DR and a decent amount of hp you're practically invincible. Because the spell indicates supernatural effects are suppressed. [Sorry Kevin, when I typed this out, I thought you were asking a question. After reading your post again, I think you were questioning why the spell suppressed supernatural.] "An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities." Having said that, there apparently is some discussion on the boards as to whether the dragon's DR is Su in origin. If so, then it isn't quite so bad (although during the session I did use the DR). But I can't find a definitive answer that says the Dragon's DR is either Ex or Su. /shrug. *Edit'd for politeness.
From the PRD
DR:
Damage Reduction (Ex or Su) A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below. The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability. Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage. Others are vulnerable to certain materials, such as adamantine, alchemical silver, or cold-forged iron. Attacks from weapons that are not of the correct type or made of the correct material have their damage reduced, although a high enhancement bonus can overcome some forms of damage reduction. Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons—that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures' natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Some monsters are vulnerable to good-, evil-, chaotic-, or lawful-aligned weapons, such as from an align weapon spell or the holy magical weapon property. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that matched the subtype(s) of the creature. When a damage reduction entry has a dash (—) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction. A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon, such as “cold iron or magic.” A weapon that inflicts damage of either of these types overcomes this damage reduction. A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction (such as “magic and silver”), and a weapon must be both types to overcome this type of damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction.
And I do see a number of class features that specifically mention that the DR they provide is Ex.
I did go looking to see whether DR was (Ex) or (Su) and I couldn't find anything that said definitively that a dragon's DR was one or the other. I suppose I should detail the party that was fighting the dragon.
absent
So my players were off to kill an ancient copper dragon (yes, my PCs are evil).
What dragon that has access to antimagic field would not cast it as their very first action and then melee the crap out of would be dragonslayers? Consider, for the dragon, casting antimagic field means that any weapons coming at it (melee or ranged) are no longer magical, so its DR/15 magic soaks up damage.
Any spellcasters are pretty much useless. So, how does one go about killing a dragon that has antimagic field up?
Well it looks like my Way of the Wicked Campaign has come to an end.
The PCs were on the isle, hunting down the consorts and eventually the copper dragon. Unfortunately TPK-like conditions occurred.
Details:
The PCs had dealt with all the Oreads and the consort in the building. They then decided to deal with the grove. They approached, the fairies gave warning about the PCs being evil. Looking into the grove the PCs saw the Kami & the Treant (aka disguised dragon). Round 1 the Kami charged in, hit to no effect on the vampire. The party unloaded on her, didn't drop her in the 1st round, however then it was the 'Treant's turn. Antimagic Field went up and he moved forward towards the PCs. Only one PC identified the spell that was cast... and he didn't tell anyone about it. Round 2, the Kami full attacked to little avail and then she went down. The antipaladin declared his smite against the dragon and charged... only to realize after the fact the antimagic field suppressed his smite. The arcane archer informed everyone about the antimagic field and then closed the distance to try and shoot the dragon. The vampire looked up at the sun and realized that if the dragon got to close the magical shroud protecting him from sunlight would be useless, he started running away. The warpriest decided valor was overrated and planeshifted away. Round 3, the antipaladin ran away. The dragon mauled the archer. When the archer tried to flee, the dragon tripped him. Round 4 the dragon killed the archer and then started chasing folks who were left down. End result, the vampire and the arcane archer were killed; the warpriest escaped via planeshift; the antipaladin escaped on his nightmare; the sorceress was the one unaccounted for.
My players had a long discussion after the fact on how the hell do you kill a dragon that has access to antimagic field. They did agree with my logic, why would any dragon who had access to antimagic field not cast it first.
I should mention, that a had thought about buffing the dragon up with a template or two. But now I'm glad I didn't. It didn't need any buffing up at all, in fact it might have been too tough. :(
Brilliant!
I don't have my books handy, but I'm pretty sure that the description for the 1st level Swordsage (as do the Warblade and Crusader) indicates that the stance gained is a 1st lvl stance. Either that or it was in one of the FAQs/errata for the Book of Nine Swords. There were a lot of optimization builds using the classes, but one of the key factors was having to dip extra levels into them to get higher level stances. The maneuvers slots can be filled with which ever level, so long as you meet the requirements. [edited for spelling]
Dragons!: My players kept thinking about Markadian's Army and how to deal with it (because leaving it alone with the Cardinal's unknown plans apparently wasn't an option...) They decided that Chargammon needed to be brought in. So with a copy of the Seer's handwriting, they sent off a forgery indicating that the prisoner should be killed immediately, and then use the hide as a sail on a fools quest to help find an artifact to help the king. The forgery and the bluff for the lies was very well done. So when they get the quest to ally with the dragon, they were a little nervous, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend was the mantra. They survived meeting Chargammon, although one character took a breath weapon to the face for being a little insolent. And they got the quest to go and kill the rival. Looks like there will be no dragon mount for any of the PCs in the future. Oops!
