Richter Bones's page

I was wondering if there are any character rules that have a variation on the multi-attack. I had this idea for a character that the initial attacks are not designed to hit but to distract and create an opening. For example, if you reverse the penalties starting with the -10, then -5, and end with a flourishing finish. Depending on the success of the first attacks can define how the finishing attack works.

This is without balancing but I was thinking that a critical failure on either of the first 2 attacks keeps you from using your finishing attack. Failures or better on the first 2 attacks allows you to use the finishing move. Success on both the initial attacks gives you an automatic critical success on the finishing move.

Styles can be added as well that would give variation to how each attack can add to the finishing attack based on their level of success.

Any thoughts or is there something out there already like this?

Formations shouldn't clump together anyways if there is a potential for AoE damage. That's just bad tactics.

With the whole Amiri artwork, I think some people are trying to take it too seriously. It's a game, she's supposed to look cool and intimidating. I love Wayne Reynold's artwork and I hope GW sticks to their guns on this one.

I can already see now some CG thieves stealing the paperwork that shows ownership of a slave and then anonymously turning the slave master over to the authorities, setting the slave free.

I really liked the look of the settlements. I would really like to hear more about them in a future blog. Are settlements going to be designed so that they become specialized? For instance, you have a choice or path that you go down that prevents you from making other types of buildings (not in relation to alignment)?

The building of settlements and kingdoms was definitely the biggest selling point to me during the kickstarter.

Great blog!

Realistically, any system other than full disclosure is simply not feasible. You'll be able to sort items in the market by quality.

Another reason I wouldn't have gone with auction houses. Allowing businesses to sell by reputation would be more interesting. Those with the skill to Appraise items being better able to get the better deals, c'est la vie.

This alone (though there are many other reasons as well) makes PfO superior to EVE IMHO. Don't have time to log into EVE and you could end up with an empty training queue. This, as Ryan points out won't happen in PfO. You gain XP over time, regardless of logging in or not. When you log in next time, go train, or at least go get the other prerequisite you might need to train up any skills you want. The XP cost is the same, and you will have accumulated the XP. Much, much better than the way EVE handles it. I have played EVE off and on for a while now (years), and most of the time I was just logging in to set my training queue (in part because, while sandbox in design, you need really good skill levels to actually be good at most things. This sort of puts EVE in with other MMO's that target "higher level" players. PfO won't be targeting any one demographic; rather it will target all, from the newest player to the people who have been playing since Alpha).

No queue + XP awarded over time = WIN!

I just started playing EVE about a month ago and there really isn't much you can do while you try and build up your skills. It is really repetitive with the missions, and I don't have the assets or skills to join my corporation for the skirmishes. All I do is log in to update my training queue and maybe do a few missions for some credits and that's it. Not sure if I'll even renew.

I hope PFO ensures that new players don't become bored while they wait for their EXP to build up so they can get that skill set that makes them viable.

I've been pouring through as much PF material as I can, but at the end of the day I will be more of a casual player by the simple fact that I lack the hours in the day to sit down and play (Being a family man with two kids and all that). Is there such as thing as Hardcore Casual? :)

Yes there is! I think that a majority of the pledgers fit into the Hardcore Casual.

When players start hitting max level in 2.5 years you want to be seeing them start to create or wield the most powerful items in the game. Not players just starting on leveling up their enchanting.

If enchanting has a narrow window of increasing in power then I can see waiting until late game for magical items to show up.

Here's my view on enchanting. Every GM plays their campaigns differently. When I run a campaign players will start to see their first enchanted weapons around 3rd level. A +1 short sword or +1 chain mail. By the time they hit 5th or 6th level they might see a +1 dagger of returning (essentially a +2 item). I try to keep it at a pace of 2.5 to 3 levels before they start to see more powerful items.

Nice job. Or...wonderful job. :)

I like that an item has to be of very high quality to enchant. Though enchanters may be tempted to complain that it limits how many items they can make, it also controls the glut of magic items on the market. To balance that, I hope the magic items generated by loot remains low, or else the enchantment skill will become useless. I do prefer to have nearly everything in the game craftable, including the best magic (unless you're talking true relics and artifacts).

The problem with that is that it will take a long time before items start being made that can be enchantable, making enchanters useless until the game has progressed.

