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Well, you can't swipe with a missile weapon, that solves pin problem (and multi-shot feats imply multiple projectiles ^^).

Yes. That's what says the feat.

The tricky question is, what happens on a critical double hit swipe with axe critical specialization effect ? Does it :
- Affect target A & B (both receiving a critical hit, both receive additional damage from their buddy being Axored) ?
- Affect target B (swipe is 1 attack so just 1 effect and not A as the first target being hit)?
- Must affect a target C, adjacent & within reach, or the effect is lost (ruling B can't be Swiped and affected by it from that same attack, even triggering from A) ?

FowlJ wrote:

If one member of the party has a 75% chance to successfully sneak, two more party members have 60%, and Clanky the Champion has 45%, the odds of all four of you succeeding are 75% * 60 % * 60% * 45% = 12.15%. If only Clanky needs to succeed, the party's odds are now 45%.

If you can get away with splitting the party and having only the stealthiest character creep forward, then not using Quiet Allies makes sense, but if everyone is moving together then it increases your odds dramatically.

Just that clanky character probably have 25% or less chance to succeed... Still better than a 12.5%, but not enough to burn a skill feat.

UnderwhelmingFinder 2 for you, again.

Claudius16309 wrote:
Vlorax wrote:

They didn't "nerf" anything. PF2 is a new game, it has new rules, comparing damage numbers to PF1 is just as fallacious as comparing them to 5e.

They're different systems based on different rules and gameplay assumptions, you can't directly compare numbers and gain any useful information because the damage is relative to the challenges/monsters of each game.

Thank you! I came here to say EXACTLY this.

PF2 is a new game, those few words are the only way to accept swallowing that pill. But because it's the same brand, they did really nerf EVERYTHING. That explain pretty well that gut feeling of anyone with a trace of expectation coming in. That's the idea conveyed by OP.

Now, within that system, if one class/thing is balanced (or over-nerfed) vs another one is a whole different topic.

Having one arm tied in the back and both feet in a bag is the new way to try overcoming already hard challenges (growing almost faster than you).
Cheers !

Dude. Still (by pretty far) not convinced. Harmonized composition are Compositions right? So Casting Compositions end Harmonized Compositions !
See, you can't make CRB99 work with CRB101 like that (or work your way out like this) because CRB101 rewrites that, it's new.
CRB101 says "Casting another harmonized composition ends any harmonized composition you have in effect", not "Casting another harmonized composition ends any harmonized composition you have in effect too" nor "Casting another harmonized composition also ends any harmonized composition you have in effect".
It's not because it's still composition that it behaves like in CRB99.

Stacking multiple metamagic-like abilities on the same spell/composition is impossible, rules are pretty clear about that, we are okay. That's just not what I'm implying or asking about.

The only blurry point is why a "harmonized" composition would stop a "normal" composition. It's nowhere written

That CRB99 line describes "normal" composition composition casting (states 1 max) and what happens to your previous "normal" composition. At that point "harmonized" composition do not exist if you do not take Harmonize, there's nothing more to know about it.
CRB101 add a new class of compositions, tells you things that aren't possible in CRB99 and even states black on white what happens at that time : "Casting another harmonized composition ends any harmonized composition you have in effect".
I read it as it come :
CRB99 normal compositions ends normal compositions
CRB101 harmonized compositions ends harmonized compositions, which may look dumb as hell as you can't make a harmonized composition longer than 1 round. Is it a CRB mistake ? Or is it to say it ends that and NOT non harmonized compositions ?

No, rules do not make things easy here. Mixing uncorrelated do not help too and I'm still unconvinced. It has not-so-much been covered in other threads and not by a lot different people, I too don't want misinformation crystallize over the misinterpretation of few lads. No wonder that feat is horrendous playing it "your" way.


Then which precise part of the rules makes you think that way ? Stated facts or "nah" doesn't help to understand...

Raw P. 101 in Harmonize feat (bard) :
"... and you can cast another composition on the same turn as a harmonized one. Casting another harmonized composition ends any harmonized composition you have in effect"

As so far everyone seems to imply (from play tests) that casting another harmonized composition ends any normal or harmonized composition you have in effect, those sentences are misleading.
Last sentence should specify both types, and previous one should not end asking to screw yourself by casting a harmonized composition after a normal one (ex : replacing "as" by "after").
If those people are in the wrong (if words still have meaning), rules should be clearer too because as is, they came to that conclusion.

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FYI, recall knowledge may require one free hand : scratching your head or rubbing your chin ;)

Philosophy, where do we go !?

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PF2 is a good idea but handed (for now) quite poorly. Casters are overly restricted, creature math are questionable , customization came by amputation, etc. And I've been quite appalled by a first wave of very very shy errata.
As of now, I play it cause friends are playing it, no more.

I beg to differ. "Casting another harmonized composition end any ->harmonized<- composition you have in effect". "Harmonized composition" is not "composition".
Last point but not the least, Harmonize feat describes the ability to cast a second composition as a harmonized one. The wording make the order precisely clear, which means that the ruling of the feat would tell you as an example to cast a classic composition, then stop it with your harmonized composition... Nonsense.

As I see it :
- 1st round, you do lingering + harmonized (or harmonized+lingering)
- 2nd & 3rd round, you can harmonize again and have 1 action left for whatever.