Sgt Spectre's page

I just want to prevent the appearance of another broken class like the "Falchion Fred" Essentially just breaking or finding loop holes in rules to build something the rest of the party can not compare to or keep up with. As things that would challenge one character essentially one shot the rest of the party...

Yes, but I always envisioned a Power attack as a wind up (like a baseball bat swing), and then a huge swing for the fences(again baseball reference), basically raw power at the expense of everything else.

hrmm, ok, I was just at odds with it because one you are using your strength but overexerting your muscles to the point that you are essentially losing your accuracy with haymaker wild swings... but somehow your wild haymakers are extremely precise and accurate.
Just struck me as on oxy moron.

ah, I was just worried largely because I have 1 Veteran Player and a lot of new players, and the Veteran is using a lot of options while the newer players are deciding to just stick with many basics, which is creating a serious gap in damage output.

a vague example would be as the Veteran generates say 2d6+14 damage and attacks twice, while the others dead 1d8+4 damage and attacks twice.

Its just a situation where the newer players cant essentially play and keep up with the veteran.

I could limit character race, class and item limitations to negate this, as well as all the myriad of regional traits out there. But perhaps that would be stifling. I am largely just worried about newer players getting discouraged about playing because they are always over shadowed by the Veteran Player. The Veteran is an excellent player however, but sometimes the characters, while in character bicker and in-fight and the Veteran sometimes because of game mechanics knowledge, and the knowledge of proper application of spells comes off as some what bully like. I really want all the players to be able to shape events around them without really creating a "Main" character and forcing others into "Supporting Character" roles, and by that I don't mean support classes... I mean like they are always forced, moved, intimidated, bluffed etc.. into doing things at the behest of the Veteran.

No I am the GM

A player was explaining this to me, but I was merely confirming.

Thanks bro

*edit*

I was just confirming that my assumptions were right, in that it didn't fit the very strict requirements to be a black blade.

the Estoc does seem kind of overpowered.
it can benefit from being used as a two handed weapon, and can gain weapon finesse but only when wielded as a one hander.

hmm or maybe that's just versatility...
its damage and crit averages will also be higher/ better.

I know it says that it must be a one handed slashing, rapier or sword cane to get this effect, the argument posted to me was that it can be used one handed, but it isn't slashing, but the argument posted to that is that it is the bigger version of the rapier and can still be used with one hand with the feat.

But it still doesn't go read as written then.

I.e.
its not a one handed slasher, a rapier or a sword cane.

Just wondering if I can use Weapon finesse to attack with my Dexterity and use Power Attack at the same time.

It just seems off because I have weapon Finesse, which involves me using my dexterity instead of my strength to attack my enemy.... but using power attack, an ability that uses brute strength to lose accuracy... Brute Strength is the exact opposite of Weapon Finesse.

I am aware as all the read as written versus read as intended going about.... but this seems a tad off.

So I have read at places, that you can have multiple archetypes for the same class as long as they dont overlap?

Is that addressed anywhere else?

Could you do experimental gunsmith (Gnome) ARG and Gun Tank UC?

thanks again

But the Final conclusion is that no spell can end at a level lower than it started.

so a first level spell can never become a 0 level spell or cantrip

You add the merciful spell metamagic feat to it, and that makes a spell non lethal. Now that the spell has a metamagic feat attached you add the traits: Wayang Spell Hunter and Magical Lineage, there was something else that I was told that could be used, Tenebrous or something....

but basically it lowers a 2nd level spell that has a metamagic feat on it to become two levels lower... so 2nd level minus 2 equals zero... which one would think could be a cantrip or orison.... and thus infinite and not expended....

but the rules have been errated/ faq'ed so its not eligible anymore.

Gotcha thanks guys

Because the thought of essentially 20 spiritual hammers flying about the battle field felt incredibly broken to me.

