(Does the WBL assign specific items? I'm not normally used to using it in building PCs - here's what Mark listed...)
Marks Original equipment:
WBL means chain shirt +2, heavy steel shield +1, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of dex +2, Finesse weapon +1 of shock, cloak of resistance +1, ring of protection +1
My suggestions for equipment:
(Full Plate +2, Tower shield +2, belt of STR +2, Bastard Sword +1, cloak of resistance +2) and I may be short in equipment here? so maybe a +1 Ring?
SO - Armor +11, Shield +6, Dex +1, Dodge +1, Shield Focus +1, Combat Expertise +2?
The Base Build is +12 to hit (I think) and AC of 32? wow... guess I loose out... I didn't realize fighting defensively would push up the AC that much...
Sorry Mark, clearly I was wrong...
Here's from Marks build notes... Take 3 of your 21 skill ranks in Acrobatics; maybe 6 if you think you can spare it. Even at 3 ranks, when fighting defensively, you've got +8 to hit and AC 33. ....
(side note - I don't think chakram is a Core weapon.)
LOL Mark - I didn't mean it snarky or anything like that - your build is a better all around fighter. and would have a better Touch AC (and better INIT, and better to hits with missile weapons and...) yeah, like I said - I personally would rather run the DEX fighter myself.
But for AC? yeah, Plate is just slightly better. (IMHO)
Full Plate and a DEX of 12 is +10 AC
Chain Shirt and a DEX of 18 is +8 AC...
don't get me wrong, I would rather run the DEX fighter myself, but for pure AC bonus? Plate gives you 2 more AC and saves a bunch of Character Build Points...
I was expecting someone to point out Tower Shield...
Yeah, you trade off a -2 to hit but you pick up an extra +2 shield bonus...
So, Full plate armor (should be do-able by 2nd level, maybe even while still 1st) plus 1 for a Dex of 12, plus 4 for a tower shield is AC 24.
Heck, at first level you can pick up Scale armor and the tower shield with your starting money and walk into the game with an AC of 20 or more.
Then, as you can afford it and level up, start adding in magic bonuses on the armor and shield and things like rings or amulets or feats (Shield Focus?) to boost AC and by 6th level you should be able to put your AC into the low to mid 30s.
I actually went with a Halfling myself (though a Gnome would also work) to get the +1 for being small, so I had an AC in the upper 20s (27? 29?) by 3rd level.
Put a saddle on him, then put a “rider” in the saddle. Many of the monsters you encounter will go after the rider as clearly it is more dangerous of the team -
In fact, you might spend some cash to give him an Animated suit of armor as a rider, or even a zombie in full plate... anything to draw attacks away from the mount. But to start with, just a “stuffed suit” is likely to draw some attacks, and every one that goes after the dummy DOESN’T go after one of the Hero’s (which includes Fetch)
Pheromone Arrows are a good find. Since both my Animal companions have scent and my character can gain scent for himself via his Animal Focus(wolf) ability or even something like an animal mask. When it comes to a boss fight or other big bad I could easily see opening with my orc hornbow with a pheromone arrow before closing in with my butchering axe.
As for the blink dog tactic. I'm not sure that's a good use of my action economy. UMD is a class skill for me so I could use a wand of vanish. But I could only use the tactic with one of my two animal companions and I would be giving up my own attacks (Butchering Axe and Bite) to do it.
yeah, different PCs, different specializations. Clearly you are much more likely to be doing the damage than I am...
Percy is the name - Percy Footman. Rather than “adventurer” I prefer to call myself "a dog delivery system"! My mount (named "A.C.") is much better at this adventuring stuff than I am, I just keep him out of trouble and open doors for him and that sort of thing...
;)
Pathfinder Society, Silver Crusade faction - though formally Cheliax, until the Paracountesss no longer spoke for my homeland. Ah... And a member of HouseHold Servants Local 433, though I am a bit behind on the dues for that... Class wise I'm a bit of a mutt. (several martial classes, Fighter/Paladin/Cavalier/etc.).
