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If a Hag Bloodline Sorcerer took some MC Bard spellcasting feats, and then took the 'Greater Mental Evolution' what would happen?

1) Would it add one spell to each repertoire per spell level? {Treating each list as a separate repertoire.}

2) Would it add one spell per spell level, but you could choose which side the extra spell would go? {Treating both lists as a general 'Repertoire'.}

3) Would it add one extra spell per level to the Sorcerer Spell Repertoire only? {Treating the feat as only applying to the spell repertoire of the class it came from.}

Personally I'm leaning towards 3, but I have not found {and possibly missed} certain rules which would cover and clarify this.


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These are the language percentage/ratio of the creatures within the 1st Bestiary. This does not include any creatures found within any supplemental material. I personally do not plan on updating the list {unless I win the lottery and find myself with a lot more spare time} but anyone is free to do so. There is not going to be any insane “Creatures which know only Draconic and Goblin, and also Gnomish but only during the full moon” or “Creatures which can speak to Sharks” type stats, and there is much room for improvement. Also, there may be errors, but hopeful there a minimal enough. If you do find some, just mention them in the comments {which I encourage people to look at to see corrections} Also, the question is why do this? Well, I did not find something like this {in my quick search anyways}, and language can be an important aspect to both players and DMs. Certain skills and spells rely on a creature understanding what you are saying, and while there may be ways to bypass this {Comprehend Language, Tongues ect}, these may not be accessible to everyone. Plus, if you can, why not save the spell slot?

Languages Known /// Understanding of Language gained through Spells and Abilities. (1)

Common Languages
Common= %41.25 {172/417} /// %44.6 {186/417}
Draconic= %20.38 {85/417} /// %21.58 {90/417}
Dwarven= %3.12 {13/417} /// %7.19 {30/417}
Elven= %6 {25/417} /// %10.07 {42/417}
Gnomish= %2.89 {12/417} /// %6.95 {29/417}
Goblin= %3.36 {14/417} /// %7.43 {31/417}
Halfling= %0.72 {3/417} /// %4.8 {20/417}
Jotun= %7.19 {30/417} /// %11.03 {46/417}
Orchish= %1.92 {8/417} /// %6 {25/417}
Sylvan= %9.11 {38/417} /// %13.19 {55/417}
Undercommon= %5.76 {24/417} /// %9.83 {41/417}

Uncommon Languages
Abyssal= %7.91 {33/417} /// %11.27 {47/417}
Aklo= %8.63 {36/417} /// %11.99 {50/417}
Aquan= %4.56 {19/417} /// %8.15 {34/417}
Auran= %4.08 {17/417} /// %8.15 {34/417}
Celestial= %8.39 {35/417} /// % 9.11 {38/417}
Gnoll= %0.96 {4/417} /// %5.04 {21/417}
Ignan= %7.91 {33/417} /// %11.99{50/417}
Infernal= %7.91 {33/417} /// %9.11 {38/417}
Nercil= %5.04 {21/417} /// %8.87 {37/417}
Shadowtongue= %0 {0/417} /// %4.08 {17/417}
Terran= %2.88 {12/417} /// %6.95 {29/417}

Secret Languages
Druidic= %0.96 {4/417} /// %5.04{21/417}

Other Languages {2}
Other Language: %1.2 {5/417} /// %5.28 {22/417}

Creatures without Languages
No Language: %27.82 {116/417}

Other Info:
Creatures which know at least one Common Language= %54.68 {228/417}
Creatures which know at least one Uncommon Language= %37.89 {158/417}
Creatures which know at least one Common and Uncommon Language= %26.14 {109/417}
Creatures which know at least one Common Language which include ‘Common’= %41.25 {172/417}
Creatures which know at least one Uncommon Language and ‘Common’= %21.1 {88/417}

417 creatures total

Notes
(1) This included any way to constantly understand any language such as always having ‘Tongues’. This does not include creatures which have the ability to temporally understand any language, such as through spellcasting. In total there was 17 I found. If they already understood a language without such means, and therefore accounted in the ‘Language Known’ they were not counted again, which is the reason why there is not always a 17 different between the two stats.

{2} This only includes creatures who only know languages which are not on the Common, Uncommon or Secret list. This does not included creatures which know these types of language in addition to either a Common or Uncommon language. While these languages may be hard to a PC to obtain, they can still be communicated with through spells or other abilities.

