On page 21 of the Bestiary: "For each character in the party beyond the fourth,
So, if I have 5 PCs and I want to run a HIGH-Difficulty Encounter, I need to come up with around ~100 xp worth of obstacles/foes (80 for the normal 4 party, +20 per pc over). BUT, do I award the group 100xp each...or do I award the 80? I've been doing the latter, but then, out of the blue, despite being 6 sessions into a PF2 campaign, it felt funky. Thoughts? (Thanks in advance!)
Session 2 - Starting “The Lost Star” Setup
* I gave a bit of narrative over the top to wrap up last session and tie this together, but then started them at Deverin’s Manor.
* My prep work was pretty basic.I adjusted for a 5 party size based on BESTIARY playtest rules. I also tweaked treasure parcels to match (also adjusting for things they earned last session). Other prep continues to be getting used to the system. Actual Play ENCOUNTER: SEWER OOZE
ENCOUNTER: Goblins in A2
ENCOUNTER: Mindfog Mushroom
ENCOUNTER: Giant Centipedes
We stopped there, as they noticed a shiny object beneath the rubble. They picked it up to reveal a…AND I STOPPED THERE...always leave them wanting more. (Admittedly, off-book...but I’m just playing with the system). Big Takeaways said wrote:
My To Do Before Session 3 Read Up onResonance Death & Dying Furious Focus Make Power/Spell/Feat Cards Make Condition Cards
Me, the GM: Longtime TTRPG guy. Most recently lots of 5e. Have written, 3rd party, Ennie-nominated stuff for Pathfinder and 4e. Just loves games. Setup:
My group is very beer & pretzels. We make characters and roleplay, but we like rolling dice, snacking, drinking, and yucking it up. We are all in our later 30s. I’m the DM. 3-5 players per session. Character Creation:
I did extend it over two nights. Night 1 = board games seguing into character creation. Night 2 = fleshing out motivations, alignment, equipment, etc. and playing for about 2.5 hours. The PCs:
GM Prep
While not starting with an AP, I plan on seeding opportunities as they move throughout the world to become embroiled with any of them. I also stealing liberally from...well..everything. I like creating scenarios and hooks, and letting the PCs go where they will. For this session, I greatly reworked an old Dungeon Magazine ["Wild in the Streets," Dungeon #62] and seeded three possible threads. I had the PCs starting near the docks of Magnimar, when a crate fell revealing a trio of firepelt cougars (Level 0 Bobcats). These bewildered and feral beasts just so happened to attack the nearest PC, but also
- Jeminda -- a bureaucrat...who is missing gold from Ravenmoor (Leads to "Feast of Ravenmoor"). - And the cats belong to Master Basaalee Mindavu...an evil ranger who run’s an animal fight club in Magnimar. Hooks aplenty. Prepping was easy. Grabbed some statblocks that made sense (bobcats). Picked out my 1st level treasure parcels if needed. Wrote down motivations for the NPCs...and we we’re off. Actual Play
The combat pitted 3 Level 0 Bobcats vs. 3 PCs. This should be a High Difficulty Level 1 Encounter. But, to be fair, I had 2 of the 3 bobcats focus fire on pedestrians (Deverins & Jeminda) thus opening up my hooks into further story. Things went pretty well for the PCs. Fighter oneshot his cougar and the ranger grabbed the other two: via his bear companion (Teddy) and an arrow. Skill rolls and the like were all intuitive to anyone who has played a version of D&D 3.0 on. Lingering Thoughts
So for example: PC 1 says wait do these cougars look familiar? DM says, that is a Recall Lore skill (or whatever) and so on. Again, if you have super-invested players, and as they become more familiar with the rules, let them help. The point being...and this was a pitfall of 4e’s power system ... clearly defined labels can limit the imagination of some players. They don't react to the world...they seek to implement a predefined power or trait on it. However, as PF2’s list of actions/activities is fairly broad, I don’t foresee that happening. I.E. They seemed to have reversed engineered this...people do whatever, these prescribed actions just help map how they affect the world. Anyways, that is session 1. A lot of preamble, but I’ll make sure to get more crunchy with my thoughts as we move forward. (We played session2 last night...very combat heavy. I'll post soon. If readers have questions, feel free to ask. I'll answer the best I can. So far, I like the system.)