Combat wise I really don't do much damage myself, I leave that to A.C. - I'm more of a Bodyguard and specialize more in improving the parties defenses.
The Blink Dog trick is just one of my gimmicks (Bodyguard, Mounted Combat, Mounted Shield, Tower Shield, Paladin Levels, etc.)
- if the AC has Scent ability, then these give a +2 hit and damage. (I have had a judge rule that the target has to have blood and/or sweat in order for it to work, so check for this...).
I actually use other missiles to deliver the Pheromone, so Pheromone Javelins. That way I can use my shield while "marking" the target for the AC.
Blink Dog:
Round 1: Cast a spell or Drink a Potion of invisibility
Round 2+: Delay until after your AC has attacked, then tap him with a Wand of Vanish...
Repeat each round. If you can actually cast invisibility before starting this cycle, start by casting it on yourself, from a wand or a potion even of a potion. Otherwise you might want to eventually just get a wand of Invisibility as well as the Vanish wand.)
Monsters see the AC blink in (the first swing is from invisibility, so the target is flatfooted and the attack is at +2 to hit), take a full attack and then blink out before anyone else gets an action. Cost is one 1st level wand charge each combat round. See if you can get the AC to 5' step after the Vanish... so it disappears then steps to a new location.
Everyone sees AC attack from nowhere - then vanish... "Blink Dog".
It actually doesn't "Optimizing Damage output" as much as increase protection...
Percy is the name - Percy Footman. Rather than “adventurer” I prefer to call myself "a dog delivery system"! My mount (named "A.C.") is much better at this adventuring stuff than I am, I just keep him out of trouble and open doors for him and that sort of thing...
;)
Pathfinder Society, Silver Crusade faction - though formally Cheliax, until the Paracountesss no longer spoke for my homeland. Ah... And a member of HouseHold Servants Local 433, though I am a bit behind on the dues for that... Class wise a bit of a mutt. (several martial classes).
Combat wise here's a fun gimmick with vanish from a wand, and the spell invisibility.... While AC runs into combat, I drink a potion and draw the wand. Right after ACs attack (sometimes we need to use a Delay action to set the Initiative order working right) I tap him with the wand and he vanishes. Repeat each round. AC looks a lot like a Blink Dog.
Monsters see the dog blink in (first swing is from invisibility, so the target is flatfooted and the attack is at +2 to hit), take a full attack and then blink out before anyone else gets an action. Cost is one 1st level wand charge each combat round.
Slap a saddle on Fetch, have HIM hire a gnome (or other small race) valet to provide him with a pair of hands to open doors for him... Even better if he can take Leadership himself...
Heck, if he can hire an Illusionist or Sorcerer henchman, have the henchman specialize in invisibility spells - then when combat starts, have the henchman cast invisibility as protection. The (invisible) henchman rides Fetch, and each round after he bites, uses a wand of vanish to "blink" Fetch out of sight. Monsters are going to think Fetch is a Blink Dog - appearing as he attacks (attacking from invisibility), then blinking out again.
LOL! I could see joining up as a player in your group just to play Fetch!
And if you need a bunch of fresh meat quick to feed a hungry monster...
Fun fact: a fellow player once bribed a certain otyugh in a certain sewer by feeding it a mule she was looking to get rid of anyways...
O.O
I actually did this too!
Except for me, it was a mule and a barrel of beer. And she reached up and pulled the (dead) mule thru the manhole in chunks - followed by the (now empty) barrel... while I explained to any passers by "move along - nothing to see here!"
and yes, I spent the PP to make her a "Foreign Contact"!
Here's a gimmick with vanish from a wand, and invisibility. I pull it with a couple different PCs... Stand behind/near the frontline PC and tap her with the wand right after her turn (may need to delay till right after the Melee to set the Initiative order working right). Repeat each round. If you can cast invisibility before starting this cycle, start by casting invisibility on yourself, then vanish the Melee. Works great on the party Rogue...
