Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 327 posts (350 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character. 3 aliases.
One of the stated goals of the Viridian Circle is to target settlements (and individuals) which have expanded and harvested resources in a reckless manner. So that got me thinking, how will we identify settlements, chartered companies and individuals who act in this manner?
Settlement Buildings
There should be a wealth of information that is collected that pertains to a settlement. If there was a mechanic called ‘Growth Rate’, then this could provide the ruling body of the settlement with a figure to display how rapidly a settlement is growing. This would enable them to see if they are growing in an efficient and cost effective manner. This could be a measure of the current skill level of characters assigned to various buildings, as well as the number of projects on the go (and the average skill rating of the contributors), the amount of resources being gathered and allocated to settlement projects and perhaps a measure of the amount of wastage on settlement projects.
In regards to wastage the lead on a project could choose how they want to manage a building project. For instance if a particular kind of training facility is required to be built quickly, then the lead could decide to make a reduction in the quality of the overall project and increase the amount of wastage. Both of these choices would affect the amount of raw resources required for the project, the time it would take to build the structure and the minimum required skill level to contribute to the project. These kinds of choices should also affect the on-going cost of maintenance, development index rating and the end appearance of the structure.
While it might be cheaper and quicker to build structures quickly at reduced quality. This would have an overall effect on the ambience of the overall settlement, as well as effect on-going maintenance costs. So civic pride might come into play, as well as some characters might not want to go to the ‘shabby rundown’ settlement of Brighthaven.
It should also be possible via relevant skill checks and having a look around a settlement to get a feel if a settlement is growing at a reckless manner (by viewing the growth rate and other stats) and what level of wastage has been used to construct the buildings. All of the above would not only assist the Viridian Circle in deeming who to target, but make each settlement unique and feel alive.
Settlement Resource Gathering & Strip-Mining
I’ve mentioned above that there should be a wealth of information available to community leaders of a settlement. This should include the efficiency of their resource gathering efforts. We’ve heard it mentioned that raiders will be able strip-mine resources of rival settlements. I propose that strip-mining be an option not only for raiders, but also for settlement harvesting operations as well as individual harvesters.
This make sense and allows everyone to make a meaningful choice when it comes to harvesting. Do I want to harvest this resource to maximise the quality of the material being harvested or do I want to accept a reduction in the overall quality of the resource so I can do it quickly. This kind of decision making is as applicable to a small harvesting group in the dangerous wilderness, trying to quickly mine a rare but expensive resource. To Settlements (or others) who are at war (or feuding) to quickly harvest resources so they can churn out some needed armour or weapons.
On a side note I think it would be fantastic if harvesters could harvest materials that have a higher quality rating at the expense of increasing the time taken and reducing the yield from the harvested node. For instance a Dwarven harvester who is harvesting an average quality iron deposit might decide to only take the best of the bunch of the iron ore, thus reducing his yield but in return getting good quality iron ore. At the refining phase a refiner could pay less for average quality iron ore (and get more of it) and then refine it to produce a higher quality, or buy the good quality iron ore as it saves them time. They could keep it at this level of quality or refine it to excellent quality iron ore losing some in the process.
Not only does this add another layer to harvesting (and as a consequence refining and crafting) but it also enables the Viridian Circle to target those that are harvesting recklessly. Obviously the last point is the most important ;-p
I would imagine that the way in which you harvest should have a visual effect of the resource node, and also be detectable via appropriate skills checks. So if you stumble across a shonky looking resource node that has been recklessly ripped apart, you know the harvesters have been naughty. Conversely a well-constructed resource harvesting camp would leave the resource node in pristine order. For the above to have any meaning we would need to be able to determine who has been harvesting a particular resource node as well as use skills to get an insight into a settlements resource gathering efforts.
Also imagine if two rival settlements approached the same escalation cycle to befriend them and put them on to the other party. You could have a situation when the rival settlements enter into a bidding war, or there could be a race to see what settlement accomplishes the EC quests first.
All of this could be further complicated by the fact that not all EC monsters will keep their word of honour. You could end up buying the friendship of a chaotic evil EC only to have it surprisingly turn on you. Perhaps all of this could modified by how closely the alignment of the settlement/individual matches the alignment of the EC, adjusted by skills you've acquired in diplomacy and the appropriate knowledge sub-skill.
Going by that train of thought, there could then be "good guy monster" escalations. A camp of Crusaders heading north, stop and get gently convinced that the no good "evil" settlement is a front for demons from the world wound...
Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if evil escalation cycles crop up around good settlements and vice versa. This would allow a lawful good settlement to help an escalation cycle of heroic knights that is near that evil settlement.
I was also thinking about the idea of paying tribute to protect yourself from an EC. This could be done by smaller settlements that don't have the manpower to defeat it. An element of danger would be added if the tribute needs to be delivered to the monster hex. No don't rival settlements would find a baggage train full of this tribute a tempting target, even if its nothing fancy and common resources useful for settlements. Stop enough of the tribute getting through and a settlement could find themselves in a very sticky position.
...The current stage of the escalation describes what is happening at that point in the event. For example, the Bonedancer goblin invasion begins with scouting parties of goblins searching for good places to attack. When players kill or chase off enough of the goblin scouts, the Bonedancers send stronger parties of wolf-handlers to find out what's been happening to their scouts. In the face of growing opposition, the Bonedancer shamans decide to reinforce their warriors by robbing the local graveyards and animating the dead. Each stage generates its own specific quests and missions for PCs who want to defeat the threat—or, in some cases, egg it on.