*Certain creatures know more languages, however the languages they can know are not definite, and therefore not represented. Any language they definitely {generally} know however are included. These creatures are= Succubus also know three additional mortal languages. Doppelganger also know two additional languages. Janni know one element language. Skulltaker can know additional languages through Skeletal Lore. Tengu Sneak knows 2 additional languages. Vampire Spawn Rogue, Vampire Count, and Vampire Mastermind, knows 1 regional language. Soulbound Doll can know anyone language typically Common. Chuul can know either Common or Undercommon.

*Certain creatures can understand certain languages, but cannot speak it, with one exception. Any language they can understand was included in the stats above. These creatures are= Giant Eagle cannot speak but does understand Auran and Sylvan. Elananx cannot speak but understand Sylvan. Ettin speak a pidgin of Goblin, Jotun and Orchish. Gogiteth can’t speak but understands Undercommon. Hell Hound and Nessian Warhound can’t speak, but understands Infernal. Homunculus can’t speak, but understands Common. Ofalth can’t speak, but understands Common. Pegasus can’t speak, but can understand Common. Quelaunt can’t speak, but can understand Aklo. Reefclaw can’t speak, but can understand Common. Remorhaz can’t speak, but understands Jotun. Shambler can’t speak, but can understand Common, Elven, Sylvan. Slurk can’t speak, but can understand Draconic. Warsworn can’t speak, but can understand Common. Wemmuth can’t speak, but can understand Aklo and Slyvan.

Other Notes:
-Draconic ended up being the 2nd most common language. A lot of Angels, Fiends and Devils know it, however they also have generally have Uncommon languages as well, and most Angels tend to have “Tongues”. Though, if you want a Common language to speak to most of these types of creatures, Draconic is the way to go, plus there are couple of creatures which only know Draconic.

-No one knows Shadowtongue, at least in the 1st Bestiary. This will change {if not already has change} when more creatures are introduced. Still you think at least the Shadow or Greater Shadow would have it.

-Creatures without languages were generally either mindless, or were a type of animal.

-As this only includes the 1st Bestiary, ratios and stats may change as more creatures are introduced. Hopefully though, it can still serve as a rough estimate of language percentage and ratio {at least until the ‘Shadow Bestiary’ introducing 300+ creatures which only know Shadowtongue gets released :p )


Not to get into any specifics, but I ran into this conundrum when, {for a Bard/Wizard character} I would have to make a choice for there LV20 class feat, of either getting an additional 10th level spell slot, or getting the 'Master Spellcasting' feat which {in combination with the 'Breadth' class feat) would give them an extra 5th, 6th 7th and 8th level slot.

Now this is not a question specifically for that character {although you are perfectly happy to comment on it) but on a more general {and perhaps case by case bases, as this decision can very much be based on class combinations, builds, party compositions, good old roleplaying, ect}, which one would you choose= The Extra 10th level spell slot or the Extra 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th level spell slot?

{For the record, the character in question is a rebuild of a old PF1 character, just to see how he would look in the PF2 system, now that I have a better understanding of it, and will never see any actual play. Leaning towards the 5th-8th options has he loved to find ways of casting spells from others lists, and he likes the versatility in being able to swap out spells each day, plus his biggest fear in PF1 was running out of magic when he needed it most, and this gives him more slots to cast. However, his biggest dream in PF1 was to cast 'Wish' something which is now technically possible to do from his own slots thanks to 'Impossible Polymath', and I could see him after achieving this goal, of him wanting to cast 'Wish' but twice.)


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Hello, I would 1st off like to thank you for reading, and thank Paizo for the work they have done on both PF1 and PF2. I have overall enjoyed PF2 so far, and issues that I have with it has been slowly put at easy with each new update. However, a major issue I have is the Bards Versatile Performance feat, something which I have been struggling with from the beginning of the playtest, as it was my favorite feature in PF1, both for use and flavor. While I know this may be a bit long, I have separated it into different sections, so you can just skip over to what you want to read.

What the feat currently does=
You can use Performance instead of Diplomacy to Make an Impression and instead of Intimidation to Demoralize. You can also use an acting performance instead of Deception to Impersonate.