Monsters see the Melee/Rogue blink in (first swing is from invisibility, so the target is flatfooted and the attack is at +2 to hit), take a full attack and then blink out before anyone else gets an action. Cost is one 1st level wand charge each combat round. Heck, if you're running the Melee guy, pick up the want yourself and see if the party Bard will do this while she sings, ...
I actually have a Dog-rider that does this with potions of invisibility for PC and it looks like the monsters are fighting a Blink Dog... why is the dog wearing a saddle?
I have an Animal Companion named AC.... (pronounces "A-C" like the letters, or Accy?)
He's actually a Riding Dog - but I've put a lot of work into his Armor Class (it's well over 25... often in the 30s) and we both have the feat Body Guard... so we really boost other players AC...
I guess I'm late to this party. One question: why was this FAQ necessary?
Because enough people asked.
GM PDK wrote:
I don't understand why the devs are changing something that seemed unbroken... did someone get mad at all those huge giants walking around with mithral fullplates?
Because it's not a change. There were two interpretations. Now we know which one to use.
IIRC, it is sort of a change considering the vast majority of statted items (with very few, if any, outliers) were priced the opposite way.
several posters have pointed out published items that are done the "wrong" way - priced incorrectly (by the FAQ).
What items in published sources (prior to this FAQ) were priced CORRECTLY? so that we can have some examples of the "right way" to do this.
long ago, I had a friend with a Pally take a dip in Sorcerer. It gave him access to all the Wizard spell wands, and then for his Sorcerer spells he took Truestrike because it didn't have a "S" component (so it was unaffected by Arcane Spell Failure from his armor), and Shield ('cause he was a 2HW user). He even got the shield up a few times when we had a round or two of prep before a fight... and the Truestrike was often impressive.
I don't remember what his zero level spells were...
Scenarios go back and forth on how often Aspis dudes you meet are formal, badge-carrying members or just mercenaries. In several encounters only the boss of a team is an actual Aspis member. The Guildbreaker's bonus may not be very reliable.
but it is available, and it does what the OP was asking for right?
One class that's particularly effective for halflings is cavalier. Since their mounts are generally medium sized, they don't need any special feats to ride in dungeons and other confined spaces.
Hey! I prefer to call myself "a dog delivery system"! My mount (named "A.C.") is much better at this adventuring stuff than I am, I just keep him out of trouble and open doors for him and that sort of thing...
Ok....Given that an animal companion that can talk still needs to use tricks in combat, there would likely be some headache for some judges when players start assuming that just because their pets can talk and/or understand a language, those pets can also follow complex commands in combat.
wait... we already have that problem now! even when they DON'T have an INT > 2 and CAN'T talk.
I often see players/judges assuming the AC can do all sorts of complex things. At my local shop, persons running PCs with ACs normally just avoid playing them at my table (when I'm a player or judge) - otherwise they have to do things like create a list of "tricks" and all that...
But you know what? having an AC that can talk?! think of the Role Playing possibilities!
Judge taking (in Scuby Do voice) as a mount AC: "Does this saddle make me look fat?"
Halfling Cavalier/Druid player: "...there is no safe answer to that question..."
The Law. (Just my opinion - which I think is as good as any other). What is Lawful in one place is un-Lawful in another. And all PCs come from someplace - so you could be a Cheliaxian Paladin, or a Kellish Paladin, or heck, a Paladin from Nidal (well... maybe.) Each would view the Law differently.
Paladins of Abadar, a L/N diety would stress Law above all else... but you can easily have "the Law" on both sides of an issue.
Paladin quote - "I follow the laws of my homeland and serve in her military. That is why I am in you land, bringing Law to the barbarians." some Cheliaxian paladin during the conquest of Nidal (or one of several other countries).
Paladin quote - "I am fighting to repel the invaders from my homeland, to remove the foreign blight on my blessed Taldor!" a Paladin explaining why he is involved in the hunt for N/G Sarenrae cultists in Taldor (or fighting the Qadirian invaders in the last big war).