As I've mentioned previously the Viridian Circle want to be skilled at advancing escalation cycles (EC). This raises a number of questions:
How would an EC cycle be advanced
If we help an escalation cycle to advance, do we becomes allies of the EC and thus immune to its effects
How can you advance an EC, since it is initially hostile to everyone
Would it be a viable strategy to encourage EC's to grow around you to provide a dangerous buffer zone around your settlement.
My preference would be to allow characters to go to a specific spot on the monster hex (possibly via stealth), where we can attempt diplomatic relations with the monsters/creatures. If our diplomacy checks are favorable we become non-hostile in the eyes of the monsters and we will be given a series of quests to enable the monster hex to grow rapidly.
If we are successful in a number of these quests then it would be nice if we could declare a settlement as an ally to the monsters and a specific settlement as a preferred enemy. This could tailor what direction the EC heads in (i.e. towards the enemy settlement). Hexes belonging to the allied settlement would be left alone by the monsters, which could eventually completely surround the settlement and provide a handy buffer zone. If you assist a monster hex to grow to a certain size, then perhaps you gain a special monster related artifact to place in your settlement.
Perhaps by allying with monster hexes your settlement could gain access to special equipment, skills, mounts or defensive properties.
A downside to allying with a monster hex is they require regular tribute to continue to leave you alone, and other settlements could discover that you've been assisting them during there own fight against the monsters.
Ravening, why did you only list TEO, T7V and UNC. What problems do you have with PAX or the dwarves company (Deep<something>) or others for that matter?
We have no problems with any other company or group. We'd happily work and group that respects the natural world.
Bluddwolf wrote:
Lam wrote:
Ravening, why did you only list TEO, T7V and UNC. What problems do you have with PAX or the dwarves company (Deep<something>) or others for that matter?
I believe he was pointing out perceived rival groups. Pax is not a perceived rival group to any of the three he mentioned, rightly or wrongly.
The Viridian Order doesn't have any issues with any of the groups listed above. It's as Bluddwolf says, the various groups have issues with each other. So when a spat occurs we wouldn't help either side, unless one of those groups or settlements of the groups are acting recklessly towards the natural world.
Our standards are fairly clear which makes us predictable and reliable allies. Cunning groups would try and manipulate rivals into abusing natural resources. If this became a pattern, then its fairly clear where our assistance would follow.
Of particular interest to us will be how settlements act when they are under the greatest pressure. If a settlement that has a good record of respecting nature, suddenly becomes short-sighted and strip-mines their resources when facing intense pressure. Then that is incredibly damning in our eyes and shows a short-sighted attitude.
It's easy to be 'good' when things are fine and dandy. It's how you act when under pressure that shows us your true self.
Actually, there is nothing in the description about Animate Dead binding souls or even bringing an evil spirit in to possess the skeleton. All it says it that it animates a dead body, the same description as animating a lifeless object.
Now we know that necromancers are bad people because that's what the books (and much genre literature) tell us, but the assumption in Animate Dead being evil is that they are bad because... they are bad. In game fluff terms the necromancer is the pale and antisocial guy who has an unhealthy fascination with dead people.
However, this is assuming a lot of flavour and genre. The rulebook itself merely describes animating a skeleton as
** spoiler omitted **...
I believe it's the type of magic (negative energy) and how it is done that makes it evil. Yes it's very similar to animate object. But animate object doesn't use negative energy to bring the bones to life. It becomes more obvious with the higher level undead creation spells that actually trap and bind the soul to the body. At least with a skeleton you're not summoning the previous host back to make it move, as its a mindless undead.
My viewpoint is that the act of summoning and binding negative energy to the bones is inherently corrupting to the spell caster, while animate object is using a process to make the same object get up and move, but doesn't affect the caster. You could temporarily doe something similar with telekinesis as well. Though it would require concentration to move the corpse around.
We also have to remember that good and evil are much more of an absolute force in Pathfinder and similar fantasy games. It's evil because it's evil
Yep Animate Undead and Create Undead are evil spells, while animate object isn't.
I was getting worried for a sec with Ryan's & Stephen's talk about why pets are bad/difficult for the server. Especially as someone who wants to play a Druid. So I'm happy to hear that they intend for this to be a core part of the Ranger & Druid classes.
In relation to necromancy, I think it would work out just fine to use undead to protect settlements, large scale battles and especially for harvest and hauling.
Perhaps the choice to have a settlement protected by skeletons might be quite cheap and give you a large volume, while not necessarily being as good as expensive live troops. A settlement could also have more expensive undead minions, which have different abilities from live troops so it all balances out.
Fauna and flora do it the right way while most settlements do it the wrong way. It’s perfectly clear cut if you think about it!
They do it the way that is conducive to their own survival, just like people do. Ants pile sand, beavers dam rivers, humans build towns. The more social an animal is, the more likely it is to work together to build stuff. Whether it's an axe or a beaver or a termite doing the biting, animals do their thing and trees fall. Yes, it's perfectly clear cut if you think about it.
I'm truly shocked that after reading posts in this thread that you entertain the vain hope of having a constructive adult conversation with me in relation to the merits of settlements and how they're almost exactly live ants.
As Brother Zael said we target naughty settlements, harvesters and individuals. Also since this is a game, this is our way of 'maximizing human interaction', which means if you're bad (which is purely subjective from our point of view) you become our content we become yours, or more likely we use others to do our dirty work for us :)
Pax Keovar wrote:
Have fun trying to ferret out the moles!
