Proud Grognard's page

Wow you guys are fast! I intended to check the thread last night, but came home very late. And look what I missed!

As for connections: I am all for Agia having a connection with Antar Es. May I offer a suggestion? Antar spent some longth months getting to know his abilities. It stands to reason he would search a nano to ask things. Perhaps he met Agia that way, because she had a reputation as another newcomer in the city. They have a working relationship.

If Synergy agrees, this is how Agia knows of Antar 's secret: That a well placed blow to the base of his spine will render Antar Es almost helpless for some time.

Now, on to moving things around.

So just like I like fast-paced games, I also like fast-paced recruitments.

So unless someone speaks up and tells me they need more time, I will close recruitment this Thursday at 8:00 pm EST (roughly 72 more hours).

We can then finalize those PCs selected (cyphers, connections, etc.) and get started sooner than anticipated.

I plan on sending out the first turn this Friday.

Questions?

Game on!

No problem on my end! Antar Es is coming along nicely and he will be ready by then. Backstory and appearance have been tweeked a bit already.

As for the PbP+Numenera thing: While I am quite experienced in PbP, this will be my first time in the Paizo boards and a first time for Numenera. So, I am not sure if there us a dice roller or something in these boards or how things work. But, if selected, I will find out soon enough.

You are the GM, whatever you say goes! So for dmg 5 Antar Es would have to roll a 12 (since he has a toolkit). Sure, why not?

Could he try and repair partial damage to lower the difficulty? Say only 3 out of 5, with a TN of 9? And then try the next two next time?

And it goes without saying that 'Repair' will be one of the first skills he is going to train. After all, his 2nd tier focus ability is about interfacing with machines, so it will come in handy.

I saw that my previous post was a bit incoherent, mainly because my two year old daughter was also trying to write at teh keyboard.

What I meant to say, is that most go for 'It is like First aid, only with tools', as shown here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/numenera/comments/3w9r09/fuses_flesh_with_steel_re pairshealing/

Your call, of course.

All good questions, Fabian. This is why I said the sheet is a draft!

Also, may I ask how you plan to play the 'repair' part of the Fuses Flesh and Steel aspect? I ask because he is a glaive and he is going to get hurt a lot. Most GMs I have asked range from "After one day of rest, you have repaired yourself" to ''it is like healing, but no recovery used" "it is a damagex3 check but you are trained and have an enabler with the toolkit and it takes the same amount of time".

How will you run it?

Sorry but still not good. It says, Sorry, the file you have requested does not exist. :(

For the love of Gygax!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15MJ5c0wDuWbtCuBsz7skxeeZIPCCek1pnEXcwKb 7nPQ/edit

http://tinyurl.com/jrrsu9y

https://goo.gl/tbriWh

Ryan Doherty 446 wrote:

I would be interested as well, I have ran more than a hand full of Numenera games myself and look forward to the opportunity to play a game myself.

I'll have to dig out my character sheet, but off memory I believe he was a Doomed Glaive that Howls at the Moon. I have altered the rules to the focus a bit in order for it to be actually playable without having to keep track of in game moon cycles. I can give more in depth description when I break the sheet out.

Hey Ryan, it sounds like you'll be able to help me out when I make a mistake in the rules. :)

I look forward to reading about your PC as well.

FYI, I've linked a character sheet to be used later for selected players; it helps to keep all the PC sheets in one format. However, everyone is welcome to use it now if you wish.

Game on!

*Grumple grumple* https://docs.google.com/document/d/15MJ5c0wDuWbtCuBsz7skxeeZIPCCek1pnEXcwKb 7nPQ/edit

Hey Fabian!

I am very interested in a Numenera game and have been looking for a PbP game for some time. So, I would like to apply, with my Antar Es, the Graceful Glaive who Fuses Flesh and Steel (http://tinyurl.com/jrrsu9yt ,very rough draft still)

More polish to come!

Well I came into this thread expecting the ability to eat babies to gain power and I was sorely disappointed.

I call false advertising.

Well, if it happens to be an Irish monk...

Quintessentially Me:
Thanks for the comments. I see why FoB being a standard action seems too much. However, I still believe that it is not, because by itself, it does not provide the monk with the ability to do that much. The monk has to either move and attack (thereby staying near his opponent) or be near, attack and then move. His iterative attacks are NOT covered by this change. If he wants to use them, he has to do a full attack.
If however he gets to do a TWF attack in a standard action, he has something unique that defines him.

As for the one level dip, I see the problem. However, I would like to find a solution that does not involve penalizing at the first levels, when they are weakest. I think it is hard to be abused as it it, when it is stated that it is useful only for unarmed combat and monk weapons.

