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Darkbridger wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

(shrug)

Your mileage may vary, I guess.

Not every build needs to be a damage per round contender.

I'm curious... what are Throwing Weapons supposed to be contenders of exactly? There's a pretty significant gap in support between throwing weapons and bows. Even crossbows have more feats and archetypes floating around for them. I don't think anyone expects throwing weapons (or the Starknife for that matter) to rocket to the top of any damage output contest. But it would be nice if a throwing weapon build actually kind of existed at all, instead of just being a gimmick for melee folks to use on rare occasions.

In history (and by physics) throwing weapons would be just a standby or disruption technique for fighters of other types. For instance, an archer might carry a knife for melee, throwing, repairs and even eating.

Small throwing weapons were more of a distraction, because of how exacting you would have to be to get that exact critical strike with just muscle power and dexterity to to provide force and aim to the throw. I have watched my dad pin a roach to the wall with a folding buck knife from 15-16 feet away, but in a fight, he always said to rely more on your fists and what comes to hand because you can only carry so many knives and it is too easy to miss a prepared target.

Now, spears limit how many you can carry, but you can stab people, stop horses and throw them much farther more efficiently than a knife. Part of this is by learning trajectory so that you can let physics work for you, which does not work as well with small thrown weapons.

No matter how strong you are, there is only so far you can throw with any accuracy. This is why atlatl's, then bows, and then crossbows were invented.

The people that would want to break physics and damage via throwing weapons farther than they can physically throw become wizards. Those that don't want to mess with thrown weapons (other than spears) become archers.

Now, you could always make your own world with modified gravity that allows thrown weapons to be more effective.

Remember that the rule in Pen and paper games are only guidelines. It takes imagination to make it more than just a game of math and statistics.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Frankly - they'd be much more viable if Improved Point Blank Shot didn't exist so they'd have the melee advantage over archers. (I hate that feat so much. I've house-ruled it out of my home games.)

Wait. I when was "Improved Point Blank Shot" added. I see "Improved Precise Shot", but not "Improved Point Blank Shot" in the PRD.

Either way, even with point blank, the archer needs line of sight to hit, while a thrower can just use the same weapons he throws and melee and make attacks around corners and with minimal line of sight breaking.

Plus, the archer that takes Point Blank has to take it instead of another feat that could cause problems for others.

In most cases, most archer characters that I have seen used prefer to keep more distance between them and their targets. So the issues with point blank versus throwers is limited in my experience.


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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

It has four points, not one ;)

(sorry I had to make this joke)

Badum bump. ::: canned chuckle :::

Doomed Hero wrote:


I can see it if it was about half the size it is usually presented as, but they all look like they're about two and a half feet across. They weigh three frickin' pounds. That's the weight of hefty hatchet.

Per the game dynamics, a handaxe (hatchet) is 3lbs, the starknife is depicted in some of the art more on what would be a 6lbs-8lbs weight, not 3lbs, based on the amount of structure metal that would be required. The Starknife is the weight of 3 daggers, not 4 short swords.

This is where GMs need to consider the game dynamics and listed uses over "artist impressions". If you look at the average Alchemist image, the guy would blow himself up just running to a fray 8x out of 10 times.

Starknife weight and damage suggest a smaller than "anime style oversize" weapons. Images make them more like something that you would see next to an anime character like "Cloud" and his sword that he could not be able to properly manuvere in a real combat situation.

Just shows that GMs and players need to consider common sense over excessive imaginative interpretations.


Snowblind wrote:


Let me ask you this.

If there are so many good things about it, why did the design never emerge as a serious weapon in real life?

I can see a few problems with the design immediately
1. The weapon has a blade facing *towards* the wielder. A force applied to the weapon can send it back into the wielder, injuring them. This is terrible in close quarters, where there won't be much room to position the weapon in a way to prevent this.
2. The design of the weapon makes for a bad application of force. What I mean by this is that for punching daggers the arm pushes straight into the dagger. The dagger and the arm form a line, making it easy to put a lot of body movement into the blow and apply a lot of force. You probably can't do this with a starknife,...

Actually, you would be surprised at some of the really odd and weird weapons have shown up around the world. Honestly, the chakram is an weapon that showed up in India and Pakistan, though it was slightly different from what was in Xena. The starknife is actually similar to an alternative form of the chakram that showed up at one point.

The grip of the starknife goes between the blade centers, this means that, if you hold it with your fist forward, in a punching motion, two blades are pointing at each side of the opponent and two on either side of your arm. None are pointing straight back at you. This calls for different approach than normal knife fighting, but it can be done. Yet, like the chakram, would be very limited in scope and trained people to use it.

This design also makes it a pretty decent choice for a blocking "dagger" for a Swashbuckler character.


I see a lot of people saying that it is just flavor, and that the only mechanics is as a knife that its only real benefit is as throwing.

Lets look at the engineering, and then the game mechanics.

Central ring, with a handle in the center, that has four blades protruding in an "N S E W" fashion.

1) It is technically a punching dagger, that can be utilized quickly in all kinds of close quarter situations.

2) It is great for an acrobatic or quick reflex character. If used correctly (and conceptually) it can hit on the jab and the pullback if in the GM and player consider the implications of a punching dagger with blades protruding from its sides in close quarter fighting.

3)It is a heavier throwing weapon, allowing it to do damage (and potentially more damage) at a distance.

Carry four of these instead of 6 regular daggers, and you have an arsenal worthy of any blade master, assassin or bard. Not to mention a cleric/monk of Desna.

The blade in itself, if considered carefully in a campaign, as the potential of having the same "double" capabilities of a quarterstaff in the hands of the proficient.

This means that the basic game mechanics don't quite do the engineering of the weapon justice.


I would also purchase the pack if it was available. I have been a Campaign Cartographer users since the first edition. I do love the new work they did with FT3 updates as well and would love to start a game session with the globe for PF doing a slow spin on the monitor just to give players the full impact of just how big the worlds of Pathfinder are. Some new players don't get the scope of the possibilities until they see more of the actual maps.

And a printed atlas does not always make the same impact in modern days when 3D movies are a common place. I have taken to running every few sessions in GameTable online just to help players stay more active and give more visual and audible stimulation.

Of course, the communities on the ProFantasy site are more likely to "kickstart" a project like this, if someone has not already. I have not been up as much as I like to in the last 3 years.


I have been working on establishing a long term Pathfinder Society group in Goldsboro, NC (USA) for a couple of years now. I was the manager of a game and hobby shop in the area until a new group bought out the old owner.
Once the new owners took over, they began focusing on CCG/TCGs and made the atmosphere rather inhospitable for P&P table top games, removing walls and dividers and getting rid of non-CCG/TCG product.

Our group has been meeting now for over two years, but from one of two rotating homes to keep things balanced. With 7 regular participants, many of them service members, we want to be sure the group keeps going as people occasionally rotate out.

We plan on "plugging in" more to Pathfinder Society, which has become my focus since our transition to Pathfinder from D&D two years ago.

Since we are a small town, there is only one game shop that supported this kind of play, and we will make due with what we can until a new shop, new owners, or new location presents itself.

If you are in the area, please contact me on here so that we can make a connection.