Cevah wrote:
The big issue with that is that the other players will not see the complete level of harassment that I am under. This is CONSTANT roadblocks to everything. When the Thieves were off on their own, the DM that I have a problem with had the Thieves go to a village that had a currency that was different colored rocks. Red rocks were actually pretty good currency. So what happened? The Thieves gathered the lowest color currency in massive amounts and then BLED on them. It raised their "profits" by TWENTY TIMES. They walked in with 1,000g each (due to the assassination of the mayor) and walked out with 20,000g. In the same amount of time, a 6 month period passed and the Guards made 2,000g for their guard duty. I currently only have 770g and that hasn't risen since that day. Which was 5 weeks (4 hours of play a week) ago. There really isn't any Craft either (the campaign is suppose to be only a week in game) and that means that I really have been looking for any simple ways to raise my AC and I still have nothing that wouldn't tank my Dex mod like crazy... The other Guards are getting a little bonus everywhere so that they don't get upset while the Thieves' Guild got away with destroying an entire race's economy... If I tank the campaign, at least the others will look for a reason. But yeah, they will be quite upset... Taow wrote:
He (the PC) knows. It is the focus on Darkness. It gives 20% concealment which means no SA... Addem Up wrote:
Yeah, I would, however I still don't even really get spells. I really need more experience before that. It is why I am looking into One-Shots. I think designing a few bosses and simple dungeons may help those problems I have...
DJEternalDarkness wrote: So (after reading most of this thread) why play with them in the first place? There's surely no way that they can be the only game in town. Actually... it is. My campus only has around 5k people. People that are interested in games number around only 200. We are happy that we even have about 20 people interested in D&D. With that, and two DMs total, we can only have so many campaigns running at a time. The better DM is also the one with fewer campaigns because it detracts from his study time.
Tacticslion wrote:
I agree with most that you have said. For the spells, this particular spell is one of the reasons why I feel that it is so strong. His standard act has stolen my potential damage of about 85% of its total until I get that bow back. In the mean time, I can easily see how the game was not designed with PvP in mind at all. As to the other Player, He apparently was Chaotic Neutral when the campaign started and turned Chaotic Evil when he "accidentally" killed my first character. Then he was "driven to kill everyone around him" while he still only killed a random NPC and then fixated on killing my new character. I am just going to focus on getting through the campaign and/or killing everyone in order to make sure that they know I was unhappy. Then I will not play with them again. Unfortunately, that means that I will probably never play again...
Well, as it is, the purpose of the campaign is to gather up 8 artifacts that will allow us to become as powerful as the Big Bad. The DM even went out of his way to make my Artifact suck. Even with that, I still killed the god that possessed the Artifact (which prevent me from getting "Champion" status and some buffs) still bestowed me some power by becoming the next god. If they tick me off too much I will just do a "Taking You With Me" act and "Give" both the power of a god and that Artifact to the Big Bad... By stuffing myself down its throat. The other DM will be there and have to agree due to the "Balance" being in the favor of the Big Bad. Then there will be no real time in the campaign (we leave for CHristmas right afterward...) to be able to resolve without ruining the purpose. "Toxic environment" VS Player with Chip on shoulder and a BIG way to screw everyone... It will irritate them more than they do me. :P
TriOmegaZero wrote:
How is Pilfering Hand not considered really strong? Based on what I read, it is (in this case) a 8 + Cha Mod + d20 in place of just the 6 + Str Mod + d20. It also drags the item to you, regardless of your location as long as you are within 25 + 5-(per 2 Levels) feet from the target. That EASILY beats my AC/CMD. I believe his Charisma is around 18 or 19. That means that he has a 55% chance of beating my CMD and stealing my weapon over my Move speed away from me. The more I learn these spells, the more this system seems broken to me.