Dabbler: More or less the same can be said. I want the monk to have something unique, combat wise. I think that the combination of TWF as a standard action with maneuver ability is just OK. And it is OK to err in the side of exaggeration here, by making slightly more powerful rather than less.

In any case, I also believe the fighters need a rehaul, and the monk is on par with that power level.

Greetings dear co-forumites,

I am not a monk savant by any stretch of imagination. I know that there have been a billion threads about the (non)usefulness of monks. I also know that there have been very sophisticated and complex fixes on the class.

For myself, however, I am a fan of simple fixes, even if they miss some of the finer points. Thus, I would like to propose some specific alterations to the class to make it more easy to compete, power-level-wise, and I would like your opinion on that.

As far as I can see, monks have two main problems (notice, I said main, not only): They have terrible MAD and their abilities tend not to synergize all that well. The following proposal wants to address this and also rectify the fact that monks seem to get irrelevant abilities at high levels. The main changes are:
1) Flurry of blows is a standard action
2) The calculate AB and damage with Dex and Wis.
3) The ki pool does more things
4) Bonus feat have been expanded and moved to appropriate levels.
5) Abilities have been tweaked a bit.

This makes the monk the maneuver master in all levels, and also the guy that hits you fast and hard and then moves away. He is also the guy (or gal) who is really tough to pin and grapple.

This also means that most archetypes need a bit of tweaking, but not much.

How do you think it fares?

New proposal

Whenever no explanation is given, it is assumed that the ability stays the same. I also wrote the following in short format, with the assumption that the reader has some familiarity with the system.

Skills, Skill points, WPs, HD, Saves : The same

1st) Zen combat, martial arts training, bonus feat, flurry of blows, stunning fist, Unarmed Attack Damage (UAD) 1d6
2nd) Bonus feat, evasion, (UAD)1d6
3rd) Fast movement +10ft, still mind, (UAD)1d6
4th) Ki pool (magic), slow fall 20 ft., (UAD)1d8, AC +1
5th) Zen acrobatics, purity of body, (UAD) 1d8
6th) Bonus feat, slow fall 30 ft., fast movement +20 ft., (UAD)1d8
7th) Wholeness of body, (UAD)1d8
8th) Improved blind fight, Slow fall 40 ft., (UAD)1d10, AC+2
9th) Improved evasion, Fast movement +30 ft, (UAD)1d10
10th)Bonus feat, slow fall 50 ft, (UAD)1d10
11th)Diamond soul,(UAD)1d10
12th)Abundant step, slow fall 60 ft., Fast movement +40 ft, AC+3, (UAD) 2d6
13th)Elemental fist, (UAD) 2d6
14th)Bonus feat, slow fall 70 ft. (UAD) 2d6
15th) Quivering palm, Fast movement+50 ft, (UAD) 2d6
16th)Ki pool (adamantine), slow fall 80 ft., AC +4, (UAD) 2d6
17th)Timeless body, Greater blind fight, (UAD) 2d8
18th)Bonus feat, slow fall 90 ft., Fast movement+60 ft, (UAD) 2d8,
19th)Empty body, (UAD) 2d8
20th)Perfect self, slow fall any distance, AC +5, (UAD) 2d10

Zen Combat (Ex)
The monk is trained to use his opponent's force against him and to act at the exact appropriate time necessary. The monk uses his Dex mod instead of his Str mod to calculate his AB and his Wis mod instead of his Str mod to calculate damage, for all monk weapons, unarmed combat (including flurry of blows) and CMB.

Martial arts training (Ex)
Due to intensive training, the monk 's BAB is equal to a fighter 's, for the purpose of calculating his CMB and his flurry of blows AB only.

Flurry of blows (Ex)
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a standard action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon. Both attacks take a -2 penalty to hit. As said earlier, for the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus. Flurry of blows can be also used in any case that a single attack is specified in a feat or ability 's description (Spring Attack etc) and for the maneuvers disarm, sunder and trip.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows. The first two attacks are at-2 penalty and the third at -7.
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows. The first two attacks are at-2 penalty, the third at -7 and the fourth at -10.
A monk applies his full Wis bonus (see Zen Combat) to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.

Bonus feats (Ex)
At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list:

Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Drag, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Improved Reposition, Improved Sunder, Scorpion Style, Mobility, Stand Still and Throw Anything.

At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list:

Gorgon's Fist, Greater Disarm, Greater Drag, Greater Feint, Greater Grapple, Greater Reposition, Greater Sunder, Greater Trip, Sidestep, Spring Attack, Combat Patrol, Landing Roll, Passing Trick, Steady engagement.

At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list:

Improved Critical, Medusa's Wrath, Snatch Arrows, Improved sidestep, Whirlwind attack.

At 14th level, the following are added: Cockatrice strike .

For the purpose of qualifying for feats, the monk is considered to have all prerequisite feats of the bonus feat he chooses.

