Encumbrance is not really a rule worth tracking. It's a convenience, more than a perk. There are enough ways to futz with it that it really shouldn't be considered much of an asset. It's accounting, more than benefit, given the myriad ways there are to mitigate. Now, as to DR specifically in E6? I stand by my statement. Let's look at level 1. You put the fighter in chainmail. DR5. You go up against goblins who maybe deal 1d6 damage, and therefore, setting aside crits, deal 1 damage one time out of 6 hits. You're basically immune to goblins. And the hill giant above was not an accidental choice for the high-end monster. Meanwhile, AC becomes an effectively meaningless mechanic. There are a lot of classes who just give up on the AC race already. The difference between an enemy having an 85% chance or a 95% chance to hit you isn't particularly meaningful, so oftentimes, it's more beneficial for a lot of classes to just drop off the bottom of the AC race and allocate these resources elsewhere. If armor stops being a source of AC, that becomes a more likely decision for almost everyone. The reason Pathfinder in general and D&D in particular have used the armor as AC model is, given the broad range of damage values, it progresses more smoothly, so long as AC generally scales at a similar rate to AB and stays in a relevant range. DR... doesn't, in the context of this game. If your goal is to simplify things, then more complications to fix the complications you introduced with your houserules is not sound design. Called shot rules are seldom graceful, and there's a reason they're not included by default. Then, there's the matter of bypass. Mundane armor is bypassed by magic weapons. Magic armor is bypassed by adamantine. Adamantine armor is /-. Adamantine weapons are quite accessible, at only +3000g, while adamantine armor starts at +5000g for light armor. Now, let's go back to that hill giant. It's subject to these rules, too, and loses its natural armor bonus to AC, instead getting DR. Its AC therefore goes from a relevant-but-surmountable 21 to a paltry 8, and it instead gains DR 13/adamantine. Or rather a stacking DR 4/magic from armor and 9/adamantine from natural armor. And there is no reason for the PCs to not be swinging around adamantine weapons at this point, ignoring those 13 points of natural armor, and with attack rolls such that AC drops off the bottom of the randomizer, so the hill giant trades 13 points of armor class for... nothing. Meanwhile, adding in a new called shot maneuver is another layer of complication, going counter to the simplification goal. In high damage variance games, which Pathfinder is, it's much simpler and more practical to model armor as a thing that deflects damage, rather than a thing that reduces it. Also, it's an extra math step. Extra math steps are almost always an increase in complication. As to choosing your stat to hit? Feat Tax rules of various stripes are pretty standard. The weapon finesse feat, as a notion, is a horrible design decision, because it's not a feat that makes you better. It's a feat that lets you exist in the first place. A tax you have to pay just to be, say, a melee Rogue at all. It's an ability that you should just have as an option. And there's a reason later games do away with it. Starfinder, 4e, 5e. On the topic of simplifying things in general? The binder of houserules, which this seems to be fast becoming, always makes things more complicated. I mean, you just linked a seven-page pdf on what you're doing to replace, "Roll 1d20+CMB. If it's more than the CMD number on so-and-so's sheet, you do the thing." Changing things adds a layer of complication, in that it's more documents that you have to reference and cross-reference. What's more, replacing systems causes much more complication and unintended consequence than tweaking them. See the above linked feat tax rules' approach of lumping together the basic combat maneuver feats into "the one that lets you do skillful stuff" and "the one that lets you do brutish stuff."
Cole Deschain wrote:
Humans on Earth don't have the hit point pools of humans in D&D.