Mapleswitch wrote:
I only know a little about different things. As such, I can explain as much as possible, however it will need for someone to research a little to even know what spells there are that are causing these effects. I REALLY do not get/understand spells yet. The biggest concern that I have currently (that is active starting 8PM Eastern time next Wednesday) is the PC stealing my bow. Apparently this was a Ranged-Touch attack to steal using a spell from a distance away from me. It was determined that this was a Combat Maneuver to steal and I have a 22 to that CMD. He should have a CMB of 6 + Strength. He then rolled a "17", or so he said. The end result was apparently a "26" so he should have a Strength of 16 or 17 to give a +3. My CMD was "10 (initial) + 6 (BAB) + 1 (Strength mod from 12 Strength) + 5 (Dex mod from 20 Dex). If this is understood correctly, it should have been "confirmed" due to his roll and CMB being 26 compared to my CMD of 22. If the spell (which I don't have the name of) doesn't work that way, or if there were bonuses that I should have to prevent the steal, I would not know. I am fairly certain that he does not have those feats. If I should have applied bonuses to the CMD, I did not. In addition to this, my character was under the influence of some drug at the time and was in a "High". So that could be something that "affected" me. Regardless, I had just attacked the "idol" in front of me and would realistically react to the steal attempt. As for the speed of the character. I am not sure of anything. It is possible that he has Light armor on. This is not completely accurate due to him having an AC of 19 before any of his spell bonuses. (in comparison, I only have an AC 18 and am the "weakest" at this in the whole group.) He is also still just a "Thief Guild" member and not an Assassin Guild due to the fact that they were paid to kill him. It is more of a "gain money" thing instead of a "hired to kill" thing. The PC has already expressed that he is a zombie of a Naga form. He still has nothing of the race in question due to being a Salarona. All Feat/Racial Abilities/etc... of the origin race are lost. Only the "Physical form of..." apply. (So he has no legs and just a serpent like body... As for the Vision problem, he (the PC) has Darkvision as well as his Thief friend. He is planning on casting "Darkness" and possibly "Deeper Darkness" because he thinks that he and friend would be immune to the "SuperDark" Due to Darkvision. I have not corrected this yet. The bigger issue is that I can only see with Low-Light Vision and He wants Darkness to bring the Light to the lowest (dark). Additionally, with "Darkness" he gains concealment 20% and that will stop my Sneak Attack completely. Even if I am Invisible.
Bodhizen wrote:
There are really only 2 strong DMs at the college that I go to. With that said, we all know each other and "bad blood" will cause A LOT of trouble for everyone. Regardless of that, I am hoping that if I confront that DM, others may say something similar and get that DM to really consider things. Even if I don't play in his campaigns, he is still a good guy otherwise and I think some One-Shot 4 Hour campaigns might teach me the game more too. In such a short event-campaign, I don't think they could get up to too much without making it obvious in their actions and that I can assure you will get the others against them.
Okay, I have changed my name. At this time, I am far too involved now and a majority of the issue has changed to the point I would not need that name any further. As it is, I would like to express my gratitude to everyone for helping me with this issue. Upon seeing the two GMs, I requested some time to speak with them. While only a little was done concerning the player that wants to kill me. As far as it is, that player is not so much an issue to me any further. The Creative DM (and friend to the irritating PC) is now much more aggressive on killing my character. As it is, I have specifically been given multiple weaker buffs and numerous penalties in order to keep me weaker than the rest of the party. He additionally gave a nod to the PC right when I "angered" an NPC and now my bow was stolen from my character by the PC... I now am being attacked by a Large Stone Centaur with three attacks per Full-Round with a "Magical Vorpal Rapier +2". I apparently survived the first attack and was told by the DM that "You will, without doubt, die next time". While I will continue this campaign until the end or my death, I will probably not continue playing under this DM in any further campaigns. I will also confront this DM vocally, however not in the campaign time itself but prior to, next time we will meet. EDIT: I am WELL aware that Rapiers cannot have Vorpal. I am going to use this against the DM at the net meeting.