I'm sure I am missing something, so any help would be appreciated. Expert Armor reduces the check penalty by 1. It does not raise the AC by 1...right? Thus, Expert Leather Armor, for example, isn't useful at all...as regular Leather Armor already lacks a check penalty. This sound right...or does it get a bonus to AC?
The-Last-Rogue wrote:
Found it. Unfortunate that they have not fixed the changes in the PDF rulebook document yet, but I can only imagine how hectic things are. So far, I'm really enjoying 2e.
graystone wrote: Now I just have to click enough times on the download link to get the errata. It took me a week and dozens of clicks to get lucky and download the screen reader players handbook. If the errata goes as well, I'll get the errata by the time part 2 of the survey comes out... :P Yeah--what is up? I've re-downloaded twice. Is there a list of the errata somewhere? (Failed Perception Check)
1. Do you currently like pathfinder 1e? (I know it sounds loaded, but please bare with me.)
2. Did you once like pathfinder 1e but now find it troublesome? (feel free to give details.)
3. Do you like 4th or 5th edition D&D? (Also sounds loaded but again no judgments) Truly enjoy 5e...but wish it had more character input and decisions when leveling (and this is from someone who DMs 95% of the time). Some ideas I liked in 4e, but the game got too gamist, too clunky...I prefer 5e's story over mechanics approach...harkens back to 2e for me. But, I'm always drawn to that 4e style...*something* is there WotC didn't quite get at. I'm hoping PF2 does. 4. Which are you looking for class balance, smoother high level play, more options, or even all of those things? (Small edit: these weren't meant to be mutually excursive, I just want the gist of what you're looking for, feel free to add additional thoughts/desires as well.)
5. How do you feel about making the game more accessible in general?
6. Are you willing to give up on accessibility if you can still gain all of the benefits listed in question 4?
7. Would you be willing to play an alternative rules system then what we have been presented? (A different version of pathfinder 2nd edition if you will).
8. And if you said yes to the above question what would you like to see in that theoretical game? (Most of you will see what I'm doing here, I'm finding common ground) A style of game that supports the pillars of play and, most importantly, supports DMs running thrilling games that increasingly busy/distracted/time-shortened players can enjoy.
Colette Brunel wrote:
Is anyone else seeing this post as the most passive-aggressive way of noting they, personally, are displeased with the Playtest version? Spoiler: Is anyone else noting how passive-aggressive my post is, too!
Dαedαlus wrote:
Um...not to be a jerk...and apologies if it comes across that way...but what about the thrill of advancing the story, of making choices that reflect a narrative arc as opposed to a gamist one? Why would you keep playing? Because you love the core of fantasy rpgs ---the progression of a character through a carefully guided world at the hands of a DM...the camaraderie of the table of friends playing a game...that thrill you get when you find a magic item as opposed to buying the optimal one so you can inch past your previous cap. I understand and like the art of building a cool character as much as the next person...but there are so many reasons to play this game. Chiefly...telling a collaborative story with your friends in a semi-competitive, oft-twisting and unexpected manner. ---
Dwarves. If I recall, you're not the biggest fan of them. But, I have to say I like the Quest for Sky tweak on them in Golarion while maintaining all the essential dwarfiness that--many--players like. Have you guys ever considered a dwarf-centric AP? Rooting through abandoned Sky Citadels or tracing some historical aspect of the Dwarves, etc? If so, what held you back? If not, any particular reasons? Thanks for your time!