*Edit for below*

Roger, so a spell that is 3rd will always be a 3rd level spell, they are just there to offset the increase in the spell slot level gained by metamagic feats. They cant cause the spell to go lower than what it started.

Ok, so here goes

I have a cleric and or oracle

they are casting spiritual weapon.
They get Trait Magical lineage
Benefit: Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level.

and then get Merciful Spell
Benefit: You can alter spells that inflict damage to inflict nonlethal damage instead. Spells that inflict damage of a particular type (such as fire) inflict nonlethal damage of that same type.

Level Increase: None (a merciful spell does not use up a higher-level spell slot than the spell’s actual level.)

or Trait:
Wayang Spellhunter
Benefit: You grew up on one of the wayang-populated islands of Minata, and your use of magic while hunting has been a boon to you. Select a spell of 3rd level or below. When you use this spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would.

So does that mean they effectively cast Spiritual Weapon as a 0 level cantrip/ orison?
so they cast it each level and it lasts for up to their level... so a level 10, has 10 spiritual weapons dealing force damage for which there is no DR or energy resistance? So Every level they stand to do 10D8 every turn, even if its only stun/ subdual damage, they just slit its throat after combat since its out cold.

Is it being read or interpreted wrong?
Thanks just needing some help soon.

Basically the swarm of Spiritual Weapons is kinda getting out of hand.

To bring this back on track, I did mention that I play PFS. So level caps at 12 (11 being the real last level of play actually). I know things will be more difficult as levels rise, and no matter how much I try to spin it it's lagging behind a regular fighter.

Spells I'd realistically focus on are ones with no save, magic missle, stone call, etc that just can't be avoided by my typically low int save. I can add a +1 to int at 4th level and +2 int headband for a 16 total, that will cover learning spells for his entire PFS career.

Still spell effectively covers what an Eldritch Knight does with his swift action. Yet I may go into Eldritch Knight at some time because it is definitely nice and it doesn't restrict some spells like a Magus does.

Arcanist may be interesting but I don't own the book, and won't be buying it for a while so in PFS that means it's not an option for me unfortunately.

Bard is not the direction I want to take the character as that involves performances and art (music/dance/etc). I have a bard already and this character is more of a physically fit character that's forced to study, so he's naturally more inclined to physical work and stamina instead of being the center of attention or musically/artistically gifted.

So Eldritch Knight may be the way to go, I'd enter into it by normal means and not by the Divine Scryer shoe-in though. Any suggestions on Sorcerer or Wizard selections or race for this character?

Ahhh playing in an official PFS game, hrmm well so much for creating a new class, dunno if any of the new classes in the advanced class book could help either?

*edit* Bloodrager maybe? Dunno haven't done more than a passing glance at the class as of yet.

video: Woodwwad - How to Create a Character for D&D or Pathfinder

@Zhayne - saying something doesn't work I think is an overstatement. It can work, maybe just not as epic as other choices. This isn't World of Warcraft and characters aren't determined by their DPS, Stats, or epic Saves.

So far I'm thinking a Transmutation Wizard with Combat Casting feat, Focused Mind trait, and Still Spell metamagic to avoid Arcane Spell Failure and having to take his hand off a 2handed weapon. Weapon maybe a Greataxe, Quarterstaff, Heavy Flail, Elven Curved Blade, Earthbreaker, or Scythe. Guess it would depend on the race.

I'm sure there's feats, traits, and etc that would make this character be less subpar. That's the idea, that this magic user reverts to what he's confident and naturally good at when he gets frustrated or discouraged when casting spells.

Orc: You hold your tongue or I'll cut it out.
Student: You heard me, your kind smell worse than wretched goblins.
*Orc pulls his sword out*
*Student in reaction bares his Quarterstaff and begins casting a spell*
*Spell goes off but the Orc saves vs spell*
*Orc charges and swings at the student, hitting him hard*
*Student flys into a rage*
Father's voice of Student ringing in his head: "Study hard and you'll make a great wizard. Keep studying, do your homework, keep studying."
Student yells: Study this upside your head! *Cracks orc in the head*

It's not the most optimal concept or the best dps character ever. But I think it would make for an interesting character.