Since my character spends a lot of time in various animal forms, it isn't unsual for him to eat ferret's and moles for breakfast.
Being wrote:
Pax Keovar wrote:
Have fun trying to ferret out the moles!
These are 'beauty marks', tyvm. </sniff>
Indeed what fun would there be if the occasional ferret or mole didn't rear there tasty head.
True wisdom comes from admitting you don't know it all my friend. Turn your back on the comforts of civilization and embrace the awe and majesty found in nature. Join with the Viridian Circle and you journey to true wisdom shall commence.
I always wanted to play a evangelical type character, maybe my character will head in this direction, after all. It's so much fun.
How does the Viridian Circle feel about natural species vs. those of extraplanar origin? Would they feel that the invasion of so many different races from different planes, from Aasimar to Wayang (assuming some of them are eventually added) might spell destruction for their natural world? Would they help Human and Elven civilizations fend off the attacks of Outsiders?
I'm interested in this group, though it might not be the best fit for my ideas.
Hey! These freaks of nature (outsiders) should stay where they belong and leave the material plane and our jobs for material planar natives.
Kidding aside Brother Zael and Brother Gricken are correct. We judge individuals by their actions not their origins. Having said that, a full on planar invasion would make us perturbed in the extreme, especially if the invaders started to change the material world to their liking.
If a settlement of outsiders attacked another settlement, and the outsider settlement was respectful of nature, then we wouldn’t necessarily side with the Humans or Elves, as this is no different to the endless pointless squabbles that ‘civilized’ people love to indulge in. Individuals within the Viridian Circle might side with the native settlement, but as a whole it would take some convincing that we should side with humans and elves over others.
In regards to assisting Human an Elvin settlements where our ideals overlap, that would be a personal matter for each member of the Viridan Circle to decide. We’re much more likely to assist a settlement against aberration & undead escalation cycles. Though we might be equally inclined to warn neighbouring settlements as to the location and disposition of these threats and let them do most of the donkey’s work.
We’d equally be willing to assist a settlement that is hostile to a settlement that has been very naughty in relation to expansion and harvesting natural resources. Don’t confuse this with loyalty or friendship though, as we’d turn on them in a heartbeat if they became as bad as the hostile settlement, or assist yet another settlement to help bring them down. We're equal opportunist in that regard. Our only loyalty is to preserving nature.
Thanks for all the help it's much clearer now. I can choose Elf for my initial race then change to Half-Elf once its released.
Pinosaur wrote:
just live in the woods until the skill tree for your class 'grows' ?
In relation to the skills I figured I'd have to invest in skills until Druid becomes available. So as Pinosaur I'll invest in Wizard skills and other skills that will fit in with my character concept.
Thank you everyone for clearing this up for me and thank you brother Zael for summoning the oracle of quotes and knowledge.
I actually have a very different take on blight druids than most people I think.
Quote:
Blight Druid
The devoted servants of nature corrupted, ruined, and destroyed, blight druids are the caretakers of lands ravaged by natural disaster. While some are devoted to reforming and reclaiming lands despoiled by the ravages of civilization, others seek out the more rapacious violence inherent in nature and feed the creeping rot and decay that brings an end to all things.
Nature Bond (Ex): A blight druid may not bond with an animal companion, but may either call a familiar as a wizard of her druid level or select from the Darkness, Death, and Destruction domains in addition to those normally available.
Vermin Empathy (Su): A blight druid can improve the attitude of vermin as a normal druid can with animals. Vermin have a starting attitude of unfriendly. The blight druid can also improve the attitude of animals and mindless undead creatures that were formerly animals, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check unless the animal or undead has a disease special attack. This ability replaces wild empathy.
Miasma (Ex): Starting at 5th level, if a blight druid is adjacent to a creature at the beginning of its turn, the creature must succeed at a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the druid's level + the druid's Wisdom modifier or become sickened for 1 round. A creature of the animal, fey, or plant type that fails its save is nauseated for 1 round and sickened for 1 minute thereafter. If the creature makes its save, it is immune to this effect for 24 hours, as are creatures immune to disease. This ability replaces trackless step and resist nature's lure.
Blightblooded (Ex): At 9th level, a blight druid gains immunity to all diseases, including natural and supernatural diseases. She also becomes immune to effects that would cause her to become sickened or nauseated. This ability replaces venom immunity.
Plaguebearer (Su): Starting at 13th
...
You make some excellent points Andius. I wouldn't have a problem with a Blight Druid, and I too believe they seek to preserve corrupted nature, rather than corrupting nature. So the Viridian Circle would welcome Blight Druids. Unless they have the Death domain (and use it's spells) or summon shadows. The second that happens we'd want to destroy him/her has a heretic and abomination. Since we can't actually, this does pose a problem, so we'd ban him and kill him repeated. Also I don't have an issue with necromancy spells, as long as they don't summon/create undead. I also don't have an issue with summoning spells, unless they summon aberrations.
As an aside. Since the whole mark of Pharisma is an abomination and perversion of the natural cycles of life. I imagine that I and the rest of the Viridian Circle will be investigating this most thoroughly. As a consequence we'll probably (hopefully) learn some cool skills to boot. My character will be pretty annoyed that he and others can't die, which will make a fun twist on playing a character in this type of game.
@Gedichtewicht
Torrbron would be most welcome in our never-ending fight against aberrations and undead. The Viridian Circle is a very open and accepting organisation. If enough members would prefer to target evil-based settlements that are too expansionist or reckless in regards to managing the resources that nature so bountifully provides, then we would target them first. Hopefully it would stand as an example for other Settlements to take notice, if we politely ask them to moderate their actions.