Heck, I'd like to see material components become more a tradition of wizard magic. While I am in favor of material components largely being handwaved (a few gp every visit to town to refill / NOT excessive tracking of silver dust, etc.). I do like those moments when the spellcaster cannot get to his/her pouch, etc. But,I'd love to see bonus effects to spells if you have really cool, quest-found, or above cost purchased components that you occasionally did track - not bat guano but dire bat guano...etc. But, that's me.
Mechanically, it all sounds very interesting. However, I just don't *like* monsterish races.It ruins the verisimilitude. Now again, this is a very easy fix...I simply tell my players that our Golarion doesn't have goblin heroes. All in all, I'm really excited and liking the PF2 stuff, but I'll probably take a pass on the goblin ancestry. TLR
Gallyck wrote:
How is this different than saying, "I'm going to Power Attack." or "I'm using Combat Expertise." It is, literally, the same thing...re: activating move or stance.
A slightly adjacent thought about bestiaries...the Art? I realize they've got a lot on their plates right now, but I wonder how much Paizo has considered reimagining the looks of some beasts. Some are obviously iconic now -- they are not going to change the goblin, for example. Nor should they (probably). But, what about some others? I've always been a bit tepid about the Hobgoblin, for example. I just think it is an interesting question -- obviously a new edition allows the team to rethink things, visual representation included, but just like there may be some mechanical traditions they do not want to delve far from...there is likely some art they really want to stay close too (Maybe even the bulk?). ---Guess, I'm just thinking out loud.
Banecrow wrote:
It was always a limited resource. X amount of charges...X times per day...and so on. This just removes an arbitrary system and replaces it one with a unified concept that ties into an already existing trope of Charisma-as-force-of-personality having a tie to innate magic. I can see the complaint that it is clunky or gamist...but the resource management part has always been there just not pronounced and unified.
One of the things resonance does is firmly entrench potions as magical, thus opening up more mundane alchemical items to fill the niche of low-level wands and stuff (acid flaks, smoke sticks, healing elixirs). My sense from the GCP stuff is that alchemical items fill some of these niches without costing resonance. Moreover, anything that makes herbalism/alchemy a more intrinsic part of the game is good. In many ways, I think it also fits the flavor of Golarion well already, too.
KingOfAnything wrote:
Agreed, KingofAnything... See: Hit Points (Hopefully)
JulianW wrote:
While I agree with you that resonance seems clunky (I'd like to try it before passing final judgement), I think this is an overly harsh review of something you've not quite used yet. I appreciate and applaud a mechanic focused on making magic items feel special. PF is already pretty much an optimization game for many--hard to make it more so. As a once heavy 4e player, I'd say it wasn't so much optimization but, unfortunately, the illusion of choice. You either were optimized or not, in a sense. And while the rule is gamist...so, so many elements of PF (and other RPGs are). If this is the one that breaks narrative immersion for you, I get it. But, saying your FORCE OF PERSONALITY helps you maintain and harness the powerful magic of these wondrous items isn't that much different to me than saying Bob is better at wizard spells because his intelligence is higher.
I'm doing some miniature shopping. Unlike some other, admittedly more miniature-focused sites, Paizo's store doesn't reveal the amount in-stock. I don't want to order a bunch then get alerted that some % of the order cannot be filled thus leaving me to deal with a portion of what I wanted. Is there a workaround? Is it simply going through the ordering process that alerts you to the fact, pre-checkout, that certain #s cannot be filled? Apologies in advance if this question has been answered before. I gave a quick glance but missed it if it was. Best.
PREAMBLE:
Also, the thing I failed to mention about last session was Aldern Foxglove’s obsession… He is all in on BillyBob Avertin. He’s taken to calling him the “next sheriff of Sandpoint.” Ok…onwards SESSION 2 (Friday, July 15, 2016)
Bastion, Daergar, & Nyrin are all staying at the Rusty Dragon. After a night of celebration, all three would-be heroes find themselves served a sumptuous breakfast by Bethana and seated together. They’ve little in common despite being 3 of the 5 so-called “Wolves of Sandpoint”…after all, they barely know each other. As they eat their semi-awkward breakfast together, Ven Vinder sidles up to the trio and heartily thanks them, telling them he would like to offer them 10% off anything at the Sandpoint General Store. There is, of course, a catch… he turns their heads back to his own table where is beautiful daughters are dining before solemnly eyeing each hero and warning them, “They’d best not think about charming his girls with their heroic exploits and what not.” The group gets his drift, although the Daergar Agatebeard scoffs openly at the notion he’d even be attracted to such dainty human girls. DM ROGUE’S NOTES:
Spoiler:
So 2 things about my reworking of this encounter.