Cap. Darling wrote:
Bad news is that I actually attacked his friend, and in front of him to boot. Good news is that I didn't kill him. He is the "other" person who would probably kill me. In fact, he (the other PC) is trying to get other (NPC) characters to kill me. I am fine with that because it would just be the game in general anyway (killing anything that attacks us. There seems to be a lot of that). I just asked about this because I don't really understand what limitations I have when fighting against a magic-user that is specializing anti-me. LazarX wrote: The problem isn't PVP. The problem is the entire setup. Two DM's running antagonistic partieswith each DM using different rulesets, that create characters that are not balanced with each other. with one of them allowing totally unbalanced race choices such as Mr. Super UnKillable Zombie. Coupled with the same DM who thinks that "superior rules knowledge" excuses the fact that he has a player with a maturity level of an 12 year old. One of the DMs is actually really good. I just feel that he lacks enough imagination to make a fully original campaign. He is really by the rules while also homebrewing rules that others prefer. Like unlimited standard arrows. I don't need to worry about running out of ammo because of rules like that. With the other DM, I never fully know what I will get penalized on next. He has actually killed characters for too many "bad puns". These puns are deemed "bad" by him and therefore are up to opinion. The race that was made was also made by him and therefore not as balanced as it could be but that is just par for the course. As such of the "Mr. Super UnKillable Zombie", like I said, the player is good on knowledge of the game. In addition to that, there are still flaws. If the character goes to 0 Hp, it is dead. It also takes double damage from fire. Maybe I should look into Alchemist Fire. Is there any way to use multiple of them at a time? Dosgamer wrote:
Probably what I will do. After the Big Bad is dead the campaign is ended and the players are scrapped. If I died I wouldn't care anyway. I just would prefer to kill him instead. :P
Bave wrote:
It is just as such. I actually pulled each DM aside individually and requested their opinion on what I should do because they both really like the role-playing and were actually requesting me to stay in character over allowing the Thief's Guild to escape so often. I AM actually a Guard of the town they were threatening after all... I was actually aiming to avoid PvP at all times as it was... It just ended up like that. I am not "shocked or surprised", I am merely asking for advice on how to neutralize the higher ground that this PC is getting due to having spells. Like I said, I am not really upset to the point that I want to leave or anything. I just want to know what I can do. Abjurer wrote:
I imagine that Fortitude saves work as my group seems to think they do. That the poison/effect is something that would affect their body's reactions and as such. Being dead would grant "immunity" in such a case as his body would not be affected by it. Consider my character. As a Vishkenya, I have a Dex poison and a Sleep Venom. It is not like I am poisoned by my own blood. Therefore I am Immune to those venoms. (And yes, even though it is a "Venom", the feat and my Racial Abilities say that both my saliva and BLOOD carry them and therefore they are more "poisonous" than "venomous".) Regardless, he would be Immune, however would still potentially "carry" those poisons/diseases around. That is his plan, at least in that part. Nox Aeterna wrote:
I managed to make "friends" with at least two... however the one I attacked and the one trying to kill me will "probably" be against me. At the same time, it will probably happen after we kill the Big Bad and at that point it will be a free-for-all. I don't even really care if I die (if it is after the Big Bad), I just want to know the better ways to succeed in this situation. Grimmy wrote:
Quite possibly that is a misleading title for this. I just would not like anyone in the campaign to find this forum and end up complaining to the DMs. The anti-PvP one would probably let it go, the other would probably allow the PC to summon a couple Dragon Liches to attack me or something... As it is, you have all helped greatly already. I now have several ideas on how to proceed. I could actually cripple his character to prevent him from moving easily and that would prevent "Invisibility Purge" from really irritating me for long. "Darkness" will also irritate me but I know know I can use SmokeSticks. Holy Water Arrows may work. And the good old "stay away" is looking great as well!