The fun continues in Book 4! Spoiler: The PCs start exploring Daveryn. They encounter the Baroness and strike a deal. The sell some 'fake' diamonds to gullible bugbears. They stomp the Balleryn School of Dueling into submission. Maul and Clarion showed up, briefly before fleeing... the PCs do crazy amounts of damage, but they will return! The captured and tortured the Cardinal. And they try to take out the wizard's tower... Since the wizard's tower isn't described, I designed it as a 40' by 40' by 40' block, with the top floor being the residence, and the bottom part having a 30' high ceiling. The Vampire couldn't get in (no invite), the other PCs break in, and get hit with Black Tentacles (which they dispel), Cloulkill (which they dispel), and Hungry Pit (which 2 members are bullrushed into, which they dispel afterwards). The invisible stalkers were just plain rude. :) The PCs lost one cohort and almost two PCs to the beat down the Invisible Stalkers were laying down. After playing nice, the PCs decided some AoE was in order and the stalkers alas went down from successive fireballs. The wizard decided that the Duke wasn't worth dying for and teleported away. Having said that, the fight would have gone way differently, if the Arcane Archer had put up Truesight at the start of combat, instead of trying to cast normal, while standing in the threatened square of two invisible stalkers. :)
Quite true. And the idea of the Butler made me think of John Wick's Wicked Fantasy and a Haffun Butler... :) But when I run it, I think I will leave the cohort blank... at least that is my current thought on it.
Her cohort could just be the butler. Doesn't have to be a personal bodyguard or anything like that. There's also a variant Leadership feat done by Rogue Genius Games where instead of a cohort and followers, you just get major bonuses for gathering information, as you have "contacts". My brain was in overdrive last night... Question - how do the Baroness and her troops heal after the bugbears have been attacking ~ a cleric of Mitra?, not likely with the Baroness leaning towards Asmodeus.A divine healer of Asmodeus? ~ unlikely as they would probably wind up in Branderscar. I'm leaning towards the idea of a Chirurgeon with Healing Bombs.
The Baroness:
Baroness Vanya of Veryn Female Human middle-aged Noble 12; Alignment LE, Med. Humanoid Init: +5; Senses: Perception +23 Defense AC: 11, touch 11, FF 11 (+1 Dex); 1/Rd Sense Motive roll for AC (Snake Style) (1d20+35) HP: 57 (12d8) Fort: +6, Ref +11, Will +12; Immune: Disease Offense Speed: 30’ Melee: MW Dagger +9/+4 (1d4-1, 19-20, x2) Ranged: MW Dagger +11/+6 (1d4-1, 19-20, x2) Tactics During Combat: The Baroness avoids combat at all costs, letting her men handle such brute activities. If forced to fight she flees. If cornered, she surrenders. If given no other choice, she fights. Morale: If reduced to ½ HP, she surrenders and begs for her life. The Baroness is not proud and will do what it takes to stay alive. Stats Str 7 [8], Dex 11 [12], Con 9 [10], Int 14, Wis 16 [18], Cha 20 [22] BAB: +9/+4; CMB: +8; CMD 22 Racial: Focused Study (Skill Focus at Lvl 1 & 8, replaces bonus human feat Class: Area of Expertise [Scholarly Training: Novice] & [Diplomatic Training: Savant]; Influence (11pts), Power Base (Leadership & Sense Motive), Inspire (6/day) Feats: Alertness, Cosmopolitan, Defensive Combat Training, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Iron Will, Leadership, Persuasive, Skill Focus (Diplomacy & Sense Motive), Snake Style Noble Feats: Aura of Nobility, Razor Tongue, Rallying Cry Skills: Acrobatics +11, Appraise +10, Bluff +21, Diplomacy +31, Handle Animal +14, Intimidate +25, Know (History) +13, Know (Nobility) +13, Know (Religion) +13, Linguistics +7, Perception +23, Perform (Dance) +17, Perform (Piano) +17, Perform (Sing) +17, Ride +9, Sense Motive +35, Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Infernal, +2 Cosmopolitan, +3 Diplo-Training Novice, +2 Linguistics Gear: MW Dagger, Brooch of Shielding, Cloak of Resist +2, Elixir of Truth, Elixir of Vision, Figurine of Wondrous Power (Silver Raven), Headband of Mental Prowess (+2 Wis/Cha), Signet Ring of House Veryn (500gp) That took much longer than I thought. The Noble class has lots of fiddly bits. Note, I haven't finished off her list of languages as she has 7 bonus ones. And while I gave her the Leadership feat, I don't plan on giving her a cohort for the encounter, I'll just hand wave it that he perished during the initial or subsequent fighting. The feats Aura of Nobility, Razor Tongue and Rallying Cry are all out of the Freeport - The City of Adventure Book. Aura of Nobility - basically a sanctuary effect for 4 rds. Razor Tongue - Intimidate effect, but staggers rather than shaken condition. Rallying Cry - Morale bonus to saves to allies equal to your Cha Mod (for the next save). I'm hoping to play her as a very haughty noble, (Aura of Nobility) "You DARE attack me?" with the Snake Style to deny the first person to attack her.