1. I downplayed Shayliss’s overt sexuality and seduction attempt because I have at my table two 12-year old boys and their fathers…while I’m sure even as written it could stay PG-13, I just didn’t want to even mess with the potential awkwardness. 2. Having Ven be the speaker/actor in this scene allowed some foreshadowing—he was able to stick in a few lines about how he wasn’t trying to pin the heroes as unfit suitors like that lumber mill boy who’s been dallying with his eldest, Katrine. This hopefully registers when the Skinsaw Murders kicks off properly. Monster in the Closet
At one point, they are stopped by an eager little boy named Aerin Bennet who claims a goblin from the raid is hiding in his closet. His mother quickly comes over and shoos him away. She apologizes and says her boy is just worked up from yesterday’s hectic events and that he is partaking in a bit of hero worship. However, young Aerin is adamant much to his mother’s increasing chagrin. BillyBob & Amerdin agree to look into it. After quickly searching his room they uncover and dispatch the single remaining goblin with ease. Aerin’s hero worship level’s up, and the mom is uber-grateful. DM ROGUE’S NOTES:
Spoiler:
I cribbed the idea of having Aerin approach the party sooner and his mother trying to play off the boy’s warnings as simple overactive imagination. The idea being, if the party does investigate early enough they can stave off the death of Aerin’s father. I’m also making a point of having this family figure in narratively later as a reward for the team’s proactiveness here. Invitations, Meetings, and Healings
The PCs accept…mainly motivated by free horses and the possibility of a rich benefactor. Then they split up. Nyrin and Daergar go off to help Father Zantus & Naffer Vosk deal with the wounded at Sandpoint Cathedral, and Bastion follows up on his pre-existing reason for traveling to Sandpoint—to discuss Thasillonian lore with one Brodert Quink. Quink seems unphased by the presence of a tiefling once Bastion starts praising the scholar’s writings on the subject of Thassilon. While Bastion doesn’t share much of his own work on the subject, not that the long-winded Quink gave him much chance, the two do bond over tea, books, and a brief tour of the Old Light (where Quink expounds on his belief it was never a lighthouse but actually an old arcane weapon). Quink then shows Bastion a secret hatch he found on the ground floor and enters “Quest-Giving” mode… he’s too old, the town’s to dismissive of his concerns, etc., but he’d pay 100gp to Bastion if he’d check out the lower levels, return any Thassilonian artifacts and also map the lower levels. Bastion, of course, accepts. And, not a moment too soon, as a minor cathedral functionary shows up with a summons to the graveyard. DM ROGUE’S NOTES:
Spoiler:
I am adapting Wayfinder #9’s Gateway to Nar-Voth by Mark Garringer for this. In reality, I am just using the map and descriptions. There is no evil wizard or drow waiting down there for them…just millennia old and untouched Thassilonian ruins. I am also changing to be more appropriate for a 2nd-level party. It is mostly a red herring, although it could become a base of operations for them as well as foreshadowing more of ancient Thassilon.