Thank you all for the answers. I really appreciate the responses, however a lot of the answers (like get up and walk away) are not what I would like to do because I am actually not as worried about him killing me as I should(?) be. As it is, there are only 4 more meetings of the group for this campaign and then the characters are all retired anyway. Bave wrote:
I will explain this out a bit more. I was hoping to avoid releasing a little information due to the thoughts of a lot of D&Ders in general, however I am now convinced that I need to explain fully in order for people to not get confused further. At my college campus, there are a LOT of people who want to play D&D/Pathfinders. Last semester we had a campaign which has approx. 12 characters playing at once. Due to so many people, the DC of the monsters had to be outrageous and battles took forever to the point that people would stop paying attention to the combat. Some of the DM level players had an idea. This semester, two DMs stepped up to try something out. There would be two DMs playing in this single campaign. Each DM would be in control of about 6 people and the groups would act against and with each other through the campaign. One of the DMs was the one who homebrewed the "Zombie". He uses the term "Salarona". This DM is not really worried about PvP and does not care if players OP themselves on stupid things like this. He also trusts the judgement of the problem player due to the player's knowledge of the game being near DM status himself. The other DM is the one who is a bit upset with the PvP. The campaign is designed as having one group as the Thief's Guild and the other is the Guard of the town. They do not make up the entire Guild or Guard, just small pieces. The major focus of the campaign would have a final boss that would want top eat the souls of everyone. Due to the DMs' personalities, I knew that it would be the DM, that is a bit chummy with this player, who would end up setting up the characters for this end-goal. We have already passed the time that the two groups joined together and split again. This time with some Thief's Guild members and Guards in each group. We are both in the same group and also have the DM that doesn't care if there is PvP. The Thief's Guild was seen multiple times in town causing MULTIPLE DEATHS. They were ripping people off with their scams. They burned a NPC to death, (actually this was the problem PC), for the fun of it. They actually went and tried to kill the Mayor. They were bringing PLAGUE ELEMENTS into the town. When I encountered the PC that I ended up attacking, he was still not an ally and that is what "justifies" my attack. I am/was a Lawful-Good Guard that was tasked with bringing them in and that PC was, once-again, fleeing the scene after causing the Guard problems. In fact, he tried to kill a member of the Thief's Guild and then abandoned him to die (by Giant Lobster) in front of me. At this point, as he was an enemy of my group and had committed multiple crimes including DEATH in my city, people who I am suppose to protect, I talked with one of the DMs and they agreed that I was "justified" in attacking. In fact, it becomes more of I was "required" to attack them. Especially as they were fleeing AGAIN. I attacked this PC and the problem player is still attempting to "fix this problem". There is SUPPOSE to be some conflict between the characters. The two groups were enemies to start. It is why I am not upset as most of the people responding seem to be. I don't want to leave the game because it is actually part of the game to have this tension. I just wanted some advice on how to prepare for this PvP. I actually have a lot of Ideas that I will be exploring. I thank all of you for that. I withheld the multiple DMs because I am sure that I am just going to get a lot of posts saying that it doesn't work and that it is stupid. It actually turned out pretty well, aside the players with OOC grudges...
I do appreciate everyone's responses. I will continue to read them, however it is late for me and I really need to get to sleep for work in the morning. As it is, I am not willing to stop playing or to confront on this issue. The main focus for me is the fact that I want to be prepared IF there is an attack against me. As far as it is, there is only 4 more days and I really doubt that I would be unable to continue playing for that period of time. (As it is, I am sort of a Plot character right now and would make the campaign a little difficult if I was to die. I also have two Hero Points saved if something happened.) With that all said, I love the answers given and will continue to watch to learn other possible answers as well. I didn't actually consider crippling him. Would that be possible in order to make him "suffer"?