Enchants could improve over time just like harvesting, refining, and crafting. Enchants from enchanters might have a quality level that goes from 1-300, with the max quality level an item can be enchanted with equals the item's quality level. A QL50 weapon can only be enchanted up to a QL50 enchant.

Quality probably has more to do with the purity of the mineral. The better practiced and more educated you are about extracting material would determine it's purity level. I also agree that someone more skilled at harvesting materials would be able to extract more material.

Holy Herbs (Healer and alchemist shop)

While I think the idea of holding an in-game funeral is a little strange I do like the idea of in-game company specific events, such as weddings, celebrations, and even funerals.

Rather than color coding why not just include the numeric quality of the item under the name?

Longsword
Q234

Longsword
Q162

Don't make it automatic though, it should require an appraisal check that you train.

Banking would be interesting if you collected interest on your deposits like in Might and Magic. Of course, you then run the risk of the bank being destroyed and looted. But I would leave the banking to coins only and not item storage.

If you need to store items get a bigger home or rent storage space. If you don't make your monthly payment then you lose access and have to pay rent due to get it open. After several months past due the items get put up for auction. Unless, the storage gets raided.

I think it is a fun activity to speculate about what type of skills will be used in PFO. If you are familiar with EVE then you know that the skills there have prerequisites and that the skills are trained up to 5 levels. I realize that PFO might not be an exact replica of the EVE skill system but it is a good place to start. If you have official information on either the skill system or skills that differ from what I have posted please provide a link.

Since this is purely speculative, the rules are that you can post 1-5 skills that you think will be in the game and what their prerequisites are. Someone must have already posted one of the prerequisites otherwise it counts against your total skills. If you disagree with a skill(s) be polite and give your ideas.

Format:
skill name (training time, the higher the number the longer it takes to train)
-prerequisite skill Level of skill (training time)
--prerequisite skill to the prereq Level of skill (training time)

Example:
Healing Domain (x8)
-Divine Casting IV (x3)
--Orisons II (x1)

I see the orisons as allowing you to learn the most basic cleric spells, with divine casting as being able to learn more advanced cleric spells, and the healing domain as being able to learn the most powerful healing spells and master healing spells overall.

As a side note, while you may not be restricted from learning all the domains, your deity may restrict you on placing certain domain related spells and abilities on the action bar.

My new item to my wishlist is for private servers.

It might be easier to bundle the types of instruments together such as woodwind, percussion, brass, and string. For vocal have separate performance for informational, entertain, and persuade. For dance there is a wide range of different types, but you could categorize them as ballroom, couples, and folk.

“Lootable” banks and warehouses/storehouses. They would function like a normal MMO bank with a significant amount of storage depending on the structure. Say 1000 slots on the warehouses and storehouses but you could only store crafting mats or food etc in them. However, whenever another faction conquered your settlement, if the banks and storehouses were intact they could raid the coffers and help themselves to whatever goodies were stored there.

To counter the fact that you could suddenly find yourself without 2 copper to rub together (unless you threaded them), all Inns would have a personal stash/storage that only you the player had access to. It would not hold anywhere near as much money or items as a bank, but it would be a safe spot to store things. Maybe you could upgrade the number of space you had available by paying money to the inn, or by sticking a bag of holding in there.

Ideally this would encourage inter-kingdom warfare as well as prevent players from being completely hosed if the barbarians ransacked their kingdom.

I don't think I'd put my stuff in the bank if the mattress was safer.

It is then incumbent upon those of us who believe that face-to-face trade is more fun and still profitable to demonstrate by example. Once the game is up, I'll happily take that challenge. :)

If we were given that option I would be happy to join you, but from the sounds of it it doesn't look like we'll get that chance.

Kard Warstein wrote:

Eve does do this, but eve also allows for hundreds of members in a corporation. Here we're being limited to a small group with the single-CC of 20 or so.

You need to think of a Chartered Company like a Fleet in EVE, not a Corporation. It's just a Fleet that has some element of persistence.

Settlements are the EVE-Analog of Corporations and they'll have hundreds of members (maybe thousands). Kingdoms are the EVE-Analog of Alliances and they'll have thousands of members.

I wonder if there will be a skill you can train that will increase the cap on the size of your company? EVE has this and since it is being modeled after EVE then I'm thinking that might be the direction they're going.

