Maedrethnir's page

If you're concerned about self damage and burn simply remove burn. Have it be taken as normal damage and give it regen for a defensive talent. If power is the concern slap it with a form or modification of fatigue and exhaustion on a threshold. You might also give them something that stops the regen. The reason I picked regen over fast healing is because it sounds like you might be loosing bits and pieces here or there. Also if this comment is off base I apologize I have had time for a full read through this is just based off the most recent comments.

I actually started on a class like this but I stuck with illusions and threw in shadow magic for partial reality. I also used them as a resource for the more combat based ability. I set them up as partially real clones that he can make up to four of and shares action economy with until later levels. For the most part I based the abilities on deception and illusions that could cause harm through the benefit of being partially real. I do most of my work by hand but I'll see if I can find time to post what I have worked up in the next couple days. Although it my take longer as I am currently on a business trip.

I am i big fan of Progeny and Exemplar though i think it simply sounds better to be a 'Aberant Exemplar' than a Progeny.

As a minor aside i would love suggestions on mechanics, themes, and characters people would like to see connected to different bloodlines.

Yes, i decided to go this route to allow for a distinct feel to each heritage

I think my main issue with the pool points was that it is really a chore to get it to feel distinct from spell casting. That is simply my opinion though. That may work better for your approach given that you are going for a single class that encompasses all of the bloodlines.

As far as numbers you can look up the Shadow Lord Here. The other 2 i have yet to type out most of it is in a notebook i carry around with me (since i work a lot its convenient).

As for my methods they vary; sometimes i find a mechanic i like and look for a theme sometimes its reversed but for the most part i try my best to give it a distinct feel. While i do like to give choices i want all of them to invoke the feeling that inspired the class, for the Shadow Lord i was inspired by the White-haired Witch archetype so i built a class around it and the mechanic seemed to suit the alien nature found in the Plane of Shadows so I went that route, for the Illusion one i wanted to focus on deception(mainly the feeling of being 1 step ahead at all times), and for the Fey one i am going a feel similar to how Kurama fights particularly during the Dark Tournament (give them tools and toys and if they think it out they can get through any situation).

I am a big fan of this idea (i should be considering that i am working on toward this goal albeit from a different angle). I love the idea of magical but not necessarily caster typed classes, so what i decided to do was make a class that could result from a more lineage embracing sorcerer however i do it for each bloodline individually.

To date i have three roughed out one of which i am testing (a semi-villain in my current campaign) before working on fluff and polish.
I started with the Shadow bloodline turning it into the Shadow Lord class, which turned into a long-range grappler of sorts(its in testing). Next i made an illusion blooded which is a master of disguise, infiltration, and surveillance who makes clones of himself. I made him on a whim because i wanted to see what would happen if a single person could not only impersonate the General who runs the garrison but also the 2 underlings who went with him on that hunting trip. I find having 2 semi-real clones to order around adds credence to your disguise so long as they look the part(he can make them look the part). I based him on the mesmer class from GW2 however most people associate it with Naruto(sadly). The third one i am working on is fey bloodied. I took it from the stance of the first world being pure creation/embodiment of the dream. This one has a small pool of seeds he may "plant" in others to harm or help them which do everything from grow into weapons and armor to hampering them with invasive roots forcing their way into muscle fibers and organs. This one was actually inspired by Kurama from YU YU Hakusho. I plan on finishing out the bloodline list which will take a while, but i love bouncing ideas off people an would gladly lend assistance to you in your pursuit of a similar goal.

In relation to your post: 2 of my 3 followed the d8 hit dice 3/4 bab progression and all lean heavily on charisma though that may change as i move forward. As far as a pool goes i almost always try to build around the concept of a pool of points but i always run into some issue or another that makes me change my mind.(The exception being the Fey blooded but he doesn't spend points so much as temporarily looses them.)