Slow fall (Ex)
At 4th level or higher, a monk takes damage from a fall as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is (notice the absence of walls here!). The monk's ability improves with his monk level until, at 20th level, he can fall from any distance without harm.

Ki pool (Su)
At 4th level, a monk gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in a monk's ki pool is equal to 1/2 his monk level + his Wisdom modifier. As long as he has at least 1 point in his ki pool, he can make a ki strike. Ki strike improves with the character's monk level.

At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. His hands and feet can also be enchanted as weapons. This usually takes the form of magical tattoos.
At 7th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as cold iron and silver weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can do one of the following:

Make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack.
Increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round.
Give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Add his Wis mod to his SR, if he has any.
Add +2 to any skill roll that is based on Dex, Str or Con, for a minute.
Forfeit any of his extra attacks to do an extra die of damage in one of his main attacks, as if using the Vital Strike feat, for one minute. For anyone attack he forfeits, he adds one die to one of his main attacks (not all of them).
Add 1 plus 1 for every five levels he has, to his attack and damage rolls for a minute. (5th level)
Add +2 to his CMB for 1 round per level. (6th level)
Add +2 to his AC for 1 round per level. (7th level)

By spending 2 point from his ki pool, a monk can do one of the following

Make an additional Stunning Fist attack (5th level)
Change the saving throw needed to resist his Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm attacks from Fort to Will. (9th level)
Make an additional Quivering Palm attack. (15th level)
Make an additional Elemental Fist attack. (13th level)
Add his level to all his attack rolls for the next round. ( 8th level)

Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.

Zen acrobatics (Ex)
At 5th level, a monk adds his level to all Acrobatics checks (not only jumps). In addition, he always counts as having a running start when making jump checks using Acrobatics. By spending 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action, a monk gains a +20 bonus on Acrobatics checks for 1 round.

Wholeness of Body (Su)
At 7th level or higher, a monk can heal his own wounds as a standard action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice his monk level by using 2 points from his ki pool. Also, if he spends a whole day meditating and if he has at least one ki point, he or she doubles the recovery rate of hit points and ability damage.
The monk also gains immunity to all poisons.
(This has been merged with Diamond Body and expanded a bit)

Diamond Soul (Ex)
At 11th level, a monk gains spell resistance equal to his current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk's spell resistance. The monk can lower his SR as an immediate action.

Elemental fist (Su)
At 13 level, a monk picks one of the following energy types: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. On a successful hit, the attack deals damage normally plus 1d6 points of damage of the chosen type. The monk must declare that he is using this feat before he makes the attack roll (thus a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). He may attempt an Elemental Fist attack once per day for every four levels he has attained , and no more than once per round.

Special: A monk who had picked Elemental Fist as a feat earlier, can attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk. In that case, at level 13, the damage of Elemental Fist becomes 2d6.

Quivering Palm (Su)
Starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. He can use this quivering palm attack once per day plus once more per day at levels 16th, 18th and 20th. He must announce his intent before making his attack roll. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter, the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to his monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + the monk's Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time. A monk can 1 quivering palm in effect at levels 16th, 18th and 20th.

I see the logic on that. But I also see the logic that the mass of the weapon itself counts. By RAW it is not unambigious. This is why I asked.

Recently I have been toying with a Thunder and Fang build and I came across this question:

Thunder and fang says that : "You can use an earth breaker as though it were a one-handed weapon"

Power attack says: "You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls"

So, when the Earth Breaker is used in thunder and Fang style, does it gain the +50% increased damage or not? It seems to me that since it still is a 2H weapon used as though it is one handed, it should. But I also believe that this is going against the spirit of the rules.

What is your opinion?

I am afraid that I have to bow out of the selection process. Thank you for taking the time Haldin and I hope that I can sit in your table another time.

All best to all!

I would also like to submit my half orc ranger Asdoukar. His role will be the skill specialist (Stealth, DD etc). In its current reiteration, he is at 5th level, but I will level him accordingly in the near future. Crunch also almost ready.

Asdoukar

When is the final cut to be made?

Dear co-forumites,

I have a PC that I would dearly like to try out in a PF game. He is a half orc ranger who makes liberal use of archetypes and variant racial abilities. More or less, he is an animistic wilderness specialist, not a nature warden, with a penchant for archery and a spiritual connection to his ancestors. The question is:

Is anybody interested in running a PF campaign where I could try him out? He is currently made in 20 point buy at third level, but I would be more that happy to adjust his stats.

Here is a link to his sheet: Asdoukar.

So, how about it?

After the feedback here and in other forums, I propose the following, all in all

BAB, Weapon and armor proficiencies, HD, Saves : Unchanged (but see Grind the teeth below).

Skills: 4 per level. Skill selection unchanged (however see Initial training below).

