Just Got Pathfinder And I'm Pissed


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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It honestly depends on the class you want to look up. For charts and base abilities:

Core Rulebook is for:

Spoiler:
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Wizard

Advanced Player's Guide is for:

Spoiler:
Alchemist
Antipaladin
Cavalier
Inquisitor
Oracle
Summoner
Witch

Advanced Class Guide is for:

Spoiler:
Arcanist
Bloodrager
Brawler
Hunter
Investigator
Shaman
Skald
Slayer
Swashbuckler
Warpriest

Ultimate Combat is for:

Spoiler:
Gunslinger
Ninja
Samurai

Ultimate Magic is for the Magus

Occult Adventures is for:

Spoiler:
Kineticist
Medium
Mesmerist
Occultist
Psychic
Spiritualist

Pathfinder Unchained is for:

Spoiler:
Unchained Barbarian
Unchained Monk
Unchained Rogue
Unchained Summoner

Ultimate Intrigue is for the Vigilante

Ultimate Wilderness for the Shifter

Extra class-specific options like Archetypes or variant abilities are all over the place, and it may be better to use a resource such as the official Player Reference Document, or fansites such as Archives of Nethys or D20PFSRD


The advance player’s guide is a separate book which contains the cavalier and a few other classes. You may want to get it to better understand how they work. In the meantime you can look here for the Cavalier class details: http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ClassDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Cavalier

All classes require the same amount of experience to level up but there are some differences based on the class.

At each level you gain more hit points according to your class hit die. So a for a Druid you would roll a d8 and add to that your Constitution modifier. (If you have a 12 Con, it would be a +1 giving you a d8+1 each time you level up in Druid. As a cavalier, our fiancé would gain a d10 plus her Con modifier. (Many GM allow you to take average rounding up instead so 5+Con and 6+Con per level respectively.)

You also gain skill points to assign each level according to your class. 4+Intelligence modifier each level for both Druid and Cavalier.

You also get the unique class abilities for your class. Animal companions also level up at the same time as their owners.

With feats, you gain a new one each odd level (3rd,5th,7th,etc.) Some classes like Cavalier gain more as class abilities.

At every 4th level (4,8,12,etc.) you gain a additional stat point to assign to a stat of your choice. So if your strength is 12 you can increase it to 13. This wouldn’t have much of an immediate effect aside from increasing your carrying capacity. However, if you later increase it from 13 to 14. This would increase your strength modifier from a +1 to a +2 which would increase your melee attack bonus and the damage you deal with melee attacks by the same amount (increase of 1.) If you have this increase apply to your Constituion and increase your modifier it increases your hit points by another point from that point on, but it also affects all of you previous levels as well. (So if your Con imodifier increases by 1 at 8th level you gain 7 maximum hit points plus the normal amount that you would gain at level 8.)


When I read the table, a level 20 character has a BAB of +20/+15/+10/+5. What does that mean?


When using a manufactured weapon (like a sword or an axe, but not if they use claws gained from a spell or something), you get extra attacks once your BAB hits 6. When using a standard action to attack, you get one at 1d20+20+everything else. However, if you use a full-round action, you get one at +20, one at +15, one at +10, and one at +5.


So if I do a standard attack, at that level I just add all the +attack numbers. If I choose to do my full round, I can break my attacks up?


Also now that I have the table I think I understand the character creation now. It only took hours of multiple DAYS. I appreciate all the help. I am still a firm believer that this information needs to be streamlined better.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:
I appreciate all the help.

Hey, we've all been there... in my case, not in over twenty-five years, but still... better to toss someone a line when they need a hand. We're all in this together.


It's all fairly straightforward once you understand it. ^^ The game definitely has a pretty high learning curve, but once it's second-nature, things go muuuuch faster.

A standard action attack allows you to make one attack at your highest bonus (your BAB plus any other modifiers, such as from having a magical weapon or a high Strength/Dexterity score). You can attack different creatures with each attack, but you usually can't move between attacks (other than taking a 5-foot step, which is an important tactical option). Incidentally, you don't have to commit to making multiple attacks until after you make your first - if you happen to kill a foe with your first strike and want to move instead, you can do that.

Aside from that... hmm... well, I have a bit of an idea for how to make things go smoother. XD


Angry Adventurer wrote:
So if I do a standard attack, at that level I just add all the +attack numbers. If I choose to do my full round, I can break my attacks up?

