SCSi's page

Please cancel all my subscriptions. I'll be back, just not at this time. :(

Erik,

I appreciate your response. Nobody is perfect, and your response seems like its going to help the issue.

However.....

Your response is about a month too late. Your CS people have been raked over the coals and thrown in front of the bus loaded with angry customers. They were given little to no information to pass onto us and were left unsupported by the management that did this deal.

Radio silence from you for what, months? Thats really all we wanted. Isn't too hard really to pop in and say "Im working on it" or "Another meeting with ND, no real progress", especially when the CS team is prodding for some scrap of info to throw at us.

A simple "Im meeting with the ND staff at GAMA to get to the bottom of this" would probably have made us really damn happy to hear that the management cares.

As much as the CS staff did a damn good job, the writing on the wall (to me) is that Paizo Heads dont care about its customers, or its CS staff. If they did, CS would have the tools available to keep us informed, and you would have made an appearance as soon as ND went belly-up. We had a frustrated CS rep post from the heart, and now comes your mea culpa.

Thats all I have to say.

You’re showing you care, just not about us.

"We're not sorry we lead you astray, we're sorry that the KS turned out the way it did"

<Insert PF2 Advertisement>

Now, what about something that will cost Paizo nothing monetarily, but will matter. An apology. There is value to people to hear that someone will admit that what they did was wrong, and that they feel bad for the damage that their actions helped cause. Not having your customer service folks, but the CCO/Publisher and COO for that matter, both need to make a good, detailed and heartfelt apology for their role in this failed kickstarter. Folks on here have been practically begging for one, and they just get put off. At some point, when your told some other project is keeping folks busy, you can not help but feel hurt and that they really don't care. The repeated statements that the Executives 'care' rings hollow when there is no action. Not even an apology when its really clear that things have gone wrong here.

An apology would be admitting guilt and mistakes. Obviously the silence from the higher-ups mean that egos here are more important than the feelings of who pays your bills.

The apology would not be "Im sorry that we messed up" but rather "We're sorry that this didnt turn out how we wanted it". Big difference.

Of course we'll never hear what happened at GAMA regarding this issue, or if they even talked. The situation of this whole thread is obviously low priority to Paizo compared to PFv2 and GAMA by the thread content.

My players and I are seriously contemplating breaking up with Paizo over this. I know if this happened 10 years ago Lisa would be all over this thread. Unfortunate how things progress.

We may not be getting 'radio silence', but endless static is starting to get old, especially now that the newest hurdle is 'too busy with 2E'

This is the sticking point that really got under my skin. I probably have written/deleted a bunch of posts to this extent, but decided against posting due to me coming off like a huge A-hole.

Everything else seems to be 'more important (Cons, PF2, etc)' than this. CS will say that this is def not the case, but from reading the prior posts, its being come across as totally the case. Paizo is 'too busy' to handle this correctly. If this isn't the case then they need to prove all of us wrong.

NDA's dont have to be airtight, and with ND posting their %age in licensing fees, the NDA might have already been broken on their end.

The lack of concrete info/CS admitting that its NDA's that are the blocking factor/etc makes me think that some deals were made under the table/favors made and the reputation of the higher-ups are more important than the reputation of the Paizotanic they are plowing slowly into the iceberg.

To the CS team: I feel bad that you need to be the human shields of execs that are throwing you under the bus by proxy. All of us aren't angry at you, and I hope you all dont feel targeted.

While I agree, the simple fact is there will most likely never be as much information as backers want as ultimately it must come from Ninja Division and they are not likely to ever admit they flat out intended to rip Paizo, Archon and the backers off and anything less then such an admission would not be accepted by many people.

I think a statement from Erik/Higher Ups(tm) on what evidence he had that ND would be able to deliver after many red flags were brought up would appease most of the masses. The fact that most of us feel cheated/lead astray by the Paizo heads vouching for them despite evidence proving otherwise is really (from what I see) is the chief complaint.

Currently the vacuum/lack of information makes me fill in the blanks such as:

1. Doing a friend a favor and it blew up in his face.
2. Personally got a cut of the profits for using ND.
3. ???
4. Profit!

Crazy, I know, but nothing has been said to the extent that the above did NOT happen, so this is just a breeding ground for speculation, conspiracy theories, guesses and heartburn for the CS group.

I get it that mistakes were made, not one of us here are perfect, however understanding the "Why" and evidence thereof would put us in the shoes of "Oh, well that sounded like a good idea at the time, I can see why they decided that!" or "Thanks guys for the warnings AFTER we already signed the contract".

We need some assurances that the next time Paizo head-ups promote something, we arent going to be stuck in the same situation.

Yup seems like a bunch of posts got the axe. I guess that's where we're heading to now.

Well yeah, we can have negative press tarnish the grand unveiling of 2E!

