Hey folks -> The title sez it all. Me - I kinda liked the concept. I just didn't get to play around with it a lot. ( Somebody had to GM, D'Oh !!! )
Comments, Thoughts, Thrown crockery-pottery, Etc.... :
Eberron came along right at the perfect time. I was just starting to realize that the magic-rich and edgingly-Renaissance feel of 3rd edition didn't align well with the assumed Middle Ages feel I'd always ascribed to D&D.
And lo there came a setting that recognized this shift in tone and built upon it. The world felt like D&D3e played.
Now, I have rewritten parts of Eberron to match my tastes, but I assume everyone does that to some level and don't count that as a mark against. However, I think it does have a bit of a hurdle in how everything is so compartmentalized.
Fer instance, giants have an awesome history, culture and role in gaming, but in order to properly experience it, you need to be in Xen'drik. The flavor of Eberron is such that it's very difficult to incorporate other gaming products into it, such as published adventures which assume things like feral goblins or manifesting gods.
Theoretically, I loved it.
The two or three campaigns I managed to get in? Didn't care for how they were run.
If my current DM were to run it, I think it'd go a lot better. But he's happy with Golarion.
Love it! It's probably my favorite setting.
I like it. I just wish the Eberron world was bigger, and it had its deities written with more flavor.
I actually hated it. Now take that with a grain of salt. I never really read much of the campaign setting, I was turned off by the idea of "magic punk" when I heard of it. The entire...noir...feeling of fantasy...isn't the thing I'm interested in.
I'd rather play steampunk with magic instead if I was going for anything like that. Or, a 1940's Cthulu type game with mysticism and magic instead. Magic Punk...really just doesn't capture my imagination of fun.
Of ALL the settings EVER made (yes, seriously), that would have to be the last pick of the type of setting I wanted to do a fantasy game in...soooooo...
Magic Punk probably would be at the bottom of any RPG type game I would choose.
I'd choose World of Warcraft as the D&D RPG before I'd choose it.
I'd choose Ring around the Rosie as an RPG before that type of setting.
So...if you could tell, from what I had heard of Eberron...absolutely NOT my cup of tea.
From what I had heard...I didn't want to play in it. Ironically I do have the campaign setting book for 3e...but I've never actually ever read it.
Loved it. It's a great fit for the 3.5 rules. Love the noir and the high magic integrated into the rule sets assumptions. Loved the novels and worldbuilding too. Favorite novels: Legacy of Dhakaan.
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One of my favourite settings mainly because it doesn't have a ton of high level NPCs to get in the way of the players and the better treatment of the monstrous races like goblinoids and orcs. Shame that it seems to be getting dropped in 5E with the renewed focus on the Forgotten Realms (of insignificant PCs).
Seems like a modern setting. By that I do not mean it was set in our time, but that it reflected modern expectations of a setting. Maybe post-modern would be more accurate.
It was conceived to contained everything. The setting felt whole from the start and not full of holes that needed patching over time. That clearly influenced Golarion. Magic was an integral part of society too. Which makes a lot of sense. Why wouldn't there be a magico-industrial complex?
It could have used better described deities and more high level NPCs, but those were not there because it was also ment to be the anti-Forgotten Realms settings. It is ashame because in many ways it what the FR should have been with a 100 years jump in time.
I'm guessing it will receive minimal support from WotC. Maybe a AP.
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I converted the Age of Worms campaign to run in this setting. It's still my favourite setting of all time, because I love the integration of the magic. It blends the feel of steampunk with magic, and I played the whole last war up as a post ww1 feel to the world. It was epic.
Plus, Age of Worms. Still the best AP written as far as I and my players are concerned.
I have all the source material too. Some great stuff and great flavour in that world.
As for not continuing in 5th ed. Wizards of the Coast current model is to release setting material in a yearly focus. Their opening focus was Faerun (forgotten realms), but as yet they haven't released a setting book for it.
Their Adeventure leagues season is based in Forgotten realms this year.
However, they have stated in the adventure league areas of the website that each season will be set in the main setting WotC is focusing on at the time.
I doubt they'd let one of their more successful settings just die off like that.
Cheers
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I have mixed feelings about it. The atmosphere was too modern for me in parts (trains don't belong in my D&D) and I was indifferent to the world war setup.
But there were many parts I thought were brilliant:
* The PCs are expected to be the high-level badasses of the setting, not Elminster or Mordenkainen.
* High level enemies are separated from the beginning countries by long distances or imprisonment so that they can be phased in at the appropriate time.