1st) Bonus feat, Initial training, Skill and hard work
2nd) Bonus feat, Weapon aptitude, Grind the teeth
3rd) Armor training
4th) Bonus feat
5th) Weapon training, Heroics
6th) Bonus feat, Feat mastery
7th) Armor training
8th) Bonus feat
9th) Weapon training, Heroics
10th)Bonus feat
11th)Armor training
12th)Bonus feat
13th)Weapon training, Heroics
14th)Bonus feat
15th)Armor training
16th)Bonus feat
17th)Weapon training, Heroics
18th)Bonus feat
19th)Armor mastery
20th)Bonus feat, Weapon mastery, Got you now, Heroics

Initial training (Ex): The fighter selects one of the skillsets below. These skills become class skills. He treats the associate ability score for these skills as 12, if it it isn't 12 or higher already. This becomes 14 at 6th level, 16 at 10th level and 18 at 15th level. If the skill is one that he already has in his skill list, he gains a +1 competence bonus to it, plus +1 in each level divisible by 5 (5, 10, 15, 20).

Guard: Knowledge(Local), Perception,Intimidation
Inspector: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense motive
Wilderness warrior: Knowledge (Nature), Survival,Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
Mounted warrior: Ride, Handle animal, Knowledge (Nature)
Knight: Knowledge (Nobility), Diplomacy, Knowledge (Engineering)
Thug: Stealth, Climb, Acrobatics
Temple protector: Knowledge (Nobility), Knowledge (Religion), Spellcraft
Collegiate guard: Knowledge (Arcane), Spellcraft, Knowledge (Planes)
Mercenary: Diplomacy, Sense motive, Nobility
Caravan guard: Handle Animal, Perception, Appraise
Sailor : Climb, Geography, Swim, Acrobatics

Skill and hard work (Ex): The fighter can ignore the ability requirements when he selects a feat as his fighter bonus feats, if the ability in question is 10 or more.

(Note that the feat in question must be taken with fighter bonus feats. No one class dipping).

Weapon aptitude (Ex): As a full round action that does not provoke an AoO, the fighter can change the weapon specified in his feats (weapon focus, improved critical, etc).

Grind the teeth (Ex): A number of times equal to the fighter's Con mod + 1 per 3 levels (3rd,6th,9th,12th etc), the fighter can substitute his Will or Ref save with a Fort save. This must be decided before the roll is made.

Heroics (Ex): The fighter learns to perform extraordinary acts of heroism. He learns one at 5th level and one more at levels 9th, 13th, 17th and 20th. Every time he is eligible to learn a new heroic, he can also replace the ones he already knows with others from the list.

Harassment: A fighter targets a single foe which he is capable of attacking,with a standard attack. The target of the harasment takes a -2 modifier to all his attacks that do not target the the fighter, as long as the fighter spents at least an action attacking him. The penalty becomes -3 if the fighter is 10th level, -4 if 15th etc. If the fighter wants to change the target of his harrasment, he must take a move action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity to reposition himself.

Burst of speed: A fighter can increase his speed by 20ft for a number of minutes equal to half his level each day. These must be spent in 1 minute increments.

Put your back into it: As a swift action, a number of times per day equal to his Con modifier plus 1/4 levels, the fighter can add half his level to a Str, Dex or Con based skill checks.

Just a flesh wound: Once per day, the fighter can take a swift action to assess the damage done to him and convert a number of hit points equal to his Constitution modifier*level to nonlethal damage.

Break through: Once per day per 5 fighter levels, the fighter can ignore spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural defenses and effects that grant protection when engaged in combat with an opponent. This applies only to spells and spellike abilities that grant AC, partial cover and displacement bonuses, not to invisibility or mirror image spells. The fighter declares his intention against a specific target as a swift action.The first successful attack acts as a targeted dispel, which does not actually dispel the active effects but instead allows the fighter to ignore it for the remainder of the encounter. The CL is the fighter's level.

Ignore impediment: Once per day per 5 fighter levels, the fighter can, as a move action, ignore any and all impediments to his movement, as per the freedom of movement spell, for 1 minute.

Combat mobility: Once per day per 5 fighter levels, the fighter can, as an immediate action, take an additional move action as part of his turn. This action can only be used for movement.

Overextending: Once per day per 5 fighter levels, the fighter can, as a move action, extend his reach 5 feet for the duration of an encounter.

Surprise Shift: A number of times equal to his Constitution modifier the fighter can move 5 feet as a swift action. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity and does not count as a 5-foot step.

Team leader: The fighter’s allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the fighter, as long as fighter takes a swift action each turn to coordinate them. Her allies do receive the bonuses from these feats regardless if they actually possess the feats themselves, but only as regarding the fighter. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the listed effects to take place.