LOL sounds cool, reminds me of an anime called Rune Soldier Louie actually. If your a decent role player, not a munchkin and are on good with your GM, I would probably try to create my own class for that then, and if you want you can post it and get opinions on it.

will definitely track this thread.

The class says uses the Str, Con and Dex so there is no option the Eidolon supplies those stats. Otherwise a high con would be awesome and probably mandatory for a synthesist.

Magic items that increase your physical abilities still work as you share the effect with the eidolon. Just be careful of the timing when you are casting boosting spells.

ah we may house rule that then, so people are less inclined to create dump stats, and if the caster was tougher (con) than the eidolon he would suddenly become weaker in a manner of speaking.

Ok, so the question came up, the book says when fused you use the Eidolons stats for Str, Dex and Con and the casters for the Mental stats as the character is fused and the Eidolon is effectively controlled by the caster using its physical stats, but what if the Caster has a higher stat physically than the Eidolon, would you use the higher stat or would that only be applicable as a house rule?

thanks and sorry for the Necro, I just couldn't find an answer elsewhere.

Well just hoping to see some of the technology that cancels spells and magic effects or creates null magic fields/ zones as all I have seen are magical bits that cancel technology, like stopping a bullet... but an arrow goes through just fine?

So the Heroes are going to awake a squad of Sisters of battle? Whatever happened to the Space marine unit?

The players are neither of those groups right?

How closely are you going to follow the lore of Warhammer 40k?
as the Idols and false gods of Golarian would probably make the Imperials want to purge the entire world?

If The Imperium visited Golarion, they would poop themselves in rage at all the heresy,magic,mutants and whatnot and procede with orbital bombardments.

Exterminatus....

heh cool

still, not THE imperium, but I just had an idea of a galactic empire or some sort, kind of dark but not evil... the Imperium just came to mind.

Which is why I'm playing an Andriod/Synthesist ;)

I honestly never thought of an android AND a synthesis Summoner.

The host is the machine, which is wearing a biological armor heh.

"Primal Host" from Little Red Goblin Games.

Is that a class or a race or simply another template?

I kinda can see fluffing the Aegis class from DSP Psionics as bio armor if your open to 3rd party for players.

DSP?

I am assuming that is the publisher?
how well does it work?

Sgt Spectre wrote:

Well the naysayers can just not include it, I know plenty of people who are GM's and only allow the corerulebook for character creation... its a choice on what you are allowed to use for a game.

So they can just pick and choose for their game, but I love the addition of Divinity and its tech.

Though if the Androffan society is just brain slaves, then they are no longer a society and Androffan Society would be extinct and not different as he said, though we are splitting hairs. It just seems like having far off Androffan Society still existing gives them more tools to use for future games, and why destroy your own tools?

A galaxy away seems rather small in a realm or existence of magic and its instant teleportation and 9,000 years ago the space fold/ warp technology of the Divinity was new, now it may be fairly common, so why hasnt Golarion been visited again, well it feels like the trip to Golarion was a mistake in the first place due to damage sustained with a Dominion of the Black Feet that took on the Divinity. If Androffa is at war with the Dominion of the Black, the fact that they are not branching out means they probably havent been defeated and pushed to refugee status and are perhaps adapting and overcoming as I dont or rather can imagine them destroying this whole civilization (effectively just writing it off and all the story plots and twists it entails for later use) I feel that their are still there, and not a race of mindless brain slaves or destroyed, but definitely changed by the dark and sinister nature of war they have probably endured.

I feel that these new modules are only the tip of the iceberg and not whole sum of it.

You know what, I hope you're right. I would actually be very interested if Androffa and Golarion interacted in more ways beyond a gigantic science vessel crashing. But the problem is that each Adventure Path is contained canon, and Paizo doesn't have an actual metaplot for the setting, so if Paizo ever canonizes Androffa-Golarion...