* The action point system works great; you get plenty of them and they don't carry over so there's no incentive to hoard them.
* They did a good job at sticking to the principle "anything in D&D has a place in Eberron" (e.g. psionics).
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I actually hated it. Now take that with a grain of salt. I never really read much of the campaign setting, I was turned off by the idea of "magic punk" when I heard of it. The entire...noir...feeling of fantasy...isn't the thing I'm interested in.
I'd rather play steampunk with magic instead if I was going for anything like that. Or, a 1940's Cthulu type game with mysticism and magic instead. Magic Punk...really just doesn't capture my imagination of fun.
Of ALL the settings EVER made (yes, seriously), that would have to be the last pick of the type of setting I wanted to do a fantasy game in...soooooo...
Magic Punk probably would be at the bottom of any RPG type game I would choose.
I'd choose World of Warcraft as the D&D RPG before I'd choose it.
I'd choose Ring around the Rosie as an RPG before that type of setting.
So...if you could tell, from what I had heard of Eberron...absolutely NOT my cup of tea.
From what I had heard...I didn't want to play in it. Ironically I do have the campaign setting book for 3e...but I've never actually ever read it.
You should probably check for yourself. Many times other people's descriptions of things are incorrect. :)
Eberron sucked (i assume it has faded into nothingness) it was too small, bland (which is odd considering the genre it was going for) and just a bit racist (almost no human ethnicity, dark elves being evil from "the dark continent", Dwarves being miserly bankers)
Disliked it immensely when it first came out. Now that I am long since over the short-lived "fantasy must be medieval" phase of my gaming career, I'm wishing I'd given it a fairer shake, so I could incorporate stuff from it into my homebrew; everything I hear from people who have played it and liked it is immensely cool, interesting, or just plain fun.
Thankfully I do have the campaign setting, I just haven't sat down to read it.
Eberron sucked (i assume it has faded into nothingness) it was too small, bland (which is odd considering the genre it was going for) and just a bit racist (almost no human ethnicity, dark elves being evil from "the dark continent", Dwarves being miserly bankers)
I think we've been over this before. The only true thing in what you say is the claim that the world's too small (Keith Baker himself said he miscalculated sizes, I believe). However, it is big enough for most campaigns.
i disagree fabius, and for the record i also found the Drow story of FR racist as well (a race war where the southern darker skinned elves are the super evil antagonists). i will never understand why it is that all elves with dark skin are portrayed as inherently evil.
if you wouldn't mind listing the human ehtnicities of Eberron, as far as i remember its only two.
IIRC there were different countries but not ethnicities. Kalashtar looked human but were really their own race.
As for the drow unlike traditional drow they were more like the wild elves in FR and not all evil.
The setting also broke away from this(racial stereotyping) with other normally monsterous races such as goblins and orcs. A dragon could also be of any alignment so dont assume that a gold dragon is good.
IIRC there were different countries but not ethnicities. Kalashtar looked human but were really their own race.
As for the drow unlike traditional drow they were more like the wild elves in FR and not all evil.
The setting also broke away from this with other normally monster races such as goblins and orcs. A dragon could also be of any alignment so dont assume that gold dragon is good.
uh, they were evil, and worshipped the scorpion deity (also evil btw), they were also the southern dark skinned former slaves of giants, explain how that isn't racist, and only one human ethnicity is super racist! (i mean c'mon! an entire planet of white people! how isn't that racist?)
edit: the op asked how people felt about it, thats how i feel:-)
edit 2: and i never had problems with the modernity (tho the trains were a little silly)
I really like a lot of Eberron, but some of it I ddn't. Like most things. ;P
I liked the Umbral elves, the warforged, the remnants of Cyre/Mournland.
Loved the high concept approach, but the noir stuff was a little forced. Sharn was cool, despite all that.
Misliked trains, but understood the reasoning.
Houses and Dragonmarks are ok too.
I really couldn't handle the compartmentalized nature of the continents - the daelkyr/kalashtar thing just seemed tacked on and unnecessary; same with the dragon continent, and the giants of "lost" Xen'drik made no thematic sense to me. I loved the drow nest of primitive drow in one of the adventures set inn Xen'drik.
Still don't really get the artificer, but it does seem quite popular to this day.
Shifters were cool, if a little style over substance.
Sadly halflings, gnomes and dwarves were still extant, but no less ridiculous than in any other setting. (Sorry Orthos!)
Good druidic orcs for the win.
Gods? I remember like, zippy zap about gods in Eberron.