So on your turn you get:

- 1 move action, 1 standard action, 1 swift action and *some* free actions (usually around 3, this is totally up to the GM)
OR
- 1 full-round action, 1 swift action and *some* free actions (usually around 3, this is totally up to the GM)
Essentially the full-round action replaces the move action and standard action.

In regards to your BAB, +20/+15/+10/+5 would mean that you can make 4 attacks if you use a full-round action (you get 1 attack for each number seperated by slashes). For each attack after the first, the attack bonus goes down by 5 (as shown by the numbers).

If you decide to use a move action and a standard action, you would only get 1 attack, and it would use the highest of the attack modifiers for your level (+20 in this case).

If you're having trouble with finding the details for a class (like the attack bonus table) I find the PFSRD site the easiest way to find them (because typing "pfsrd cavalier" into google is easier to write than "archivesofnethys.com cavalier", especially when I'm on my phone).
It is worth noting that both the pfsrd site and archivesofnethys are third-party material, which means they don't always get everything right (and the pfsrd site is not allowed to put specific names like deities etc in their site, so some things are missing).


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Wait until you get to feats...

I believe the Open University are running a course on feat selection. It’s done over two years and the end examination involves soloing a Pathfinder society module.

The scary thing is if such a thing existed i’d take the course. I feel your pain.

Sovereign Court

Honestly, I think you may be doing this the wrong way round.

Most of the time we learn how to use something before we learn to make it.

Pathfinder has pre-generated characters for every class at level 1, level 4 and level 7.

Try playing a simple scenario with the pre-gens and character creation will make sense.

The lay-mans term for this is the learning curve.

It’s why things like the Beginner Box exist. And why a lot of people start by joining an existing group and watching a lot of what others do.


As a note, while it is only for the base classes and I can't speak for the effectiveness of the 'builds' This is why the Strategy Guide was made, as I believe it is a much more palatable breakdown of the system and character creation for Newbies who have no background knowledge to get them started.


Angry Adventurer wrote:
So if I do a standard attack, at that level I just add all the +attack numbers. If I choose to do my full round, I can break my attacks up?

Nope. As a standard attack you only get to use the highest number. (In this case, twenty.) The other numbers don't matter at all unless you do a full-round attack.

The Concordance

Congrats Angry Adventurer!

You've spent days learning something that some people take years learning.

This is why most people like this game by the way: the time investment and studying is a barrier to entry that we all cherish and worship, proud that it's a game that most people are either too dumb or lacking in attention span to even try.

Welcome, geek.

PS: admit it... now that you've spent the time to grind through the Core book, you feel some kind of pride don't you? and you secretly wish for this game to remain this complicated, yes? :P :) :D

PS2: I wouldn't beat myself up too much if I were you... I've been gaming for years with some people that never took the time to read the Core book (and it shows: they can min/max optimize the heck of a toon, but during the actual game they have no idea how long it takes for their toon to pull out a potion or jump unto a horse...)


The only book one needs is the Core Rule Book. It's always been a tradition in D&D to have someone familiar with the game actually teach you how to play by DMing sessions for you. That's how one learns the system. Save your anger for things that warrant it and find someone to help you play.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:
Also now that I have the table I think I understand the character creation now. It only took hours of multiple DAYS. I appreciate all the help. I am still a firm believer that this information needs to be streamlined better.

Paizo agrees with you on this. They're working on releasing a second edition that has less of that confusing stuff. August 2nd, they'll be putting the playtest PDF out for free so you can try that out if you want!

Grand Lodge

And if you've made a couple PCs, your Druid and your wife's Cavalier, print out a few of the 1st Level pre-gen characters and look them over .... then do some practice combats, just to see how ithe mechanics play a few times. Get some practice before you start a real game.


Didnt Paizo come out with a Strategy Guide a few years ago to help in this matter?


Only things I'm having trouble finding now are how ability scores increase when leveling. I think I get almost all of it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:
Only things I'm having trouble finding now are how ability scores increase when leveling. I think I get almost all of it.

Okay, this is an easy one for me to answer- every four levels, a player picks one of their character's ability score and increases it by 1.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:
Only things I'm having trouble finding now are how ability scores increase when leveling. I think I get almost all of it.

In general, Ability scores do not increase when you level.

When level up to Lvl 4, 8, 12, and 16, you can add one point to an ability score of your choice.

Other than that, they don't increase as you level.

Advancing Your Character


Okay another thing, I'm observing a (enemy) character's offensive stats.