(The above means that the paladin makes a shield wall with the fighter, but not with the barbarian, even if the barbarian does have the team feat in question).

Maneuver mastery: When a fighter successfully completes a maneuver, such as trip, sunder, disarm etc, he can opt to do damage equal to the weapon's base damage + half his strength mod.

False security: Once per encounter, the fighter can, as an immediate action, attack an enemy who has successfully struck her in melee. This attack is assumed to happen after the successful attack, so she cannot use this ability if the attack would put her below 0 hit points, nor does dropping her enemy below 0 hit points prevent the attack from hitting. A fighter must be at least 9th level to select this heroic.

Trade Blows: When a fighter uses the total defense action, she may make a melee attack at her normal attack bonus on anyone that makes a melee attack against her, regardless of whether the opponent's attack hits. This attack is resolved immediately after the opponent's attack. The fighter may make one such attack for each attack made against her. If multiple opponents attack the fighter, each attack she makes must be against the enemy that triggered it. All such attacks are made with a -4 penalty on the attack roll, and are an exception to the rule that you cannot attack during the total defense action.

Hamstring: As a standard action, the fighter may make a single melee attack against a single creature. If she hits, instead of dealing damage,the creature is rendered unable to move for a number of rounds equal to the fighter's Strength modifier (minimum 1). The target is not paralyzed and is able to defend himself normally. A successful Fortitude save against 10 +the fighter level negates the effect.

Feat mastery (Ex): If the fighter has a combat feat that has an improved or greater version, he automatically gets the improved and greater versions in the levels he would be eligible for them. He must still meet the requirements for the improved and greater versions of the feat (but see Skill and hard work). In order for the ability to function, the character must have fighter levels equal to the BAB required by the greater or improved version.

Armor mastery: The DR given by the ability is DR/10.

Got you now (Ex): Once per day, the fighter can use his chosen weapon to make a touch attack (ranged or melee) as a standard attack. If it hits, it is a considered a confirmed critical. The ability is not expended if the attack misses.

Some additional ideas, adapted from the soulknife

Combat Slide: Upon successfully striking an enemy in melee, the soulknife may immediately make a 5-foot step (even if she's already moved in the round, but not if she's taken a 5-foot step). In addition, when someone misses the fighter with a melee attack, she may spend an immediate action to take a 5-foot step.

Maneuver mastery: When a fighter successfully completes a maneuver, such as trip, sunder, disarm etc, he can opt to do damage equal to the weapon's base damage + half his strength mod.

Caught unaware: Once per encounter, the fighter can, as an immediate action, attack an enemy who has successfully struck her in melee. This attack is assumed to happen after the successful attack, so she cannot use this ability if the attack would put her below 0 hit points, nor does dropping her enemy below 0 hit points prevent the attack from hitting. A fighter must be at least 9th level to select this heroic.

Trade Blows: When a fighter uses the total defense action, she may make a melee attack at her normal attack bonus on anyone that makes a melee attack against her, regardless of whether the opponent's attack hits. This attack is resolved immediately after the opponent's attack. The fighter may make one such attack for each attack made against her. If multiple opponents attack the fighter, each attack she makes must be against the enemy that triggered it. All such attacks are made with a -4 penalty on the attack roll, and are an exception to the rule that you cannot attack during the total defense action.

Hamstring: As a standard action, the fighter may make a single melee attack against a single creature. If she hits, instead of dealing damage,the creature's ability is rendered unable to move for a number of rounds equal to the fighter's Strength modifier (minimum 1). A successful Fortitude save against 10 +the fighter level negates the effect.

I really dislike how this encourages dumping stats.

I disagree that a fighter is at all out classed at levels 1-9 (waiting for PF experience beyond that before deciding but it is possible since the spells get so awesome).

My only wish is that fighters got to pick 2 additional class skills and maybe one of them gets a free rank every level. Oh and bravery sucks maybe something more interesting like a bonus vs emotion descriptors.

Traits help a ton with the skill issue.

Sounds like you want a samurai, they have resolve.

How this encourages dumping stats? The fighter still needs Str, Dex, and Con. The whole point is that he shouldn't also need Int or Cha to be able to do something more. Your suggestion is almost equivalent with what I say here, only more cumbersome, IMHO.

But as I said, if you don't agree that the fighter needs anything, that is fine. This is a suggestion for those who agree.

Finally, I am not looking for anything, beyond giving the fighter a boost in specific areas where the class is being unnecessary and implicitly handicapped. This is not an archetype or a 'How to build X" but rather a proposal in addressing specific deficiencies.

Sorry, hasty reply. It should have been:

"@Hubris:

Thanks for the good words. Initial training says that the ability associated with the skill (Cha for Diplomacy, for example) is treated as being 12 for the purposes of the skill only. In most cases, that means a +1 to the skill in question, and later on +2 and +3. That is about it.