LOL True!

but they will leave options open, just like how the ability to travel to a WW1 era earth is there, Earth wasnt destroyed, its just needing a portal to get there. Androffa isnt destroyed, it just needs space fold technology to get there, and whose to say space fold tech cant be weaponized, imagine using teleport technology to teleport an enemy into a sun or black hole... alien fleet invasion.. no problem, teleport them into a red giant... poof.

I really want to see more of a history and current events type plot for Androffa as they are humans, to see how their world evolved and such, why or why didnt they use magic, is it because of like warhammer 40k that magic and sorcery are actually evil and created/ empowered a dark god Tzeentch or the Old Gods? So they use technology to combat it?

I havent been this excited for a module since We got to go into WW1 Russia.

Sgt Spectre wrote:

Neongelion wrote:

Something tells me that Androffa in the present day in the setting is either a dead or colonized world from the Dominion...

hmm well I dont think the dominion really makes colonies, I think they are almost like a galactic plague of madness not really setting up a homestead with the intent to put down roots.

Perhaps dead, but I think that just feels like a waste of a resource for a whole new story path/ plot to use. Also Mr. Jacobs did say that Androffan society is different now since 9,000 years had passed since the departure of the Divinity.

So I am eager to see and know more about this highly advanced space faring civilization.

We're unlikely to get any material on current-day Androffa since it's another galaxy away and unlikely to ever interact with Golarion.

Yeah, and when James said it's "different" I'm sure it's different in that everyone is a brain slave to the Dominion, and the whole world is basically a planet-sized farm for new minds. The only time I see this happening is if Unity becomes a god, becomes aware that Androffa is still kicking, and lures a massive military expedition to Golarion, only to completely take it over and use it to try conquering the entire solar system.

I can smell the tears of "sci-fi in my fantasy" naysayers already :P

Well the naysayers can just not include it, I know plenty of people who are GM's and only allow the corerulebook for character creation... its a choice on what you are allowed to use for a game.

So they can just pick and choose for their game, but I love the addition of Divinity and its tech.

Though if the Androffan society is just brain slaves, then they are no longer a society and Androffan Society would be extinct and not different as he said, though we are splitting hairs. It just seems like having far off Androffan Society still existing gives them more tools to use for future games, and why destroy your own tools?

A galaxy away seems rather small in a realm or existence of magic and its instant teleportation and 9,000 years ago the space fold/ warp technology of the Divinity was new, now it may be fairly common, so why hasnt Golarion been visited again, well it feels like the trip to Golarion was a mistake in the first place due to damage sustained with a Dominion of the Black Feet that took on the Divinity. If Androffa is at war with the Dominion of the Black, the fact that they are not branching out means they probably havent been defeated and pushed to refugee status and are perhaps adapting and overcoming as I dont or rather can imagine them destroying this whole civilization (effectively just writing it off and all the story plots and twists it entails for later use) I feel that their are still there, and not a race of mindless brain slaves or destroyed, but definitely changed by the dark and sinister nature of war they have probably endured.

I feel that these new modules are only the tip of the iceberg and not whole sum of it.

The High Tech aspect of Iron Gods/ Numeria/ Androffa just causes my head to spin with possibilities...

Here I am thinking of a Bio armor... like Guyver
basically a summoned bio armor akin to power armor... maybe not as powerful as the artifact listed, but something like this.

anyone else thinking of this? Or other ways to run this other than a Summoner?

A template? I found something from dragonstar a while ago.

Perhaps Iron Gods will have biological enhancements like Shadowruns Bioware as opposed to just Cyberware.

Sgt Spectre wrote:

hmmm now what about Cinder?

what would her abilities and powers be as she could go toe to toe with Gwenda who is a full fledged huntress and instructor.