Well I'm not sure this will help but you could call the performance mechanic, if you plan on having one, hymns. Another idea, and this one is mostly dependent on the feel that you're looking for in this class, you could go with the idea of a choir or in some cases a chanting mob and allow for the tune callers party members to help him maintain his performance for free up to a cap. It could also lead to some inter-party conflict from members of opposed religions.

Just a thought

I am interested to see where this goes.
One of the classes I am planning on working on is a Legalistic Magic user I think seeing where you go with the runic magic idea might help me develop that system. In any case I look forward to reading what you come up with good sir.

I recently made a homebrew class (the Shadow Lord found HERE) and i got some helpful advice from some of the people on this board.

I did however notice, or fail to notice if i am mistaken, that there is not a current thread for submitting homebrew classes for peer review so i wanted to start one. I am new to this so i don't dare believe i am qualified so i really come to the community begging that they sustain this thread. Whether you choose to put your homebrew classes here or not i would ask that everyone do their best to help others refine their ideas.

I found that i enjoy attempting to make classes but i wanted to see what the rest of the community came up with.

Remember to be nice.

Bump for more opinions

I suppose that might work.

Does anybody have an idea for a master shadow talent that requires enhanced throw??

Thanks for all your help Ocean. Wasn't expecting the community to be so helpful. I am planning on beginning play testing within the week, but like i said i only started on this a couple days ago so i am expecting major problems in the testing phase particularly with power level.

Although, I do have a couple other projects lined up as well. In particular an Illusionist based on the mesmer class in Guild Wars 2 and a Gravity manipulation class as well. I enjoy making classes its something i've done in every game i have played to an extent although this is the first one i have ever posted.

Thanks again Ocean and thanks for the feedback as well claw. Do you know any specifics of your campaign? I may be able to whip up something specific for you.

I like the general concept - I have dabbled slightly with shadowstuff, and the Kobold Press Shadowsworn Base Class. So this is from a shadow fan.

(It would help if you used some bold or italics to separate ability suite powers from abilities - I could with a little trouble work it out but it was not always clear.)

* Shadow of the Master at 3rd level is essentially a 10 ft aura that bestows a -4 penalty to CMD. Given that many of the abilities rely on trips, grapples, pins etc which sometimes get a bonus I think this is too powerful.

* What kind of damage does the violent shadow do? Is it bludgeoning to begin with? I see there is a Talent later to choose a damage type, but no original, base damage type is mentioned.

* Darkvision - I see this as an iconic ability and as such should be gained at 1st level. I understand perhaps the "growing power/familiarity with shadow" concept but I discount it.

* have you thought of targeting enemies by targeting their shadows? That was really one of my main abilities when working with shadow. Rather than use your shadow to attack the foe, target their shadow (either with your shadow or a spell-like ability) as it is likely defenceless, crush its windpipe and watch as your foe chokes.

* This base class needs a shadow companion, or at the very least an archetype with one.

* Not sure about the balance of the various splittin shadows. Sounds cool, but it may need a playtest.

Generally there are some awesome ability names and you have apparently gathered some cool mechanics. Hope my feedback helps!!!

Yes it was indeed very helpful and i thank you for your help.

First, I was afraid of the format issues to begin with, as i started using a word document, i will get to work right away cleaning up the post for readability.

As for the power level on Shadow of the Master I could change it to scale starting at a -1 penalty and moving toward the -4 around 12th level increasing at three level intervals.

To be honest about the Darkvision, it is only placed where it is because i didn't want then to get three things at level one. Typing it out is sounds silly but i noticed most classes in Pathfinder only get one or two things max per level. Though as i said it sounds silly now i shall fix it at once.

The damage type on Violent Shadow was an over sight it is intended to be bludgeoning until 11th level.

On attacking the shadow as opposed to the creature itself, I like the idea but solely from a flavor stand point. So i might add it in when i do flavor (barring i don't find any severe mechanical ramifications) but this is just a first pass at the mechanical side. I only started on it a couple days ago, hence why it is so rough.

