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Specific gender could be avoided altogether by referring to us gamers simply as "it", "it's" and "those".
Kudos to Paizo for the upcoming new edition. Can't wait to see it! Imo, PF1E had reached the "bloated" phase of its life cycle some years back, and its time for a good cleansing! Especially happy to hear the increased presence of Golarion, it's my favorite currently published setting.Ok - I have to ask - what's your favorite not-currently-published setting? :) That would be Judges' Guild's "Wilderlands of High Fantasy". Love those maps :)
Kudos to Paizo for the upcoming new edition. Can't wait to see it! Imo, PF1E had reached the "bloated" phase of its life cycle some years back, and its time for a good cleansing! Especially happy to hear the increased presence of Golarion, it's my favorite currently published setting.
5th Edition Character Sheet, in the App Store. Very useful app, quick leveling.
I like FR a lot. My last 5e campaign was set in Golarion, which I really enjoyed, but I do admit some nostalgia for FR. The 3e FR campaign guide is one of the best setting books ever produced, and that coupled with a guide to all the old fallen empires of the setting (Lost Kingdoms?) kept me busy for a long time. I hear the criticism about high-powered NPCs a lot and don't really get it. I don't think any were ever featured in any of my adventures except for the Lady of SilveryMoon, who was more of an enemy to the PCs than an ally (on account of them tending to dig up stuff best left undisturbed). I can't imagine feeling some obligation to have Drzzzzt or Elminster make an appearance, or why their existence would overshadow the PCs importance anymore than, say, Elrond and Galadriel overshadowed Frodo and Sam's importance to the great events of Middle Earth.
Merry Christmas gamers! Not much to add from the playing side to this discussion. From a DM standpoint - high level 5E is so much nicer to run on the fly or improvise than 3.x/PF was! That just adds a whole other element of fun to the game, for me at least. Very much hearkens back to 1e, B/X in that respect. Tweaking monsters to be challenging for higher level parties, especially solo monsters, gets easier as you get used to the system. A lot more happens in each round than I recall in any previous edition, so keep that in mind. Lair/legendary abilities that give the big bass more actions in a round are the best equalizers. For example, if you want a lion to be a challenging solo monster for a party, simply give it the attacks and hit points for three lions, and let it attack and/or move on two or three initiative spots during the round. I'm definitely looking forward to a DM break when we finish ROTRL in a couple of sessions. Not only because I'll get to play a character for a change, but it will give me time to design my own stuff for the continuing adventures of the high level heroes of sandpoint - which I've been dropping Easter eggs here and there may culminate at 20th level at the test of the Starstone in Absolom (we'll see hehe).
The biggest thing I personally got hung up on was the flattened math: if a 1st-level fighter and a 20th level fighter both fire the same bow at the same target 20 times each, the 20th-level fighter is only going to hit a few more times than the 1st-level fighter, and that bugged me to think about. The problem here is maybe that you're trying to use 5e's combat rules to resolve what is actually a contest. The combat rules are set up to deal damage and kill things, not determine who "hits the target more". No ones really going to miss the target that often. You want to determine who hits it better than the other guy. For your archery contest, you would use the ability/skill contest rules from 5e. So roughly d20+5 vs d20+11, higher total wins. I'm no mathematician, but my money would be on the 20th level guy winning more often and reliably. TL;DR: combat rules determine archer vs target. Ability contest rules determine archer vs. archer :)
I'm hoping that after chapter 6, we can go on a high level adventure that deals with that mysterious horse. Last encounter, book six: Karzoug, defeated at last, falls to his knees coughing, blood running from the corner of his mouth. "I would have conquered the world," he gasps, pulling away his human mask to reveal his true face, that of the Thistletop warhorse, "if it hadn't been for you meddling kids..."
I should also add a quick note about high-level conversion. The AP relies heavily on solo monsters, which can be taken down pretty easily by 5e characters. If you want a solo monster to challenge 5e PCs, it's CR needs to be about 150% of party level (like CR 15 for a 10th level party) and it helps to make sure it has legendary or lair abilities, so it's getting in some actions 2 or 3 additional times during the initiative order. A quick and dirty conversion for something like when you want a lion to solo your players would be to simply double or triple its hp, and roll initiative for it 2 or 3 times, so it's acting 2 or 3 times during the round instead of just attacking once and then just standing there while the party whups on it. You'll get a more challenging and cinematic fight that way, it'll be more unexpected, and the players will likely feel a greater sense of accomplishment at taking down the snarly bastard.