** spoiler omitted **

So she's still a big mystery as to her full capabilities but, given she was able to stand against Glynda even without her Semblance, we can presume she is, indeed, capable. Moreover, in v2:e5,
** spoiler omitted **

The ability to either absorb or negate another semblance would indeed make someone a lethal character..

Still Cinder seems like a very potent character, highly trained and powerful.

I would like to see more things explained about her.

*edit*

I wonder if a template for her would include Swashbuckler levels?

Something tells me that Androffa in the present day in the setting is either a dead or colonized world from the Dominion...

hmm well I dont think the dominion really makes colonies, I think they are almost like a galactic plague of madness not really setting up a homestead with the intent to put down roots.

Perhaps dead, but I think that just feels like a waste of a resource for a whole new story path/ plot to use. Also Mr. Jacobs did say that Androffan society is different now since 9,000 years had passed since the departure of the Divinity.

So I am eager to see and know more about this highly advanced space faring civilization.

Now I am hoping that the Androffans are making a galactic empire... with Emperor/ King and other vassels... just seems like a techno empire would be kinda cool...

That depends...have you accepted the Emperor into your heart?

Our thoughts light the Darkness that others may cross space.
We are one with the Emperor, our souls are joined in his will.
Praise the Emperor whose sacrifice is life as ours is death.
Hail his name, the Master of Humanity.

Praise the Emperor and Pass the ammunition.

How a Large Senate would have had a hard time trying to combat an immediate threat having to vote on everything all the time while the Dominion of the Black invades and counquers while they debate, and how a person steps forward and leads becoming an emperor. (Star wars?)

They change tactics and concepts to fight an enemy that is magical in nature, possibly developing technology that creates "anti magic" Fields, bubbles, rays, blasts, grenades or force shields.

I just see spells which disable tech, so I was wondering when I will see tech that disables spells. As magic is essentially just another science, mages study it, learn and improve upon it with different theories, magic has laws, so it stands to reason that technology would also find a way to defeat it.

Could have Grey Knights hunting mages and demons....

Death to the Xenos, the Witch, and the heretic....

so the Androffans start off as a somewhat benevolant and explore the galaxy to unite the worlds, see who can join the forming galactic republic like in star wars... but then after their battle with the dominion of the black... and horrible battles and casualties, they become more like the imperium of man in warhammer 40k and less like the galactic republic in star wars.

Just thought of it, and would it be probable that other exploration vessels were sent out?

hmmm now what about Cinder?

what would her abilities and powers be as she could go toe to toe with Gwenda who is a full fledged huntress and instructor.

The individual's username on Paizo is CorrinAvatan, and (so long as I don't botch it, here's the earlier thread from this very section on the message boards):

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rdly?Just-moved-to-Junction-CityManhattan-Kans as

Good luck!

Thanks!

just shot him a message

hopefully there will be some light in this dark dank hole of a region.

Finn Kveldulfr wrote:

Corrin Avatan wrote:

Hi,

Looking to play or run pathfinder.

I just moved, but unfortunately I don't have the ability to host the game: new apartment doesn't have the space for a decent table.

If I would run, I'd basically just bring all of my gear to wherever.

Looking for gamers nearby.

Well, darn-- I just left that area in May, 2014-- of course, I don't miss Kansas AT ALL, but some more gamers in the area while I was stuck there would have been nice. And unfortunately, I think all the folks I was gaming with are either deployed right now, or PCSed to Korea...

Still, I wish ya luck-- and more to the point, though it's kind of late, I'll see if I have any contacts left out there who aren't deployed, and if I do, I'll post something more in the next couple of days.

That'd be pretty cool... and yes, I can understand not missing it :-(

howdy how are things, I just PCS'ed to Fort Riley Kansas and was looking for other gamers.

There's someone in Manhattan, KS, who posted a little while ago (unless that was you under a different alias).