I threw together this google doc which is a bit easier to read and i made some of the changes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PBawl9cacdlgkS8IfAkfBFUnJy8yVeAkbIvNyCn Y3tk/edit?usp=sharing

Hello anyone willing to give this thread a look. I am new to this community but i have played P&P games for a few years now and recently got into pathfinder. I decided to take a crack at class design recently and what follows is the result. I would enjoy any feedback balance suggestions and criticism but as previously stated i am new to this and it is my first attempt please go easy on me.

I take no credit for the systems/mechanics only for the manner in which they are combined to form this class.

TABLE: SHADOW LORD
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Force of personality, Violent Shadow
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Constrict, Touch of Shadows,
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Shadow of the Master, Shadow Talent
4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Trip, Darkvision
5th +3 +1 +1 +4 Clinging Darkness, +1 CMB with shadow
6th +4 +2 +2 +5 Pull, Shadow Talent
7th +5 +2 +2 +5 Twin Shadow, Grasp of Shadows
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Strangle, Well of Shadows
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Shadow Talent
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Cloud of Shadows, +2 CMB with shadow
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Shifting Shadows
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Shade Triplets, Shadow Talent,
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Piercing Shadows
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Grip of Shades
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Cloud of Shades, Shadow Talent, +3 CMB with shadow
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Black Hole
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Shadow Brood
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Shadow Talent

19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Blind Sense
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Emissary of the Plane of Shadows, +4 CMB with shadow

Force of Personality (Ex)
At 1st level, a Shadow Lord gains the ability to use her Charisma modifier in place of her Strength modifier when making combat maneuver checks with her shadow.

Violent Shadow (Su)
At 1st level, a Shadow Lord gains the ability to extend her shadow and use it as a weapon. This functions as a primary natural attack with a reach of 5 feet. The shadow deals 1d6 points of damage (1d4 for a Small Shadow Lord) plus the Shadow Lord’s Charisma modifier. In addition, whenever the shadow strikes a foe, the Shadow Lord can attempt to grapple that foe with her shadow as a free action* without provoking an attack of opportunity. When a Shadow Lord grapples a foe in this way, she does not gain the grappled condition. (For clarity’s sake, since it is the shadow doing the grappling, the Shadow Lord need not move the grappled creature into an adjacent space. The shadow may not be attacked as a separate person.)

At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, a Shadow Lord’s shadow adds 5 feet to its reach, to a maximum of 30 feet at 20th level. In addition, at 5th level and every five levels thereafter, a Shadow Lord gains a +1 incite bonus to CMB checks made with her shadow.
In addition, a Shadow Lord further improves her ability to control her shadow as she progresses in level, gaining the following abilities:
Constrict (Ex): At 2nd level, when the Shadow Lord’s shadow successfully grapples an opponent or maintains a grapple, it can constrict her victim as a free action*, dealing damage equal to that of its attack. There is no size limit on this ability.

Trip (Ex): At 4th level, a Shadow Lord who successfully strikes a foe with her shadow can attempt a combat maneuver check to trip the creature as a swift action*.

Pull (Ex): At 6th level, a Shadow Lord who successfully strikes a foe with her shadow can attempt a combat maneuver check to pull the creature 5 feet closer to her as a swift action*.

Strangle (Ex): At 8th level, when the Shadow Lord’s shadow is grappling with an opponent, that creature is considered strangled, and cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components.

Touch of Shadows (Su)
At 2nd level, a Shadow Lord gains the ability to pull energy from the Plane of Shadow to damage her foes with a touch. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her Shadow Lord level + her Charisma modifier. As a touch attack, a Shadow Lord can cause 1d6 points of damage for every two Shadow Lord levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Shadow of the Master (Su)
At 3rd level, as a Shadow Lord grows in power her shadow expands and deepens as the power of the Plane of Shadows flows through her. Her shadow encompasses a 10’ radius around her. Any enemy within this area takes a -4 penalty to CMD. This ability functions only while the Shadow Lord remains conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead (While the penalty ends there is still an area of increased darkness around the Shadow Lord when unconscious or dead).