If you're going to be flagged as heinous then you might as well flag yourself as an Outlaw, Enforcer, or Assassin so you can gain the benefits of having those on for long periods of time. Otherwise, you might have to consider not using slaves or controlling undead if you don't want to be flagged. I'm not saying it's fair but it is an option.

Merchant: "20gp for a sword around here is cheap in an area with little iron, I had to import it from that LE settlement three hexes away. Walking into an area like that raises the cost a bit, not to mention the travel time. However, I'm selling this Long Bow real cheap, only 5gp!"

Customer: "Thanks, I'll take it."

(bow and coin gets exchanged)

Merchant: "How about some arrows? 1gp each!"

Customer: "What!? That price is ludicrous!"

Merchant: "Those are real steel arrowheads on there!"

right. and saying 'the flag is the only negative reinforcement and there is no positive reinforcement' is ignoring that having undead minions follow you around to gnaw on the faces of whoever you tell them to is positive reinforcement if you are interested in power.

There has been no information pertaining that undead minion would be more powerful then a druid's animal companion. Essentially it would be a class feature just like getting two-weapon fighting.

If everyone gets a special power then everyone is special which means every one is the same and special powers are illogical and are no longer special. If it is not special it cannot be a positive reinforcement.

Flags like Outlaw, Assassin, and Enforcer have both a negative punishment and a positive reinforcement. It is up to the player to decide if the punishment is worth the reinforcement. Allowing players to create undead while these flags are on allows those players to also decide if they want undead as well without additional punishment.

Richter Bones wrote:

I think of this game as a really cool psychosocial experiment. My hypothesis is that if you give positive punishment (flagging) to someone who uses undead and offer no types of reinforcements, then all players will gravitate towards more rewarding types of game play.

Which brings me to: if no players use undead then player created undead cease to exist and it is illogical to have player created undead.

There may not be player created undead, depending on the Crowdforging, so Goblinworks may be way ahead of us :)

But my hypothesis is that people who are flagging already will use undead if they're available. If you're already an Assassin or an Outlaw, it doesn't matter at all that you roll up with some zombies in tow.

And if you're at war? Unless there are a bunch of unaligned spectators, everybody there is either your ally or getting ready to kill you anyway. Might as well bring a ghoul along, they'll have plenty to eat when you're done.

Furthermore, I'd be shocked if there weren't people specifically trying to stay flagged villain at all times. Because what better way is there to prove you're a badass than strolling into a good settlement with your villain flag flying proudly and seeing if they have any crusaders worthy of the name?

Cheers!
Landon

You bring up a good point and something I completely missed when reading through the blog. You can be flagged with either the Outlaw, Assassin, or even the Enforcer flags and still be heinous. I guess I thought those flags were dropped if you gained the heinous flag but that is only for the Traveler and you can't activate the Traveler flag or the Champion flag if you have the heinous flag. Attention to detail.

This puts a whole spin on it. I could literally be an Enforcer, flagged all the time, and just bring out the undead to help with my enforcement!

I'm still hoping for item degradation which would make second-hand items far less valuable.

Richter Bones wrote:

I think of this game as a really cool psychosocial experiment. My hypothesis is that if you give positive punishment (flagging) to someone who uses undead and offer no types of reinforcements, then all players will gravitate towards more rewarding types of game play.

Which brings me to: if no players use undead then player created undead cease to exist and it is illogical to have player created undead.

You're only actually punished if you get caught (i.e. someone catches you while you're flagged). Merely having the flag doesn't do anything by itself. So yes, I'm sure plenty of people will try it, because of course unlike all those OTHER idiots, THEY won't get caught... ;)

That is why it is a hypothesis. Once creating undead becomes available then we can collect data. Flagging in this case is positive punishment because you are giving something to someone that is viewed negatively.

What happens in AH now is people will keep inflating or undercutting people and the price is never truly representative of the item.

When you own a shop you are going to look at profit margins. It costs me this much to make it and I want to make this much on each item. If the item is a regular sell you might make it cheaper so you keep competitive, if you are the only guy selling you might raise the price a bit. You raise the price too high then you are going to just send your customers to the next town.

If you want an auction house, make it an auction house. "At 5pm today we are going to be auctioning off the Lancaster Estate", you go, you bid, and hopefully you can get some decent stuff you can resell.