Whether a settlement is evil or not doesn’t come into our view point, only its actions. The Viridian Circle is quite reasonable, and easy to negotiate with. If a settlement (good or bad) becomes aware of our activities*, and comes to us seeking dialog, then we would hear them out, and cease and desist if they moderate their actions. They would be given an opportunity to prove their commitment to not reckless abusing nature. If they live up to their end of the deal, problem solved. If not we will continue without let-up, turning a deaf ear to any future pleas for mercy or dialog and wipe them out completely, in as humane a manner as possible. Like squashing an unwanted insect. It’s nothing personal.
@Kobold Cleaver
Gricken would be welcome, and I’m sure he would take a very different approach as an Archddruid (if he earns the title). We’d treat Gricken like a loose cannon, in that we would aim him in the desired direction and stand well back while he takes glee in destroying/harassing those who unwisely act contrary to the best interests of the natural world. After all, no one said you shouldn’t take pleasure in your work
@Brother Zael
It seems your desire to create a neutral Settlement could align perfectly with our desire to create a Sanctuary (similar to a National Park). We would prefer the ‘Settlement’ at the heart of this sacred ground, be relatively small and not interested in harvesting the precious resources within in sphere of influence, so you ideals could work perfectly. This Sanctuary isn’t a place where hunting, farming or even minor harvesting would be taboo. But it would need to be balanced and responsible and allow for the natural cycles to replenish themselves and even grow.
Individual members are more than welcome to have treaties and relationships with other organisations and Settlements. In fact we encourage it. However, if it were discovered that a member placed loyalty to their other interests over the loyalty to the Viridian Circle and nature, that wouldn’t go well for them.
Incidentally Brother Zael. Members of the Viridian Circle refer to each other as brother and sister, as we’re all children of nature.
Viridian Circle Activities
The Archdruid of each area is free to deal with Settlements in whatever manner they prefer. If they prefer to give the Settlement a warning and time to change, its well and good. If they prefer to harass the Settlements resource gathers, support banditry and assist nations hostile to the Settlement, that also is well and good.
The Viridian Circle favour guerrilla warfare type attacks, and favour subtly over overt displays of military force. So it would be difficult to know if the Viridian Circle is behind the mysterious rise in escalation cycles, harassment of gatherers, or sudden rise in banditry. All of the activities can be done without overtly revealing our intentions. Our tactic’s and diffuse organisational structure will make it a nightmare to deal with effectively.
I was not aware that Druids were particularly anti-undead / anti-Necromancer. Is that from the PF TT lore or just your own thing?
What is your stance on slavery?
If you are frequently in the wilds, I can see our two organizations coming into contact frequently. What is your stance on banditry?
In many cases we (UNC) will be preying upon gatherers that are taking natural resources on a large scale. I see this as being a potential for our interests to have some common ground.
As far as I'm aware Druid's have always been against Necromancy. They see it as an abomination and perversion of the natural cycles of life.
Since my character is CN, he is ambivalent on the subject of slavery. Obviously he wouldn't want to be a slave. Then again as long as the slaves aren't being used to strip mine or otherwise disrupt the balance of things, he wouldn't do much about it. After all slavery is an invention of civilized people. And those who prefer civilization over living a more simpler natural existence, have never made any sense to him.
My character's personal view on banditry, is it's a healthy mechanism for limiting the encroachment of settlements and those bizarre types that want to rip up and harvest the bounties of the earth. When appropriate he'd actively help you, heal you and even lead you to suitable targets.
However, if your little bandit group's predations becomes too disruptive, then he'd betray you in a heart beat, and lead your enemies to you.
It's fair to say that he views settlements and 'civilization' as the greater of true evils, so would side with you for quite a while, especially if your group showed signs of living in harmony with nature and being fairly low impact on the environment. After all. Just because something isn't perfectly balanced in one region, doesn't mean the greater regions is out of balance because of it.
I’m putting out feelers for who would be interested in a Druidic / ‘defenders of the natural world’ type chartered company (not sure if this is the correct terminology).
Chartered Company Name: The Viridian Circle
Alignment: Neutral
Members Alignments: N, NG, NE, CN
Ideology:
Protectors of the natural world
Enemies of aberrations & undead
Keepers of the Balance
Less of a settlement and more of a group of like minded characters who share information and support. I could see the Viridian Circle with operatives throughout the River Kingdoms, who provide information on settlements, groups and organizations that act recklessly (particularly if it affects the natural world), or expands to rapidly. I could see operatives doing some of the following activities
Attacking aberrations/undead escalation cycles
Destroying Aberrations
Destroying Undead and those who create/use them
Advancing escalation cycles that threaten settlements that are expanding too quickly or acting recklessly
Setting up a Sanctuary (for wild animals, fey creatures etc.) and policing its borders
In structure operatives would act fairly autonomously. Each Settlement would have an Archdruid that observes it and the surrounding area, Archdruid’s would form a council of peers and from among them would be selected a Grand Druid. The Grand Druid would be chosen in a similar manner as outlined in the Green Faith Acolyte prestige class. Archdruids would co-ordinate the activities of the operatives in the area and police the activities of individual members.
Has any information been released for character creation during EE. Specifically I'm interested in what will happen to existing characters once new racial and role options become available.
At this stage my character concept revolves around playing a half-elf from the Mordant Spire who is interested in taking skills as both a Wizard and a Druid.