Shadow Talents
At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, a Shadow Lord gains a Shadow Talent. Shadow Talents develop as a Shadow Lord grows in power. They often modify existing Shadow Lord abilities, however some may provide passive bonuses as a Shadow Lord grows closer to the Plane of Shadow. Unless otherwise noted a Shadow Lord may only select a particular talent once. If an ability granted by a talent has a save the DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the Shadow Lord’s level + the Shadow Lord’s Charisma modifier unless otherwise stated. An ability marked with * may not be used with any other ability marked with *.

Shadows within Shadows (Su): A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent may use her shadows granted by Violent Shadow to deliver her Touch of Shadows ability.

Crushing Shadow (Ex): A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent increases the damage dice of her shadows by 1 step. (For example 1d6 increases to 1d8) A Shadow Lord may select this Talent up to four times, however, she may not take this talent a second time until 5th level, a third time until 10th level, or a fourth time until 15th level.

Shadow Step (Su): A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent may, as a standard action, instantly transfer her position to a free square adjacent to a creature one of her shadows is grappling. At 12th level she may use this ability as a move action.

Sickening touch (Ex)*: A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent may attempt to apply the sickened condition to a creature affected by her Touch of Shadows ability for 1 round per Shadow Lord level, fortitude save negates the sickened condition.

Ghostly touch (Ex)*: A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent may attempt to apply the shaken condition to a creature affected by her Touch of Shadows ability for 1 round per Shadow Lord level, will save negates the shaken condition.

Weapon Training: A Shadow Lord that selects this talent gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat.

Binding Shadows (Ex): A Shadow Lord that selects this talent may attempt to tie up a creature he has pinned with his shadows. This ability uses the targets own shadow for the bindings and lasts for 1 round per Shadow Lord level or until the creature breaks free.

Throw (Ex): A Shadow Lord that selects this talent may throw a creature she trips with her shadow. This ability works like the Ki Throw ability.

Shadow of Fear (Ex): When a Shadow Lord with this talent deals damage from constrict the creature must make a will save or become shaken.

Grip of the Master (Ex): A Shadow Lord who selects this talent has the DC to break her grapples increased by +4.

Advanced Shadow Talents
At 9th level a Shadow Lord may select a Talent from the following list whenever she selects a new Shadow Talent.

Engulfing Shadow (Ex): A Shadow Lord who selects this talent may, as a standard action, attempt to engulf a creature she has grappled with her shadow. To succeed, she must a make a grapple check with a -5 penalty against the creatures CMD with a +5 bonus. If she succeeds, until the creature is dead or the grapple is broken, whenever the Shadow Lord maintains this grapple she may choose to have her constrict ability deal 1d4 constitution damage instead of its normal damage. In order to select this talent, the Shadow Lord must have the Grip of the Master talent.

Shades touch (Ex)*: A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent may attempt to apply the nauseated condition to a creature affected by her Touch of Shadows ability for 1 round per three Shadow Lord levels, fortitude save negates the nauseated condition. A Shadow Lord must have the sickening touch talent to select this talent.

Ghastly touch (Ex)*: A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent may attempt to apply the frightened condition to a creature affected by her Touch of Shadows ability for 1 round per two Shadow Lord levels, will save negates the frightened condition. A Shadow Lord must have the Ghostly Touch talent to select this talent.

Brutal Shadows (Ex): A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent may attempt to break the neck of a pinned or helpless target by making an attack roll with a -5 penalty, as a standard action. If successful this a deals 2d6 strength or Dexterity damage to the target if the selected stat reaches zero any remaining damage is dealt to constitution. A creature that is immune to critical hits or that has no discernible head and neck is immune to the effects of this ability. A Shadow Lord must have the Binding Shadows talent to select this talent.