I used to be stuck out there until May of this year, but I've finally escaped. Unfortunately, the people I knew at Fort Riley who are gamers are all deployed right now (with 1 exception, and that 1 PCS'd to Korea in December). Wish I could give ya better contacts, but it is kind of a wasteland out there.

lol and nope that wasn't me out in manhattan KS, can I get a link to that please?

Yeah... Riley is kinda a hole.... Junction city is... ehhh and Aggyville hrmm dunno.

but anymore info is most welcome

Dunno where Ft Riley is, But here in Liberal, in SW KS, it is a veritable desert. PBP is my only outlet here. There are some games but they are few and far between, and no real community to speak of.....

dang... that sucks... hrmmm

hmm are there really no other pathfinder gamers near Fort Riley Kansas?

howdy, just pcs'ed to fort riley,

looking for other pathfinder players in the area!

thanks

Sgt Spectre wrote:

Would perhaps just adding a gun to a melee weapon work?

Should we develop some requirment/ maximum/ minimum of what type of weapon? Like no cannons attached to a punch dagger?

No cannons attached to punch daggers but volley guns attached to cesti are just dandy?

RWBY and limits just don't go well together.

Well essentially what I was saying was that proportionate sized guns to the melee weapon. Like 155mm howitzers attached to punch daggers.

With Yang's Shotgun Gauntlets, the mechanism is pretty cool especially with how Monty explained it. Since it uses a belt to load the drum magazine around the forearm, interesting idea. I think I saw something like that in a manga by masamune shirow. Still great idea in my opinion.

Would perhaps just adding a gun to a melee weapon work?

Should we develop some requirment/ maximum/ minimum of what type of weapon? Like no cannons attached to a punch dagger?

Would anyone be cool with me putting up stats for Ruby using one of my playtest classes? I think it'd be a bit easier to model her with those, mostly basing off of the Red trailer.

go for it, by most table top RPG standards, anyone able to do what she does should be highlevel I would think? The sheer maneuverability and combat options/ tactics she employs... plus the speed... epic.

Cool Sgt Spectre, let me know how it goes and what changes you make to rules.

well for weapons, the rules we change are that all weapons can be charged with an elemental effect by "dust". Dust will grant elemental damage of 1d6 in the form of: Fire, Cold, and Electricity as direct damage.

With Semblances for the characters essentially being handled on a case by case basis within regards to construction.

Right now we are going with you can use your semblance Class Level + Chosen stat bonus. 5th level Fighter with Charisma of 18 = 9 uses of semblance a day.

we are leaning to using intelligence, wisdom and charisma for determining bonus semblance uses as this will make "dump stats" like charisma more viable and choices for stats will mean alot more.

Sgt Spectre wrote:

brad2411 wrote:

** spoiler omitted **...

Are there any plans to do more with the semblances?

i.e. like Blakes ability to make shadow clones of herself and use them for limited attacking an maneuverability?

For Pennys stats I did not use point buy. For Blakes Semblance would not be to hard as there is a ninja trick the shadow clones and a swift haste but she would need to be higher level. In fact most of the characters would do well with higher levels as anime is naturally more powerful and outrageous. I went 5th level cause they are starting out in season 1. Beyond that I will have to go more in-depth with some of the characters. Like I would need to add a swift haste to Ruby. Make Weiss have Swift action floating disks and possibly feather fall. Pyrrha would get magnetism. Other then that I can't really think of other semblances they have.

well we are organizing a RWBY based pathfinder game, via the Rooster Teeth site.... gonna be epic...

** spoiler omitted **...

Are there any plans to do more with the semblances?

i.e. like Blakes ability to make shadow clones of herself and use them for limited attacking an maneuverability?

ohhh penny!

how did you determine the stats?
30-32 point buy?

Very Creative of you, I was actually talking to people about doing a RWBY based game for pathfinder on the RWBY site.