Would I have to create an Elf and then be given the option of changing it to a half elf, or will I need to create a new character once that race becomes available.
Also if I want to have Druid skills and abilities should I choose cleric and then swap or will I either need to start fresh or just add those skills onto my existing character.
indeed, but as it was brought up before, nobody is going to randomly attack someone, and Bandits aren't going to go after a target they cannot get profit from, esp. if it is just going to end in a huge rep lost. And NPCs will still be a problem, but there will be plenty of people who will be happily occupying those NPCs' time.
If I knew my reputation wasn't going to be devastated by attacking random naked mobs, I would happily attack them. For two main reasons.
1) Naked characters running around the server would annoy me no end.
2) IMHO it's an exploit I would like to encourage players that it isn't worth the trouble of doing this.
Additionally if I was a Bandit I would SAD that character. They have coin, and they won't want the inconvenience of having to start back at base. Sounds like a good reason for the naked mob to pay the toll, to me.
You might read my post and think it makes no logical sense to attack them and lose some rep. It doesn't have to make sense to you, it only has to make sense to me. I suspect others would also attack for similar reasons, or just because they thought it was funny.
So I might not do it all the time but I would do it occasionally. Just as I'd occasionally SAD them myself. It would be hilarious for my solo character to SAD a mob of naked runners.
Indeed. Imagine sneaking into a settlement to view their Most Wanted board, just to see if you're on there. It would also be fun if you could get a 'Notorious' title by being on the Most Wanted list of 3-5 Settlements. This would it much easier for other to identify you, and would be bragging rights in less lawful communities.
I really hope we get access to the various skill tree options before the game goes live. That would enable us to put some serious planning time and thought into our character creation and progression. I know it's been mentioned before but a character generator system would really help. If Goblinworks made the skill tree data files available I'm sure someone would cook up something spiffy.
Another option is for everyone's name tag to start out as a generic title (i.e. "Male Human"). To gain further information you need to interact with them. Each time you encounter/interact with them, a recognition check is rolled to see if you remember their face and name. Interact with them enough or party with them for an hour or so and they get added to your list of acquaintances. After enough time they get added to your list of friends.
This system could also be used to allow you to identity 'famous' characters you've never met.
I hope that rare hard to find NPC trainers can teach characters rare/unusual abilities which may simulate prestige classes. In order to get their training you may need to gain influence/prestige with them. I would also hope that players eventually have the ability to create our own role specific key object which we can then choose what role abilities to add to them (like spells in a spellbook), including abilities from other roles. This would then allow us to have a variety of key objects in our inventory which we could swap to depending on the situation at hand.
Ryan has repeated stated that the power curve for characters will be relatively flat and that after a few months of play a newbie character will still be effective in a fight against an older character (especially in groups). If this is true it may not be too hard to train combat skills to a point where you're an asset in a group fight, while not being at the cutting edge.
This should mean that if you choose to train crafting skills it may not make your character useless to your group. Actually having some crafting ability could be a big draw card as your group will likely benefit from this arrangement, and be more than understanding due to the benefits that your multi-skilled character brings to the group.
A Theurge is already possible; you just train both wizard and cleric. Pow, done. You can switch implements and/or weapons to access abilities and spells from either class. The disadvantage here is both that you won't have the dedication bonus in both your classes, and that you'll take longer to get to an advanced level of training.
It would be cool for them to add hybrid weapons or implements so that you can use two classes' abilities at the same time. As an example, maybe enchanting a weapon with the holy enchantment causes it to replace half its attacks with equivalent cleric attacks. Maybe there's spellbooks which also act as holy symbols for clerics of Nethys. Perhaps if you use daggers you can access your melee fighter training and your ranged fighter training, but do less damage and have less range. And so on.
The above is true in TT. There is no need for a Mystic Theurge prestige class because characters can gain levels in both Cleric & Wizard. However, most would rather have the ability to advance in spellcasting in two classes while giving up some of the abilities of the two base classes. It's a trade-off.
So yes, I could train Wizard and Cleric separately and in 2.5 years be the equivalent of Cleric 10 / Wizard 10. But I'd rather have access to the Mystic Theurge prestige class and be Cleric 3 / Wizard 7 / Mystic Theurge 10. By doing this I would still be behind in skills of a pure level 20 characters, and still have the challenge of deciding what load-out of implements, skills and items to use for a particular encounter. The object is versatility.
I'm hopeful that Goblinworks will release the core classes and 'core' prestige classes. But I thought it prudent to ask anyway, as this will affect how I design my starting character.
Disclaimer: I'm aware the terms classes, levels and prestige classes don't perfect reflect the current game design. I'm using these terms for ease of reference, and not because I'm clueless about the blogs.
Personally I tend to agree with your suggestion. Though if someone has a criminal flag in a hex then I'd rather that be obvious and visible.
Another way of handling this would be to have a local bounties board, which has information of the top most wanted (repeat offenders) and perhaps those that have committed a recent crime. Characters would then to check the board and see a picture which would allow the criminal to be recognized. Once the criminal flag wears off the wanted poster is removed. You could also do something similar with bounties placed on a character, and assume it includes a picture of the target.
Actually this is exactly supposed to be a 10+ page long (civilized) rage fest between UNC and its "allies" and everyone else who has a problem with UNC.
I got tired of people getting into it on other threads, and being recommended making a thread for it that wasn't promoting UNC's policy thread. So I made this.
My mistake. TBH I'd rather this sort of finger pointing (from both sides) remains in a thread like this, than crowd other threads. Now I know the purpose of this thread I'll bow out of it.