Scarlet Touch (Ex)*: A Shadow Lord who chooses this talent can make recipients of her Touch of Shadows ability bleed for 1 damage per damage dice of the attack. Bleeding creatures take that amount of damage every round at the start of each of their turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. Bleeding damage from this ability does not stack with itself. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess.

Enhanced Throw (Ex): A Shadow Lord that selects this talent may throw a creature she trips with her shadow. This ability works like the Enhanced Ki Throw feat. To take this talent a Shadow Lord must first have the Throw talent.

Crushing Silence (Ex): If a Shadow Lord has this talent creatures she grapples may not make any audible vocalization.

Shadow Door (Su): As a standard action a Shadow Lord may immediately transfer a willing subject to a creature she is grappling. In order to select this talent a Shadow Lord must have the Shadow Step talent.

Master Shadow Talents
At 16th level a Shadow Lord may select a talent from the following list when she selects a new Shadow Talent.

Taken in the Night (Su): A Shadow Lord with this talent may instantly transfer a creature that is grappled by one of her shadows to an unoccupied square that she threatens as a standard action. In order to take this talent a Shadow Lord must first have the Shadow Door talent.

Crush the Windpipe (Ex): A creature grappled by a Shadow Lord with this talent begins to choke. After a creature grappled by the Shadow Lord has been grappled for a number of rounds more than its constitution it begins to suffocate. On the target's next turn, he falls unconscious and is reduced to 0 hit points. One round later, the target drops to –1 hit points and is dying. One round after that, the target dies. Each round, the target can delay that round's effects from occurring by making a successful Fortitude save, but the effect continues until the grapple is broken. In order to take this talent a Shadow Lord must first have the Crushing Silence talent.

Shadow Sickness (Ex): When a Shadow Lord with this talent applies the nauseated condition to a creature she may select a disease. The affected creature must make a fortitude save against the disease or contract the chosen disease. In order to take this talent a Shadow Lord must first have the Shades Touch talent.

Drawn and Quartered (Ex): As a full round action a Shadow Lord with this talent can bring all her force to bear on a single creature. The creature must be grappled by all for shadows the Shadow Lord has. The targeted creature is torn to pieces by the shadows and dies instantly. The creature may immediately make a strength check to pull free of the grapple before it is torn apart, if it succeeds the creature takes 1d8 constitution damage instead. A Creature with more than 120 hit points is unaffected by this ability. In order to take this talent a Shadow Lord must first have the Engulfing Shadows talent and the Brutal Shadows talent.

Shadows in the Blood (Ex): A Shadow Lord with this talent is the ultimate puppeteer with her shadows. As a standard action the Shadow Lord may force her shadows into the body of a creature through its wounds. The Target must be bleeding and must be bound by Binding Shadows. If the target fails a will save against the Shadow Lords grapple check with a -5 penalty the creature becomes the Shadow Lords thrall. While she has a thrall a Shadow Lord may not perform combat maneuvers with her shadows and must maintain this affect as her swift action each round. The creature receives a new save once a day. In order to take this talent a Shadow Lord must first have the Scarlet Shadow talent and the Ghastly Touch talent.

Darkvision (Ex)
At 4th level, a Shadow Lord gains darkvision up to 30 feet. At 9th level, you gain darkvision 60 feet. If you already possess darkvision, its range is increased by these amounts.

Clinging Darkness (Ex)
At 5th level, a Shadow Lord gains the Improved Grapple feat regardless of whether not she qualifies for it.