Paladin quote - "I am here to protect those who have seen the light of the Dawnflower among the heathen masses in the shadowed land of Taldor. This is holy work sanctioned by my government, my church, and my god." a Paladin of the Dawnflower, engaged in aiding cultists hiding in the lands of Taldor (or fighting as part of the invasion in the last Qadirian-Taldor war).
All these are paladins engaged in Lawful duties - assigned by Lawful authority - it's just that the authority is different in each case. Heck, the last two could easily be fighting each other!
What is Lawful in one place is Un-Lawful in another. Which Law does your PC support? Where does she get her Law from?
"Will you vouch that she will uphold her secrecy about what we are about to show her, so help you your god?" Holy Moly - no way I can do that. I have no idea what it's going to show her, and if it relates to the Murders we're going to have to report it direct! Even if she doesn't report it, I will. This little beasty appears to be trying to trick me into braking my word.
"Ah, I would say there is no way I can state that. I have no idea what you are about to show her, and so cannot say what she would do with what she learns. I can say that if it does not pertain to our current assignment she is not likely to tell anyone about it. She's got more secrets locked up in that pretty little head of her's than... Well she has a lot of secrets. And I've never know her to blab. Heck, most of the time I get confused and think she's just a little human girl."
"Are you to die? Surely in time, all things die. Perhaps not today, and most likely not by my hand. To slay you would just return you to where you came from, to be summoned again, perhaps by something less controlling. No - bent to service, you are less likely to be a danger to others. So you are safe, for now, and perhaps in time you will be redeemed." yeah, been hanging out with to many Dawnflower followers
Heraldry would be the family crest on his shield, which is that of a minor Cheliax house (Country Gentry of Northern Chel Wine country). Religious symbols would be a silver pin in the shape of a bow firing an arrow (Erastil). Sense motive would realize that he is not likely to strike an Evil creature down on sight... He is after all, a native son of Cheliax. he doesn't like you, and is not likely to deal with you for any length of time, but ... He knows what you are now and will be watching you -- Sense Motive is only a +3, but Perception is +14
Assuming he is asked the same battery of questions - and after glancing to Da Goblin to receive a slight nod he responds.
What is your name?
"Percy Footman"
detect thoughts:
maybe one day Percy Coachman, or maybe even Percy BUTLER!
Have you been drinking?
detect thoughts:
??? Everything alive drinks... Wait maybe it doesn't mean water???
"Ah, recently? No, not in the last hour or so.'
Please tell me what societies, factions or guilds you are a member of...
detect thoughts:
this could take some time....
Pathfinder Society, Silver Crusade faction - though formally Cheliax, until the Paracountesss no longer spoke for my homeland. Ah... And a member of HouseHold Servants Local 433, though I am a bit behind on the dues for that...
Will you keep secret regarding what you might see within the armor which kneels before you?
Glancing again to Da Goblin... "As long as it does not compromise my Faith, Family or Country. Or is concealing major criminal acts.
detect thoughts:
Or has anything to do with the Cross Plane Murders...
Assuming someone opens the storeroom door (Da Goblin will if no one else does), Percy will stride into the room.
Percy takes a few rounds to look hard at each of the rooms inhabitants (including Lady Da Goblin). Detect Evil checks - just to get them out of the way.
He then smiles his "country boy" smile and asks, "Percy Footman, how might I be of service to you?"
You see before you a male halfling Fashionably Dressed, a dapper Halfling servant. Clearly an "Old Family Retainer", he is currently dressed in gleaming full plate armor and oddly seems to be carrying a human shield (tower shield for him).
The aasimar looks around with a bit of a frown on her face.
"Uh, Excuse me? A little Service please? Or are you just going to ignore my drink order and talk with friends?"
Speaking in Celestial, "Often the staff here move about unseen" Percy points at a wine glass sitting on the bar to the aasimars' left, filled with a white blend of Chelish wine. Light and slightly dry, with a hint of oak. "One would think they were all halflings. My grandfather always said, 'Halflings are easily overlooked!'" With a big grin, Percy gazes up at you, his soft brown eyes filled with interest.