I think of this game as a really cool psychosocial experiment. My hypothesis is that if you give positive punishment (flagging) to someone who uses undead and offer no types of reinforcements, then all players will gravitate towards more rewarding types of game play.

Which brings me to: if no players use undead then player created undead cease to exist and it is illogical to have player created undead.

...IMO raising undead should have a different flag than heinous. I'd suggest a "profane" flag, with advantages and disadvantages as well.

I like profane, would go good with someone who summons evil outsiders too. Maybe the bonus for being flagged for a long period of time could be the ability to summon/create more or a boost to the stats of either the undead or the outsider.

I say keep the heinous flag but give them a bonus if they are flagged for an extended period of time like the assassin, enforcer, outlaw, traveler, and champion.

Example, if I flag myself as a "healer", I open myself up to pvp but doing so for a long time allows me to heal better.

I'd like to have a Neutral-restricted "Nature's Champion" flag that lets druids and like minded tree-huggers to attack harvesters that are engaged in destruction harvesting like clear cutting forest for lumber, strip mining hills for minerals, and so forth.

This flagging system has a lot of potential if staying flagged gives you bonuses.

I am not clear why people are so upset about heinous.

You raise undead and get flagged for a few minutes while they are out collecting goods for you. Nobody sees.

How does that render necromancy nonviable?

True it prevents you flaunting your cool necromantic skills in public without getting smacked by the self-righteous side... but so what, do you really expect get away with raising undead while a Paladin is watching ? Just do what is probably normal for a necromancer and do all that evil dark necro stuff in private.

It's not getting whacked by the righteous that has people questioning about the heinous flag, it's the fact that all these other playstyles get bonuses for opening themselves up to pvp but the necromancer gets no such bonus. Unless the bonus is overpowered undead I don't really see any incentive for this type of playstyle. The necromancer is also at risk from being ganked from anyone, they don't have to be good.

The only reason I could see a bonus for someone using slaves is free labor, but then this would have to be enough of a bonus for someone to want to weigh the risk versus the reward.

Valid solution to playing a necromancer, when you are killed you actually become the undead and can continue fighting.

I don't really care if we have a flying city, it just bugs me when someone says "I don't like flying cities so don't make one". It doesn't really take anyone else into consideration.

Rafkin wrote:

Bandits can just demand 1,000 gold with Stand/Deliver and reduce their penalties for kiling you when you decline. AND get more loot!

It's possible instead of doing a set amount, you demand a % of their cargo, and maybe a max of 60-75%. Or maybe GW says no mercy, and allows demands of 100%

I do believe the phrase is "Gimme all your money!"

I like the idea of doing nothing moves you towards 0. Makes it easier for traders to stay neutral so they can get the trading bonus for flagging themselves.

In the case of Evil vs Good moving towards 0, this should be a long process, I'm thinking months for someone at either extreme.

Given that you eventually become lawful good just by doing nothing. Will the following:

Characters with high law vs. chaos can also give law vs. chaos points from their own pool to more chaotic players to reward lawful behavior the system can't quantify, though the amount is limited.

... also work in reverse allowing you to give chaos points?

Otherwise a true neutral druid will be in the odd situation of continually committing crimes just to stay neutral.

It would make more sense to gain law while standing in a lawful city rather than out in the woods.

Are there going to be bonuses for having the heinous flag for extended periods of time. Seems like most people are rewarded for flagging themselves except for those who use the undead. If you're not going to give an incentive to play a necromancer other than being killed repeatedly why even have the option in the game?

I have the same issue with Superhero movies that are more "super" than "hero". I'm not interested in spectacle. I want substance.

I'm not seeing the logic in your argument that a floating city would have no substance. And fantasy is about being spectacular not being ordinary.

Mathematically it makes no difference if you train 2 skills at once at %50 for 2 hours or 2 skills in a row at %100 for an hour each. I see no reason why you could or could not split up your skills as long as mathematically it was the same.

Flying cities, underground cities, emerald cities, invisible cities, tree cities. It's a fantasy game, might as well make it as fantastical as possible. If you build it, they will come.

If your minion used up slots then it is just a matter of balance. You either pick a few slots for your minion and the rest for yourself or you use them all for yourself. If you take all the slots then no minion.