Melee +1 longsword +8 (1d8/19–20)

So to make sure I am reading that right, I'd assume he would have 9 added to his attack roll? He does 1d8 damage, and is a threat if it is in the 19 to 20 range?


ALSO say, I am level 3, does that mean I can use any spell in that tier as long as I meet requirements? Do I HAVE to learn spells?


Angry Adventurer wrote:

Okay another thing, I'm observing a (enemy) character's offensive stats.

Melee +1 longsword +8 (1d8/19–20)

So to make sure I am reading that right, I'd assume he would have 9 added to his attack roll? He does 1d8 damage, and is a threat if it is in the 19 to 20 range?

Not quite. The character gets a +8 modifier on their attack roll. He should do 1d8+1 damage, though (assuming no Strength modifier), because the longsword seems to be magical, with an enhancement modifier of +1. The threat range for a critical hit is correct.

Whether a character receives all spells of a spell level automatically depends on their class. I suggest you read the relevant class feature. It is always called 'Spells'.

A character of third level will have access to 2nd level spells at best.


But if I have access to 2nd level spells, can I use all of them, if requirements for stats are met? Also say I read this,

Melee +1 longsword +8 (1d8+5/19–20)

Would the +5 be indicative of a weapon or stat bonus?


I'll break it down for ya.

Melee: Declares whether the attack is Melee or Ranged, because they get different modifiers.

+1: A number here signifies that a weapon has a magic enchantment. This adds to its accuracy and damage, and at +3 or higher, gives the weapon the ability to bypass certain defenses. You may also see Mwk (Masterwork), which is not magical but gives a +1 bonus to attack, special materials like Cold Iron, or weapon special abilities like "Flaming" following the number. In most cases, an item needs a magical enhancement of +1 or more before it can get special abilities.

longsword: The type of weapon used. Tells you what item to check under if you need to reference less-common things like the weapon's hardness or the type of damage it deals.

+8: This is the weapon's normal accuracy, added to your d20 roll when you make an attack. You may need to add other bonuses or penalties. If it's followed by "touch", it means it targets touch AC instead of normal AC. (This is usually spells and attacks from certain types of creatures, like ghosts.)

(1d8/19–20): The weapon's damage and critical threat range. You seem to have a good grasp on this.

Some people modify their own profile sheets a bit to add more information. For example, they might write "1d8 S" to serve as a reminder that their weapon does slashing damage, or add a second line with "PA: +7/1d8+2" to show their rolls when they're using the Power Attack feat (as many sword-using characters will).


Angry Adventurer wrote:
But if I have access to 2nd level spells, can I use all of them, if requirements for stats are met?

Look, if you are unwilling to read the relevant passage yourself, this will be a wasted effort. It really is not that hard.


Angry Adventurer wrote:

But if I have access to 2nd level spells, can I use all of them, if requirements for stats are met? Also say I read this,

Melee +1 longsword +8 (1d8+5/19–20)

Would the +5 be indicative of a weapon or stat bonus?

Spell usage will vary between classes, with each explaining how under their 'Spells' feature description, but as a Druid, you effectively get access to all spells on your list. At the time you prepare your spells, you select which spells you want for the day, filling your spell slots with specific spells. Like choosing a loadout of sorts, which are with you until used or until you prepare spells again.

Creature and NPC statblocks don't really break down where bonuses come from, but is often the sum of many different bonuses. That +5 could be from anywhere, but since the weapon is enchanted with a +1 bonus, we would know that at least one point of damage comes from that. The creature's Strength bonus would very likely factor in as well, but there are countless different ways to add to your damage.


Angry Adventurer wrote:
ALSO say, I am level 3, does that mean I can use any spell in that tier as long as I meet requirements? Do I HAVE to learn spells?

As a druid, you have access to the whole druid spell list. At level 3, you're able to actually prepare and use the 0th, 1st, and 2nd level ones. Druids (and some other classes like cleric, shaman, and warpriest) don't need to learn their spells. They have access to their class's whole list when they prepare, and can use whatever they've prepared that day. If they want to do something entirely different tomorrow, they can prepare entirely different stuff.

Some casters, like alchemists, wizards and magi, have to learn their spells (or extracts in the case of alchemists). They can learn anything on their class spell list given time and investment, but can't prepare anything on their class' list until it's been learned.

Some casters like the Sorcerer and Oracle are spontaneous. When they level up, they learn a certain number of new spells based on their class, and which level they just hit. Unlike the wizard and friends, they typically only learn new spells on level up, so their options are fewer, and they can't change their loadout day by day. They don't have to deal with preparing the wrong thing, though.