Ninja'd by ah... 5 minutes? I type to slow! drat! Now what is she going to do with the extra drink?
Both the small bodyguard, and the "ladies maid" trail along behind Katisha, remaining 2 paces behind "the eye candy". The armored halfling watches the room closely, watching for possible "threats".
To a great extent, the definition of "Good" and "Evil" is kind of subjective (this statement will have a number of people object - but for the most part it is true). And tends to be (at least partly) a personal view.
So - you will have to make that call, influenced by your judge, and the other players.
Me - personally - I would call killing the Cleric in question an evil act. But ... I wouldn't call the players on it if I was the table judge. If I was one of the players? I would argue with the other players that we should turn him in (alive) to some form of authority (if possible).
(Now to put a weird spin on this...) After all, "they're worth more alive"...
FYI looking up the spell Celestial Healing it is a 1 round casting with a duration of CL/2 which is RoundDown[CstrLvl/2 r (min 1)] and gives Fast Healing 1 and a Good aura for the duration.
Then looking at the
PFSGGuide wrote:
All potions, scrolls, and wands are available only at the minimum caster level unless found at a higher caster level on a Chronicle sheet.
so a Wand of Celestial Healing 1@1 chg[50] $750/2PP is available for purchase in PFS. For the purposes of this thread you have better choices...
Fighters, Clerics, Paladins etc should get a Wand of Cure Light 1@1 [50] as the healing rate is way faster than a Wand of Infernal Healing and the Paladin avoids any hint of breaking his vows.
Wizards, Sorcerers, Bards etc should get the Wand of Infernal Healing 1@1 [50] as it is more cost effective and they can heal out of combat.
(Bolding mine)??? why Fighters? or did you mean Rangers?
The Lawful alignments are as opposed to chaotic alignments as good alignments are opposed to evil ones.
I vehemently disagree with this. In canon, the various Good gods and their followers actually get along fairly well in general, the only "kill on sight" reactions occur between good and evil.
More importantly, in play in almost every campaign out there (most definitely including PFS) the War of Good vs Evil is far, far more important than the philosophical difference between Law and Chaos.
There is a reason that the paladin gets Smite Evil and not Smite Chaos
The War between Demons and Devils = "Kill on sight" ... there's a reason Hellknights get Smite Chaos and not Smite Good...
Since your mount can double move and you still get a move action and a standard, you are still miles ahead on action economy.
If you really, absolutely have to be the fastest thing on the field, just bite the bullet, take the +5 DC, and ride bareback.
And far from ignoring my mount's encumbrance, I had a detailed spread sheet that showed encumbrance with and without rider.
My mage doesn't have to worry much about encumbrance, mostly because he has been medium encumbered since 4th level and there is nothing he can do about it. :)
just remember that "archery" would have a negative to shooting from a mount that double moves, as well as concentration checks for casting spells if you are on a mount that double moves...
and shots would take place half-way thru the move (it's an advantage sometimes - it means the "shot" takes place in the middle of the move, so move forward, shoot, move back... stay out of charge reach, but be in short range for the shot)
so... can a character look like he is using an SLA (Detect Evil) if he isn't? Would that provoke an AOO?
Would it use a skill and if so what skill would it use? (Bluff, or Spellcraft, or UMD or what?)
What action would it be? Or could it be any?
Player: "I'm using a detect shenanigans on this guy, just to see if he's honest... So he sees me staring real hard at him... does that provoke an AOO?"
Judge: "what?"
I'd call it a bluff check, and it does provoke, since you're intentionally letting your guard down the same way as if you were doing Detect Evil.
What kind up an action is it? A move? Or could it be a free action?
How much can a PC bluff? Can one bluff that she is doing a detect magic, or just a detect spell, or that she was just using magic?
Would it count as a lie for loosing Paladin abilities?
so... can a character look like he is using an SLA (Detect Evil) if he isn't? Would that provoke an AOO?