Here is a quote from me from the the thread Screaming for Vengeance about a mechanical way to use reputation instead of choosing an alignment.

You could use reputation as a measurement of lawful vs unlawful as well as good vs evil.

Being a productive and lawful member of a settlement earns you reputation, even if that means being unlawful in another territory. Acting unlawful would earn you negative reputation in that settlement. Hence, you could be a law abiding citizen in settlement X but an outlaw in settlement Y.

Your moral actions are judged by the deities. Some actions are more appropriate to some gods while other gods would disapprove. You would gain reputation, or as I like to call it favor, with the deities who approve of such actions while losing favor with those that disapprove.

I would also suggest that the reputation, or favor, with the deities could also be used as a type of currency. Someone could use some of their favor from Calistria for instance to pay for a Death Curse or use some of their favor with Abadar to decrease the construction time of a building.

This would encourage people to play certain types of behaviors that are congruent with their character's motives. IE if you gained favor with Abadar by doing activities he approves of which would be focused on cities, wealth, merchants, and law then you could in turn use that favor to improve or gain a bonus to something that involved cities, wealth, merchants, and law.

Another example: someone who wanted to focus on assassination might try to gain favor with Norgorber by using actions that involve greed, secrets, poison, and murder and would then gain a temporary bonus or improvement in those types of activities.

Judgement by the core races will be through law. More chaotic societies are going to be less rigid and less severe punishments. Lawful societies will have more laws and more severe punishments.

@GrumpyMel - Oh I get where you are coming from and agree completely on the PnP side. Crossing that aspect over into PfO would almost be impossible, and since the game is built around everyone establishing their own territory and the reprecussions of their actions it would be counter productive.

I think building a settlement will be difficult enough.

You could use reputation as a measurement of lawful vs unlawful as well as good vs evil.

Being a productive and lawful member of a settlement earns you reputation, even if that means being unlawful in another territory. Acting unlawful would earn you negative reputation in that settlement. Hence, you could be a law abiding citizen in settlement X but an outlaw in settlement Y.

Your moral actions are judged by the deities. Some actions are more appropriate to some gods while other gods would disapprove. You would gain reputation, or as I like to call it favor, with the deities who approve of such actions while losing favor with those that disapprove.

Richter Bones wrote:

Deelron wrote:

There is a non-zero number of disabled people who play with software that can appear to be botting software, even if it's exceedingly rare id rather see players just completely blocked from all commerce then killed while they appeal and prove their situation.

Also I'd hated to see the resources from a bot to hit the market in another manner, even if the bot owner doesn't profit themselves it still does ancillary damage to the real harvesters.

If there are programs people need to play the game now is a good time to let the dev team know about what is needed and then it is possible it could be integrated or at least have 3rd party software allowed. For this it is better to ask for permission than for forgiveness.

Certainly but it's always going to be a moving target as the technology and options change, particularly if there is a form of auto-scripting detection included within the game. The above was a response to the handling a "bot" flag (if even such a thing is a consideration) and an argument for locking someone out of commerce instead of being able to blanket kill them repeatedly, a much less annoying way for an actual player who may have set off a false positive.

I would like to see any type of third party software get the ban hammer unless it has had prior approval. Letting us kill "botters" repeatedly is vengeful but fun. Just the thought of it brings a smile to my face.

1000! WTF.... 10 posts disappeared!

It's mind control! Better get your aluminum foil deflector hat before it is too late!

Imbicatus wrote:

Quandary wrote:

Jiminy wrote:

It could simply be that casting detect alignment is seen as rude and a little anti-social. People are free to do it, but others may shun them for it - if people roleplay that is.

Certainly, at minimum. Definitely if they're Neutral they may well take offense ;-)

And if they're Evil, of course, seeing you Cast Detect Evil is giving them warning of what's coming,
so they may well decide to flee then and there, or decide to take the advantage of first attack against you.
This would be pretty much how it works in the pen&paper game as well.

Or they may just start observing the halfling tradition of carrying a lead sheet.

I support sheets of lead in PFO.

I prefer the Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie.

I want to be able to create a character that focuses entirely on healing and possibly healing potions. I don't want just some variation of a cleric but a true healer that makes money selling potions and resurrecting the dead. Money, of course, is for the church and the orphans.