@ Diskordant:

The image you describe is exactly what I was aiming. The fighter overcomes the damage through grit and stamina. This is why Fort substitutes Will and Ref. In my mind, the save that says "shrugging it off" is the Fort save.

Since most energy attacks require either a Ref or a Fort save, a bonus to these saves also means a situation like the one you just described. The fighter curls up, he grits his teeth at the flames, and gets up singed but not hurt to deliver sharp (or blunt) retribution."

@Hubris:

Thanks for the good words. Initial training says that the ability associated with the skill (Cha for Diplomacy, for example) is treated as being 12 for the purposes of the skill only. In most cases, that means a +1 to the skill in question.

@ Diskordant:

The image you describe is exactly what I was aiming. The fact shrugs the damage. This is why Fort substitutes Will and Ref (the shrugging it off save par excellence).

The energy resistance you describe is indeed covered by the save. Most of these spells have saves (Ref usually). When the fighter makes it, this is what happens.

Well, heroics is not easy to come by. Once in a while, the fighter pushes his body and will to do things at the very edge of the possible. He puts everything he has into that one mad sprint, hammers at the magical shield so hard that his sword almost whines and so on.

In the same vain, the Got you now in the game world is the one transcendental stroke, where the best swordsman in the land melds his mind and body into one. He can't push his body to do stuff like that all the time and it is only possible because of his almost supernatural ability with his weapon.

Bear in mind that, for example, the Barbarian by then has learned to rage all the time, his body a constant source of stamina. And vice versa, the 20th level ranger can only make one 'save or die' shot.

As capstone abilities, the once per day abilities are actually not all that uncommon.

Well, I am still ambivalent myself about whether Grind the teeth should go and just have good saves all around.

As per the heroics, I see what you mean, but these are more mobility and battlefield control, more like glorified feats. If someone doesn't like them, he doesn't use them.

As per the autokill thing, well it is not an autokill, really. It will just deliver a massive amount of damage to a single target, once. The fighter at that level very often crits anyway. You must compare it with other capstone abilities, like 9th level spells, the fort or die of the ranger, the at-will wildshape, the alchemist's grand discovery and the inquisitor's true judgement.

Nikos, thanks for the feedback.

Well, the perception thing I understand, but very few classes get it. It can be had with traits and also with some of the skillsets. Also note that the initial training skillsets are not meant to be the ultimate and complete list, just suggestions.

Skill and hard work: I see your point. I think what you propose is too harsh, though. Perhaps 1+1/3 levels? But do you find it generally unbalanced? It just makes the fighter the true master of the combat feats and removes some of the MAD that sometimes crops up.

Weapon aptitude was lifted from the Tome of Battle. The designer, I think, was the one later suggested that it should be transferred to the fighter. I don't think it will make much of a difference really. In the rare cases that the fighter needs a bludgeoning weapon, he will just be as good with it as with his sword, and that's that.

Grind the teeth: I think I disagree here. Initially, I was thinking that the fighter should just have straight good saves in everything. He is supposed to be tough and he was tough in all previous DnD editions. in 3.5 and PF, he lost that, without gaining anything. I think this levels the field with the other melee classes, without becoming too much.

Heroics: I tried to follow the mechanics of the spelless ranger and paladin. These mimic abilities that the fighter should have but usually relies on spells to get, albeit in more watered down versions. This is why I didn't want to make them more numerous. But you don't like them on the principle of being once per day or specifically on what they do?

Got you know: Well, a potential autokill of one enemy per day as a capstone ability of a whole class that is based on killing things is not that bad, is it? But at level 20, fighters hit most of the time anyway and confirm criticals very very often. Do you feel it is overpowered? I mean, as the other half of a capstone ability?

Of course, it could be modified to 'an attack with +4 to hit and +4 to confirm the critical', but this is a bit unheroic. Compared to a paladin at level 20, the neverending raging barbarian, not to mention the inquisitor or the alchemist.

I fully agree with you about the immersion issue. Though I like the idea of the fighter skillfully guiding his opponent to himself. Any ideas about how to accomplish it?

The Last Stand proposal I really like, thematically. Is it, in your opinion, more powerful or less than just changing the Flesh wound into a standard action? Is it then to close to the paladin's self healing? The hp to nonlethal damage I felt did not make the damage inconsequential, but was also thematically nice.

I would like to hear some more opinions. Also, other than the above, what is your opinion on the whole thing?

About Grind the teeth: The fighter can become reasonably good at many things. The thing is that he gets shoehorned after that. As I said before, there is no reason for his bad saves. And there is no reason why he should sink two feat to have them

Decoy: Well, the reasoning of antagonize is the same more or less of demoralize. The effect itself is based on a watered down first level paladin spell, so I don't think it is overpowered.