Paired with splitting melee? Taking away power attack and the other damage boosters and shifting to armor as DR all comes together to make your general approach "take things away from muggles." Nonmagical characters in Pathfinder need help. Not their few meaningful options taken away. You're talking about gutting muggle damage options in order to force them to take a stat that only really affects damage, and only a little bit. As to the armor as DR? A lot of the variant rules are half-baked ideas that don't actually work particularly well. This one's a huge pile of unintended consequences that is useless against a lot of foes, turning you into a sitting duck, while turning others into trivia. There's a reason in the stock rules treat DR the way they do. Bypasses at low levels. Kept out of player hands more or less save for a point or two until higher levels where it doesn't matter. It's 'cuz the way Pathfinder's structured, DR doesn't work very well as a primary defensive mechanic. There are games structured around armor as some form of damage soak. They scale hit points and damage very differently. Meaningful attacks that can deal one point of damage before soak don't exist. Shadowrun, as an example, uses soak pools. The basic heavy pistol that's the smallest weapon you're liable to consider a serious weapon starts at 8 damage. An assault cannon? 16. Health pools start at a value and doesn't stray too far. In Pathfinder, you need DR at a value that lets the Rogue precisely swinging a dagger that deals 1-4 damage to coexist in a sphere with a hill giant that deals 12-26 damage. The correct DR value for that does not exist. To get DR to work in context, you would need HP, damage, and DR to all scale in a relatively narrow band with regards to level. Pathfinder, as structured, is all over the g&$~*%n place. Also, unless you are a caster, damage does not scale with level as a PC. It scales with all manner of odd and sundry abilities that you just made a note to remove from the game. Nor does AC, which you're also skewering. Meanwhile, AB and HP do, which is one of the roots of a lot of the problems you run into fiddling with the game's core mechanics. Anyways, if you're making AB keyed off of strength, at a bare minimum, you'd need to combine strength with constitution into a unified brawn stat that may actually be worth caring about instead of bypassing outright. Hell, while you're at it, instead of moving will saves to charisma and turning wisdom into the useless mental stat, may as well eliminate it outright. Maybe rename "Wisdom" to "Insight" and have it take over some functions. Move diplomacy to insight, bluff to intelligence, and intimidation to brawn so everyone can do some social stuff and every stat matters to pretty much everyone. But more reasonably? You're getting well out of the realm of houserules and into the realm of game design, and that's just a huge headache. Better to either play closer to the book, or just run a different game. Sounds like you want to tone down the fantasy, but you're starting with one of the highest-magic properties on the market, and Paizo's approach is to crank everything up to eleven. Next step up the high fantasy tree is Exalted. Maybe you'd be better served trying something that's made for a lower-magic baseline. Blue Rose/Dragon Age, Savage Worlds Fantasy, Burning Wheel. Even 13th Age. All way easier to keep toned down than Pathfinder.
Wikis are no replacement for books. Trying to teach yourself out of a wiki is, quite deliberately, difficult. The SRD is supposed to be a reference, not a replacement for product. Bad business otherwise. Anyways, maximum dexterity bonus to armor class is just that. It is the maximum dexterity bonus you can add to your armor class. If you're naked? You add your entire dexterity modifier to armor class. If you're wearing armor, it restricts your movements, and can only be so nimble. There is a cap to the dexterity modifier you can benefit from. If your dexterity bonus is equal to or less than that number, you're fine. If your dexterity bonus is greater? Then you start missing out. Generally, characters who tend to have higher dexterity scores tend to wear lighter armor. So. Let's say your dexterity is 18. That means your dexterity modifier is +4. If you are naked, your AC is 10 plus your dexterity modifier. 10 + 4 = 14. If you are wearing leather armor, which is an armor bonus of 2 and a max dex of 6, your armor class is 10 + 2 + 4 = 16. If you're wearing full plate, which is armor bonus 9, max dex 1? Then you can only add one point of that dex modifier to AC. 10 + 9 + 1 = 20.
"Realism" based changes on muggles do them no favors, and removing even more things from strengths purview only serves to make it a more superfluous stat. Brutish who hits hard but not often is anyone who chooses to use Power Attack. Realism is not a goal of a game of any description, but fantasy less so, and is a houserule that royally screws over muggles more than they already are, even in E6. The goal of the game is genre convention and gameplay. Dex already governs many, many things already, and it's easy to get damage from sources other than strength. This is a poor plan built on poor logic.
Psychic is thoroughly viable. They're still a full caster, same as any other. Are the other full casters better? Probably. But that doesn't mean the Psychic isn't viable. You're just a little less God, with some meaningful limits. But the basics are the same. Useful spells to sway the fight, then sidearm for cleanup. Mind whammies, utility, and buffs are your forte. And unlike the Mesmerist, you can start out at level one with a Phrenic amp that will not only let you target the undead (the usual shutdown button for mind whammies), but do so with no penalty. Mesmerist doesn't get that until level 3, and even then, it's limited and the penalty is huge.
Rysky wrote:
That's my point.
Zolanoteph wrote: Issues of OGL and copyright aren't exactly on my mind now, I'm more concerned about the fate of 3.X mechanically. The books are still there. They're fine. Nobody hurt them. You are free to use them to your heart's content. M W 641 wrote: Dude. I found the preorder books on amazon and did a google search that brought me here. It would have been nice for a link instead of someone telling me im in the wrong place..... Even a stranger on the side of the road can point a finger. Thanks for nothing. Thread necromancy is poor netiquette everywhere. It would be more appropriate for you to apologize, then ask.