Why put out a dumpster fire when you have a shiny new model coming out in a few months.

I'm disappointed in Paizo.

Correct, I don't believe Paizo did anything illegal or fraudulent (though the boats still out on Ninja Division in that regard) but I do believe Paizo is liable to backers as in they need to make every reasonable effort, even if it costs them some money, to come to a satisfactory resolution for the backers but not in the sense anyone could, or should take them to court.

I totally agree. Paizo (so far) is fighting an uphill battle in the court of public opinion regarding their reputation. This fiasco will haunt them for a while next time they try to vouch for a 3rd party product. With v2.0 of PF coming out, their reputation ship hit the ND iceberg and so far they are just watching it slowly sink.

Do I agree with the whole "I'm burning/selling my Paizo products and never playing Starfinder again!" thing? No. Why deny yourself something you obviously enjoyed? That seems counter productive.

Obviously since Erik double-downed against all the warnings, now is completely silent on the issue, they dont care (to me) about their reputation with their players.

If you cant vote with your words to make change at a company, then you vote with your dollars, as hard as it might be. Unfortunately thats how businesses work now days.

So in other words, what you are actually saying to Paizo is 'Quit working on getting me my minis and get busy apologizing.'

More like have Erik take 30 mins out of his obvious very busy day to address the issue at hand and (within the scope of an NDA) what they plan to do about it. That would earn a lot more respect (at least to me) than having Sara continuously take bullets for him.

Then work on getting me my minis. :)

I think it is indeed premature to demand that Paizo jeapardize their efforts to get you (at least some of) your minis by a refusal to wait to see what they can do.

Oh, the minis are a write-off. I know I'm never getting those. Blood from a rock, etc etc etc. However the silence from the people who vouched for ND speaks more than anything. From the way they are handling this makes me (and probably others) question why I am supporting a company like this with my subscriptions.

Its a lot easier to earn lost money than to earn lost trust, and with the tabletop rpg market booming and being more mainstream, Paizo isn't the biggest kid on the block anymore. Just food for thought.

The point is not whether an apology is needed, it is that those demanding an apology and explanation are being premature.

So when is going to be the right time? The writing was on the wall on page-1 on this thread. They chose to ignore it.

So the question is, are the Paizo head-ups going to chime in on this before or after we all vote with our dollars.

The angry mob is forming, and soon the window of opportunity for Paizo's 'mea culpa' will be over.

I think people are overstating just how bad the track record of Ninja Division was at the time this Kickstarter was produced. It was bad, but it wasn't 'only a total fool would ever work with this company' bad. I mean, if somebody thought ND were that bad at the time then they really shouldn't have backed even with Paizo working on it.

Having assurances from the Paizo high-ups that they have full faith in ND delivering has more weight than you probably assume. Thats also where most of the complaints here stem from.

Its one thing to post warnings about ND and having them buried in a forum post to be missed, its something else to have the higher-ups of Paizo double down on said warnings.

Then, when things explode in their face, have their CS manager Sara do damage control while we get radio silence from the same higher-ups who assured us it would be alright.

To throw Sara under the bus to deal with all of us isn't right, Erik doubled down, so he should be here telling all of us whats going on.

TriOmegaZero wrote:

The only viable option, as evaluated by Paizo at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 and all.

How do you know that? Paizo hasn't been at all forthcoming in the decision making process? Maybe if they did, we could avoid a lot of this discussion.

Maybe they are betting on the short attention span of gamers and hope it'll just be forgotten in a few months.

I mean im sure thats what Palladium is doing with their Robotech Fiasco

None of those facts speak to the motivations of the Paizo staff. They are allowed to be human and make mistakes.

To be human is also to do the right thing(tm), that includes copping to your mistakes and doing what is in your power to make what was wronged, right.

From the typed evidence in this thread, thats not being done. Not one word from the higher ups have been posted here. Even under an NDA they can give a generic statement addressing the issue without going into specifics.

That's a lot of baseless accusations you're throwing around about Paizo staff. I'd give it a rest and wait to see if they prove otherwise.

I fail to see what they have left to prove. The facts speak for themselves:

1. They didn't heed the warnings about ND from the people who pay their bills.

2. They didn't do any evident due diligence about prior failed KS's by this company, see point #1.

3. None of the people who vouched for ND (instilling some trust that the Paizo name would make ND suddenly get their crap together) have come forward with even a recognition/statement/apology/status update.

Sara is basically their meat shield/damage control to appease a bunch of pissed off customers (some, if not most spend a lot of money/month with Paizo) who spent a lot of money with the implicit trust into something that bore the Paizo name.

The fact that the CEO/COO/whoever who vouched for ND has not come into this thread and either addressed the issue, or gave a statement of "I wish I could say more but reasons" makes me question why I am giving this company money every month if their leadership cant cop to making a mistake.