@Being
I feel your suggestion of not automatically seeing flags or peoples names my be best put in a thread of it's own, as it's probably getting lost here. Personally I tend to agree with you. Though if someone has a criminal flag in a hex then I'd rather that be obvious and visible.
Another way of handling this would be to have a local bounties board, which has information of the top most wanted (repeat offenders) and perhaps those that have committed a recent crime. Characters would then to check the board and see a picture which would allow the criminal to be recognized. Once the criminal flag wears off the wanted poster is removed. You could also do something similar with bounties placed on a character, and assume it includes a picture of the target.
If UNC were all just role-playing Bandits, I wouldn't have a problem either. Unfortunately, Bluddwolf and Xeen have a long and sordid history of attacking new posters who expressed concerns about PvP, and of significantly misrepresenting the way PvP will work in PFO while doing so.
DeciusBrutus wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
If UNC were all just role-playing Bandits, I wouldn't have a problem either. Unfortunately, Bluddwolf and Xeen have a long and sordid history of attacking new posters who expressed concerns about PvP, and of significantly misrepresenting the way PvP will work in PFO while doing so.
Evidence please!
Show where I or Xeen have disagreed with a Dev response or Dev Blog on how PVP will work?
There was that point a little bit ago where you lied about how the SAD came about and implied that it was certain that anyone who wanted to could issue a SAD demand that was impossible to meet.
Nihimon wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
So far, the only "misrepresentation" that's been dug up...
I'm loath to spend time dredging all this crap up again. I know most folks have no interest in seeing a Fifth Crusade against Bluddwolf.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
... accusations of things like "lying" and "attacking new posters" need to be backed up.
If you're interested in why I still refuse to let Bluddwolf and Xeen off the hook for attacking new posters and misrepresenting the game, I suggest you start here. Then feel free to continue here, here, and here.
Please for the love of god, don't let this thread fall into a 10 page rage fest between UNC and Nihimon & Co. It's part of the reason why I (and probably many others) are loath to post as much on the forums. So please no finger pointing or dredging up old history. To be clear from my reading of this thread Nihimon threw the first punch in this thread so don't take this as a rant against UNC.
Now back on topic. I don't have a problem with how UNC has stated they will act as bandits, as we need the 'bad' guys. Some of the disagreement seems to be over the finer detail of the flag system. Such as will a criminal flag in one area translate to a criminal flag in a hex controlled by a different party. Or will the attacker flag only be seen by the character (and his group) that has been attacked. I believe the simple answer to such questions is we don't know yet, and we haven't been given that level of fine detail yet. Heck Goblinworks may not know the answer themselves yet, as they may not be up to coding that part of the game.
In relation to taking a rep hit against 'bandits' before they've issued a SAD, I agree it's a tricky issue. I can see some player using this as a Mexican standoff, in they a group could easily block a road a caravan wants to use and refuse to budge. If the caravan guards attack first then they take the rep hit. So what can be done about this type of behavior?
Long story short, I will be playing Pathfinder Online, but unlike others I won’t have copious amounts of time to invest into the game. However, since a settlement is a ‘community project’ the establishment of Shadow-Haven could still go forward, if people are interested in an evil settlement that isn’t interested in world domination. To be clear the main goals of Shadow-Haven would be as follows
Provide a safe encouraging environment where people are free to pursue knowledge that many deem unwholesome or down-right repugnant
Provide a haven for misfits, the maligned and the malevolent. As well as services and products to cater to their needs and other discerning customers
So if Shadow-Haven sounds like your kind of place then post your interest and we’ll see if we can’t get another evil settlement into the game.
There are very few truly smart bandits, because most truly smart people (who are not driven by emotion or religion) understand that cooperation is way better on returns then competition, those who are greedy know that they need to be deceptive, to build the image of being cooperative while secretly manipulating things in their favor.
That is this first reason bandits are usually not smart. The second reason is that most bandits are bandits out of desperation or are mentally sick and like being bullies (generally resulting from being abused or incompetant)
It would be nice if pfo maintained that dynamic, made it so cooperation has a high enough benefit that any smart person will play bandits only for rp and not because they actually expect to make a decent living.
When I first read this post I wondered if you were trying to be intentionally insulting and inflammatory, even your comment in brackets is irksome. However I’ll put that aside and not respond in kind, as there is no need to throw more fuel on the fire.
One point that people seem to be struggling with (myself included) is that Bluddwolf and the UNC are going to play the type of game that appeals to them, irrespective of whether it is more efficient/beneficial or note. I’m sure many of us have created characters in DnD which were not min max godlings, rather they were fun to play.
You’re not going to win an argument/discussion with Bluudwolf and the UNC because that is how they want to play. I also suspect that what the post here (which often seems intended to get a reaction) may not be true representation of what they may actually do (only time will tell). I could be wrong but they seem to like getting a reaction, which some are more than happy to oblige with.
Whether or not RL bandits are dumb, bullies, mentally sick or been subjected to abuse is irrelevant to why a person wants to play this character type. Bandits are a needed part of this game as they will provide conflict and become targets for others. All of this is good and will add depth to the game. Whether we agree with the UNC methods or philosophy is also irrelevant. It’s how they intend to play. As long as they’re not being griefers (which Goblinworks will eventually deal with) more power to them. Heck I might even join them for a spot of banditry, or another group as it will be fun to be the bad guy.