Come on, the cover of the first Eberron Campaign Setting book? It blew me away, partly becoz the ART, and partly because it felt like all my ideas had been stolen right out of my head. I had always moved a little beyond medieval/Tolkienic and incorporated sci-fi [insert adjective or noun]-punk elements into my campaigns.
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i did like what they did with Orcs and Hobgoblins, and the dinosaur riding halflings were super bad ass:)
Come on, the cover of the first Eberron Campaign Setting book? It blew me away, partly becoz the ART, and partly because it felt like all my ideas had been stolen right out of my head. I had always moved a little beyond medieval/Tolkienic and incorporated sci-fi [insert adjective or noun]-punk elements into my campaigns.
the best thing about Eberron was their cover art, maybe Pathfinder should get that guy to do their cover art;-)
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I loved all aspects of the setting.
@captain yesterday: If there is one setting, where race is not important, it is Eberron. There was general xenophobia, but it was based on country of origin and not on race.
@GreyWolfLord: You said it yourself, you never read the setting. I am suprised you have such a strong opinion, you should not have any at all... ;-) On the other hand if someone told me a setting is just magic punk, I would probably not be looking toward it either.
IIRC there were different countries but not ethnicities. Kalashtar looked human but were really their own race.
As for the drow unlike traditional drow they were more like the wild elves in FR and not all evil.
The setting also broke away from this with other normally monster races such as goblins and orcs. A dragon could also be of any alignment so dont assume that gold dragon is good.uh, they were evil, and worshipped the scorpion deity (also evil btw), they were also the southern dark skinned former slaves of giants, explain how that isn't racist, and only one human ethnicity is super racist! (i mean c'mon! an entire planet of white people! how isn't that racist?)
edit: the op asked how people felt about it, thats how i feel:-)
edit 2: and i never had problems with the modernity (tho the trains were a little silly)
I hate to tell you this, but in real life slaves were the by product of most wars. Yes, that includes white people. The problem is that if the white slave looks like the general population and he/she escapes it is hard to identify him unless he is marked/branded. You see some guy walking around with dark skin and well it does not take a genius depending on where this is taking place. Also it was not all of the drow that worshipped the scorpion god. There were three groups, and only 1 worshipped him.
I think you are being hypersensitive about this to be honest, and until Golarion I did not really see much other than white races in many settings. That is a lack of cultural variety which does not automatically make it racist.
PS: Just to be clear I am only speaking of the eberron drow who had no African features that I could notice.
edit: You are fine with how you feel, but at least get your facts right.
, and only one human ethnicity is super racist! (i mean c'mon! an entire planet of white people! how isn't that racist?)Except they're not all white people - I believe it's even called out that Thranes tend toward darker skin tones. It's obviously been awhile since I read Five Nations or other Eberron sourcebooks.
Galifar is incredibly homogenized due to the nature of civilization there up until the Last War. People hold regional identities paramount.
I also always find it amusing how people can complain about a lack of human ethnicities in a fantasy setting, but then be perfectly okay with all their other fantasy races being completely homogenous monocultures.
I think you're being a little disingenuous here.
Thanks. I have not played with it in a few years, so I did not even know if they had different ethnicities or not. I did remember the drow because I set up a campaign based in Xendrik and I bought that crappy(IMHO) "Secrets of Xendrik" book thinking it would be on par with the Sarlona(psionics area) book.
Edit: You quoted the wrong person. That was from Captain Yesterday.
]uh, they were evil, and worshipped the scorpion deity (also evil btw), they were also the southern dark skinned former slaves of giants, explain how that isn't racist, and only one human ethnicity is super racist! (i mean c'mon! an entire planet of white people! how isn't that racist?)
I do not understand why "southern dark skinned former slaves of giants" should be racist...
Only one human ethnicity is quite smart considering there are many other races present. If you go with more human ethnicities, it opens the door for elven, dwarven, etc. ethnicities as well. And then it starts to be quite complicated. But as far as just features and skin color goes, I do remember the art depicting different types. You have to remember all humans came from Sarlona not so long ago. 4.000 years is not long enough for major differences to appear.
I do wish there was more variation amongst the races ( not just Eberron btw) diversity and complexity are the best traits for a campaign setting.
defend it all you want, Everyone I personally know finds it somewhat racist.
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defend it all you want, Everyone I personally know finds it somewhat racist.
Well, since portraying dwarves as "miserly bankers" is apparently racist then I'm not surprised.
As it happens, it is only some dwarves who are bankers (miserly or otherwise) - one clan of the dwarves of one continent, albeit the continent that is given the most attention in the campaign setting.