Be a Wizard. Have a contingency that will teleport you out of range if he comes within reach. Use wall spells to encircle the Paladin. Wall of Iron in particular. Start with a Quickened Wall of Iron via metamagic rod to encircle the Paladin, then use the metamagic rod in your other hand to drop a maximized Cloudkill, which will do two points of constitution damage per round even on a successful save. On followup turns, maximize a Freezing Fog via rod. 18 cold damage isn't enough to harm the wall of iron. Then, when the Paladin starts attacking the wall, whatever side he attacks, cast Wall of Force on that side, which will be much harder to get through. Three walls of force and he's stuck in a much stronger cage. All those options ignore spell resistance, and the only thing that offers a save still does 2 Con damage if it works. If you can get Fogcutting Lenses approved, this becomes much easier. Have a bunch of Dispel Magic ready, and you just have to hold him in the cloud long enough for him to die of Cloudkill and DoT, and dispel whatever countermeasures he has in the form of magic. Your spell slots will outlast his.
Brother Fen wrote:
You are free to scroll right on by, friend. Also, that ain't the kind of attitude that builds a community.
How do you dig into the character options? There are a few ways. The normal and expected way? You start with the core book, maybe plus one. You pick a race, class, skills, feats, maybe some spells, and some gear. Class, feats, spells are the parts that require some measure of system mastery, but ultimately, you start small. Once you're comfortable with that book, you spiral out to other books. Most classes can nominally do well with just their book of origin and the core rules, setting aside the divide between casters and non-casters, and the rest is just more toys. There are also guides to almost every class and places you can get together with folks that have the ridiculous encyclopedic knowledge, which can point you to spiffy options you may not have considered. But character creation in Pathfinder is not just a means to an end. It is, itself, a game. If you do not enjoy fiddling with character creation, you probably won't enjoy Pathfiner. Or Exalted. Or Shadowrun. Or most really heavy character creation systems.
Linsolv wrote:
Humans aren't rational, and are controlled by emotions. Doesn't mean they ain't smart. Also, a lot of sunk cost fallacy, personal investment leading to perceptions of betrayal, and 3.X systems are very mechanically heavy in a way that requires you to invest a lot of yourself in order to build up the necessary level of system mastery to use them effectively. Folks tend to not want to abandon that investment.
Linsolv wrote:
Pathfinder is kind of a game built on inertia. Something you gotta understand is there is a huge part of the fanbase that has literally never played a non-d20 system, and to whom learning a different system seems like an insurmountable hurdle. A lot of people are in gaming groups that are built out of decades-long gaming traditions that are entirely structured around dealing with the specific quirks and flaws that have existed in Dungeons & Dragons from the beginning. The things Pathfinder specifically has going for it? Lots of character customization, by the standards of a class-and-level game. Put it next to 5e? In 5e, some characters are literally out of meaningful character customization choices at level 3. You've got your spec. You know what your key stats are. You're done. Pathfinder, you have more freedom... with the caveat that it's still a level-based game. But some people have serious issues breaking that paradigm. Pathfinder has a large player base. Having players gets players. A lot of people play Pathfinder because their only real options are Pathfinder and 5e. Pathfinder Society. Widely spread organized play, much like with the Adventurers' League, makes Pathfinder highly, highly accessible compared to most other systems. Adventure paths. Paizo puts out some of the highest quality prepackaged adventures on the market. Right now, I believe there are twenty-four full, level one to level high-enough adventures, with two more on the docket before the launch of Pathfinder 2e. Over the years, D&D has kind of become a parody of itself. WotC kind of shies away from that and tries to take itself seriously. Pathfinder embraces and celebrates the goofy kitchen sink fantasy that it is. You have Numeria, the land of lasers and barbarians, with robots and crashed UFOs, basically Yor: Hunter from the Future. You have gnomes making chainsaw glaives. You have pathfinder's take on goblins, which is the best take on goblins. They wear their heart on their sleeve with their inspirations. You have the Alchemist, the most iconic Pathfinder class, which is very Jekyll and Hyde. You have the Kineticist, an elemental mage which clearly draws heavy inspiration from The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra. You have the Vigilante, which has the Batman style double life going on. You have the Investigator, which is unashamed to flaunt its Sherlock Holmes inspirations. It comes from this place that drawing inspiration from new sources is nothing to be ashamed of, rather than necessarily locking down on the same old same old. But it's still an unbalanced ball of unresolved legacy issues that has a much higher barrier to entry than it thinks it does and requires everybody involved to try not to break the game every time they look at it funny.