Also, regarding Rogors Craesby…anytime I can foreshadow, I do. This is a perfect chance to meet a guy over the course of the boar hunt, see his relationship to Foxglove (as well as see him worry about his master’s health—early stages of some ghoul fever), before becoming an enemy in the Skinsaw Murders. The Desecrated Vault
Good thing too, since after he budges the vault fully open and enters, he is beset and dropped by a handful of skeletons. 4 skeletons. I rolled hot and dropped him with a critical. Fortunately, Amerdin was able to lay on hands, and with the tiefling providing magical blast support, the frontline was able to make short work of the skeletons. A thorough inspection turned up the following:
This last fact triggered alarm bells for the PCs, BillyBob especially. He immediately began questioning Zantus about this, and the priest acknowledged they never found enough remains to justify the creation of another sarcophagi. But, Billybob didn’t stop there --- he immediately suspected Nualia, who he knew, as not the culprit of the goblin raid but the arson of the church those 5 years ago. His theories ranged from demonic possession to black magic to revenge against Father Tobyn for something…he was so worked up by the possibilities, the group had to calm him down and remind him they had no evidence yet as to what happened. DM ROGUE’S NOTES:
Spoiler:
BillyBob is played by 12-year old in his first D&D campaign. He was rapid-fire spitballing ideas in a super-enthusiastic manner only to be told that his theories might be right…learned a bit about how the game goes. There is no shortcut to the end…even if you think you’ve got the solution, D&D demands you put said theory in play. Beneath Old Light
Nyrin the Halfling monk takes the worst of it, but no one drops before they dispatch the deadly beasts. As we ended our session, the group was standing in the moonlit ruins of Old Light staring down a shaft of which they couldn’t see the bottom and debating if they had time to go down and get out before meeting their benefactor for an all-day boar hunt. 3 Fun/Cool Things wrote:
because they're fun. Also, 5e rules, Pathfinder fluff. The Cast: Bastion Sorrow
Spoiler:
Lived a life in solitude in Cheliax until his studies and the urging of his patron suggested that Thassilonian magic may help him alleviate the condition of his fellow tieflings.
TRAIT: Everything that happens is part of the cosmic plan. IDEAL: Logic. Emotion is for fools. BOND: Your belief that the Thassilonian rulers could be revived is over most people’s heads…and for those it isn’t, it could be dangerous. FLAW: There’s nothing you wouldn’t risk to know more. Azmades of Erastil
Spoiler:
Raised by the town jailor, Vachedi, and welcomed in to the town despite his heritage, Azmades is one of Sandpoint’s best and brightest. Serving with the guard has been rewarding, but the pull of adventure and Erastil’s call interest the young man in moving on.
TRAIT: Eager. Somehow nothing in your hard life to date has been able to dampen your cheer, exuberance and optimism. IDEAL: Glory. In honorable battle is where one’s legacy is made. BOND: Your life is devoted to a simple notion…you will stamp out every evil you find. FLAW: Violence is too often your answer to life’s many problems. Nyrin
Spoiler:
Taken in by the caretaker of a Riddleport-based Shrine to Irori, you grew up dedicated to the path of enlightenment. However, when your caretaker passed, you realized to achieve said enlightenment, you would have to venture into the world to test your abilities and steel your resolve.
TRAIT: There is no enemy you cannot find common ground with. Empathy is your most subtle weapon. IDEAL: You always help those in need. No Matter the Cost. BOND: You believe enlightenment means putting others before you. You will always protect the ‘little’ guy. FLAW: You place to much faith in those who share your or similar faiths. Daergar Agatebeard
Spoiler:
Sent as an emissary of Janderhoff’s religious elite, Daergar arrived in Sandpoint seeking to establish a relationship with the newly raised cathedral. But, as a merchant-cleric, he is very keenly aware other opportunities might present themselves.
TRAIT: Perfectionist. You demand the most from yourself and others. IDEAL: It is the duty of the civilized to strengthen the bonds of community and security. BOND: You aim to prove to everyone that you are world’s greatest jeweler. FLAW: You are greedy. You don’t part with money easily, and you haggle over everything. William Robert Alvertin
Spoiler:
Son of the Alvertin family who owns Sandpoint’s finest bakery and brother to Casp Alvertin, an unfortunate casualty of the Late Unpleasantness, BillyBob is a dedicated young member of the guard. He joined, in part, to make sure what happened to his brother never happened to anyone again…especially him.