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Fabius Maximus wrote:
Angry Adventurer wrote:
But if I have access to 2nd level spells, can I use all of them, if requirements for stats are met?
Look, if you are unwilling to read the relevant passage yourself, this will be a wasted effort. It really is not that hard.

Be nice. It's easy to miss a relevant passage or two, even for folks who are familiar with the game.

And OP's been invited to ask questions by the people here. If you don't want to answer them, that's fine, but don't discourage someone from asking questions immediately after they've been told to feel free to ask questions.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Angry Adventurer wrote:
But if I have access to 2nd level spells, can I use all of them, if requirements for stats are met?
Look, if you are unwilling to read the relevant passage yourself, this will be a wasted effort. It really is not that hard.

Yes, it really is that hard, as the CRB is NOT laid out in a friendly manner. These questions come up time and again, because absorbing a near 600 page rulebook takes time and effort.


Most useful advice first: Pathfinder is not a rules lite system, don't expect to absorb it all at once. Don't worry about the stuff you won't need right away. Play it from 1st level (Despite my usual stance this is the best way to learn a system). Don't run before you can walk. Don't try and read the CRB cover to cover.

When I am learning a new system I will give it a quick skim read to learn where all the chapters are, then I will start creating characters. Learning a new system will by it's nature involve flipping back and forth through the book. there are so many elements to a character you really can't put them all in one place unless the system is really rules lite. Pathfinder is not rules lite. It is one of the most rules dense systems I am aware of.

The first characters I will build will be simpler characters - I'd build a fighter equivalent before I create a wizard or a druid.

Then I will run through a mock combat. keeping it simple. no manoeuvres only basic equipment. Then I'll do it again.

I'll read the rules for what I want as I need them. Don't try and learn all the rules at once, but familiarise yourself with the general layout - I don't know all the rules, but I know where to find them.

Read this page. Come back to it often. Seriously the number of answers this page holds to the most common questions is quite astounding.


I recommend paying particularly close attention to the bit marked "The Most Important Rule". XD It's there for a reason.


I am wrapping my head around the maximum dexterity bonus for armor. Does that mean I add that number to my dexterity score? Hmmmmm. Not understanding the +6. The description for it reads literally like it is a tentative number without explaining why. Me and 4 other friends have made our character sheets and have a good feel for what to do aside for the other stuff.

Understanding spells is ridiculous though, like I get our sorcerer can use sorcerer spells, but we don't understand if he has to train those domains/spelltypes before using them, we don't get how many you are allowed to have (in your arsenal) or use, and why. We all have packets for our classes and are learning.

I have learned to play this game and through wiki, none of the books.


Wikis are no replacement for books. Trying to teach yourself out of a wiki is, quite deliberately, difficult. The SRD is supposed to be a reference, not a replacement for product. Bad business otherwise.

Anyways, maximum dexterity bonus to armor class is just that.

It is the maximum dexterity bonus you can add to your armor class.

If you're naked? You add your entire dexterity modifier to armor class.

If you're wearing armor, it restricts your movements, and can only be so nimble. There is a cap to the dexterity modifier you can benefit from.

If your dexterity bonus is equal to or less than that number, you're fine. If your dexterity bonus is greater? Then you start missing out.

Generally, characters who tend to have higher dexterity scores tend to wear lighter armor.

So. Let's say your dexterity is 18. That means your dexterity modifier is +4.

If you are naked, your AC is 10 plus your dexterity modifier. 10 + 4 = 14.

If you are wearing leather armor, which is an armor bonus of 2 and a max dex of 6, your armor class is 10 + 2 + 4 = 16.

If you're wearing full plate, which is armor bonus 9, max dex 1? Then you can only add one point of that dex modifier to AC. 10 + 9 + 1 = 20.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:


Understanding spells is ridiculous though, like I get our sorcerer can use sorcerer spells, but we don't understand if he has to train those domains/spelltypes before using them, we don't get how many you are allowed to have (in your arsenal) or use, and why.

The sorcerer has two tables to consult to understand his spellcasting. The main class table (which has the base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and so on) has the Spell Per Day list. That shows you how many spells the sorcerer can cast in a day before he runs out of whatever magical energy it is that he uses to cast spells. For a 1st level sorcerer, that's three 1st level spells. For a 6th level sorcerer, that's six 1st level spells, five 2nd level spells, and three 3rd level spells. And so on. Once he's cast those spells, he's done until he gets a night's rest. After that night's rest, his spells per day slots are refreshed and he's ready to adventure for another day.