OmniMage wrote:
Short answer is... yes. Spellcasters are written broadly. Very broadly. Like, to a point where it's a major balance issue. Most of the casters can do almost anything. The only caster that I would say is actually limited in what they can do is the Mesmerist, which is mainly mind and illusion stuff.
Lady-J wrote: the lay on hands scaling gets pretty good at higher paladin levels.... swift action self heal for when your not shooting quickened spells While true, that would require you to commit, and therefore opt out of the ability to dip more random little abilities all over the place. Lay on hands is nice, but not as nice as you can get from some ridiculous multiclassed monstrosity.
Ah. Well, the above options still apply. Paladin doesn't necessarily get you a great deal past level 2. Level 4 really just gets you Way of the Shooting Star as a bonus feat. You could back off there to give yourself some more wiggle room. Oracle, I forgot you get a revelation at level 1, so you only need one level in it at all. Taking Oracle vice Scaled Fist would let you retain the freedom to wear armor and use shields. As you're an arcane caster, this would probably be a haramaki and a mithral buckler, but they can be enchanted. Combine with Noble Scion and you're pretty much out of uses for dexterity and are free to dump it outright; a magic haramaki and buckler will likely exceed your dexterity modifier anyways. If you either take Oracle to level 3 or take Extra Revelation, you can also grab Lore Keeper revelation from the Lore mystery, which lets you use charisma for knowledge skills. Oracle 1 again, if you take the Nature mystery, you are again using charisma in place of dexterity for AC, but now, you're also using charisma for your CMD, which would normally be a weakness. Last on the Oracle 1 bandwagon is the Heavens mystery, Guiding Star revelation, you can key your wisdom-based skills off of charisma, and get a spiffy metamagic benefit that isn't locked to Oracle spells. Mesmerist 1 actually gets you a lot. Those spell slots can be used for Burst of Adrenaline, which can be a +8 to any reflex or fortitude save at the cost of one round of fatigue. Burst of Insight leaves you dazed for a round, so it's a more out-of-combat thing, but still handy. Hypnotic Stare is an irresistible -2 Will. You get to pick a trick, like Compel Alacrity, which if you or an ally start a round in melee lets them move ten feet as a free action at the start of their turn, without counting against their movement, which is super great. Or Gift of Will, which can let your allies use your presumably awesome will save. Take a level of Arcanist and you can take the Metamixing exploit, which does not state that it is limited to arcanist spells. It lets you spend from your spell pool to apply metamagic without increasing casting time. A level of Witch with the Seducer archetype can let you take a hex keyed off of your charisma instead of intelligence. Slumber is a winner, here. It won't be great, but with an outrageous charisma, it can be usable, particularly if you took that level in Mesmerist.
Desna is chaotic/good can't have Paladins, and Way of the Shooting Star requires you to be a Desna worshipper. She doesn't get the Sune clause. However, you can still get pretty much everything from Oracle, if you're a Samsaran. Oracle 3, you can pick up the Sidestep Secret for charisma to AC. You can be an oracle of Desna, to pick up Way of the Shooting Star. Take Oracle to level 4, and you get second-level divine spells. The Mystic Past Life Samsaran ability lets you put Bestow Grace on the Oracle spell list, which basically lets you cast the paladin's grace as a buff. Alternately, if a minutes/level buff doesn't do it for you? If your GM allows custom races, be a race that is actually undead. Not humanoid with some undead-like traits, like the dhampir. Undead don't have a constitution stat, and add charisma to fortitude saves that they're not immune to, as well as to their hit points, which I don't think you can get any other way. Still an Oracle of Desna, for the sidestep mystery, which also gives you charisma to Reflex. Then, take two levels of Mesmerist, which gives you Towering Ego, adding charisma to will saves as long as you're not suffering an emotion effect. Without the paladin's grace, you get charisma to each of your saves, through race and class, as well as HP and hit points. And you're simultaneously an arcane, divine, and psychic caster. Best Mesmerist spell picks are probably Burst of Adrenaline and Burst of Insight, which let you add 8 to any roll based on a physical or mental stat respectively as an immediate action, at the cost of being fatigued or dazed. It's a super useful way to use those otherwise not-great mesmerist spell slots, and the hypnotic gaze is useful to your Sorcerer spells that rely on will. While you're at it, you may as well pick up Noble Scion, which replaces dexterity with charisma for initiative.
