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I've read through both Bodhi and Marshmallow's antipaladin guides. They extensive and helped me understand the antipaladin class much better. But I'm curious, does one raise their PC's strength or charisma ability scores for ability score increases after level 1?


Hello All,

I'm still a little new to Pathfinder, but I've got experience with every version of D&D. I've always been drawn to the Wizard class in my time roleplaying, not just because of its almighty power, but Wizards have always interested me. Needless to say, the are my favorite class, with Fighter being a close second - total polar opposite ends of the spectrum, I know, but I feel like these two classes are legitimate 'blank slates' that one can customize however they wish. I guess Cleric can be considered as much as well, but I'm not big on the whole being a instrument of a God thing.

In any case, I digress. I'm trying to make a Wizard for an upcoming game I'm seeking to be a part of. It's open-ended and I plan on playing one of the two villains in the game. This is my first time making a Wizard in Pathfinder and I find the options available, much like that of a Fighter, creating a huge amount of options. For us, anything on SRD is allowed with the only caveat being all core races are available, in addition to Aasimar and Tiefling and no firearms/futuristic stuff.

For a villain, I've decided to go Tiefling; there's something appealing from a roleplaying perspective to play a fiend-born, especially a villain who is trying to pull strings from the shadows, similar to Manshoon.

As a Tiefling, I'm going to take Prehensile Tail as a trait to replace Fiendish Sorcery since I'm not playing a sorcerer and swift metamagic rods + multiple roleplaying aspects of this seem fun (Sleight of Hand with a tail? WHAT?). I was looking at Vestigal Wings, but playing an evil wizard who pulls strings from the shadows, I could see stealth and bluff being reasonably attractive as RP options (I also have good Dexterity score, which I'll cover later).

In any case, we rolled for our ability scores and I rolled a 7, 16, 16, 15, 13 and a 9 - decent scores for a Wizard. With the Tiefling Racial modifiers, my scores are as follows:

STR: 7
DEX: 18
CON: 15
INT: 18
WIS: 13
CHA: 7

A very respectable array for secondary stats, but Int is going to be missing a +1 throughout his entire level span. The nice part about the rolls is the Dex score allows me to negate having to grab an initiative trait and also means I can get away with 1 or 2 points in the Fly skill instead of 4-5. It also means I can do some interesting stuff with Dexterity skills, like stealth, sleight of hand, escape artist, etc. Considering I'll have 6 starting skills, and more at later levels, I'll be able to diversify outside the realm of just INT skills.

I'm choosing to go Divination (Foresight) as the spell school specialization and starting with Enchantment and Necromancy as my opposition schools. After level 10, I plan on reclaiming Necromancy with the Opposition Research Arcane Discovery. For this type of campaign, it will be very worthwhile to take this school over conjuration or evocation in my belief, because I know I will have to be constantly planning ahead and being careful with my actions, as well as always winning initiative. Many of the Divination spells allow RAW meta-gaming through keen use and scouting and I'll need to constantly be ahead of the heroes and heroic NPCs. And, with a handful of preferred spells, I can also sacrifice the slot for a more general utility spell.

My questions really pertain for a few things and all are both trait and feat related.

For traits, since I have 18 dexterity, I don't see myself as really needed to take reactionary, or any +2 initiative trait. So, I'm thinking of taking Magical Lineage and Gifted Adept. I know that its a good idea to plan this to a spell that you will want to apply Spell Perfection, so I'm curious to what spell is recommended for this. I've heard Fireball is excellent as well as Ball Lightning with Dazing Spell as a metamagic feat. I'm favoring Ball Lightning a little because of the battlefield control and the ability to seriously lock down an enemy. With Forewarned, Prescience and Foretell, I could see two orbs of dazing lightning that could be moved about as a move action, that cause another save against daze if the first is passed rather potent. Acting first and dropping two orbs on the field of battle to lock down two foes or more at later levels with Reflex saves. That's mean. Are there any other suggestions for these two traits? Is Electricity a better element than fire for SR reasons?

Also, I'm curious on feat progression. At level 1, I'm taking Improved Initiative. So with Forewarned, I will have +13 to initiative at level 1 (4 DEX mod + 4 Improved Initiative + 4 Initiative from Greensting Scorpion + 1 Initiative from Forewarned).

I will say that I have Improved Familiar as a lock at level 7 for an Imp, Opposition Research: Necromancy at level 9 and Spell Perfection: (spell still up in the air) at level 15. Also, I will need to take Heighten Spell, Preferred Spell: (whatever spell is chosen for spell perfection), Dazing Spell, Spell Penetration and Preferred Spell Penetration.

I will say, I'm allowed the Leadership feat as well and I plan on taking it soon after it become available. I plan on having my cohort be a crafter, so I'm not sure if it is worthwhile to put crafting feats on the PC.