Twin Shadows (Ex)
At 7th level, a Shadow Lord gains the ability to split her shadow. This allows her to grapple multiple targets so long as she is no more than the reach of her Violent Shadow ability away from any of the creatures grappled. If she moves outside this range the creature or creatures she is too far away from immediately lose the grappled condition.
This ability allows all grapples being performed by her shadows to be maintained simultaneously (i.e. Ellera, a 7th level Shadow Lord has 2 creatures grappled at the beginning of her turn since she has Greater Grapple she may roll to maintain both and perform any actions granted as a result of maintaining a grapple all as a part of her move action). This also allows the different shadows to assist in each other’s grapples, adding a stacking +2 bonus to the CMB to perform or the DC to break a grapple performed in this manner. This bonus increases for each shadow that assists. The decision of how many shadows to use must be made before the grapple attempt is made. Assisting yourself in this manner does not modify the damage dealt by an initial attack, constrict, or any damage caused by an action granted as a result of a grapple however it may increase the DC of any save as a result of such actions (GM discretion).

Grasp of Shadows (Ex)
At 7th level, a Shadow Lord gains the Greater Grapple feat regardless of whether or not she qualifies for this feat.

Well of Shadows (Su)
At 8th level, a Shadow Lord’s Shadow of the Master begins to resemble the bizarre realm from which she draws her power. Her inky aura now makes her form seem to shift and sway like the shadows cast by a guttering candle. She has concealment so long as she is conscious, and the 10’ radius granted by Shadow of the Master is now treated as an area of dim light.

Cloud of Shadows (Su)
At 10th level, a Shadow Lord’s Shadow of the Master feels alien to creatures not of the Plane of Shadows. Any foe entering a Shadow Lord’s Shadow of the Master must make a fortitude save, DC 10 + ½ Shadow Lord level + CHA modifier, or be sickened for 1 round. Creatures immune to the sickened condition are immune to this ability.

Shifting Shadows (Ex)
At 11th level, a Shadow Lord may choose to have her shadow deal bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing damage. This choice must be made prior to the attack roll.

Shade Triplets (Ex)
At 12th level, a Shadow Lord has learned to split her shadow in three allowing her to grapple up to three creatures simultaneously. All restrictions outlined in the Twin Shadows ability still apply.

Piercing Shadows (Ex)
At 13th level, a Shadow Lord’s shadow is treated as a +5 magic weapon for the purposes of overcoming damage resistance.

Grip of Shades (Ex)
At 14th level, a Shadow Lord gains another +2 bonus on grapple checks made with her shadows. This stacks with the Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple feats. She may now maintain grapples as a swift action.

Cloud of Shades (Su)
At 15th level, a Shadow Lord’s Shadow of the Master is nearly indistinguishable from the Plane of Shadows. Any enemy entering it must cope with the shocking change in environment, and must make a fortitude save, DC 10 + ½ Shadow Lord level + CHA modifier, or be nauseated for 1 round. Creatures immune to the nauseated condition are immune to this ability.

Black Hole (Ex)
At 16th level, a Shadow Lord’s Shadow of the Master hungers for the creatures of other planes. Any foe within her Shadow of the Master treats it as difficult terrain. This area is now treated as an area of darkness.

Shadow Brood (Su)
At 17th level, a Shadow Lord has learned to split her shadow in four, allowing her to grapple up to four creatures simultaneously. All restrictions outlined in the Twin Shadows ability still apply.

Blind Sense (Ex)
At 19th level, a Shadow Lord gains Blind Sense up to 30 feet.

Emissary of the Plane of Shadows (Ex)
At 20th level, a Shadow Lord becomes an embodiment of the plane from which her power is drawn. Her Shadow of the Master ability’s radius increases to 20’, and any creature pinned by her shadows inside it must make a fortitude save, DC 15 + ½ Shadow Lord level + CHA modifier, or be immediately pulled into the Plane of Shadows. In addition, the Shadow Lord ceases to age at this point and no longer takes penalties from age. Though she may still gain bonuses from age, she is now immune to age effects. Finally, she draws all sustenance she requires from the Plane of Shadows and no longer needs to eat, drink, or sleep.

If you read the whole thing please comment on it.