Eberron dwarves are hot headed, clannish and masters of in-fighting. House Kundarak is the least interesting thing about them, in my opinion, and even they are not exclusively bankers. They also sell their services as security experts.
Eberron came out when i was relatively new to rpg's. It felt really novel and fresh compared to the other game settings I knew about at the time, and to this day it still is one of the settings I like. Unfortunately, I only got to play a game or two in it, and not under DM's whose style meshed with what I wanted out of a game ... so you can't really hold the setting at fault.
And yah, I LOVED the art style of the cover of the main book (and a few of the followups, as well).
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As for the whole drow thing ... I think it's unfortunate that drow—distinctly characterized by their black skin—are nearly always racially evil. But, as was mentioned up-thread, that's hardly unique to Eberron. In fact, it seems to me that Eberron went out of its way to remove automatic Good/Evil assumptions as a baseline from most races in the setting.
.. as opposed to ... say ... Golarion (for drow, anyway).
I LOVE Eberron. It is the only published campaign setting that I get excited about running or playing in. If you can accept the magi-tech elements of the setting, it is adaptable enough to run any style fo campaign that you like. If you are creative, you can even work around the tech-stuff by carefully selecting the setting and themes of your campaign; but at that point you might be better off with another setting unless you are just in love with the history.
About the Drow in Eberron, they are no more or less racist than Drow in any other setting. Being thouroughly read on the 3.5 setting books, I will positively state that they are not all--or even mostly--evil. Partially because one of the fundamentaly conceits of the setting is that no intelligent race comes with a preset alignment--including dragons, undead, orcs, goblinoids, and drow--with the exception of outsiders whose identity is based on alignment (e.g. devils and demons).
The Drow in Eberron were slaves of giants in the distant past, a common history that they share with baseline Elves. They merely chose to stay on Xen'Drik after the fall of the giant empires when the Elves left for other shores.
If you feel that Drow are racist by definition, that is not the fault of the Eberron setting and you should understand that the designers were required by company mandate to include everything in D&D in the setting and had to do the best with what they were given.
If you feel that the Drow in Eberron are somehow more racist than the standard Drow, I would be intersted in hearing your arguement. But a past of slavery is a tenuious perch for that stance, because many of the humanoid races in Eberron have either a past or present of slavery in their write-ups; including common Elves, humans in Sarlona, Halflings, and pretty much anyone who gets unluck in Darguun.
it is just how I feel about it, my phone and brain cant handle a long drawn out race discussion now.
just move past it and discuss Eberron, and yes I've generally found drow racist in other settings as well And dont like it
if you dont like my opinion, oh well:)
As for the whole drow thing ... I think it's unfortunate that drow—distinctly characterized by their black skin—are nearly always racially evil. But, as was mentioned up-thread, that's hardly unique to Eberron. In fact, it seems to me that Eberron went out of its way to remove automatic Good/Evil assumptions as a baseline from most races in the setting.
.. as opposed to ... say ... Golarion (for drow, anyway).
Indeed. The baseline alignment for every Eberron being is neutral, moreso than in other settings.
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Eberron is about the only published setting that I like. It was definitely deserving of the setting contest win. Of that I 100% believe it was the right choice.
Nearly everything about Eberron I love. Only thing I don't is the Daelkyr, and anything dealing with them. Everything else, is great. The living construct Warforged as a playable race is one of the additions I absolutely love. The Shifters were meh, and were too Wolverine in the art. Changelings being decended from dopplegangers I like more than the female-only hagspawn in Pathfinder.
The non-set-in-stone alignments of intelligent creatures was a great improvement, and something I wish was more prevalent. I have stated my hatred of "enemy races" in various other threads on this forum. The removal of them in Eberron was great. I love that you can't walk around Eberron, see something with green skin, and murder it because it was different. Orcs, goblinoids, gnolls, giants, drow, trolls, ogres, dragons, etc aren't auto-Evil.
You want to talk about racist? Why is it in practically every other setting, the "civilized" races (human, elf, dwarf, gnome, halfling) are the good guys and default good, while the "uncivilized" tribal races (orcs, goblins, ogres, etc) are default evil? It stinks heavily of European "divine mandate" we are better than you uncivilized savages and we will slaughter you for being different.
I like that in Eberron, nothing is color coordinated for your murderous needs (like dragons, for instance). You are just as likely to be splattered by walking up to a gold dragon as you are a red dragon. So much good was done with Eberron, that looking at Faerun, Greyhawk, or Golarion makes me so very sad.