So my initial feat thought process is:

Level 1: Improved Initiative
Level 3: Heighten Spell
Level 5 (2): Preferred Spell: (Spell chosen for Spell Perfection is applicable) or Fast Study, Spell Penetration
Level 7: Improved Familiar
Level 9: Fast Study or Preferred Spell: Spell chosen for Spell Perfection is applicable)
Level 10: Opposition Research: Necromancy
Level 11: Leadership
Level 13: Dazing Spell
Level 15 (2): Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Perfection: (spell chosen)

Does anyone have alternative suggestions for feat progression or alternative traits? All your thoughts are appreciated!


This is my first post and my first truly custom build, so please take it easy on me :).

I've been building a character for a new campaign I'm playing in - the setting is an large, open world with 20 players and the setting is Faerun, but uses Pathfinder rules. I'm trying to make an optimal Fighter, while still keeping it fun for roleplaying and versatile enough for an open world game where Fighting doesn't happen on a daily basis. And the campaign has the possibly of taking players from level 1 - 20.

I started researching a lot for the PC and have spent the past week or so reading through optimizing guides, understanding archetypes, feats and traits and I finally came together with something interesting.

Basic Background Fluff:
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The PC was born in Cormyr, left at a young age. Grew up in Tangled Trees with Elves, but returned to Cormyr as an adolescent. Was picked up by the War Wizard Academy, but eventually washed out as an apprentice. Picked up with the Purple Dragons afterward and stayed with them for some time, until his dissatisfaction with regimented service was exploited by the Zhetarim. Resigned from the Purple Dragons to join the Zhentarim until he uncovered a plot where they were summoning beasts to attack villages to get hired to ward them off. now is traveling to the Sword Coast with an Oracle for Llorkah to escape Zhentarim lands.

General Character Thought Process:
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In any case, looking at the strengths of the Fighter, my goal was to create a character that has the ability to turn on the pain, but also exhibit some buffing/de-buffing and battlefield control if necessary. Looking at the Archetypes, Lore Warden and Martial Master Stood out to me.

Lore Warden gives passive buffs to CMB/CMD as well as gives a mid-level ability to boost to hit and damage rolls, avoid critical hits and automatically confirm critical hits. Lore Wardens also make all INT skills class skill and give two additional skill points for spending in those skills per level. This seemed like an obvious choice for what I was looking to do. The trade off was that the PC would lose Armor Training and Armor Proficiency, as well as Bravery, which I don't care for.

Martial Master looked like a good add as well. The sacrifice of trading Weapons Training for Martial Mastery was a bit of a tough choice, but it opens up a lot of versatility and after researching, there were ways to get back most of the bonuses for Weapon Training. So, with Martial Master, I could truly focus on something along the lines of the Standard Critical Hit build, but with buying just a few 'initiator' feats, the PC could be flexible in battle. Not only that, but he could literally 'switch on' a feat for an Improved Combat Maneuver, without really sacrificing damage output - to an extent.

I stuck with this decision for a while, until I read another build post on the message boards that mentioned Variant Multiclassing Bard. Bardic Knowledge and Lore Master synergize with Scholastic, buffing the Lore Warden's Know Thy Enemy/Swift Lore ability and Bardic Performance and Additional Performances help cover the gap of missing out on Weapon Training from taking the Martial Master archetype, and also can be used with any weapon. Versatile Performance is just icing on the cake, allowing me to train Performance (Oratory) to gain Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks as a 2 more skills at level 11, while building up a performance skill for other feats. Yes, you lose out on 5 feats, but I think the trade off is fairly powerful.

The PC is a little bit more MAD than a standard fighter, but its not something completely unworkable. With the groundwork set, I had a pretty good idea of what to do.

For this campaign, we were given the choice of a Standard Point Buy or roll 4d6 x 6, drop the lowest rolls. I chose to roll and got the following scores: 16, 14, 12, 13, 10, 13. I played on the odds we'd likely get better scores rolling, than standard buy and what I rolled was a bit better than what I could've done point-buy.

Looking at the whole picture, it appeared as if the Lore Warden leaned more toward a Finesse Fighter build if you wanted to fight on the front lines, considering the removal of Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency. I looked a couple of option for strength, which would give the PC Overrun, Bullrush and Grapple viability, but having low AC just isn't what I was looking for in a Fighter. Also, Hair's Breath would require a decent Acrobatics check, which was Dexterity based skill and made difficult using Heavy Armor.

So, Dexterity it was. Now the tricky part was creating a Damage Dealer, using Dexterity and taking advantage of the eventually Capstone ability provided by Lore Warden. Looking at the weapons, the Elven Curve Blade provided exactly what I was looking for: Crit Range like the Falchion, Two-Handed and Finessable. Not only that, but it had a bonus to CMD, which stacked with Lore Warden - the sword was basically calling for me to create a build around it.

So, there it was - a Dexerity Based Fighter, designed around hitting almost as hard as a Strength based fighter, but gaining versatility in Combat Maneuvers as well as Bardic Performances and the ability to adopt feats on the fly. And it all has synergy!

Character Generation:
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Race: Human, 'Adopted' Elf
Class: Fighter (Lore Warden/Martial Master, Bard VMC)
Traits: Armor Expert, Defender of the Society

Ability Scores:
STR: 14
DEX: 18
CON: 12
INT: 13
WIS: 10
CHA: 13

Very MAD and a little sub-optimal on CON, but I can always grab a Favored Class bonus to HP if needed.