A high charisma may add to these values with extra castings per day.

Along with the number of slots he has to cast, a sorcerer operates with a limited number of spells he knows and it can help to compare and contrast with the wizard to understand this. Wizards use a spellbook that is functionally unlimited in the number of spells it can hold - over time, he can grow quite a varied arsenal of spells. A sorcerer, however, doesn't use a spellbook - he's a different, less well-studied kind of spellcaster. He knows a few tricks (spells) but can cast them without preparation ahead of time. A wizard has a wider repertoire of spells but has to prepare them each day - devoting a slot to a specific spell and cannot change them without getting rest and preparing his spell load out again. A sorcerer can choose what spell he's going to cast when he's casting it - he just has a much narrower list of known spells to choose from.

The sorcerer needs to consult his second spell information table - the spells known table. A 1st level sorcerer knows four 0-level spells (also known as cantrips) and two 1st level spells. When you put this with the spells per day list, you can see that the 1st level sorcerer can cast three 1st level spells a day that he knows - in any combination. In other words, he can cast those two 1st level spells he knows a total of three times in any combination - maybe he casts one of those two spells three times one day, or maybe he casts one spell twice and the other once - the player gets to pick as he needs them.
The four 0-level spells he knows are such simple minor spells he can cast them an unlimited number of times in a day.


Okay makes waaay more sense. I meant to say that I learned to play the game here and that d20 page. The core rulebooks, or books are so horrid in terms of layout it is like piecing a puzzle together. It MAKES ME want to make a straight up scrub guide myself.


And in regards to the more snobby posts. I have played 4E, Warhammer, LOTRSBG, Hail Caesar, Lion Rampant, Dark Souls, and more tabletop games. Believe me, this s%** is unique when it comes to learning it.


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I learned in a similar way to you. I had never played RPGs before, (or anything similar like a wargame), had no friends to teach me, and bought the CRB hoping to get my friends into it. It was hard, and took me a while (playing through encounters and reading adventures helped).

That said, it seems like you might not be going about this the right way. Reading d20 and asking questions here will help, but you have to start with the CRB. Read a chapter, or even a passage, then ask questions. The CRB does not have the best layout, but it's not the most obscure document in the world either. And ignore everything that's not the Core rulebook (don't read anything that starts with Advanced, Ultimate, or... anything that's not the Core Rulebook). Reading online makes that way harder, as an online reference won't discriminate between core and everything else, so you are shooting yourself in the foot by starting with information that's meant for people who already know the system.

I don't mean to be snobby, and I hope I've stayed respectful. But this seems to be the most important advice for you at this time.


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Angry Adventurer wrote:
And in regards to the more snobby posts. I have played 4E, Warhammer, LOTRSBG, Hail Caesar, Lion Rampant, Dark Souls, and more tabletop games. Believe me, this s$~@ is unique when it comes to learning it.

Ooh boy. I had so much trouble with Warhammer. If you got that one with relative ease, good on you.

I realize I haven't mentioned this yet: One of the sections of the CRB I found most useful when I was newer at PF is right at the start of Chapter 3, under "Advancing your character". Character creation is just the steps there, plus a couple extra (pick race, buy equipment).

You do still have to bounce around the book a fair bit to actually do each step, but I found that section useful for keeping tabs on which steps still needed to be done.

Grand Lodge

Oh yeah, right -- and we all forgot to say "You're welcome."

Keep the questions coming, and good gaming!


Welcome to the system, hope you enjoy your stay. Though as an aside, I had trouble wrapping my head around some of the Warhammer 40k pen and paper rules. And don't get me started on Rifts oi...

First character in new system is usually the hardest and should get easier. I won't suggest you swap to another class as you seem settled into Druid, but you did pick a class with probably more moving parts that you expected. Which at the end of the day is actually okay if you don't get around to using said parts.

I will however mention something here now, as you seemed hung up on Armor. So chances are you've looked at the armor tables and saw these.

Armor Check Penalty - is at basic, the penalty you have to doing some actions while in armor. To show that you can't move around as well in it or it's weight causes issue. This number is applied to any Skill that uses STR or DEX as the stat. So example, Swim and Climb are harder to do in heavier armor.

Arcane Spell Failure Chance - The chance an Arcane spell has to fail. Most spells need some sort of motion to cast and the armor can get in the way of doing the detailed movements required for the spell. However, due to your character being a Druid, a Divine Caster, this number might as well not exist for you. It only effects Arcane spell casters.