My 10th level players took on an Ancient. White. Dragon. CR20. Twice. They held off an army of ogres 300-style. Took on a fortress full of trolls. Whupped a Glabrezu and five Vrocks, AND their 15th level mystic theurge leader. On top of that, they take good financial care of the maids, gardeners, and cooks who keep their estate in Magnimar running in top shape while the party is off saving the Golarion from the awakening threats of Lost Thassilon. They're plenty super imo.
Yes OP, you should definitely give 5E a shot. The issues you brought up (Christmas tree, superhuman 6th level characters, etc) are specifically addressed by 5E. As to the customization concerns addressed by others, it's amazing how many so called options (feats, prcs, etc) do nothing more than amend restrictions that just don't exist in 5E. Dex your high stat? In PFRPG you need a feat to use Dex for melee weapons. No need for that in 5E, it's standard. No need for feat taxes, level dipping, or obscure PRCs to cast spells in armor, move in between attacks, crit without confirm rolls, fight with 2 weapons at once, pare down attacks of opportunity, non-magic healing, etc, etc. For fun, I've been doing prep on a "P6" campaign (E6 with PFRPG) from the ground up and I took a spin through the Mythic book with an eye towards using some of that stuff. I was surprised how many "mythical" abilities do little more than invalidate restrictive rules that simply don't exist in 5E. While I love tinkering with my P6 setting, I find i get more mileage out of removing restrictive rules than I do by adding a bunch of new options designed to side step them.
Pathfinder is Legos.
You can spend hours having a blast building stuff with Legos, but they tend to fall apart when you actually play with your constructions, so you need to get out your action figures. I was just discussing with a couple of friends the other day how D20s allure is really the "game behind the game", that is theorizing, tinkering, and number crunching. 5E is more fun to just sit a table and game with your buddies. As a DM, prep time is so much better for 5e, and I'm converting a PF adventure path so need more prep than I normally would. As a player, I like the freedom of a simpler rule set, but totally get how people have a blast tinkering with all the characters you can build with 3.5 or PF. Who knows, if I was 15 again and the time to commit to the kind of prep a good PF campaign needs, I might be a bit more snobbish towards 5E, but for my busy life 5E allows me a satisfying gaming fix with fewer distractions away fro. The table.
One of the challenges early on with converting RotRL was getting a handle on what CR creatures constitute a challenge for the PCs. 5E resources are a big deal, so having an adventure with one big solo bad guy is very different from what the PCs can handle in a string of encounters, like when exploring a dungeon. So, that lion the PCs run into in the woods on the way to the dungeon is a whole different thing. For whatever reason, PF adventures feature a whole lot of solo monsters, and just doing a straight conversion is going to result in a cake walk. A PF solo encounter for 10th lvl PCs is going to be 9-12 CR. in 5E, it needs to be 14-16. Party level plus 50% is usually a safe bet, plus adding in a few legendary abilities will make the fight more interesting and less of a slog. Fortunately, the DMG makes conversion easy, as you can eyeball what a CR 15 monster should be at in terms of hp, AC, DC, dmg, etc. It takes all of a minute or two to make that lion into something that'll challenge the PCs. Barring conversion, simply increasing the number of enemies faced makes encounters drastically more deadly. Another thing I have to watch with converting RotRL is the sheer number of combat encounters they load the adventures up with. Unless you want your sessions to be literally one fight after another, you're best off cutting some of them. I typically cut about 20-30% of the grinding out of the adventures, which I think keeps focus on the story as opposed to tactics. XP isn't a problem, as I award the total available for finishing an adventure regardless of what was actually killed, provided the PCs accomplished the actual objective.
Not sure how it went down in your game, but that ogre fight should be one of the PCs' choosing, with multiple options to approach, use of different tactics, etc. If the PCs just charge in, guns blazing, yeah, it has a potential to be a bloodbath. When we ran through it in Pathfinder, my PCs used a good combination of tactics and spells to make it fairly easy for them, but the tension from the fight came in keeping their squishier allies alive (and they almost lost one of them. He was one negative HP from death and managed a 20 on his stabilization check.) and if they had just charged in, it probably would have been very ugly. Hah, SmiloDan has conveniently omitted the fact that the party DELIBERATELY solicited that particular fight, basically calling out the entire Fort's worth of Ogres instead of tackling it room to room. It was one of those DM moments where you just have to pause, take a deep breath, and get ready to roll a lot of dice. The party's tactics were sound though, they picked probably the best spot in the area to defend, and even though they ended up beating a hasty retreat in the end, I had to rule that the losses suffered by the ogres so weakened and demoralized them that they ended up abandoning the fort. It also gave me a chance to try out the chase rules in the DMG, which was fun.