Break through: i think you are right about that. I need to find a way to clarify the wording. It is not about invisibility or mirror image, but rather about shield and barkskin, for example. Though a case could be made that the requisite successful attack makes it much more sensible.

Just a flesh wound: There seems to be a consensus that healing is best being done after the battle, unless someone is about to drop. However, I could see this being a standard action, for example. I would like to hear some more opinions.

Ignore impediment: The idea on that was again to base it in a a watered down spell. As you say, 1 minute is what most battles take, so it could be made to last that long. However, perhaps an increase in times per day would be called for? Or not?

Solo Tactics is indeed borrowed from Inquisitor, but I don;t think this is his signature ability. Moreover, the Inquisitor also has bonus teamwork feats he can change instantly and I think the ability combo is what makes the difference.

How is Armor Mastery stolen? It is a fighter ability!

Got you now, you must remember, is a capstone ability that can be used once per day. It is there to balance the rather underwhelming capstone ability of the fighter. It is, I think, nice and cinematic, to decapitate the dragon in one swing or do something similar. By 20th level, there are better ways to stun someone, after all.

It seems that PF and 3.5 operate under the assumption that Perception ruins the Stealth characters, so they restrict it. But there are always traits that give it and you will notice that you can get it through Initial Training.

Endless are the discussions among the Wise on why, and how, a fighter has been rendered a useless class to play. This is not a thread about this subject. I want to propose a reworking of the fighter, based on specific presuppositions which I take for granted. I will explain which are these presuppositions and I will try to justify why I believe the changes I propose address them directly and indirectly. If you disagree, fine, my point is not to convince you, just to state my opinion. If you agree, then I would be very interested to hear your opinion on what I did with the class.

To my mind, the fighter in PF should try to model the great fighters of myth and literature. From Beowulf and Hercules to Conan and the Hulk, these mythic figures could jump over mountains, wrestle dragons from the sky and climb sheer cliffs that led to the palace of the gods. The PF fighter does not, I believe, make room for such kind of heroics. I would like the fighter to be able to eventually to perform feats of extraordinary prowess which border on the supernatural, without actually being magical. He should, as he levels up, be able to go from capable swordsman, to 'This is Sparta!', to besting demigods in wrestling matches.

I take as axiomatic more or less, that the goal of the game is to have fun, by playing with other people and contributing to the party. The fighter can be a very fun to be play. As a class, it does well what it was intended to does well, which is hurting enemies and withstanding their punishment. It appears however, that if a fighter wants to do things outside combat, or things inside combat other than hurting the aforementioned enemies, he faces an uphill battle (combat maneuvers excluded). This makes the fighter less versatile within a party than he could be.And it certainly breaks with many of the archetypes that it strives to emulate. On the other hand, it is important that each class retains a niche on which it thrives. The fighter should leave room for other melee combatants within the party.

The fighter also seems strangely prone to specific attacks. While in previous DnD systems he was a juggernaut (all good saves, for example) in 3.5/PF he seems much more fragile to specific attacks. This detracts from his usefulness and has no real justification in myth and tradition.

Finally, in the magically conductive environment of PF, magic equals versatility (among other things). Paladins, rangers and magi become more useful in a greater variety of circumstances, mainly because they have access to magic. Barbarians also have abilities which make them more agile in different circumstances. Fighters, for some unexplained reason, lack these resources. But there is nothing that prohibits them from having some kind of extraordinary abilities, derived from their sheer stamina and heroic spirit. Once in a while, they could and should be able to jump 30 feet in the air through sheer strength, climb towers by plunging daggers in the walls or break through magical shields by the strength of their arm. These, after all, were the accomplishments which made them special in the stories that inspired us to play them.

To address these issues, I propose the following changes

BAB, Weapon and armor proficiencies, HD, Saves : Unchanged.

Skills: 4 per level. Skill selection unchanged, however see Initial training below.
(I don't think that takes away from the skill monkeys. Also, other fighting classes seem to be doing fine with 4 skillpoints per level. I don't see why fighters can't have broader horizons)

1st) Bonus feat, Initial training, Skill and hard work
2nd) Bonus feat, Weapon aptitude, Grind the teeth
3rd) Armor training
4th) Bonus feat
5th) Weapon training, Heroics
6th) Bonus feat
7th) Armor training
8th) Bonus feat
9th) Weapon training, Heroics
10th)Bonus feat
11th)Armor training
12th)Bonus feat
13th)Weapon training, Heroics
14th)Bonus feat
15th)Armor training
16th)Bonus feat
17th)Weapon training, Heroics
18th)Bonus feat
19th)Armor mastery
20th)Bonus feat, Weapon mastery, Got you now, Heroics

Initial training (Ex): The fighter selects one of the skillsets below. These skills become class skills. He treats the associate ability score for these skills as 12,if it it isn't 12 or higher already. This becomes 14 at 6th level, 16 at 10th level and 18 at 15th level. If the skill is one that he already has in his skill list, he gains a +1 competence bonus to it, plus +1 every five levels (5, 10, 15,20).