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Itt: discussion of a misguided, ham-fisted attempt at a D&D setting devolves into a misguided, ham-fisted attempt at discussing racism.
Lols are found in the mostly unlikely places... :)
Eberron is one of the better dnd settings. Only the planescape can beat it in terms of awesomeness. The major downside to eberron: It has dinosaur riding halflings.
Forgotten Realms is overcrowded with powerful NPCs and the world feels kinda dull to me. A mediocre world imo.
Darksun is kinda nifty.
Birthright has a cool idea. I wonder if it was partially a source of inspiration for Kingmaker.
The only official setting I really dislike is Spelljammer. It certainly has a cool premice (magically powered spaceship is pretty win) but I really don't like the crystal sphere wossnames.
Then there's an unofficial setting I really dislike. Don't know the name of setting but it features lightsaber wielding space cowboys on dinosaurs.
it is just how I feel about it, my phone and brain cant handle a long drawn out race discussion now.
just move past it and discuss Eberron, and yes I've generally found drow racist in other settings as well And dont like it
if you dont like my opinion, oh well:)
I am not interested in dissuading you from your opinions about the Drow in general, and I'm really not interested in having an in depth conversation about race and racism on the Internet.
My only reason for posting was to express my love of the Eberron setting and to clear up some misconceptions being voiced concerning the interpretation of the Drow in that setting.
it is just how I feel about it, my phone and brain cant handle a long drawn out race discussion now.
just move past it and discuss Eberron, and yes I've generally found drow racist in other settings as well And dont like it
if you dont like my opinion, oh well:)
So basically you have no logic to back your statement and/or you really dont know the setting that well considering your statements which have been shown to be false.
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"No depth needed for analysis because none was taken in design."
To elaborate - Eberron is a kitchen-sink-mess of various fiction tropes. A pastiche of other published stuff and a few oddments besides.
If anything I prefer "kitchen sink" settings so I really don't have a problem with Eberron (or Golarion, or any other setting) on that score.
As a regular reader of Keith Baker's blog I do believe that Eberron, or at least Keith Baker's version of it, has a great deal of depth.
Whether this comes across in the published products is another matter, however. Secrets of Sarlona, for example, is a wonderful book, but some of the other stuff is pretty bland.
I love it as an alternative, the same way I love having pancakes for breakfast every once in a while, but wouldn't want them every day. :) It's a cool, fun setting that's just right for certain types of adventures, and not so great for others.
-The Gneech
Finally, the thing that gets me most about Eberron is the official products. They give big sweeping and sometimes vague generalizations about the history/politics of the campaign world and then tell the GM (and players) that if they need any more detail they should fill that stuff in "to make the setting truly their own".
If I understand you correctly: You want a setting that does all the work for you while exactly matching your expectations.
If I understand you correctly: You want a setting that does all the work for you while exactly matching your expectations.
Finally, the thing that gets me most about Eberron is the official products. They give big sweeping and sometimes vague generalizations about the history/politics of the campaign world and then tell the GM (and players) that if they need any more detail they should fill that stuff in "to make the setting truly their own".
he wants adventure hooks, something more then "figure it out yourself" its the history of the setting for gosh sake! are you going to criticize everyone that doesn't like Eberron? is it that important to you?
he wants adventure hooks, something more then "figure it out yourself" its the history of the setting for gosh sake! are you going to criticize everyone that doesn't like Eberron? is it that important to you?If I understand you correctly: You want a setting that does all the work for you while exactly matching your expectations.
Finally, the thing that gets me most about Eberron is the official products. They give big sweeping and sometimes vague generalizations about the history/politics of the campaign world and then tell the GM (and players) that if they need any more detail they should fill that stuff in "to make the setting truly their own".
There are plenty of adventure hooks strewn throughout the material.
Eberron is my second favourite setting after Planescape, so why would I not answer false claims about (and outright hate towards) it?
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I do like that Eberron left some things open on purpose, but I still wish they had filled in more things so I do agree with Fabius to an extent. As an example I really do wish they had stated how the world came to be instead of having it as a "possible myth", and their deities may not even really exist. Another thing is that the creation of the mournlands was never solved, and there is one more, but my mind just drew a blank.
Overall I do like the setting. I do wish I had time to make it bigger so it could have more nations, but my map skills suck, and I really don't have time to create campaign worlds.
PS: I can play with it as is by modifying things for AP's. In the end I might just bring some of that stuff over to Golarion and make monster less stereotypically good or evil.