5E DCs are fixed, rather than increasing over time as in PF. So a hard lock with a DC15 to pick is going to be DC15 whether your character is 1st level or 10th. What this means is you don't really need skill points if you want to get better at picking locks, just add 2 to your Dex next time around.Picking locks isn't supposed to get harder in Pathfinder either. An 'average' lock is always DC 25. Though it's up to the GM whether you find harder locks at higher levels. I run a PF adventure path in 5e and during conversion I'm routinely kicking back skill DCs from obscene numbers like 30 and 40. These often become 12s and 15s, and only very rarely 20+. A 5e character really just doesn't need all this skill points like a PF character does. My players are about to enter the Runeforge, and right off the bat, I've got to convert several DC 40-50 (yeah 50!) knowledge checks, a DC 40 disable device check, and a DC 45 climb check. What the hell is a DC 50 knowledge check supposed to simulate anyway lol? It brings the end of Highlander to mind.
Just curious, when did you start running Runelords in 5e? I feel like I saw you mention it earlier in the thread (or maybe that was Kthulhu? Darned people having the same avatars :P), but that's a lot of pages to go back through and find that specific post. :PYou're gonna like it. Converting RotRL to 5E is a breeze and we're having a blast. We just wrapped book 4 last week, and are now officially entering "high level" 5E. I want to say late November, early December. So roughly six months now. We play only 1-2 times a month for about 8 hours per session. 5E combat is so much faster than PF's we really chew through the dungeons pretty fast. I'm thinking another 4-5 sessions to finish the AP, unless things get a lot more complicated than they have been so far. By the end, the party should be about 15th level, so I'm working on some homebrew stuff to take them the rest of the way to 20th (and possibly beyond). There's six more Runelords out there, after all. And a pretty cool test of a certain sort awaiting them in Absolom :)
Maybe it's a peculiarity of 5e, but these theoretical mathematical assessments of character classes seem to hold very little water in actual table play. For instance, I often see Ranger described as weak in theory, but in actual play is a devastating damage dealer. The opposite seems to be true with warlock, described as devastating in theory, but not so much at the table (but still useful). Another good example is how Great Weapon Fighting synergizes with a doubled chance for critical hits for the "underwhelming" Champion fighter. I really haven't seen any bad or underpowered classes at the table, which makes me think 5e's long, extensive playtest was a lot more useful at establishing the games balance than just crunching the numbers.
There are 3 main things I'd to see for 5e. 1st a monthly Dragon magazine (PDF is fine) for $5 a pop or so with new class archetypes, backgrounds, feats, spells etc. nothing huge. With a Dungeo. Supplement every other month or so featuring DM stuff monsters, NPCs, and a cool site based adventure. 2nd I'd like to see an annual boxed "flagship" adventure with multiple booklets, maps, and handouts. Think Undermountain or Night Below. Lastly I'd like to see an annual Best of Dragon hardcover with the best of the new archtypes, backgrounds, etc. I'd add an occasional new monster manual to the list, but I'm pretty confident they'll be doing that anyway :)
I love the new DMG, definitely inspires adventure ideas and customizing your houserules. Lots of random tables, which Are always great.
I think people often misquote or misinterpret Lisa's analysis of TSRs problems, sometimes accidentally, and sometimes in an attempt to back up their own opinions. TSR tanked due to its own hubris, overprinting, and not listening to their fans, not due to any "Basic v. AD&D" split, a myth I often see repeated. Everything you need to know about TSRs death rattles is right here: http://insaneangel.com/insaneangel/RPG/Dancey.html
Itt: discussion of a misguided, ham-fisted attempt at a D&D setting devolves into a misguided, ham-fisted attempt at discussing racism. Lols are found in the mostly unlikely places... :)
But like many of you, I wish and hope that they get a bigger digital presence out there.Unless and until they do, 5E is dead to me. New drinking game - every time Bugleyman posts about this, take a shot! :)
1. No AoOs! (Ok, maybe there is ONE OA now, but that's nothing compared to the rollfest that is d20-style AoOs. "I glance upward." "Sorry, that provokes an AoO!" blech, good riddance.). 2. Streamlining stuff like Vulnerability/Resistance, buffs, etc. 3. The flexibility and power of magic. 4. Backgrounds.
ITT: We make bizarre assumptions about 5E after a cursory glance through the rules. many lols :)
Hi all, Biweekly (Sunday evenings) Pathfinder group is seeking a couple of new players in it for the long haul! Email me if interested: Grim213 at aol.com ~al
This. Definitely this. Rofl! I don't think I've seen a simple Fighter/Wizard/Rogue/Cleric party at a Pathfinder table ever.
The spear being a 2-handed-only weapon. Heck, even the longspear being a 2-handed-only weapon. There's 4000 years of military history thrown out the window... |