Mako42's page

Good idea.

I find it ironic that you did not even mention the Angelic Sorcerer.

Mako42 wrote:

Why would a person choose Angelic (or even Demonic) vs all of the other flavors of Sorcerer?

Because they think it would be fun to roleplay.

There is a point where even the best RP cannot overcome flaw in game mechanics.

And 'fun' is a relative term since what can be fun for one can be boring or even torturous to the another.
The point of this 'playtest' forum is to record issues with game design and offer solutions.
Sadly the game designers have given us little in the way of comprehending what they feel the purpose of a 'divine' Sorcerer is...
In some ways it seems as if they decided that each spell list (Primal, Divine, Arcane, Occult) should have two different bloodlines with little to no thought on what that bloodline's purpose should be.
Again I bring up the 'Cunning Woman' from Frog God's Northlands campaign as a good example of what a healing Sorcerer should be.
Rather than giving them a complete new spell list with many limitations, the Healing spells are instead are converted to Arcane.
No higher powers, religions or anything else that a sorcerer would shun are forced upon the bloodline.
It goes back to making the Sorcerer someone who "You didn’t choose to become a spellcaster—you were born one."

I want to revisit my original question... What is the purpose of Angelic Sorcerer?
Why would a person choose Angelic (or even Demonic) vs all of the other flavors of Sorcerer?
Why would someone who wanted to heal, choose a Angelic Sorcerer over a Cleric?
Why does a Angelic Sorcerer have to be a 'white mage'; just because you can heal does not mean that you automatically give up all potential to do damage.
I can find no viable benefit of a Angelic Sorcerer over a Cleric, and many benefits that the Cleric has over a Sorcerer.
I once played the Frog God Northlands campaign and the Cunning Woman/Green sorcerer bloodline is far superior to the Angelic Sorcerer.
The Cunning Woman/Green bloodline are Sorcerers (with access to Arcane magic) and their bloodline powers are basically Arcane variants of Divine healing spells.
Limiting a Sorcerer to only Divine magic is basically making a Oracle without the curse and many of the benefits.
As a note: I am not interested in what people did to 'tweak' the Angelic Sorcerer to make them viable, but rather the opening of dialogue into determining where the Angelic Sorcerer fits into the game.

TL:DR - I don't believe Goblins should have +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, +2 Free; I believe that Goblins should have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis, +2 Free. It makes more sense with their biography and common background.

Okay... So hear me out about this: Generation 1 Goblins were all +4 Dex with -2 Cha and -2 Wis. While I understand that these bonuses and penalties needed to be changed for balance, I don't believe they should be completely neglected either. Because of this, I don't believe Charisma should be one of the Goblin's mandatory +2 Stats. Not only that, but there are several things in the Pathfinder 2e Playtest Book which would point to Charisma not being a manditory key stat for the Goblins.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but please allow me to present my arguments based on the information described in their racial biography. I am going to take a few moments to break down what they say a Goblin is and should be, and why Charisma just doesn't make sense.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:

Charisma: This score measures your character’s strength of personality, personal magnetism, and ability to influence the thoughts and moods of others. Charisma is an important statistic for bards and sorcerers, and it grants benefits to clerics and paladins. Charisma also determines your character’s Resonance Points (see page 376).

This is the in-game description of Charisma for Pathfinder 2e. Its safe to say that, when comparing this to the Goblin's biography description, it doesn't make sense why a Goblin would naturally gain +2 Charisma. Key word "Naturally". I don't believe that Charisma should be a Goblin's penalty, but I do believe that it should not be a secondary bonus for them. My arguments are presented below.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:

Even those goblins who break from their destructive past often subtly perpetuate some of the qualities that have been tied to the creatures for millennia.

^THIS^ is one of they key reasons I believe Goblins...

My first impression is that the goblin race's attributes were attributed to the number of MMORPG players who are now playing RPGs and expected cute, cunning and very intelligent goblins. The next thing I expect to see is that these Goblins also have a knack for engineering...

I figure it's mostly thematic, like if sorcerers can get powers from some demon or aberration in their bloodline, they should be able to get powers from some angel in their bloodline. But if having Fey blood gives you primal magic, Aberration blood gives you occult magic, Dragon blood gives you arcane magic, then it's not hard to figure out what Angel blood should give you.

If the angelic sorcerer is weak that's more of a testament to the divine spell list being mediocre when separated from the cleric chassis, than the idea being bad.

The logic behind what types of powers are not an issue but the skill selection is... Just because my great -> great grandfather mated with a celestial does not make me a instant expert on religion. A sorcerers spells are in the blood, not given by a deity. Religion is the last thing that a sorcerer should be learning, after all they have the power without the devotion, worship and anathema to/from a higher power.

One thing that would be nice is for each sorcerer type to have two magic types, though I am not sure how that could be implemented.
Sorcerers don't need to pray, they do not require religion.

I was a little dismayed that one of my favorite classes, the Oracle was removed from the new Pathfinder.
With the advent of the Angelic bloodline the sorcerer now has the ability to heal though the method of that healing is confusing...
One of the key points of both the Sorcerer and the Oracle was that neither knew from where there powers came from. The Sorcerer knew that somewhere in their ancestry there forefather had intimate relations with something not altogether human; like a angel, demon, air elemental, etc...

With the latest update each of the sorcerer bloodlines are neatly configured with not only where they get their powers but also what type of powers they get.

Again, I am going to harp on the Angelic/Demonic bloodline; they are trained in 'religion' when religion does not seem to be a viable trait for a sorcerer.
At present the only viable way to describe a Angelic bloodline Sorcerer is as a weak (less HP, less armor choices, less weapon choices) with limited spells (no channeling without a feat, no ranged offensive cantrips without using a feat), less capable cleric without a Anathema.

I can fix the ranged part with Reach Spell Feat.. What i need is a damaging spell that is not Anathema to a Good Aligned Deity.. (not negative).. I am trying to follow the spirit of the Anathema concept but it is kinda hard when when spell options are missing.

Again, this requires the use of a feat... something no other class (or even bloodline power (Arcane, Primal, Occult) has to deal with.

Even then there is one divine cantrip that does damage (2 if you count damage against undead) while almost all of the other bloodline power types have at least 3 ranged offensive damage cantrips.
Lets be honest, in this new Pathfinder format the cantrip is king; costs no power slot and for a sorcerer is automatically heightened.

I created a Sorcerer and was forced to choose Angelic since nobody in my group wanted to play a healer.
There is one glaring omission in the divine cantrips and that is the lack of any offensive ranged magic in the list.
This limits a sorcerer character to basically standing back and avoid combat while trying to offer some of the limited support that a divine sorcerer can access.
In my case, my sorcerer happened to be a gnome so I was able to use my only ancestry feat to select "first world magic" and thereby get access to primal cantrips which gave me 'ray of frost' so I could be useful against something other than undead.
I would suggest that divine spell casters (especially sorcerers) be given access to some ranged offensive cantrips because it seems wrong that for a character to be viable in a group they have to use a feat.

According to the description of a basic shark, it is a shark that is 10ft long but it is considered a small shark.
A dolphin which is approximately 6ft long is considered medium...
Can anyone explain this?
It should be noted that a 10ft long shark is expected to occupy a 5ftx5ft area.