Would it use a skill and if so what skill would it use? (Bluff, or Spellcraft, or UMD or what?)
What action would it be? Or could it be any?
Player: "I'm using a detect shenanigans on this guy, just to see if he's honest... So he sees me staring real hard at him... does that provoke an AOO?"
Judge: "what?"
or if you just switched your faction just so they could get check marks?
I had two PCs that wanted/needed to change factions. Rather than use the "free" faction change available last year, I just looked around the table and said "anyone in XXX faction? I'm thinking of switching, wanna sponsor me?" spent the PP to change factions and they get the check. Even got some in game RP out of it...
The only thing that bothered me was the GM having every single bad guy attack us and not the mounts (thus negating one of the cool parts of mounted combat); he said, "he's smart enough to know not to attack the mount."
And that's a valid call. Anyone who's had to deal with Pathfinders, or Adventurers in general knows that they are far far more of a threat than the mounts they ride on. And if the mount looks like a good steed, they may want it for themselves!
not always true. My mount ("A.C.") is much more dangerous than I am. I introduce myself at the VC briefing as "Percy Footman, dog delivery system".
the mount has one less HP than Percy, the same AC, and does much more damage in combat. Often Percy will just drink a potion of Invisibility and use a wand of Vanish each round on A.C., right after the dog attacks.
Context aside, a bunch of Korvosan passersby got to see five people collectively stomping a cow carcass down a manhole while explaining, "It's okay! We're Pathfinders! We know what we're doing here."
If I ever return there, I'll use Prestige to name a friendly aberration as a Local Contact!
I actually did this!
Except for me, it was a mule and a keg of beer. And he reached up and pulled the (dead) mule thru the manhole in chunks... while I explained to any passers by "move along - nothing to see here!"
and yes, I spent the PP to make her a "Foreign Contact"!
Given that an animal companion that can talk still needs to use tricks in combat, I don't see this item as broken.
There would likely be some headache for GMs when players start assuming that just cos their pets can talk, those pets can also follow complex commands in combat.
wait... we already have that problem now! even when they CAN'T talk.
I often see players/judges assuming the AC can do all sorts of complex things. At my local shop, persons running PCs with ACs normally just avoid playing them at my table - otherwise they have to do things like create a list of "tricks" and all that...
But having an AC that can talk?! think of the Role Playing chances!
Judge as AC: "Does this saddle make me look fat?"
Druid player: "...there is no safe answer to that question..."
While I can see how the Ring of Eloquence would be useful for a wildshaped druid (It's basically a lite version of the Wild Speech feat.)
Isn't it quite a costly item for an animal companion?
You would first have to get your animal companion to Int 3 (Just because you can speak a language, doesn't mean you are smart enough to do so.), spend a feat for the ring slot and then buy this ring?
That is 1 level stat up, 1 feat slot and 3500gp just so your animal companion can report back after scouting or scream for help in the middle of battle.
most persons with animal companions will want to raise the INT anyway...
and the requirement for the feat can be bypassed with a hand in the neck slot to give an extra ring slot... or heck, just burn the feat. Looks like you would be burnning a feat for being able to talk! works for me.
drat...
if a PC doesn't feel comfortable with "the new order" what are thier options? I ask because I have a few in Cheliax that are likely NOT to be comfortable in "the Dark Archive"... feels to much like "house slytherin"
and many of my Good PCs (and all my Lawful ones) are Cheliax. So I felt kind of attacked with this entire thread...
This is a genuine question. It is NOT bad wrong fun or the like. I'm just curious.
Why did you choose to have good PCs join the Cheliax faction? It seems an odd fit.
(reply posted under my Chel-Paladin PC)
Good people live in Cheliax too right? In fact, it is often said that the lower ranks of Hellknights often have Paladins in them. So, when I went to build a Halfling Paladin, I picked a "country boy from Arkansas" type of build - and figured that made him Cheliax. What other country has at it's base the fighting of Chaos (and demons)? True, the high nobles often go a bit overboard... but...