HP: 11
AC: 18 (Studded Leather w/ bonus from Defender of the Society)

Using Light Armor with Defender of the Society and Armor Expert, Studded Leather gives MORE AC than Scale Mail and on Par AC to Chainmail, which are the two best armors that likely can be bought at level one without the 'Rich Parents' trait. And, there is no penalty to movement, nor any Armor Check Penalty due to Armor Expert.

At later levels, the goal would be to use a Mithral Breastplate, which gives 12 AC and no Armor Check Penalty using Defender of the Society, Armor Expert and a 20 Dexterity ability score. That's on par with Full Plate, with no Armor Check Bonus and significantly cheaper if the Full Plate is Mithral.

Defense: check.

Now the issue is Attack/Damage. To shore this up, taking the 'Adopted: Elf' Racial Trait at Character Generation is a must. The reason is for a feat that I would have to take anyway: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Curve Blade). But, taking the Racial Trait also gives a free language, so it's preferable in this particular build to get a two-for one.

Two-Handed Fighter Base: check.

Feat/Ability Progression through Level 16:
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Level 1: Weapon Finesse, Additional Traits (Indomitable Faith, Carefully Hidden), Scholastic
Level 2: Combat Expertise, Power Attack
Level 3: Bardic Knowledge, Maneuver Mastery
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Elven Curve Blade), +1 DEX
Level 5: Dodge, Martial Flexibility
Level 6: Combat Reflexes
Level 7: Bardic Performance, Know thy Enemy
Level 8: Greater Weapon Focus (Elven Curve Blade), +1 DEX
Level 9: Critical Focus, Martial Flexibility 2
Level 10: Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade)
Level 11: Versatile Performance, Hair's Breath
Level 12: Critical Versatility, +1 Dex
Level 13: Staggering Critical
Level 14: Critical Mastery, Swift Lore, Martial Flexibility 3
Level 15: Greater Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade)
Level 16: Surge of Success, re-train Staggering Critical to Blinding Critical, +1 Dex

*Note* I realize that it would be better to take 'Additional Traits' feat later on in the build and get Power Attack at level one. But my GM prefers us taking traits at level 1.

So my thought process here is get Weapon Finesse as early as possible, allowing me to use the Elven Curve Blade like a Falchion. Additional traits gives me a better version of Iron Will with Indomitable Faith and Carefully Hidden. Combined, they give +2 to Will Saves and an additional +2 against divination. Unfortunately, Power Attack has to wait until level 2, but in game, I think this will be okay.

Level 2 provides Combat Expertise for free, which just opens up the Feat Chains at level 5.

At this point my goal is to grab Weapon Focus, along with the setup feats needed for 'Wombo-Combos' (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2refn?Brawler-vs-Lore-WardenMartial-Master).

By Level 5, I should have 20 AC just using Studded Leather, +10 to attack and 1d10+6 to damage without Power Attack. But at this level, Martial Flexibility opens up. Need to Sunder, Trip or Disarm? Flip on and 'Improved' feat as a move action, pesky cast using a 5'step, turn on Step Up first round. Fighting something with Slashing DR? Weapon Versatility fixes that. The PC now becomes a versatile combat, while still focused on damage.

By Level 6, you have all the 'Initiator' Feats to start up a 'Wombo-Combo' with Dexterity and can focus on amplifying damage/critical hits.

Level 7 gives Know Thy Enemy AND Bardic Performance. So, you can use your first Standard Action to either Buff your Party, or take a Knowledge check to scan an enemy for weakness, gaining +2 attack/+2 damage. Or you could two both in the first round getting +3/+3 for yourself and +1/+1 for the rest of the party in two rounds if necessary. Your first round can also see a move action use Martial Flexibility to grab a combat feat if necessary.

After this, Feats are focused improving critical hits until at least level 16.

Combat Strategy:
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What the goal will be in a combat scenario is to use the first round or two to asses the situation - Buff Self using Know thy Enemy, or Buff Party using Inspire Courage, or both. And also, thinking through if a specific combat tactic would be applicable to a given combat scenario.

After the first round, I would move tactically and attempt to gain a full attack against a target. If a full attack can't be achieved, then I will attempt a combat maneuver buffed by being a Lore Warden and possibility a Martial Master combat feat. The goal would be controlling the battle and still doing functional damage to the target. I would be aiming to get in for a full-attack or try to utilize Attacks of Opportunity with Combat Reflexes to deal out some solid damage.

For enemies who aren't really affect by combat maneuvers, I have the ability to assess their weaknesses, apply a combat feat if necessary and go to town dealing out two-hander damage.

So, what do you all think?

Would you change anything up here? Is getting Improved Critical necessary if you have a 'keened' weapon? If so, where would you put it in the progression? Also, any suggestions for feats from level 17-20? I've never played in a campaign over level 16 so I'm somewhat in a blank area there.