BigDTBone wrote:
The HomeBrew was all created by the DM prior to the campaign. I actually made one of the zombie characters myself. It just had a bit of a problem with an absolute order and ended up dying the first day. TarkXT wrote: I hate to tell you this but the moment he flat out decided to kill your character he wadded up your work and defficated on it. It's one of the reasons I take such things personal on a player and GM level. Walking away cuts your losses. Staying alive just means he keeps trying and puts you through the nonsense again, and again, and again... There is really only about 4 more days of the school year (that we meet on) and therefore I will not be going through too much nonsense. I just want to complete the campaign and possibly kill him if he attacks me. Other than that, I am quite content where I am. As for the DM on PvP, the DM would prefer that we just focus on the campaign, however in their words: "I just have a feeling that the moment that (the Big Bad) is killed it will turn into a massive PvP." It will not bother me too much, I just want to be prepared for the danger I know is coming... Roan wrote:
The problems end up being that he doesn't need to make ANY Fort saves. He is considered immune. That includes poison and I also believe that he doesn't need sleep at all either. (I know that he can spend over a day underwater, for example). I really feel strong on the "keep distance and just snipe him" idea. I have found that obtaining anything magical is a bit difficult in this campaign. Odraude wrote:
He is immune to that too. He lives on campus. :P
I really don't want to throw out my work on the campaign just because he is being a jerk. In fact, I am still having fun. I just want to get some advice on how to not die because of him. The bigger problem is that as the "zombie" race he gets immunity to my poisons and (so he believes, but I know better) the precision damages of SA and Critical. While he makes that mistake I may be able to hold him off a bit, however the fact that he is undead allows him to do things like give himself diseases that would affect characters he touches with Con damage. He is immune to all Fort saves which makes him such a threat to me. I think in addition to the undead, he is not required to sleep which limits the times that he is "helpless" to almost null...
Odraude wrote: So what are his 'in-game' reasons, since his out-of-game motivation is that he's clearly being a dick? Mostly that I attacked his friend. It was completely agreed by the DM that I had reason to attack him. I am a guard in the town and he and the friend are part of the Thief's Guild. The other ended up irritating me with illegal acts on one day and getting away followed by abandoning his (another) friend to a couple of giant lobsters. It was a long story, but it was a justified attack according to the DM. Morain wrote: you could try to get a potion of darkvision and someone to help you so you flank him. Or just not fight him/run away. He only has a move speed of 20 so I was told to possibly just keep out of range of him while the spell is active. He seeps to have a lot of Touch spells and I really don't know spells well at all so I am a little worried still but that is what I think is the best option so far... @Grimmy, Odraude has it best. He is just being a jerk and that is not going to stop him. Like I said, he is a pretty good player that can break a character (as in make them Over Powered compared to a new player's character) so easily you would think that the character was made out of tissue paper.
Okay, this is a bit difficult to explain, however I will do what I can to explain as much as I can. Please specify anything that you would like to know more of and I will do my best to aid. I am a Vishkanya Ninja. I am currently level 8 and usually use a Shortbow to attack with Sneak Attacks after turning myself invisible with "Invisible Trick". More-or-less, a better player (DM level) has stated out-of-game that he will kill my character and lists reasons why that are not part of the game itself. In fact, all the possible reasons for why he wants to kill me that could be considered in-game have been explained to his character in a way that would prevent his character from wanting to kill me and he doesn't care. He goes on to explain the character that he has (A Homebrew race that is most "zombie" attributes including 0 Constitution [it uses his Charisma mod where needed] and Auto-Succeed all Fort saves), which is trained as an Oracle, has spells that will specifically prevent my character from defeating him and will allow him to kill me. The specifics that he has gloated about include using "Invisibility Purge" to prevent me from escaping and Sneak Attacking him while also using something like "Darkness" to force an area around him to only be able to be seen through by characters with Darkvision (which he has). Basically it is everything to prevent me from being able to hit him. I ask that anyone please say anything that I could do to prevent this. The DM has stated for me to just review the spells as best as I can to make sure that I take every possibility into consideration but I am still not strong when it comes to spells. As it is, if you need more information, I am quite willing to supply it. I would prefer not to post the entire Homebrew Race seeing as how the DM has made it himself and I would not want his ideas stolen completely. Other than asking for the entire homebrew, I am still willing to supply information about the Race. Please just ask any questions that may help explain my situation better. Thank you for any help. |