Most of what you’re hoping for will be created by players interacting with other players. For instance a group of players will decide to band together and create a settlement/organisation. From those in character (IC) and out of character (OOC) interactions players/characters will be assigned various roles. PFO will include tools that will allow characters to be assigned to different positions within the settlement/organisation. These roles will affect the DI of a settlement and/or give certain characters control over finances, resources, and how the organisation is run.
In relation to Priesthoods. I wouldn’t be surprised if a character has to perform quests in game that allowed them to become official parts of a religious originations. Much like assassins will have to join an NPC guild to gain access to various abilities. We’ve also been told that our characters will be able to advance their reputations with an NPC organisation at the detriment of decreasing our reputations with opposed organisations. I suspect that being part of a religious group will allow characters to learn special restricted skills and abilities, which very well may act in a similar fashion to your prayer ideas.
While we haven’t been given the nitty gritty on all of the above, it certainly sounds like PFO will be able to cater to the gameplay style you’re hoping for.
@Bad Horse, your avatar matches another player who posts here very often, and it took me until your 2nd post to realize you were someone different.
Had I paid more attention to your name on that first post, I would have immediately greeted you with a hearty "Hail, Thoroughbred of Sin!" :)
At last a connoisseur of quality entertainment. I was going to have “He rides across the nation the thoroughbred of sin” as my signature but I failed my Intelligence check. It’s true I did get the idea from seeing Xeen’s avatar. Once I saw the headless horsemen picture I just had to create this alias, apparently 14 people use that picture also. My shameful geek confession is that I use the bad horse song as my ring tone on my cell phone.
Perhaps a contract could be accepted by an individual or by a chartered company. This would allow an individual to create a chartered company (such as ‘The Cleaners’). When a contract is created then the creator could restrict the contract to a specific company or leave it open. If ‘The Cleaners’ successfully completes the contract then the reward could automatically go into their account.
Having assassins set themselves up as a company would also allow the reputation of the kill to be assigned against their name. Perhaps when a contract is made the creator could see a list of all assassin companies and their corresponding reputation and success rates. This would also allow for an assassination leaderboard.
I tender my most humble and abject apologies. Oh the joys of the written language. ;)
Ravening, big props to you for owning up and coming here on the boards and admitting you may have not done all your homework, gotten excited and submitted. That is great. Sorry that means this year is likely a loss, but learn and come back next year. Join in the discussion, have fun, be a part of the process. That's what I like to see and I LOVE your attitude. Good work. Hey, we all mess up, its how you recover not how you fall. Thanks for coming in.
If nothing else I have a whole year to work on some superstar creations. I'll be carefully analysing this years success stories, and making my own submissions (as a trail run) for the various categories. Hopefully this will put me in a better position next year to make a submission without making any mistakes.
@Robb Smith
Why would you go out alone to harvest a rare resource if you already know you could be killed and lose a significant amount of your inventory. It seems you already understand the risk vs reward scenarios with doing this type of action.
Firstly I want to clarify a few points. If you go to a rare resource spot to harvest it, you won’t be doing the harvesting. You will setup a camp and the NPC sims will harvest for you. Your job is to manage the harvesting operation and defend it from random encounters that are attracted to your harvesting efforts.
Since you’re harvesting a rare resource, you’re almost certain to incite attacks from monsters. Therefore when you go to harvest the valuable resource you’ll go expecting trouble and should be geared up for it. Thus if you attract the attention of monsters or other players you’re still expecting trouble and should have made preparations for it.
Secondly, let’s assume that you had no random encounters while the resource was harvested. What is your plan to get the resource back to safety? Assuming you already know that the resource is heavy and cumbersome and you can only carry a limited supply how were you planning on getting it to a safe point?
One would assume that you would have planned for this contingency already, and you have brought along extra bodies to both protect your harvesting operation, and to assist with carrying the resource back to a safe location.
In conclusion I really can’t see how it is a sensible decision to go off alone to try and harvest a rare resources. Even if there was no PVP you’d still have to have enough people with you to defend the operation from powerful random encounters, and have enough manpower to carry the resource home. It would be a bit silly to go off solo to do this operation as you’re almost certainly doomed to failure and frustration from the outset.
If we factor in the time it took to gather the resource then you would possibly have to make multiple hour long trips in an effort to kill off the monsters that just crashed your solo harvesting operation and then make multiple hour long trips carry your resource back to town, where you’d probably get attacked by other random encounters.
Therefore IMHO Solo harvesting = an unwise frustrating decision that would be a complete waste of time.
If it makes sense to travel as a group to harvest a resource, fight off monsters, and carry the resource back to town in a strictly non-pvp setting. Doesn’t it also make sense to take the same precautions in PFO where you’ll have to contend with other players wanting the resource you want.
You’ve already mentioned that you’re part of a guild that will field at least 200 players on day 1 of open enrolments. I suggest you allocate some of your guild to protect your harvesting operations. Heck! With that many players you could easily camp around a resource, create multiple camps, bleed the resource dry and safely bring it to market.
For others who don’t have the luxury of belonging to such a large guild, you’ll still need to be in a group if you want to venture into the wilds. Some other options to assist in your efforts could be as follows.
Build hide-outs near your harvesting camp to store important gear or harvested resources.
Have guards patrolling your camp to give you advance warning
Places traps around your harvesting camp
Go the long way home. Don’t travel known roads if you want your resources to get back to town
Send out scouts along you’re planned route to find a safe way home.
I’m sure more creative minds can easily add to the list.
Slaedrial views himself as a scholar first and foremost and sees they study and advancement of magic as his primary goal in life. Dejected by his kins narrow-minded restrictive approach to the ‘forbidden’ arts, Slaedrial has sought out like-minded seekers of knowledge and established the Community of Shadow-Haven.