TRAIT: You can stare down a hell hound without flinching. IDEAL: People who just follow orders blindly may as well be embracing tyranny. BOND: You fight for those who cannot fight for themselves. FLAW: You’d rather eat your armor than admit when you are wrong. SESSION 1
If you are familiar in the least with this campaign, you know how things go down. Speeches. Games. Swallowtail Release. Good Eats… I made sure to sneak in some background here and there…the speeches directly mention Nualia (amongst other deceased), the Late Unpleasantness, etc. As for the PCs, during the festivities things were pretty copacetic…the ½ Orc Paladin and Human Fighter, the two local boys, are played by 13-year old boys (they’re dads are the Warlock and Cleric). It was the first time for them, and the first time for our group to have such young players. It was a blast…made us remember how enthused and un-jaded we used to be. Highlights of the festivities:
Highlights of the fight:
Aftermath:
GM Plans:
Anyways, a lot of fun…I’ll keep this going. For my own sake if nothing else.
I wish Alluria all the best. I designed many of the unique classes for the setting and a good number of monsters too (including Fey Folio). I'm thankful they let me play in their (aquatic version of a) sandbox. I pushed in a lot of weird and non-standard way with those classes (and a few of the monsters), but they were always willing to roll with the directions I took things. -- I have a bunch of those classes reworked for land campaigns somewhere, I need to dig them out.
Cheapy wrote:
Is that right?. It is late, so I may be getting this wrong. Staying Strike lets you lock these people up by, essentially, sacrificing a Sudden Strike. But Sudden Strike says it works only on 'the next attack.' The wording for Whirlwind Attack says 'You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.' Thus, you are, even if it is a single attacking maneuver,making multiple attacks. Therefore, you are really only locking down the first target you roll against. Alternatively, and probably for the best, this interpretation should be up to a given GM. Even if a table likes the idea of Whirlwind Attack getting the full benefit of being a single attack for purposes above, all that really does is make a mid-high level, multi-attribute dependent Marauder really awesome at locking up mobs. And, hey, that sounds kind of cool. EDIT - I Looked at the FAQ. Sudden Strike is modeled after Sneak Attack. Let's assume a whirlwind attack, via the feat, is a single attack or one that strikes all targets simultaneously . . . well, how would sneak attack handle that? <From the FAQ> Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell? No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
I am a little confused. I do not have the disable check. I run into a card that is a barrier with a disable/Dex 10. As Ezren I have a d6 dexterity, but I cannot use thieves tool to add another d6 to this check because it says add 1 dice to your DISABLE check and I would be using a Dex check. Now I could use a d4 disable and add another disable, but not another d6. Right? Additionally, if Merisel, for example, has no weapons in her card and runs into a monster. She uses a d4 to attack it because she has no listed attack skill and, in this case, no weapon card. Right?
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Thanks.
I won't clutter up the threads with a new one, but I do have another, more specific question: MWK TOOLS has two possible uses: Reveal to add 2 dice to YOUR disable check. or Recharge to defeat A barrier less than . . . My reading of this means, if I had this card I could either play it to add dice to my own disable checks . . . or recharge it to get rid of any barrier (regardless of who is confronting it or their location) so long as the barrier meets the cards difficulty specifications. Am I being to liberal here? Thanks, as always, in advance.
Thanks everyone for your help. We had a blast. 5 players (Barbarian, Paladin, Rogue, Ranger, Wizard) in Brigandoom! We beat Jubrayl with only two blessings left in the deck while being able to successfully (temporarily) close all the locations remaining. A lot of fun. Learned some strategy . . . like maybe don't get greedy and wait to close a location. A lot of fun. Like how the villain flees, too. Thanks again.
Cool. While I have a captive audience . . . . When you acquire a card you put it into your deck. You then discard, potentially, so that you do not have more cards in your hand than your hand size, right? Then at the end of the session/adventure, you can refigure your deck based on newly acquired cards, yes?
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