Still in development, but the Kitsune of the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG0 by Rite Publshing is a lot more like Tamamo no Mae than to the standard kitsune as developed by Paizo Publishing. In Japanese mythology, a kitsune gains an extra tail for each century it exists granting more spell-like powers with each added tail - unlike the normal PF kitsune which is simply choosing a multi-tail feat. In all ways Kaidan cleaves closely to Japanese folklore, and not the inventiveness of a given game designer.

It looks like the release of the GMs and Players Guides to Kaidan (which would include these mechanics described above) won't be until sometime this fall.

From Update #28 on the Kaidan Kickstarter is a post on kitsune is all we have publicly available at this time.

awesome!

will definitely mark that

Just trying to either choose a race (regular kitsune doesnt really fit the bill) or create one and choose classes for her to essentially build a monster or enemy.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Sgt Spectre wrote:

Kolokotroni wrote:

If you want to try to work things out, step one is changing the paladin player's class. If he wants to be the dark inquisitor, thats totally fine, its just not a paladin. If he wants something more martial then the inquisitor, tell him to use the war-priest from the Advanced Class Guide playtest document. Its very similar to a paladin, but not themed after it. Not to mention Iomadae is the wrong deity here.

It might be worth trying to sort it out with the 'problem' players. But I agree with the rest in suggesting that since you have 4 good players, booting 2 people cosntantly arguing with you at the table in such a fashion is probably your best avenue.

Well the issue with that is that he wants the Paladin class abilities, the tanking, the healing and the fighting with all the other bonuses. But its almost like he wants a fighters freedom to pursue his views on what his god wants.... which I have tried to explain that you either are a paladin or you are not. You have to follow it all exactly how the tenants of your faith want you to, or you are not a paladin. Essentially he wants a sort of paladin who has more freedom in his choices and who to help which is problematic. I just cant think of anything that really accomodates his desires for a class. He truly loves being the healing tank type character, but when I told him the responsibilites of a paladin, his rebuttle "but them I am going to have to fight every battle against these evil people and demons"

I understand that. Which is why I am suggesting the warpriest.

Its functionally very similar to the paladin, full bab with a chosen weapon, self buffs, good defense, the ability to self heal, and it can be for any diety and any alignment. It doesnt get everything the paladin does, but it gets other things the paladin doesnt (6 levels of spells and the ability to swift action cast self only divine spells with fervor).

So make him a warpriest of a neutral deity or even an...

I will definitely try to present the option thanks.

Gargs454

that is an excellent post, fostering discussion and reason.
Dont approach something so hostile and you tend to get better answers.

Definitely try to talk to your GM, I am trying to get 2 of my 6 players to talk to me why they feel like their plan of digging 5.5 billion tons of dirt (sadly that number is not a embellishment..) and replacing it with gun powder (magical gunpowder that they want to be as potent as C4 or Symtex) in a single night while undetected to blow up an enemy base/ compound.

Still working on my issue, but I wish you the best of luck with yours Apocalypso.

If you want to try to work things out, step one is changing the paladin player's class. If he wants to be the dark inquisitor, thats totally fine, its just not a paladin. If he wants something more martial then the inquisitor, tell him to use the war-priest from the Advanced Class Guide playtest document. Its very similar to a paladin, but not themed after it. Not to mention Iomadae is the wrong deity here.

It might be worth trying to sort it out with the 'problem' players. But I agree with the rest in suggesting that since you have 4 good players, booting 2 people cosntantly arguing with you at the table in such a fashion is probably your best avenue.

Well the issue with that is that he wants the Paladin class abilities, the tanking, the healing and the fighting with all the other bonuses. But its almost like he wants a fighters freedom to pursue his views on what his god wants.... which I have tried to explain that you either are a paladin or you are not. You have to follow it all exactly how the tenants of your faith want you to, or you are not a paladin. Essentially he wants a sort of paladin who has more freedom in his choices and who to help which is problematic. I just cant think of anything that really accomodates his desires for a class. He truly loves being the healing tank type character, but when I told him the responsibilites of a paladin, his rebuttle "but them I am going to have to fight every battle against these evil people and demons"