Guard: Knowledge(Local), Perception,Intimidation
Inspector: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense motive
Wilderness warrior: Knowledge (Nature), Survival, Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
Mounted warrior: Ride, Handle animal, Knowledge (Nature)
Knight: Knowledge (Nobility), Diplomacy, Knowledge (Engineering)
Thug: Stealth, Climb, Acrobatics
Temple protector: Knowledge (Nobility), Knowledge (Religion), Spellcraft
Collegiate guard: Knowledge (Arcane), Spellcraft, Knowledge (Planes)
Mercenary: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Nobility
Caravan guard: Handle Animal, Perception, Appraise
Sailor: Climb, Acrobatics, Swim

(This is intended to make the fighter more versatile in out of combat situations. He or she will never be as good as a bard in Diplomacy, for example, but he or she will be able to make a secondary face without having MAD)

Skill and hard work(Ex): The fighter can ignore the ability requirements when he selects a feat as his fighter bonus feats, if the ability in question is 10 or more.

(While I liked the idea behind the ability requirements for feats, I find that in the end they just seem to penalize the fighter by making an one trick pony. This, I believe, will enable him to do more things better, such as battlefield control, by taking multiple feat chains).

Weapon aptitude (Ex): As a full round action that does not provoke an AoO, the fighter can change the weapon specified in his feats (weapon focus, improved critical, etc).
(The fighter is the weapon master after all.)

Grind the teeth (Ex): A number of times equal to the fighter's Con mod + 1 per 3 levels (3rd,6th,9th,12th etc), the fighter can substitute his Will or Ref save with a Fort save. This must be decided before the roll is made.
(This is a step back to AD&D. It reflects the fact that fighters are tough. They persevere through grit and they have the scars to prove it. Note that the paladin still remains the save juggernaut, but the fighter is a close second.)

Heroics (Ex): The fighter learns to perform extraordinary acts of heroism. He learns one at 5th level and one more at levels 9th, 13th, 17th and 20th. Every time he is eligible to learn a new heroic, he can also replace the ones he already knows with others from the list.

Decoy: Once per day per 5 fighter levels (5th, 10th etc), a fighter provokes a foe to attack him to exclusion of all others, as a standard action. He does so by appearing to leave guards unguarded, being staggered and so on. The target of the attack must make a Will save against 10+ fighter level or engage the fighter at the best of his ability (ranged attacks, spells, melee etc).

Burst of speed: Once per day per 4 levels as a standard action, the fighter can increase his speed by 20ft for a number of minutes equal to half his level.

Put your back into it: As a swift action, a number of times per day equal to his Con modifier plus 1/4 levels, the fighter can add half his level to a Str, Dex or Con based skill.

Just a flesh wound: Once per day, the fighter can take a minute to assess the damage done to him and convert a number of hit points equal to his Constitution modifier*level to nonlethal damage.

Break through: Once per day per 5 fighter levels, the fighter can ignore spells,spell-like abilities and supernatural defenses and effects that grant protection when engaged in combat with an opponent. The first successful attack acts as a targeted dispel, which does not actually dispel the active effects but instead allows the fighter to ignore it for the remainder of the encounter. The CL is the fighter's level.

Ignore impediment: Once per day per 5 fighter levels, the fighter can as a standard action, ignore any and all impediments to his movement, as per the freedom of movement spell, for a duration of 1 minutes per level.

Combat mobility: Once per day per 5 fighter levels, the fighter can, as an immediate action, take an additional move action as part of his turn.

Overextending: Once per day per 5 fighter levels, the fighter can, as a move action, extend his reach 5 feet for the duration of an encounter.

Surprise Shift: Once per day per 4 fighter levels, the fighter can move 5 feet as a swift action. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity and does not count as a 5-foot step.

Solo Tactics: The fighter’s allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the fighter for the purpose of determining whether the fighter receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the fighter to receive the listed bonus.

(These are the extraordinary abilities I was talking about. They are weaker than spells, but useful nevertheless.)

Armor mastery: The DR given by the ability is DR/10.

Got you now (Ex): Once per day, the fighter can use his chosen weapon to make a touch attack (ranged or melee) as a standard attack. If it hits, it is a considered a confirmed critical. The ability is not expended if the attack misses.

So what do you think? Is that a more versatile fighter? I eagerly await your thoughts!.

My opinion would be to tweak some classes a little more. Fighter needs some more love for example, wither through feat chains or through abilities that enable movement.