We can argue this one 'til the cows come home. Just talk to your GM. If your GM rules that casting [Evil] spells makes you evil, just follow up by casting a bunch of [Good] spells until you're not evil. Animate Dead once. Protection from evil three times. Easy day. You can get past a lot of the moral objections by animating only unintelligent beasts. Kill a wolf. Eat the meat. Clean the bones and bring it back as a skeleton.
Pax Miles wrote: I still think it's weird that making a golem isn't evil, but making animated skeletons is evil. I mean, in both cases, you are basically making robots. Materials is the difference. Actually, there is one key difference. The golem-making process is partly spelled out. They are animated by binding an elemental, merging it into the substance of the vessel, and using it to animate the vessel into a mindless, obedient automaton. Elementals are intelligent creatures. So you are enslaving an intelligent creature, trapping it in a mechanical vessel, and either lobotomizing it or putting it in an "I have no mouth and I must scream" situation with no control over its body. So, clearly, the one making skeleton cows is the evil one.
Tsukiyo wrote: You know Paizo's view. If yours differs, house rule it. Simple. Which, funny enough, is the, "Cast three Protection from Evils and call me in the morning," version if you're going by the books. :P
Volkard Abendroth wrote:
For most practical purposes, in normal, every-day lighting, humans are functionally opaque. Unless we're in a scientific setting where such fine details of optics are important, a human is opaque. If they actually bother to describe it as translucent, then that is supposed to convey some meaningful content to us, not be some nebulous technicality if you shine a super bright light behind the synthesist in a dark room. If they're saying it, then it's safe to presume it's noticeable.
Ah. If it's Pathfinder Society, I know Way of the Shooting Star is banned. Channel Smite is core. Guided Hand is Ultimate Combat. But if you're stuck with core and not much else? Just stick to what you do, and that's divine spellcasting. Don't worry about being the face-puncher. Some clerics can do it. You didn't spec yourself for that. That's fine. You don't have to be doing something big every round.
I do not recommend multiclassing. You can fight just fine as a Cleric, and running out of spells is not as huge a concern as it's made out to be so long as you use your spells judiciously. Also, multiclassing means you aren't advancing your spellcasting, and aren't getting more spells to make running out of spells less of a concern. If you have a good Charisma score, Divine Fighting Technique: Way of the Shooting Star is the Desna-specific one, and it lets you use charisma for attack and damage with a starknife. The Guided Hand feat, which requires the Channel Smite feat, lets you use your wisdom to hit with your deity's favored weapon.
Cavall wrote: Doesn't seem "obvious" danger to me. While a wizard with a spellbook may be dangerous it's not putting you in direct immediate danger to give him one. Except immediate isn't a requirement. Only obvious. Giving the BBEG the key to Hell with which he can bring a diabolical horde isn't immediate danger, but it's obvious danger.
Initiative is what decides who goes first. If the BBEG attacks, everyone aware of BBEG rolls initiative. BBEG has to wait their turn. You can't get a free extra round by interrupting the GM and saying, "I attack!" after all. Defining an attack as some sort of out-of-combat, out-of-initiative "trigger" in order to give the BBEG an extra free attack and say it's per the rules is not kosher. If you want the BBEG to get that free bonus attack because they're the BBEG, just be honest with your players and say the BBEG is getting the opening attack because they're the BBEG. As to the readied action question? Readied action is not how I would interpret the situation. That sounds like stealth to set up an ambush. The NPC rounds the corner. Makes Perception opposed by the PC's stealth. And if they fail, the PC gets a surprise round. The readied action version sounds like a player trying to use specific rules to get around abilities they don't have. The character still has to react in order to take that attack. On successful perception, the NPC who rounded the corner also has to react in order to attack. Who reacts faster? The purpose of initiative is to find that out.
First? Bad. I don't care if you don't want to lose, you shouldn't be looking up stuff like this. That's cheating. Second? Golems have infinite spell resistance. Magic Jar has to oppose spell resistance. It automatically fails. Third? This is not the question of someone who doesn't want their ass kicked. This is someone who wants to cheese their way into having a stupid overpowered toy. If the goal were to not get your ass kicked, you'd be looking for ways to beat, bypass, or negate it. Not take it for your own. I strongly suggest you apologize to your GM for cheating.
Arcane Trickster... doesn't even work particularly well within its idiom. You're giving up too much to continue things that don't work well together. You'd be better off with just the spellcasting. Or single-classing one of the many, many two thirds casting classes and having some decent skills. Which is the forte of most of the two thirds casters.
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