Problems=
By taking parts of other skills and adding them to Performance, it forgets about the skills other uses. You would not be able to use Performance to ‘Gather Information’, ‘Request’, ‘Coerce’, ‘Create a Diversion’, ‘Lie’ or ‘Feint’. And often times you would want to use these actions with the actions allowed by Versatile Performance, for example to ‘Make an Impression’ on a target followed by a ‘Request’, or ‘Impersonate’ followed by ‘Lie’. This then requires at least some investment in these skills, made much more needed after the 1.3 update, as not investing leads to -4 penalty on the check {While the DC in the Skills DCs By Level and Difficulty has been lowed, most of these skills are a roll against a creatures DC, which has not been adjusted.). These leads to the need to invest in these skills, lessening the overall effect of Versatile Performance.
The other problem with Versatile Performance is with how it interacts with Skill Feats. Personally, I saw Skill Feats as a way of your character honing their skill in the Skill, and a reason to invest proficiencies beyond a simple +1. Yet you have an inability to do that with the actions granted by Versatile Performance. For example, you may become Legendary in Performance, and through Versatile Performance, become legendary in the use of ‘Make an Impression’, but without investment in Diplomacy, you would not qualify for Skill Feats such as ‘Group Impression’ (which itself as an effect dependant on Proficiency) and you would need to invest even more to get the higher Levels of Skill Feats for that action. And, as stated before, the more you invest in the skills Versatile Performance covers, the less effective Versatile Performance is. Yet you only have a limited amount of Proficiencies increases, which are being used in part to increase Performance.


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I was looking through the spell section when I noticed something different about the 'Hallucination' spell. Most spells heighten version give you a set bonus for doing so [For example, casting 'Invisibility' at its 4th version allows you to act hostilely without losing it.}

However Hallucination gives you something different when you cast it at a higher level. It gives you choice in how the spell is heightened. For this particular spell, you have a choice to have the effect last longer {if your casting it at 6th level, you can increase the duration from 1 hour to 1 day} or have it affect more creatures {casting it 6th level, you can increase the targets from 1 creature to 10.). And I kinda of want to see this on more spells. I love the idea of having choice in how you heighten the spell {both from a gameplay, and roleplay perspective)

Think about something like this for the aforementioned 'Invisibility' spell. You can choose the original effect, or perhaps you can choose to be invisible to another sense in addition to sight {hearing, smell, heat, life, ect.) From a roleplay perspective I like the idea that when your using more power for the spell {and assumingly having better expertise in how it works because you are a higher level), you can choose what that additional power goes to, in this case either by fixing a flaw with the spell, or adding another aspect to it. From a gameplay perspective I like the idea of choice in spells, as you can be more strategic with them, and bring about more situations that can lead to difficult choices. (For example, say a Wizard is facing off against a Ranger and her Bloodhound. The wizard can use original option of the Heighten Invisibility to stay invisible even when attacking, but the Bloodhound can sniff her out. She may instead use the second option to become invisible both in sight and scent, allowing her to stay hidden from both creatures, but breaks when she attacks.) It can also give a spell new uses, with the price being the spell uses a higher resource {as heightening already does}

Of course, there maybe balancing issues that would have to be addressed if something like this became more common. {Not getting into 'Spells are too Nerfed in PF2/Spells needed to be Nerfed' argument here.) But when you give a spell more options in what it can do, you make it more powerful because of it, as you can then apply it to more situations then before. Let take the Invisibility example above. The limited duration of the spell hampers its ability to be used for Stealth {generally limited to small quick sections.) However, by adding the option to render you invisible to both sight and sound, it increase its use for Stealth, as you can move quicker because you no longer have to worry about noise. So a spell that may have only gotten you into the doorway of the jail cell to free an ally, now gets you all the way into the guard room.

Anyways sorry about the ramblings, and I would love any of your guys thoughts on the idea.


In regards to the subject, where is the feat which allows Bards to learn 10th level spells? The other full casting classes all have 20th level class feats that allows them access to 10th level spells, but this is missing from the Bard. Its also a bit confusing as the Bard preview blog a couple of weeks ago said they were full 10th level casters. Was the feat forgotten in the book, or was there a last minute change to the class?

Other than that, I'm liking a good portion of what I'm seeing, a couple of things I'm a little iffy, but that could change when I see it in action.