I personally prefer a low magic game world as it makes you appreciate if you get a +2 weapon. So personally I'd rather have magic items drops be limited to say items less than 10kgp value and everything else needs to be crafted, often with rare components.
Otherwise I like the idea of legacy type items that you can tailor and advance, or a skill/merit badge system that allows you to do something similiar. I would much prefer to have an item that grows with my character, rather than throwing items away for the next best thing.
Another way to make artifact type items would be if the crafter had to pay the equivalent of xp to make them. Instead of xp it could be a hit in skill training time. Imagine making a Staff of the Archmagi, and then not being able to skill train for months (or whatever is appropriate)! Players would then think very carefully about making such an item as it has a real meaningful cost to them, and it suddenly becomes extremely valuable to them and others.
Person A goes on vacation for 10 days, but they longest duration skill they have to train is only 5 days, they just lost 5 days of training time.
Giving only 5 days/month makes it so you can't just make a huge queue and wait.
Anyway, skills are only half the advancement, you still need to fill in other badge requirements, so it's not like someone will be able to pay for 7 months queue a huge string of skills then be able to do anything productive.
I've made a suggestion that we be able to manage our skill training queues outside of the game, via the facebook type interface that Ryan mentioned. Therefore if we go away on holiday, we can keep things running as long as we can access the internet somewhere. That said I've never played EVE, so your suggestions may make more sense than mine.
*Poster appear on various noticeboards and nailed to signposts near crossroads*
Posters:
The Community of Shadow-Haven
Tired of being persecuted for your beliefs or practices?
Then the community of Shadow-Haven is the place for you. Shadow-Haven is a boutique community of scholars, artisans, merchants, and spiritualists, where adventurous souls can safely expand the boundaries of our understanding of the multiverse. Come to Shadow-Haven and be part a like-minded community that promotes tolerance and understanding.
Curious about necromancy?
Then come to Shadow-Haven to learn the best techniques for creating your undead minions or inquire with our workforce management experts who can provide a tailored cost-effective solution for your individual business requirements.
Want to learn how to summon extra-planar beings to serve your every whim?
Then come to Shadow-Haven to master the correct methods for bindings these pesky creatures to your will.
Sick and tired of worshiping your deity in dingy caves and damp cellars?
Then come to Shadow-Haven where you can practice the worship of your misunderstood deity without fear or repercussions.
In need of specimens for your experiments?
Then come to Shadow-Haven and meet our friendly understanding merchants who’re eager to obtain whatever you need for a competitive price.
Eager to expedite your inheritance or job promotion?
Then come to Shadow-Haven where our sympathetic alchemists and herbalists can provide you with the tools to take charge of your life. Alternatively seek out our insurance brokers who can arrange for a suitable accident to befall the wrongful party.
Sick of being attacked on sight, because of your racial heritage?
Then come to Shadow-Haven where the exotic and unusual is embraced and valued.
Tired after a hard days work on the roads, or in need of a place to sell your second hand goods?Then come to Shadow-Haven to quench your thirst, rest your weary feet and speak to our friendly merchants who specialise in second-hand merchandise.
Shadow-Haven, where pick fork wielding mobs, are a thing of the past. All enquiries to be made at The Black Cauldron Inn.
Details:
The Community of Shadow-Haven Alignment Neutral Evil
Prohibited Faiths None
Prohibited Races None
Ruling Body Council
Laws
1. Don’t be a jerk
2. Contribute to the advancement of the community
Tired of playing a crusading do-gooder or in need of the opportunity to unwind?
Then Shadow-Haven is the place for you. Create an alt (or a main) and join the Community of Shadow-Haven. As long as your character is contributing to the advancement of the community (i.e. training in useful skills that will help the community grow and develop) then the alt that you’re using to spy on us is welcome. Just remember what goes around comes around, so expect us to be spying on you in return.
Shadow-Haven is an experiment to gauge whether it’s possible to create a viable evil-aligned community in PFO from day 1. Shadow-Haven will begin first as an Inn (The Black Cauldron) that will cater to bandits, cultist, assassins, necromancers and other ne’er-do-wells. After all, everyone needs a place to eat, drink, do business and relax. When enough resources have been gathered then a Tower to Higher learning will be built, and eventually a fort then a settlement.
Goals
Promote a tolerant environment where forbidden lore can be studied and advanced.
Provide a place for assassins, bandits, black market merchants, alchemists, herbalists and spellcasters to meet and sell their goods and services.
Provide a tolerant community which allows the worship (not necessarily the practice) of all faiths without prejudice.
Initially I was of two minds about this second kickstarter, initially I wasn’t pleased at the thought at the thought of shelling out even more money for the game. Then reality hit me and I did a few calculation for what I paid to play SWTOR, and what I’m currently continuing to pay. Suddenly I realised that the $100 Us dollar pledge isn’t such a bad deal. A digital copy of the game, plus a three month subscription, plus early entry, plus some extra goodies! I’ve already spent far in excess of that on a game that I find less than thrilling. So I very quickly pledged the $100 and now I’m feeling rather pleased with myself.
It would be amazing if you could tweak skill training and queing in the PFO FB system. Especially if you can access it outside of the game via a PC or even an app for smartphones. It would also be great if we could design a template for skill training that could be shared. That way if someone has worked out an awesome crafting skill set, it could be shared with others. This would especially be good for newer players.
Goblin Squad Member