Sara is doing her job in keeping us informed, the CEO/COO/etc need to step up and do their job in taking some once of responsibility. If they are unable to do this, then maybe its time to move on to a company that show that they care.

/rant

HLO does what it's intended to do, within the limitations of cloud storage. It works the way it's intended to. So, yes, I'd say it's unfair to compare them to Bethesda (which delivered a buggy product) or Ninja Division (which, from what I've seen in the other threads about it, failed to deliver at all for most of their backers).

If connection errors, login errors, and continuous red-box errors about not being able to contact the server (on 3 diff accounts/laptops with different WAP depending on who's house we're at) is 'intended to do' then thats a big wtf from me. :)

Anyone else think it's a but unfair to bash on LWD for offering a streaming service and announcing they will at some point begin requiring Users to pay for time-cards for this cloud storage?

Its not unfair in the least. LWD made the decision to go to an online-only generator that is reliant on cloud storage and a server cluster that they have to babysit just so people could use their product. We (the players) didnt want it, they wanted to cash in on the recurring revenue.

Their previous Hero Labs (the standalone client) worked fine and I happily gave a lot of money to them for it for Pathfinder. Now I refuse to spend a dime on their "service" especially after seeing it in action. The old HL didnt have their problems.

Saying that its unfair to bash on LWD for delivering a shotty product is like saying its unfair to bash Bethesda for Fallout 76 being bug ridden (only imagine paying monthly/yearly for FO76 vs a one time payment).

Im in the same boat as you. I've been a loyal Paizo subscriber for years and years. However them completely disregarding their customer base warnings about ND makes me wonder if they are still the good company that I have been supporting.

Really want to see what the powers that be have to say after they ignored the warnings that the people who fund their paychecks gave them.

Little bit of thread necromancy but has anyone got anything else to say about Hero Lab Online now that it's been out for a while? Are people still using it? Is it worth the money?

No.

Be it the last time my players used it ~6 months ago, it was plagued with connectivity errors, login/passwords wouldnt work, and nothing that would make me want to pay a monthly fee to use.

The group is made of current/ex IT people, so it wasn't 'user error'.

Yes please, that would be great. Thanks for your help.

I checked on this after I updated my credit-card a few weeks ago (since I never received it) and its flagged as "Pending Suspended".

How can I fixify this?

With a heavy heart I must cancel all my subs. :( Work, lack of time to play, and 2 kids. Yeah.. I know.

I'll be back Paizo, I SHALL RETURN! DONT YOU WORRY!

Hi!

Can you cancel my card game subscription please.

Thanks!

Can you please cancel my maps subscription.

Thanks!

SCSi wrote:

Man, I got my email just now about it shipping. Boy, I should have posted here a week ago! :)

So you are telling me that posting on here will help get your shipping email faster? This is amazing.

Highly doubtful it had any effect on the shipping.

Man, I got my email just now about it shipping. Boy, I should have posted here a week ago! :)

My last name starts with a P, so I'm stuck no matter what direction they go! :)

I doubt they go by last name, but what subscriptions you get to maximize workflow efficiency and thereby reduce mistakes.

Hi there,

So... my August order is still pending... still don't have access to the PDFs... and still have no clear date as to when I should expect this to resolve...

"Soon" has been the call word for quite some time now... but it seems that only those being squeaky wheels are getting greased and those of us sitting quietly by are being somewhat overlooked...

I'm in the same boat. I work in retail, I understand you-know-what happens, I'm being patient and not flooding Paizo with angry calls/tickets of where my stuff is. I know the CS peeps are doing their best to put out the huge nuclear fire that is herein known as Paizogate. I know this is a printing issue that is out of the scope of Paizo's control.

However its been a week since the last shipping day, and so far (short of one email) there has been no status change on my order.

It is what it is, but it looks like I dont have much of a choice but to wait it out.

I just got an email explaining the situation. However, it also says

THE EMAIL wrote:

You should already have received a new confirmation email for your order showing the Character Add-On deck and August promo cards moved to your sidecart.

I didn't get any such email, though.

I'd give it some time, it probably mass sends the email to the effected people then makes the changes in one huge, insane, soul-sucking, CR18 query.

OMG THE BOXED SET + ALL MY STUFF JUST MAGICALLY APPEARED RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME*! YOU ARE MAGICAL!

*Not really

Edit: The "Not Really" was for the stuff magically appearing in front of me. I was serious about the part about you being magical.

I'm just curious at this point if I'll have my PDFs released before the 3 day (US) weekend.

To be honest, I'm not holding my breath. Im past being angry at this, now I'm just 'whatever'.

Everyone in my gaming group has their ACG, mine is in limbo over the card-game fiasco, along with a bunch of other stuff.