As a tip, while all the entries will define a class as Arcane or Divine(Or not a spell caster at all), another way to confirm is what the level 0 spells are called.

Orisons = Divine
Cantrips = Arcane

I do believe that covers all the armor numbers for you. Though if you understood the rest of the armor numbers before this post, ignore me. Once again, welcome to the game.


It's almost as if Paizo already knew that the game could be overwhelming for new players.
But actually, yes, it's a well known fact that the CRB isn't well organized, actually having been acknowledged by Paizo.

Dark Archive

Dropping straight into ANY RPG is not easy. Heck, some board games are a rough start - even Catan, with just like 8 pages of rules we didn't get right the first game (or two) we played. People still argue about Monopoly rules. Read the book. Re-read it. Ask someone who plays. Clarify that you understand. Read the book again. Ask someone ELSE who plays and confirm that is how it works. Think about it. Read the book again. Think of it as a challenge. Each page you learn is a learning experience. You have 590 or so learning experiences. As such, you also don't have to KNOW it all in one go. You understand page 140? You have more in common with 99% of the players. A few still don't get that all weapons do hit point damage (thus nonlethal is hit point damage of a subtype nonlethal, computed against fake HP on page 191). Again, you don't have to get it all in one go. We'll help. Most days.

I've been playing for the better part of 10 years and hadn't played many magic users and just learned (for sure) that ONLY arcane spells have a chance of failure, and ONLY if they have Somatic components. Wow. Still learning. Yep.


I just find humor in that literally the CRB hasn't done anything but introduce me to the ideas. The forums users and D20 have given me everything I want.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:
And in regards to the more snobby posts. I have played 4E, Warhammer, LOTRSBG, Hail Caesar, Lion Rampant, Dark Souls, and more tabletop games. Believe me, this s$$$ is unique when it comes to learning it.

The various war hammer 40k games? (Dark Heresy and all that?)

I found those equally terrible.


I managed to learn how to play in Shadowrun 4th and 5th edition, i know the physical combat and char gen, but Virtual and Astral combat is still a mystery to me.

The only game i know of that have at least 4 combat systems, and at least a few other encounter systems.


I've been playing Anima Beyond Fantasy for over two years now, and I still haven't even looked at convocation and ki techniques because that s$%&'s too much. Determining damage still confuses me sometimes, not to mention needing a goodamn calculator.
In comparison, Pathfinder was a lot easier to learn. While the book is chaotic, you only need to hunt all the terminology down and play some scenarios, for everything else we quickly googled a rule or just winged it. It helps that it has a lot of online resources and people who asked the same thing. It could be worse, is what I gues I'm saying.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:
Paizo listen. Your book may read well to veterans of 3.5, but my friends and I never played the thing! What you should do, if you haven't, is MAKE A GUIDE (that isn't this horrid core rulebook) that shows step by step how to make a character and what stats to fill and when. It is nonsense telling me how a skill works at level 3 on my druid when I don't even know what to do at level 1! Then placing a table in the middle of the text and having to read what s!*$ means AFTER you've passed the table. Come on! I still don't have a full character sheet made, and I still don't know how to play your game. I'm totally turned off at this point and 4e sounds more appealing.

Paizo does indeed publish such a guidebook:

Pathfinder Strategy Guide

The title is misleading. This book should be called the "Pathfinder New Player's Guide."

It should be EXACTLY what you're looking for!


Haladir wrote:
Angry Adventurer wrote:
Paizo listen. Your book may read well to veterans of 3.5, but my friends and I never played the thing! What you should do, if you haven't, is MAKE A GUIDE (that isn't this horrid core rulebook) that shows step by step how to make a character and what stats to fill and when. It is nonsense telling me how a skill works at level 3 on my druid when I don't even know what to do at level 1! Then placing a table in the middle of the text and having to read what s!*$ means AFTER you've passed the table. Come on! I still don't have a full character sheet made, and I still don't know how to play your game. I'm totally turned off at this point and 4e sounds more appealing.

Paizo does indeed publish such a guidebook:

Pathfinder Strategy Guide

The title is misleading. This book should be called the "Pathfinder New Player's Guide."

It should be EXACTLY what you're looking for!

Geez, I don't know why I didn't think of that. Ya, the Strategy Guide has a much better layout, is more beginner friendly, and goes through everything that is really important. And it's a good jumping off point for the Core Rulebook.

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