TheMilestone's page

I was feeling bored the other day and started looking back through the original PF1 playtest (circa 2008)..... even then lots of people were calling out for a more 'Priestly' cleric option (ie) 1/2 BAB ... etc).

Very bizarre that Paizo didn't even at a minimum do it as an alternate class in a similar way to Ninja or AP were...

I think some of you are confused!

I am not intending to take the Divine Paragon archetype, and so boons are not a consideration. My choice of Arshea was based on it being the only deity that I am aware of that gets both Charm and Liberation domains.

I'm looking at devising an outstanding tank and buffer cleric.

- Going to dump CHA and take the Foundation of Faith archetype to make me a bit more SAD.
- Samsaran to grab Mirror Image off the Adept list
- Worshipping Arshea gets me the following domains:

Charm (Love sudomain) = the excellent Adoration and then later, swift action Charm Person via Charming Smile

Liberation (maybe Freedom subdomain) = eventually effectively immune to anything that would stop or hinder me from moving normally

With the putting extra ability points into CON for better HP and FORT save + Mirror Image pre-buff + domain powers + bit of regen ability from archetype + making sure I armour and shield up, I reckon that's about as good a tank build as I can get.

Any thoughts on alternatives or improvements?

Hmmm... yes I see. I suppose at the least it does provide some additional reward for investing in CON, which is the 1 stat that every class can get good mileage from.

I was looking at it and saw that it stacks with Divine Paragon... I was thinking of a caster cleric build aligned with a decent deity to get the best from Divine Paragon.

I saw on the archetype review section, that this archetype is a +1 on Power compared to the vanilla cleric.

Now I know that it trades out all channel energy which I know isn't the best ability but does at a minimum provide some free out of combat healing for everyone.

Looking at the FOF, the abilities that it gets largely centre around getting some very limited uses and duration of fast healing.

I really don't see any plus points.... at an optimistic best it is an even trade off. And yes I am factoring in the ability to focus more on CON.

It's pathetic and anticlimactic when a major enemy is one-shotted. It's probably even worse when it happens to one of the main characters.

A tad overdramatic.....

Granted its not ideal but it can happen.... and hence by the divine power of mathematics, I declare the same to apply to PCs.

I can say 100% that my players greatly appreciate the absence of dice fudging in my games where all combat roles are openly rolled. The PCs
also love their chance to shine.

The risk of death is everpresent in combat as it should be in a fantasy setting.

It's up to me to design challenging encounters whereby the risk of BBEGs getting one-shotted is minimised and it's up to the party to develop effective tactics and characters to minimise their risk of getting one-shotted.

Undeniably fair and balanced.

UGGGHHH.... I despair at these type of threads....

Far too much 'cotton-wooling' of PCs.... if a PC can one shot a BBEG why should the same risk not apply to them?

I'm not saying SOS spells be lobbed out at every opportunity against PCs but the fact is as you level up then spells from bad guys will become more problematic.

When I GM for a party of 4, one of my favourite tests for them is to occasionally put them against 2 equal level Cleric and Wizard (or sometimes a Sorceror and Oracle)..... my PCs always enjoy it as I always vary the types of Cleric and Wizard they come across, and frequently use 'unpleasant' spells against them.

Much better idea...

Divine Paragon of Nivi Rhombodazzle, and take the Exalted boons as part of your class feature.

Now you already get access to Mirror Image and Greater Invis through your domains and deity... no need to PrC at all.

And if you want a cherry on the cake, the 3rd boon is a stormer even with it kicking in at 14th level...... with the 'Fates Favoured' trait at 14th level you can add a +8 to any D20 roll as an immediate action, for your CHA bonus x per day.

AND if you want to keep things thematic but also make your GM weep on a regular basis.... take Peacemaker as a feat and Mediator as a trait and use them with the spell Charitable Impulse on your enemies.

Ps I was going to suggest using a Persistent MM rod too with the above but I figured its not worth getting murdered by your GM over. ;)))

An interesting one is Implosion and Wail of the Banshee.... thematically they are sort of the wrong way round in terms of their lists.

Implosion is the better spell due to many creatures being immune/highly resistant to death effects at mid-higher levels. Also a creature with no hearing would be immune.

But interestingly, Paizo obviously picked up on this and the spells have been put in the opposite lists for PF2.

This is a tricky one, but I think I agree. As someone who has tried to make a which that avoids the usual suspects in terms of hexes (Slumber etc), it comes into very sharp relief just how little offence there is in the Witch list.

Which just channels people back towards Slumber again.

You have to remember that the Witches list is supplemented by her Patron spells.

Pretty much all the healing spells on wizard/sorcerer lists. Clerics already get a bunch of other perks including full armour they don't need that exclusivity as well.

Not to fast.... there is a school of thought that believes that spells dealing with the 'life' and 'death' energies should be the preserve of divine casters, and especially clerics.... and thus Wiz/Sorc should not only not get to any healing/inflicting spells but also many other spells from the school of Necromancy.

One of my nit-picky peeves with PF1 is that all healing/inflicting spells should come under the school of Necromancy.

And I do think that armour usage should be toned down a bit for certain divine classes.

It's not EXACTLY synergistic, but I'd argue a Cleric of Pulura (very similar to Desna) works very well thematically to go into the Stargazer PrC. Honestly I can't figure out how Stargazer ISN'T a straight upgrade from Cleric:

Thats the point.... it is a straight upgrade... hence why it got the PFS banned bat!

In fairness due to the high crapness of the Pulura domains, I would mostly only recommend it as a PrC if you have a single domain Cleric archetype

Samsaran Herald Caller of Shub-Niggurath (Feather) for the win....

Standard action summoning, animal companion, Mystic past life antics, Dreamed Secrets, good skills, great saves and 2nd best spell list to top it off..... you're a monster.

If you're a PFS purist then go for Erastil instead and invest a bit in archery.

Thinking more on it, I would've liked to see a d6 wis-based divine class, a d10 int-based arcane class, and a d10 occult class.

This would let me fill out a grid of classes available for a setting idea I had.

d10 arcane - ___
d8 arcane - magus
d6 arcane - witch
d10 divine - paladin
d8 divine - inquisitor (changing to prepared casting)
d6 divine - ___ (priest type class here)
d10 psychic - ___ (id rager is the closest substitute)
d8 psychic - bard (changing to psychic casting)
d6 psychic - psychic
barbarian, brawler, kineticist, slayer, swashbuckler

alchemist, druid (changed to d6), and bloodrager would be from the 'mysterious other continent'

I have seen discussions on other forums that said the Inquisitor should have been a PrC or at least an archetype rather than a separate class. Mechanically and historically a member of the Inquisition would have had to be an established and trusted member of the clergy beforehand.

The cleric should be what the Warpriest is now.

I would keep the Druid at D8 - due to AC and Wildshaping making it an inherently more combat capable chassis than the cleric, combined with its weaker spell list.... D8 is about right.

I like the idea of this thread, but far too many of the suggestions are archetypes NOT classes

A new class in order to be viable would itself have to be able to formulate archetypes

I'm a big fan of a Corefinder concept, but it comes down to what degree you are looking to modify the game

Are we talking a small, mid or large overhaul?