You would think that the subscribers, the predictable/reliable income that a company needs to maintain/build its business, wouldn't get shoved behind all the GenCon sales, but we have. Most of us are too invested both financially and campaign-wise to switch from Pathfinder at this point (I know I am).

So the waiting game continues.

To be fair, Wizards did give us the OGL, which is how we have Pathfinder.. :)

Oh, it's not the dress-ups and the tailgate parties. That's all within the realm of understanding. It's the loyalty to the point of self-sacrifice and stress that I don't get. It's getting offended at jokes or not taking advantage of a sale because it's dressed in the colors of an opposing team. Basically making your life more difficult because of lines of brand loyalty. That's what I don't get.

Go look at the Crane Wing nerfing thread and you'll see that although we're all different colors, we're all the same damn bird.

Cthulhudrew wrote:

Is it okay if I take your discounts and add them to mine? Thanks!

Take it! What is a measly 12% when compared to me 49er pride?

Hmm...that could add up to quite a lot actually.

Oh cruel world.

Tell me about it. I feel dirty using this code since Im a 49er fan, however its also 12%. Too bad Paizo wasn't in NorCal, we could possibly (one day) get a code for 49% off!

Kevin Mack wrote:

Well never played a single PFS game (Registerd just never played) and I can say my experiance in home games was that the feat was far to good for what it did so clearly it was not just a problem with PFS.

Was it through Master of Many Styles or through the feat Prerequisites?

I would say MoMS. I only say this because I have a player who at level 3 could ignore the first attack from everyone attacked him. If they took it via Feat Preq its reasonable, but at lower levels its horribly broken if taken with MoMS.

I'm going to repeat my post from the poll thread, because I want to make sure it gets seen.

This change wasn't needed, it was balanced and acceptable. The only problem with Crane Wing was Master of Many Styles made it possible to get at 2nd level, or first level as a human. The feat was designed to be used at mid to high levels, where is was strong, but there are many counters to it. By taking it at first or second level it becomes imbalanced at that level of play.

Master of Many Styles is the culprit of many low level power imbalances. Since PFS operates at lower levels, this impacts all play levels. Instead of nerfing the feat, change master of many styles to require bonus style feats to meet the monk level requirement.

This right here. 1000 times. Having a PC that can deflect a blow from Aroden himself at 2nd level isn't 'fair and balanced', and the MoMS monk is just now getting his rear handed to him at level 7-8 when the baddies get multiple attacks and the Crane Wing usefulness drops off.

Its a good feat if you keep the prereqs, its a bad feat if its abused by MoMS and given for no cost.

"Crane wing wasn't overpowered, any good GM would just change the tactics or monsters to avoid single attacks."

Personally I dont like my players to metagame, so why should I run my monsters avoiding melee with the MoMS monk because somehow he "knows" he can deflect the first hit.

I may be completely out of line here, but why doesn't everyone take a step back and look at the big picture.

We have the Paizo Lead Designer here reading our input. How many other gaming companies (of paizo's size) actually do that? Think about that for a second before you make threats and spew your vitriol. I'm sure this change took many months, with many meetings with many a payroll dollar was spent trying to make /everyone/ happy with this change.

Some people here are so focused on the one burning tree, that they dont take into account the entire forest.

The counter to this was the Master of Many Styles who avoided those.

Bingo, and I think thats where the main complaint lies because you don't need all the prereqs that balanced out the feat. Dont nerf the feat, nerf MoMS.

OHDAMN!

I just call them out on the table with their cheating. Like stop the game, and call them out.

Friends dont ruin your game by dice-roll cheating (they ruin your game by continuously arguing about rules, which is another issue), because if they do, they aren't your friends. Friends don't go #2 where their dice land. If they aren't my friend, I have no problems dropping them from the game until they get their you-know-what together.

Maybe they needed more hugs as a child, or have other issues, but I'm here to GM, not to be their shrink. I have enough issues to deal with running the game without babysitting a child (because really, who else would cheat at a frigging tabletop RPG game) and ruin it for adults who ARE my friends and don't do that.

Maybe its because im getting old, or have been doing this RPG stuff for 20 years, but this is one of my huge pet peeves.

Now I just blankly stare at the paizo site every min, longing for something to click on.

6000+ posts... Epic...

Only about 100 are actually worth reading.. :)

OMFG IS TOO

Here it's right at the stroke of midnight. Very dramatic.

DUN DUN DUNNN!! Last comment before cutoff?

Except for magical gold teeth bling... :)

Even though some of you wont make the cut, you all have my respect for actually submitting something. Im way too uncreative to think of think of these things.

Depends on what side of the planet you're on

Ive been seeing more new items too as the contest comes down to the wire.. Wonder why? Some have been really good too.