Hey Kevin,
However I don't think she was a 15point buy.
When I crunched the numbers I get either a 10 point buy or an 11 point buy. Or maybe I have a math error.
Cheers
Woot Kudos! :) I enjoyed building the King. I find with my group, that since we run 5-6 players, that I have to kick things up a notch to keep it challenging, and memorable encounters.That said, I also do it all manually. :)
I've recently rebooted my Way of the Wicked.
In the end they took the cohorts and named NPCs they still had left and about a quarter of their remaining minions. The left the rest of the minions and the bugbears to 'hold off the army, until we unleash our secret weapon on them'. Sadly they bought it and died. :) Then the PCs met with the Fire-Axe. Then as they were getting ready to head out into the sacked town to do stuff, I handed out the pregens for Minion Quest 2. It worked out quite nicely, and they managed to get Grumblejack a new sword and presented their masters with the Duke. My players had a blast (although there was some grumbling that they didn't get to use their characters). I also allowed the players to re-jig their characters. All 25pt buy (we had some who used the Focus & Foible). Allowed them to equip up to the WBL table. I do like Kevin's idea of 'Signing the Pact' gives a tangible bonus. I'll have to decide how I want to incorporate that, so it gives the 'new PCs' a reason to sign on the dotted line.
Some options to consider:
2) Dual Path or Path Dabbling to pick up the Archmage ability - Crafting Mastery (make any magic item) 3) Mythic Point Blank Shot ~ is an option, but in this case, the Extra Path Ability is probably a stronger choice. 4) retrain Skill Focus Alchemy into Quick Draw - so you can pick up the mythic feat: Two Fisted Drinking (I know you want to keep the Skill Focus, but it is an option). So Mythic Tier 1
MT 2
MT 3
Btw, just so you understand the reasoning behind the Two-Fisted Drinking, if you have Admixture Vials which allows you to mix two extracts of lvl 3 or lower, it means you could get 4 buffs up using just Two-Fisted Drinker (although as a lvl 3 character this probably isn't that awesome yet... but say at lvl 8 you could really hulk out at the start of combat, add in the Assured Drinker and you could have 5 buffs up very quickly. Good luck!
At the end of the day, as this looks to be a home game, what is your DM's ruling on this. If your DM is fine with either taking Master Craftsman twice (armor & weapon), or if he is fine with taking Profession (Lawyer) to enchant all your equipment then great. If not, well then you will need to work with your DM to find out what limits or understanding he as about the feats to ensure that you aren't in effect wasting feats. At the end of the day, it will probably be some balance between you and your DM as to what is allowed, makes sense and enables fun. John
So my Alchemist just hit level 7. As his level 3 extract I took Paragon Surge. Right now, I'm strongly leaning towards using the bonus feat from the extract to pickup Iron Will (since Alchemists generally have a poor Will save). At level 8 I know I have the options of Extra Discovery: Force Bomb or Holy Bomb. Or Greater Reposition (in conjunction with the Mythic Ability of Combat Trickery). I do know that whichever feat I pick on the first use of the day will be limited for the rest of the same extract. But I'm looking for other good choices. Suggestions?
Well fortunately in my home game I'm free to ignore the SLA reversal.
I guess it is a good thing I don't play a lot of PFS. I am curious what prompted this reversal. Of course I would really would rather the design team 'fix' alchemists so they can craft magic items, specifically so they can craft Alchemical Golems ~ it just makes sense that an alchemist created the darn things.
John
Well decent stats would let him dip into pretty much anything.
The question should also be: what is he willing to give up?
I can't recommend the inquisitor or cavalier ~ not because they might not be cool, just that I'm not well versed in either of them. Hope it helps.
Session 21:
So the PCs carry on their conquest of the Vale. Torture and pyramid building factor high on their list of things to do. Minions man the gate. Deciding against hitting the phoenix, the villains go after the cathedral first. The dispatch the archons guarding the docks and Lea. Then they realize they need more information to get thru the labyrinth. Next session I suspect they will uncover the answers to the labyrinth, either from the living or via speak with dead. Now to 'prepare' the Master & the Oracle for the fight! :) The players are still having a blast with this adventure and adventure path. :)
From the PRD: Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet. Since it isn't crafted to be a weapon, I don't think it can be enchanted... because technically it isn't a weapon.
An interesting idea moving forward is have the 'cabal' of evil start running the kingdom.
The GM then can still throw kingdom events and such at the group and the players will still have an opportunity to respond. Will they sacrifice their pawns as part of a long game? Or do they seem them as useful tools to control the kingdom. Depending on where you are in the Kingmaker campaign it could provide some very interesting role-playing opportunities.
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